The incest theme

[R. Richard]

I've often thought that if you take away categories that are not reality based-sci fi. horror, non humn-then incest is the most unrealistic category by nature and the hardest to find a realistic scenario and conflict that the reader could think,. "This could happen"

I've always enjoyed that challenge, but I feel no matter how hard any author works at it, there is still going to be the moment of 'porn absurdity' because in reality, most of this would never happen.

My story, Family Retreat, places a Mother, sister and brother on a remote Pacific island, setting up a communications link. The reason for the exile is that the mother's husband is in a mental institution and will try to kill them, once he manages to get out. With no other outlet, the sister turns to her brother for sexual relief, Over the course of time, the mother is drawn into the sexual games. When
the killer father tries to reach the island, the calm brother deals with him.

Why is the plot absurd?

 

[PervOtaku]

A great deal of porn involves fetishes, which tend to be difficult to do in real life because it's hard to find other people with the same interests. Some fetishes are more extreme, ranging into things that are dangerous or impossible. Things like incest and bestiality are at the edge of this, they are especially forbidden and therefore especially exciting, and most people would never think of doing it for real no matter how much they get off on it in fiction and roleplays.

I'm sure it's true that victims of molestation and rape find their internal views of sexuality twisted from the norm and may only be able to get off on scenarios similar to what happened to them. I would not expect that such people make up the majority of fans of incest and rape fantasy, though. Let's just call it "citation needed".

There's a big difference between molestation and fictional consensual incest. Molestation involves an older person and a child (usually under 15) with the older person exerting their power to get into a sexual situation with the child. Incest fiction almost never does that. Even with an underage character (usually over 15 though), the underage character is frequently the aggressor or an equal participant in the sexual situations that occur. This plays into the fantasy of incest moreso than the reality of it.

Incest is "instant plot" in a way. If you identify two family members the reader can instantly infer their relationship without the author taking any time to describe it, and questions of how the characters met is a moot point. This lets the author skip a lot of the usual set-up and go right to the action. The "conflict" of the incestuous pairing is also inferred, even if the author has the incestuous couple dive right into bed with almost no resistance (though that would be rather sloppy and only really viable for a very short stroke-story).

 

[LucidLucifer]

How is bestiality exciting?

I don't want to associate with anybody who thinks animal fucking is fun to read about.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

How is bestiality exciting?

I don't want to associate with anybody who thinks animal fucking is fun to read about.

eh?

the fuck?

 

[lovecraft68]

How is bestiality exciting?

I don't want to associate with anybody who thinks animal fucking is fun to read about.

To me its an odd kink, but like anything else as long as its going to stay a fantasy in your head and you're not going to molest my dog, then its a case of to each their own.

But like the rape category, the Bestiality crowd has this denial they live in. They claim if its a centaur fucking a woman(or being fucked by a man) then its not really bestiality because Centaurs do not exist.

But in mythology the Centaur is a horse(male or female) and has the sex organs of a horse/mare so it is an animal they are fucking.

They can lie all they want, but if its furry and its fucking and you're stroking to it, you have a bestiality kink.

So of the big three in 'crime kinks' incest/non con/ bestiality....it seems only incest readers can own their kink to any degree.

Its worth noting-and only because I will take shots at the non con readership as often as I can- there is only one true sex crime: Rape

Incest? Go look up the court records on the case of any father/uncle/family member molesting another and look up the charges. Its not incest. Its child abuse/ sexual assault statutory rape it is not "incest" in fact there are very few cases of incest between 18+ consensual adults having ever been tried in the US because...who the hell are they bothering?

Even Bestiality. That's not a crime because its unnatural, its a crime because animals cannot give consent, hence you are committing rape

Its all about consent with sex and the law so guess who really has the true violent crime kink in the erotica world? The only kink where sexual gratification comes from a woman(or on occasions a man) being degraded, hurt, abused, sexually tortured....oh, yeah, its the non con crowd.

And going back to my first sentence, as long as it stays in your head, who cares about rape fantasies? They're harmless unless you try to act one them.

So I don't condemn the kink(okay on a personal level I do, but I also don't believe in censorship so would never say 'it shouldn't be here') I condemn the denial of what gets that crowd hot and that's non consensual pain.

That and its so laughable it seems like something someone would make up to hear the site say they don't want rape stories, but have a non consent section. Maybe they are in denial too(nah, just CYA for the feds)

 

[PervOtaku]

To me its an odd kink, but like anything else as long as its going to stay a fantasy in your head and you're not going to molest my dog, then its a case of to each their own.

But like the rape category, the Bestiality crowd has this denial they live in.

Even Bestiality. That's not a crime because its unnatural, its a crime because animals cannot give consent, hence you are committing rape

The rape fetish lives in a special place where submissive women take the fantasy to the next level and instead of "safe, sane, and consensual" want to read about and/or roleplay being taken, used, and abused against their will. Personally I don't have a strong aptitude for real violence towards women, but in the fantasy realm it sure is fun helping these women feed their fetish. The more the woman character suffers, the more the woman reader/roleplayer gets off on it. It can be kind of a weird tightrope to walk though, plotting out ways to torture a woman can be a little disturbing even when you know you're only going to use it in a fetish scenario.

I've read a couple of bestiality tales just out of idle curiosity, even from that limited sample the commonalities are clear. I don't know how woman-dog relations happens in real life, but in the stories it's kind of a cross between the unreality of the rape fetish and the unreality of the incest fetish. The woman character always wants it bad, almost like she prefers doggie cock to man cock. The fun of reading it is less the horrible, horrible act itself and more in how much she's enjoying it. Most women don't want to fuck their dog any more than they want to fuck their family member, but the presentation is everything. (This is why women in porn movies scream their heads off, and some hookers offer the "porn star experience". Guys like to see and hear a women that seems to be having the most amazing fuck of her life.)

Also, much as incest story children are never victims, the dog is always presented as a willing and eager participant. Get the woman naked and on all fours, and the dog leaps in with gusto. It also seems to be a submissive thing on her part too, because the animal itself is depicted like a rapist, it doesn't know that the woman is consenting or not, it's merely overcome with the breeding instinct (i.e. lust) and takes what it wants. The woman character (and presumably women readers, vicariously) gets off on the taboo, being taken and used, and being so desirable that even non-human creatures want her. (Personally I prefer fantasy creatures for that effect, less squick to it when the unreality of the situation is enforced by the narrative.)

Bestiality stories aren't exactly something I would recommend to anyone, but they are interesting to break down from literary and fetish perspectives.

And I wonder if I just TMI'ed everybody.

 

[Edward Teach]

West coast? I dunno, just saying there are areas where it's more prevalent than others. I don't think there's as much incest going on in say Seattle than there is in some rural backwoods in Georgia.

What ignorance.

 

[lovecraft68]

The rape fetish lives in a special place where submissive women take the fantasy to the next level and instead of "safe, sane, and consensual" want to read about and/or roleplay being taken, used, and abused against their will. Personally I don't have a strong aptitude for real violence towards women, but in the fantasy realm it sure is fun helping these women feed their fetish. The more the woman character suffers, the more the woman reader/roleplayer gets off on it. It can be kind of a weird tightrope to walk though, plotting out ways to torture a woman can be a little disturbing even when you know you're only going to use it in a fetish scenario.

I've read a couple of bestiality tales just out of idle curiosity, even from that limited sample the commonalities are clear. I don't know how woman-dog relations happens in real life, but in the stories it's kind of a cross between the unreality of the rape fetish and the unreality of the incest fetish. The woman character always wants it bad, almost like she prefers doggie cock to man cock. The fun of reading it is less the horrible, horrible act itself and more in how much she's enjoying it. Most women don't want to fuck their dog any more than they want to fuck their family member, but the presentation is everything. (This is why women in porn movies scream their heads off, and some hookers offer the "porn star experience". Guys like to see and hear a women that seems to be having the most amazing fuck of her life.)

Also, much as incest story children are never victims, the dog is always presented as a willing and eager participant. Get the woman naked and on all fours, and the dog leaps in with gusto. It also seems to be a submissive thing on her part too, because the animal itself is depicted like a rapist, it doesn't know that the woman is consenting or not, it's merely overcome with the breeding instinct (i.e. lust) and takes what it wants. The woman character (and presumably women readers, vicariously) gets off on the taboo, being taken and used, and being so desirable that even non-human creatures want her. (Personally I prefer fantasy creatures for that effect, less squick to it when the unreality of the situation is enforced by the narrative.)

Bestiality stories aren't exactly something I would recommend to anyone, but they are interesting to break down from literary and fetish perspectives.

And I wonder if I just TMI'ed everybody.

Here's the thing. There is rape and rapist fantasy.

Yes, many women have rape fantasies and for a variety of reasons including being raised that some sex acts are bad, but of you're being forced to do them? You're off the hook in a way.

But every woman who has those fantasies? Not one of them would ever want to be raped in real life, its a harmless fantasy, dream, role play, masturbation fodder.

But when a man reads and gets off to a rape story? He gets off as the rapist. He gets off on being the one hurting the woman. Now a lot of men even in their rape fantasies have that moment where the woman starts to enjoy it

Why? two reasons. 1- they want to think the woman wanted them all along and they're so good she is now enjoying it. 2- they really deep down don't want to hurt anyone.

But some men? Even in their fantasies they never relent. They want that woman raped, hurt, begging, crying screaming they get off on pain. That is rapist fantasy.

But get them to own that

And this BS about writing stories where the victims 'enjoy' it.

Two points. First and foremost the site may think(or want us to think they think) that it takes the edge off. its not real rape.

Example....story where for two lit pages a woman is brutally gang raped. last couple of paragraphs you find out the 'rapists' were her husband and some friends. It was a role play, it was a scene being read from a book, a dream etc...its the authors way of saying "hey look no one was raped here"

Now from the author's perspective they knew from the first word typed it was not rape.

The reader? Let me ask...what did they jack off to? Rape. What got them hard? The woman begging, being forced. Rape, degradation, pain, "take that you fucking bitch" They aren't jerking off thinking "bet its her husband and she's having a blast.

A reader approached me about paying me to write a sequel to "Sweet reluctance" as the title denotes, it was a reluctance tale, not rape, He offered oney to me for a continuation, but in it the girl was to be raped. No more 'deals' and rewards from the guy just rape. As we conversed, I mentioned the above type of story rape then oh, wait...he said those are "hard on killers" he wants rape.

he is not alone, not by a long shot.

look at it with another category...a woman's husband brings home his sexy boss, after dinner the boss and the husband fuck her, a hot threesome. She then...wakes up next to hubby, with hard nipples, a wet pussy and her heart racing, 'what a dream"

So since it was a dream, there was no group sex right? Please what we read is what we get off to. You read rape it does not matter what it 'turns out to be' you got off on rape

The second reason the site's rule is crap is that showing the woman doing an absurd 360 from "oh please!" to "Oh, yeah, honey, please" is

It tells rapists pigs the woman 'really wants it, see all those pigs really want it"

So in reality its perpetuating of a misogynistic myth makes it even worse.

Then again the 'rule' is pure CYA in case somewhere down the line there is ever n issue, like saying 'we don't allow underage' despite the countless stories of "19" year old characters who talk, act and look like they're 12

Its all a big joke.

But back to the point a woman thinking being raped is a hot fantasy, is different than a man fantasizing about being the rapist. One is a harmless fantasy, one is the desire to hurt and inflict non consensual pain(I say that to exclude consensual bdsm rough stuff) and inflict it upon women because end of the day rape fantasy is

The fantasy of cowards. The fantasy of losers who never got laid. Of angry little men mad the popular girl made fun of him in high school or the 'stuck up bitch' at work won't date him

rape fantasy in men is pure ill will towards women. Their low self esteem, their rejection, their hatred of those'cunts' who never gave it to him

I'll show that whore! Oh, yes you will because heaven forbid that angst be brought to bear on something your size that could whale the shit out of your sad ass.

male rape fantasists are the ultimate in cowards. A slight notch above pedophiles.

Incest fans can defend the kink in erotica form with the 18+ consensual....bestiality fans can do the 'its a mythical creature' end around

rape? You're hung out to dry, there is no defining your kink in any other way, but you want to hurt someone. And as I said here or somewhere else, anyone who can think sexual trafficking is a hot plot bunny? Go ahead and tell the class how you're not into women suffering. Actually don't the lies are far more pathetic than the kink.

 

[Xincestor]

I love Stories about Daddy looking after daughter when mom is gone. Impregnates daughter and daughter breastfeeds daddy's baby and daddy

 

[HandsInTheDark]

The rape fetish lives in a special place where submissive women take the fantasy to the next level ...

I don't have a lot to say to the incest topic, but this post seems to associate submission with rape fantasy and bestiality. On the principle that I must reply when someone on the internet is wrong, I'll note that submissiveness is a desire to YIELD control, not have it forced from them, or offer it to an animal that cannot take it. That's not to say I don't know submissive women who have rape fantasies as well. But I think those fantasies are more prevalent in non-submissive populations. I've known a number of women who had positions of responsibility at work and home, and have told me that their hottest fantasy is to be forced to yield. And I've known submissives who are horrified at men who forcibly take what they want to offer freely.

 

[coochiebarber]

How is bestiality exciting?

I don't want to associate with anybody who thinks animal fucking is fun to read about.

I was on a cam site a few days back and a woman over there offered to have sex with her dog just for few bucks. I was like wtf...

For some it might be exciting, I don't know for real.

 

[Hypoxia]

I was on a cam site a few days back and a woman over there offered to have sex with her dog just for few bucks. I was like wtf...

For some it might be exciting, I don't know for real.

Would sex with a werewolf be ok? We seem to get a lot of that around here.

Various people find all sorts of stuff exciting. Just watch their nipples. Isn't there a Rule about how anything can be turned pornographic / fetishistic ?? And another Rule that for every such fetish there are at least a dozen websites? Bestiality must not be too fringe because there's a long, long history -- unlike, say, a latex fetish. But I have no desire to write of Tijuana donkey shows.

I wonder if the attraction for viewers / readers is less sexual and more WTF? IMHO much of the draw of pr0n and erotica is vicarious identification, that we identify with one of the participants and envisage ourself in the action. I doubt that many watching bestial action would wish themselves in there. I think (hope?) that most are merely amazed that the human would do that. But how many reading gunplay adventures wish they were pulling the trigger?

And that leads back to Incest but also BDSM and other fetishes. How many readers insert themselves into the stories? We know LW readers certainly do. I receive enough comments to my Incest stories to know I've left some dark desires unmet. A guy WILL get anal-ied by his mother-in-law with a strap-on. Which readers wish it was them?

And how many Incest readers wish they WERE screwing mommy, daddy, sis, etc? Do they visualize their own or somebody else's kin? When you read Incest, whose faces do you put on the players?

 

[Handley_Page]

I love Stories about Daddy looking after daughter when mom is gone. Impregnates daughter and daughter breastfeeds daddy's baby and daddy

sick

 

[PervOtaku]

Here's the thing. There is rape and rapist fantasy.

Yes, many women have rape fantasies and for a variety of reasons including being raised that some sex acts are bad, but of you're being forced to do them? You're off the hook in a way.

But every woman who has those fantasies? Not one of them would ever want to be raped in real life, its a harmless fantasy, dream, role play, masturbation fodder.

But when a man reads and gets off to a rape story? He gets off as the rapist. He gets off on being the one hurting the woman. Now a lot of men even in their rape fantasies have that moment where the woman starts to enjoy it

Why? two reasons. 1- they want to think the woman wanted them all along and they're so good she is now enjoying it. 2- they really deep down don't want to hurt anyone.

But some men? Even in their fantasies they never relent. They want that woman raped, hurt, begging, crying screaming they get off on pain. That is rapist fantasy.

Fair enough. Obviously it's a big world, and there are all kinds of people out there. Plenty of guys that are rapists or potential rapists, and the ongoing debate on whether porn helps make them violent towards women or helps relieve their urges and may keep them from being violent towards women.

But for every woman with the rape fantasy, that is, the desire to experience vicarious sexual violence rather than the real thing, there has to be a man to play the other side. Be it in writing a story, or participating in a rape scene over web chat, or even actual in person rough sex with a safeword in place and an acted-out rape scenario. So is this a guy that would really rather rape a woman for real and is merely settling for a fake rape, or does the guy just want to help her play out her fetish, regardless of what it is? Or rather, what percentage of guys doing so are the former and what percentage the latter? There's really no way to know.

Story-wise, the rapist serves as an anti-hero. We cheer for Marvel's Punisher and the criminals that deserve the bullets through the head that he delivers, but we would be horrified at such an ultra-violent vigilante in real life. Except maybe there are some guys out there with an unfulfilled thirst for blood and would love to emulate Punisher given the chance. That's not normal, we hope there isn't and the Punisher comic wasn't written with then as an intended audience, but we cannot eliminate the possibility.

So we also cheer for the fictional rapist and the fictional victim that may or may not have "deserved it", hopefully with a solid grasp on the difference between reality and fiction, and a solid grasp of what sort of sex is proper when actual fleshy bits touching each other is involved. Real-world BDSM is not just giving up power, it is giving it to someone, and not just taking power, but having it given to you. I have to think the dynamic in a fictional rape scenario is something like that too, given that some readers are women and some readers are men.

All these taboos are about going to places that we shouldn't, and wouldn't in real life. We love reading about fathers and daughters fucking, but how many of us, if we had a teenage daughter and she was attempting to seduce us into fully consensual sex with her, would actually go through with it, and how many of us would haul her ass to therapy? But if we had that same teenage daughter merely enjoying the same incest stories and some incest roleplay with other men who are not us, her father, we would likely say "Good for her, she's having fun."

I don't have a lot to say to the incest topic, but this post seems to associate submission with rape fantasy and bestiality. On the principle that I must reply when someone on the internet is wrong, I'll note that submissiveness is a desire to YIELD control, not have it forced from them, or offer it to an animal that cannot take it. That's not to say I don't know submissive women who have rape fantasies as well. But I think those fantasies are more prevalent in non-submissive populations. I've known a number of women who had positions of responsibility at work and home, and have told me that their hottest fantasy is to be forced to yield. And I've known submissives who are horrified at men who forcibly take what they want to offer freely.

This is one of those things where as much as some people will go to great lengths to explain how the nomenclature is extremely well-defined, it's really not, or it is only within a small subculture. Submissiveness, or whatever word you want to use, exists on a wide continuum. Yes, it would be incorrect to equate different points on the continuum with each other, but they are at least tangentially related to each other. Giving up control and having it taken are functionally very different things, but they still have the core similarity of not having the control. Nor are submissive women monolithic, we should completely expect some to want only one point on the continuum, some to want only another point, and some to want multiple points along the continuum.

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't have a lot to say to the incest topic, but this post seems to associate submission with rape fantasy and bestiality. On the principle that I must reply when someone on the internet is wrong, I'll note that submissiveness is a desire to YIELD control, not have it forced from them, or offer it to an animal that cannot take it. That's not to say I don't know submissive women who have rape fantasies as well. But I think those fantasies are more prevalent in non-submissive populations. I've known a number of women who had positions of responsibility at work and home, and have told me that their hottest fantasy is to be forced to yield. And I've known submissives who are horrified at men who forcibly take what they want to offer freely.

Good point debunking yet another rapist fantasy myth and denial. You see this in the BDSM forum, asshole men showing up there thinking, "All the women here are submissive and I can treat them like shit because they love it"

Its hilarious to watch them get their ass handed to them and not just by the female posters, but the men there as well because BDSM unfortunately gets confused with abuse so they especially hate that type of prick.

 

[lovecraft68]

Fair enough. Obviously it's a big world, and there are all kinds of people out there. Plenty of guys that are rapists or potential rapists, and the ongoing debate on whether porn helps make them violent towards women or helps relieve their urges and may keep them from being violent towards women.

But for every woman with the rape fantasy, that is, the desire to experience vicarious sexual violence rather than the real thing, there has to be a man to play the other side. Be it in writing a story, or participating in a rape scene over web chat, or even actual in person rough sex with a safeword in place and an acted-out rape scenario. So is this a guy that would really rather rape a woman for real and is merely settling for a fake rape, or does the guy just want to help her play out her fetish, regardless of what it is? Or rather, what percentage of guys doing so are the former and what percentage the latter? There's really no way to know.

Story-wise, the rapist serves as an anti-hero. We cheer for Marvel's Punisher and the criminals that deserve the bullets through the head that he delivers, but we would be horrified at such an ultra-violent vigilante in real life. Except maybe there are some guys out there with an unfulfilled thirst for blood and would love to emulate Punisher given the chance. That's not normal, we hope there isn't and the Punisher comic wasn't written with then as an intended audience, but we cannot eliminate the possibility.

So we also cheer for the fictional rapist and the fictional victim that may or may not have "deserved it", hopefully with a solid grasp on the difference between reality and fiction, and a solid grasp of what sort of sex is proper when actual fleshy bits touching each other is involved. Real-world BDSM is not just giving up power, it is giving it to someone, and not just taking power, but having it given to you. I have to think the dynamic in a fictional rape scenario is something like that too, given that some readers are women and some readers are men.

All these taboos are about going to places that we shouldn't, and wouldn't in real life. We love reading about fathers and daughters fucking, but how many of us, if we had a teenage daughter and she was attempting to seduce us into fully consensual sex with her, would actually go through with it, and how many of us would haul her ass to therapy? But if we had that same teenage daughter merely enjoying the same incest stories and some incest roleplay with other men who are not us, her father, we would likely say "Good for her, she's having fun."



This is one of those things where as much as some people will go to great lengths to explain how the nomenclature is extremely well-defined, it's really not, or it is only within a small subculture. Submissiveness, or whatever word you want to use, exists on a wide continuum. Yes, it would be incorrect to equate different points on the continuum with each other, but they are at least tangentially related to each other. Giving up control and having it taken are functionally very different things, but they still have the core similarity of not having the control. Nor are submissive women monolithic, we should completely expect some to want only one point on the continuum, some to want only another point, and some to want multiple points along the continuum.

I did start my post with saying there are men whose rape fantasies stop at a safe level, and that extends to role plays, bedroom games etc....again that is rape fantasy

I am talking rapist fantasy which is true non consent and the site's denial they want these stories here coupled with a 'non consent' category and hundreds of flat out brutal rape stories is the hypocrisy I will always point out.

That along with the rapists fantasy types trying to deny what truly turns them on. Ever see the movie the Accused(based on the real life Big Dan's trial) the rapist fantasists wouldn't just eb the ones raping the girl on the pinball machine it would be the dozen of them watching and doing nothing about it.

That case was a big deal because I believe the judge, after throwing the actual rapists in jail, went after the bystanders as well.

The rapists in non con would be the type to stand there and watch. Someone like me if there would get to indulge in my fantasy of beating them bloody. Read my story "Abigail" if you think I'm kidding.