The "I Accept My Powerlessness to Change the Other Person" thread

[Roxanne Appleby]

Much of the pain we see expressed on these pages and feel in real life* has the same cause: People who are living in a chronically toxic, unacceptable or unsatisfying situation or relationship, expending mountains of energy (mental, emotional and physical) trying to make another person understand/appreciate/realize/feel – fill in the blank. Here's how it often is expressed:

"I can't believe that he/she still does not understand/appreciate/realize/feel (fill in the blank.)"

"What words can I say that will make he/she understand/appreciate/realize/feel (fill in the blank)."

Believe it, and there are no words you can say. If after all this time and energy he/she hasn't come to understand/appreciate/realize/feel it, it's not going to happen. Accepting that you are powerless to change or control the other person is not surrender, it is reality. It does not make you weaker, it makes you stronger. Accepting your powerlessness is the starting point for moving forward to make your life meaningful, fulfilling, satisfying, happy. As you do so it is proper to feel sad about another person's destructive flaws or about giving up a dream you once had. Sadness is also a fact of life, but it won't destroy your life.

I understand that particular circumstances often make this a lot more difficult and complicated that this suggests, and I sympathize. Perhaps those living in a chronically toxic, unacceptable or unsatisfying situation or relationship that can only improve if the other person changes will come here for fellowship. Perhaps others will share stories here of how accepting that they are powerless helped them. I invite others to help me say these things better or with more sympathy, or to say things in their own way.

Edited to add: Implicit in the above is the notion that the other person's inherently dsyfunctional behaviors, attitudes or mental habits are responsible for causing the chronically toxic, unacceptable or unsatisfying situation or relationship. I am not talking about chronic eating of crackers and getting crumbs in the marital bed, but serious dysfunctions like alcholism, emotional abuse, refusal to work or otherwise contribute materially, etc.

Edited again to add: The "inherently dysfunctional behaviors, attitudes or mental habits" refers primarily to moral choices. Mental illness or other handicaps for which a person is not responsible are not necessarily included in this discussion, although they could be - obviously no one is required to sacrifice his or her own happiness for the sake of another adult, if that is what choosing to remain in a relationship means (which it might not). When I say "mental illness or other handicap" I mean it in rigorous, narrow sense – this does not include the alcoholic who makes no sincere, good faith commitment to reform, for example.

Also, these concepts apply to all important relationships, including spouses, significant others, parents, adult siblings, bosses, anyone whose behavior and attitudes have an effect on one's own well being.


* My recent real life example: https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=17924988&postcount=29287

 

[shereads]

Of course you can change people. You just can't predict how they'll change.

 

[rgraham666]

And yet the most common demand in our lives is that we change. Change our clothes, change our hair, change our wants, change our beliefs.

Can you blame us for wanting people to change? It's what we're told constantly. Why should we be the only ones?

 

[lucky-E-leven]

My experience has shown me that even if you do succeed in bringing about a change in someone (a partner or close friend) the chances are that it will not bring you a fraction of the happiness you had imagined. On the flip side to that, finding a place in your own evolution that allows you to fully accept another so completely that the desire to change them never even surfaces ... it's a damn fine place to be. I have all kinds of control freak tendencies, and the older I get and the more I let go of them, the happier a person I become.

~lucky

 

[Zeb_Carter]

For you or I to attempt changing a persons attitude or moral compass is a work in futility. In order to effect the change the person has to want to change. No want, no change no matter how hard you work at it.

Even for a professional, the person must want to change, must want to listen to what the professional has to say and follow the directions and suggestions of the therapist.

Even then, as Shereads said, you don't know how they will change. You may unleash something worse than you started with.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

For you or I to attempt changing a persons attitude or moral compass is a work in futility. In order to effect the change the person has to want to change. No want, no change no matter how hard you work at it.

I agree with this, however, I also believe this is near the root of the problem. In my experience, the desire to change someone typically has little to do with the change itself and more to do with validation that they are worth making the change for. If it boils down to want, and the person needing to make a change doesn't want it badly enough, then it becomes a statement of ... You're not worth it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I agree with this, however, I also believe this is near the root of the problem. In my experience, the desire to change someone typically has little to do with the change itself and more to do with validation that they are worth making the change for. If it boils down to want, and the person needing to make a change doesn't want it badly enough, then it becomes a statement of ... You're not worth it.

This is a true statement but...

If the person means something to you, you will do almost anything to help that person stop the pain and they will always be worth it, even if they don't realize they are in pain or their own self worth. Even if it take you the rest of your life, you will attempt at every opportunity to change, even if only slightly, the way they look at the world and themselves.

For to hold someone in your heart forever no matter what, is a pleasure in itself.

 

[Alessia Brio]

Requiring one's partner to change (a la "If you really loved me, you'd [insert change here].") is not love. It's control.

If change is required, then you're not in love with the person themselves -- but your ideal of that person.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Requiring one's partner to change (a la "If you really loved me, you'd [insert change here].") is not love. It's control.

If change is required, then you're not in love with the person themselves -- but your ideal of that person.

But if you watched them change due to some life alterning event and want to help them get back to their life, would this be a thing of control. Sure we all experience events in our life which change us. But a complete swing around the spectrum is not a healthy change and intervention is required to help the person regain their life compass.

 

[rgraham666]

You're not worth it.

That was the message I always ended up getting.

It took me years to realize that I could never change enough to make others happy with me.

Also took me years to realize that the people demanding I change were starting from the premise 'You're not worth it'. Their demands, constantly changing demands, were simply to validate that premise.

 

[Alessia Brio]

But if you watched them change due to some life alterning event and want to help them get back to their life, would this be a thing of control. Sure we all experience events in our life which change us. But a complete swing around the spectrum is not a healthy change and intervention is required to help the person regain their life compass.

Deciding what someone else's "life compass" is (or should be) is arrogant in the extreme.

I'll reiterate: Love provides a safe harbor for change to take place. Period. The rest is up to the other person.

If it happens, fine. If not, so be it.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

Is it about wanting to change the "person", or the behaviour/ patterns/ situation they find themselves in? And more importantly, what is the reason for wanting that change? If it is for the better of that person, then I am all for being part of the facilitation of that process - at the right moment - in the correct manner.

Yet, I do believe that there is far too much judgement, nonacceptance/ rejection in life. As humans we find it hard to love ourselves and many of us keep putting ourselves down - how much more so when you're continuously measured and judge by those who you consider "safe"?

I have learnt that most things in life take time - especially when it is worth it. And expecting change from another when they're not ready for it is not a space I would like to claim. That does not mean I am not guilty of exactly that at times.

In the perfect world I would like to create that safe haven - where change could take place where/ when it is necessary, and if the other person is ready. Unfortunately that is not always the case, because I am human.

I am very opinionated on this topic, but mostly what I believe does not make much sense to anyone but myself. And I am fine with that.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Deciding what someone else's "life compass" is (or should be) is arrogant in the extreme.

I'll reiterate: Love provides a safe harbor for change to take place. Period. The rest is up to the other person.

If it happens, fine. If not, so be it.

This is true, although arrogance doesn't enter into the process. Love is a deep and sometime painful feeling leaving a person torn between the wanting to accept the change and baring witness to the pain it inflicts. Along with the knowledge that the person in pain wants to change but doesn't recognize the path to the change, therefore it is up to us to help the loved one in pain along the path until the goal is reached. Not forced along the path but guided through the forks in the path.

If the person doesn't want to take the path you are trying to guide them along then it is their decsion and there is nothing you can do until they decide to want to follow the path except provide the love and support you feel for them.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

If it is for the better of that person, then I am all for being part of the facilitation of that process - at the right moment - in the correct manner.

I think this is where many begin a rationalization and justification process. I find it very difficult to 'know' what is best for a person, because I largely believe that when folks are in what I'd consider negative patterns in their life, it often turns out that there is a reason for it. They need to wade through a bunch of crap and make mistakes, etc. We all evolve at different rates and under different levels of duress/success - what have you. I guess I am for facilitating changes when asked, but until it becomes a serious matter of life/death or some other kind of personal harm, I have a hard time assisting unless asked. It is a fine line, no?

Yet, I do believe that there is far too much judgement, nonacceptance/ rejection in life. As humans we find it hard to love ourselves and many of us keep putting ourselves down - how much more so when you're continuously measured and judge by those who you consider "safe"?

I agree wholeheartedly. I also think it's worth noting that once you've been in that position, the damage is only carefully and slowly undone. Safety, once it has morphed into unsafe, then becomes a bit intangible.

And in regards to something Zeb said: I do not agree that if you love someone enough that you are justified in trying to change them. I often believe quite the contrary, in fact, that some of the truest expressions of love have been to not stick out that hand of assistance at certain times even though it is the hardest thing you've ever done.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And in regards to something Zeb said: I do not agree that if you love someone enough that you are justified in trying to change them. I often believe quite the contrary, in fact, that some of the truest expressions of love have been to not stick out that hand of assistance at certain times even though it is the hardest thing you've ever done.

I agree with this statement. It is hard to not do anyting until the person express a wish to change. I was speaking about things after the wish to change was expressed. They have asked for your help, they have cried out for help from you.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

I agree wholeheartedly. I also think it's worth noting that once you've been in that position, the damage is only carefully and slowly undone. Safety, once it has morphed into unsafe, then becomes a bit intangible.

To add to that, I prefer to see the so called "change" as healing, rather than changing from what was to what is/ might be.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

To add to that, I prefer to see the so called "change" as healing, rather than changing from what was to what is/ might be.

I do as well, though I feel my particular role in the healing process ends at creating a true safe harbor and maintaining the promises I've made. Healing, in my experience, is more swift, more powerful, and more permanent when achieved by the will of the person it is intended to help. As hard as it is for me, I have learned to take a more hands off approach. Makes life easier all around. I never have to worry that I'm being too pushy or causing changes that are premature or unneccessary at all, and it's really good for the relationship to earn another's trust and have them approach you when they need you.

I've fallen under the wagon wheel too many times by trying to help too much. As much as the love may exist, it's difficult not to become a crutch sometimes. I find it the most difficult with very close family...where the responsibility of being the oldest sibling and parent figure for my younger siblings is almost choking at times...but the best thing for them, in many cases, is to not jump in with help every time they need it but try to remain close enough to lower a life-line if things get too bad.

 

[matriarch]

My experience has shown me that even if you do succeed in bringing about a change in someone (a partner or close friend) the chances are that it will not bring you a fraction of the happiness you had imagined. On the flip side to that, finding a place in your own evolution that allows you to fully accept another so completely that the desire to change them never even surfaces ... it's a damn fine place to be. I have all kinds of control freak tendencies, and the older I get and the more I let go of them, the happier a person I become.

~lucky

What she said.
I fail to see why, if one has professed to have fallen in love with a person as they are, why you would then want to change them??? It makes no sense.

I too, am a control freak (a bossy old bat is the usual phrase), and I have to work hard to 'let things be as they are'. But the pleasure and enjoyment ...and peace of mind....I obtain from that letting be, makes the struggle worth while.

 

[carsonshepherd]

What she said.
I fail to see why, if one has professed to have fallen in love with a person as they are, why you would then want to change them??? It makes no sense.
.

Ah but people are not always as they appear at first...

Sometimes we think they have changed for the worse, when really, they are just showing who they really were all along, and then we have to deal with that person instead of who we though they were.

But, as I have learned, you can either accept that person as they are or you can't. If you can't, you move on, otherwise you've wasted your energy wanting them to be something they never were and never can be.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I apologize for not being clear:

Implicit in the opening post is the notion that the other person's inherently dsyfunctional behaviors, attitudes or mental habits are responsible for causing the chronically toxic, unacceptable or unsatisfying situation or relationship. I am not talking about chronic eating crackers and getting crumbs in the marital bed, but serious dysfunctions like alcholism, emotional abuse, refusal to work or otherwise contribute materially, etc.

 

[kiwiwolf]

With all due respect, my own take on this is simple. If a situation with a person has come to the stage where you feel you have to change them, then it's time to get out.

Chances are that changes you can bring about in someone are going to be fleeting. Either you or they are going to be unsatisfied with the changes. Change, and/or the process of change can bring about resentment.

Just some scattered thoughts on the subject from someone who has experience... and a faulty keyboard.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

What she said.
I fail to see why, if one has professed to have fallen in love with a person as they are, why you would then want to change them??? It makes no sense.

I too, am a control freak (a bossy old bat is the usual phrase), and I have to work hard to 'let things be as they are'. But the pleasure and enjoyment ...and peace of mind....I obtain from that letting be, makes the struggle worth while.

And I was speaking to the fact that the loved one changed at sometime during the relationship due to some unexpected event that had a drastic effect on them.

 

[carsonshepherd]

With all due respect, my own take on this is simple. If a situation with a person has come to the stage where you feel you have to change them, then it's time to get out.

Chances are that changes you can bring about in someone are going to be fleeting. Either you or they are going to be unsatisfied with the changes. Change, and/or the process of change can bring about resentment.

Just some scattered thoughts on the subject from someone who has experience... and a faulty keyboard.

Totally agree with that statement. It took me years and lots of tears and misery to realize just how true it is, but I won't ever forget that lesson.

 

[Recidiva]

I had so much faith in the power of words when I was younger. I thought if I could just find the right ones...I could change anyone's mind.

But I failed time after time, and it wasn't the words, because the same words could infuriate some and inspire others.

I still try to find the right words to express how I feel, but spend less time on ever expecting someone to change. I seek out the people whose company I enjoy exactly the way they are.

 

[kiwiwolf]

You're a wise man Carson.