The image of Islam.

[mcfbridge]

Muslims all over the world are complaining about the way they are perceived by the rest of the world. But can anyone do more damage to the image of Islam than the Muslims themselves.

They kill each other and burn things over cartoons.

They blow themselves up in the hope of killing a kid or two at the same time in a shopping mall or restaurant.

Their religious leaders proclaim these murderers as heroes and martyrs.

Perhaps, if you behaved more like the Koran teaches, people would have more respect for you.

 

[cloudy]

Muslims all over the world are complaining about the way they are perceived by the rest of the world. But can anyone do more damage to the image of Islam than the Muslims themselves.

They kill each other and burn things over cartoons.

They blow themselves up in the hope of killing a kid or two at the same time in a shopping mall or restaurant.

Their religious leaders proclaim these murderers as heroes and martyrs.

Perhaps, if you behaved more like the Koran teaches, people would have more respect for you.

Christians all over the world are complaining about the way they are perceived by the rest of the world. But can anyone do more damage to the image of Christianity than the Christians themselves.

They kill each other and burn things over something as simple as race.

They want to teach our children creationist theory instead of science, and believe that AIDS is a judgement called down upon the gay population of the world.

Their religious leaders proclaim people like Pat Robertson and George Bush as heroes.

Perhaps, if you behaved more like the Bible teaches, people would have more respect for you.

 

[sophia jane]

Christians all over the world are complaining about the way they are perceived by the rest of the world. But can anyone do more damage to the image of Christianity than the Christians themselves.

They kill each other and burn things over something as simple as race.

They want to teach our children creationist theory instead of science, and believe that AIDS is a judgement called down upon the gay population of the world.

Their religious leaders proclaim people like Pat Robertson and George Bush as heroes.

Perhaps, if you behaved more like the Bible teaches, people would have more respect for you.

You beat me to it, Cloudy. And your response is much more eloquent than mind would have been.
Every organization, whether religious or political or whatever, deals with the same thing. When people feel so passionately about something, sometimes they go a little crazy in the way they carry out their beliefs.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Christians all over the world are complaining about the way they are perceived by the rest of the world. But can anyone do more damage to the image of Christianity than the Christians themselves.

They kill each other and burn things over something as simple as race.

They want to teach our children creationist theory instead of science, and believe that AIDS is a judgement called down upon the gay population of the world.

Their religious leaders proclaim people like Pat Robertson and George Bush as heroes.

Perhaps, if you behaved more like the Bible teaches, people would have more respect for you.

Point awarded: Cloudy.

 

[togitc]

There is no flawed system. Every system works perfectly. The flaw is in the people who use the system.

 

[elsol]

Well...luckily, I'm Catholic.

And I'm perfectly happy to admit that's I've got my sword, blood-red cross tabard, chainmail and helmet in my closet just waiting for the pope to call me up and say the magic words.

"Let the streets run with blood! Death to the Unbelievers!"

I hope he hasn't lost my number...

Sincerely,
elSol

 

[Miyana Books]

I've got my sword, blood-red cross tabard, chainmail and helmet in my closet just waiting for the pope to call me up and say the magic words.

"Let the streets run with blood! Death to the Unbelievers!"

I hope he hasn't lost my number...

Ah, that takes me back...

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Well...luckily, I'm Catholic.

And I'm perfectly happy to admit that's I've got my sword, blood-red cross tabard, chainmail and helmet in my closet just waiting for the pope to call me up and say the magic words.

"Let the streets run with blood! Death to the Unbelievers!"

I hope he hasn't lost my number...

Sincerely,
elSol

Do you have your "No Rust Teflon Coated Chain Mail" from Ronco? They promise easy cleanup after a day of pillaging, plundering, and defending the faith. 3 easy payments of 39.95...

 

[English Lady]

What it comes down to is that everyone wants respect, but they are much less eager to give it. Maybe if we were as eager to respect others and their faiths, the world would be a better place.

 

[matriarch]

What it comes down to is that everyone wants respect, but they are much less eager to give it. Maybe if we were as eager to respect others and their faiths, the world would be a better place.

Exactly.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The far Christian right nd the far Muslim right both have a vested interest in stirring up the idea of a "Clash of Civilizations" because they want war. Both sides want you to believe that the other side is uncivilized, heretical, and violent, and worthy of being hunted down and killed like animals.

This is a common propaganda technique and very effective. A mullah stirs up his followers hoping to provoke an angry response from the other side, and this response further radicalizes those in the middle and drives them to his side. Finally the entire population is radicalized and you've got your war.

It's the same strategy that's used in guerilla warfare, where the idea's not to beat the entrenched power, but to provoke such a radical response from him that it drives more people to your side.

9/11 was a perfect example. The point of the attack was to goad the US into something as extreme as an attack on Islam, which would then radicalize the Muslim population and made them rise up in Holy War. So far it's worked perfectly.

I think the reaction of the Muslim world to the cartoons has been shocking too, and I have no doubt that there a lot of very angry and murderous Muslims out there. But mosly I see this as manipulation and an attempt to incite a holy war, and as far as we buy into it, we're helping their cause.

BTW, by now we've probably all heard of the bombing of the Golden Dome in Samarra. This is another example of trying to provoke a response that will radicalize the population, and it seems to be working. But in all the excitement, how many of us have heard that both Ali-Sistanni and Moqtada Al-Sadr, local Muslim leaders, have come out urging peace and restraint? Those urging peace never get the PR the ones screaming for war do.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I'm just glad that I'm not either, since it allows me to be more detached and objective. I salute those of you, Christian, Muslim, or Jew, who have that kind of respect for each other's beliefs to which EL alluded. However, I have a particular stake in preventing such a Crusade/jihad. Third parties are liable to get harmed in the process. I am liable to be attacked by BOTH sides if that happens. To Muslims, I am an "infidel", to Christians a "heathen", simply for being pagan. NO, better to let the cooler heads in both faiths prevail and let the countries involved be governed by those with a respect for secular institutions of government, which belong to ALL citizens, not just those of a certain faith.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

This isn't really about how people behave. It's about the perception of how they behave.

Cloudy points out that extremist Christians can be just as monsterous as extremist Muslims. The Christian faith has, however, to a very high degree made sure the perception is that these people are extremists and do not represent the najority of the faithful. Islam has not. So the radical elements have become the face of the religion.

When you sack embassies (Syria, Lebanon), riot in the streets (indonisia), throw old tires around christians and set them on fire (Nigeria) over a cartoon, it's going to make the news. When you elect Haamas, a violent terroist organization to be your government, it makes the news.

The more senseless violent and spectacular your actions, the more "newsworthy" they are. And that is a very large part of the perception.

 

[Tongue lasher]

Christians all over the world are complaining about the way they are perceived by the rest of the world. But can anyone do more damage to the image of Christianity than the Christians themselves.

They kill each other and burn things over something as simple as race.

They want to teach our children creationist theory instead of science, and believe that AIDS is a judgement called down upon the gay population of the world.

Their religious leaders proclaim people like Pat Robertson and George Bush as heroes.

Perhaps, if you behaved more like the Bible teaches, people would have more respect for you.

When Christians 'complain' they generally don't do it violently by burning embassies and issuing death threats. And it's not your 'ordinary' Christian in the street either.
Their strange teachings do not involve how to fly planes into buildings or how to strap bombs on your person so you can go about blowing innocents up.
There are a lot of of double standards in most, if not all, religions. But you can't equate what is done in the name of Islam (today) with what is done in the name of Christianity (today).
Atrocities committed by Bush et al are not done to defend Christianity nor in the name of Christianity. The kind we see committed by Muslims are. That's the difference. We shouldn't 'cloud' the issue.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

When Christians 'complain' they generally don't do it violently by burning embassies and issuing death threats. And it's not your 'ordinary' Christian in the street either.
Their strange teachings do not involve how to fly planes into buildings or how to strap bombs on your person so you can go about blowing innocents up.
There are a lot of of double standards in most, if not all, religions. But you can't equate what is done in the name of Islam (today) with what is done in the name of Christianity (today).
Atrocities committed by Bush et al are not done to defend Christianity nor in the name of Christianity. The kind we see committed by Muslims are. That's the difference. We shouldn't 'cloud' the issue.

Could you please explain where blowing up an abortion clinic or assassinating an abortion doctor, in the name of the Christina faith, is any different from blowing up an embassy or murdering people in the name of the Islamic faith?

If they aren't qualitatively different, then it would seem the extreme of Christianity is just as violent and mindless as the extreme end of Islam, would it not?

 

[R. Richard]

Could you please explain where blowing up an abortion clinic or assassinating an abortion doctor, in the name of the Christina faith, is any different from blowing up an embassy or murdering people in the name of the Islamic faith?

If they aren't qualitatively different, then it would seem the extreme of Christianity is just as violent and mindless as the extreme end of Islam, would it not?

Colly, I must disagree with you. Yes, [possibly] Christian extremists do blow up abortion clinics and/or assassinate abortion doctors. However, they do not blow up churches of other Christian sects. At least in the United States, they do not kidnap and murder people of other Christian sects as an ongoing thing.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Murder is murder, though. It doesn't matter what you blow up. If you blow up buildings with people IN them, you are a terrorist!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Colly, I must disagree with you. Yes, [possibly] Christian extremists do blow up abortion clinics and/or assassinate abortion doctors. However, they do not blow up churches of other Christian sects. At least in the United States, they do not kidnap and murder people of other Christian sects as an ongoing thing.

Yeah. We outgrew that about 400 years ago. During the 1572 St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre in France, over 100,000 Protestants were murdered by the Catholic army and clergy in a week, all in God's name. Still a tough record to beat, especially in the days before WMD's when everyone had to be murdered face to face.

Since Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity, we can expect them to stop murdering each other in about another 200 years.

You have to ask yourself whether they're really killing each other over religion. Are the roots of Islamic terrorism really theological in nature, disagreements about the nature of God? Or is it something else? Like colonialism or political power?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Colly, I must disagree with you. Yes, [possibly] Christian extremists do blow up abortion clinics and/or assassinate abortion doctors. However, they do not blow up churches of other Christian sects. At least in the United States, they do not kidnap and murder people of other Christian sects as an ongoing thing.

Really?

Ever checked out the sites of any of these radical white supremicist movements and militias? You'll find they are grouped loosely under the heading of christian identity groups. They murder each other and people they don't like, blow up buildings, kidnap, extort, commit crimes of all stripes, etc.

Now, you can argue they aren't Christians or that they aren't acting on their christian idetity position. But they are a sect of Christianity and they are, just as violent and brainfucked as the extremes of Islam. the Branch Dividians were a Christian sect, armed to the teeth and willing to kill federal officers.

 

[cloudy]

Colly, I must disagree with you. Yes, [possibly] Christian extremists do blow up abortion clinics and/or assassinate abortion doctors. However, they do not blow up churches of other Christian sects. At least in the United States, they do not kidnap and murder people of other Christian sects as an ongoing thing.

No?

Who, then, burned the church in Alabama years ago just because it was a black church, killing four young girls in the process?

Who's burning them now?

 

[Rope64]

You have to ask yourself whether they're really killing each other over religion. Are the roots of Islamic terrorism really theological in nature, disagreements about the nature of God? Or is it something else? Like colonialism or political power?

The thing about religion is, it's free. You can promise 72 virgins in paradise and no one ever demands a refund. I suspect that, had the Arab and Muslim Worlds enjoyed more political and economic freedom over the last hundred years, they would be much more motivated by healthy "this world" concerns and less easily swayed by otherworldly promises. And, to our great discredit, the Western World has been a best a willing accomplice and more likely the main villain in keeping a boot on the neck of most of the world's Muslims and Arabs.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Cloudy... Colly... have I told you how much I love you two?

 

[cloudy]

Cloudy... Colly... have I told you how much I love you two?

Thanks, babe.

A bigot is a bigot, to me, whether it's race-based, or religion-based.

 

[TheEarl]

Colly, I must disagree with you. Yes, [possibly] Christian extremists do blow up abortion clinics and/or assassinate abortion doctors. However, they do not blow up churches of other Christian sects. At least in the United States, they do not kidnap and murder people of other Christian sects as an ongoing thing.

Any police officer who served in Northern Ireland during the worst of the Troubles might disagree with you there.

The Earl

 

[Tongue lasher]

Could you please explain where blowing up an abortion clinic or assassinating an abortion doctor, in the name of the Christina faith, is any different from blowing up an embassy or murdering people in the name of the Islamic faith?

If they aren't qualitatively different, then it would seem the extreme of Christianity is just as violent and mindless as the extreme end of Islam, would it not?

There is little difference...and that's precisely why I inserted the word 'generally'. I was mindful of the actions of anti-abortionists. But let's have some regard to scale here. The Muslim extremists will happily blow up a bunch of innocent people on a massive scale. The anti-abortionists don't do that.