The I’m not giving up ‘but’ thread

[Off_base]

These are not equivalent. White listing is based on track record and accessible to anyone willing to publish enough non-problematic stories.

Favoritism is being treated differently in a way that hasn’t been earned.

I feel like I need to post dictionary definitions.

These are not complex concepts.

I'm not sure what you're getting from my comments, but I'm pretty firmly on your side.

 

[iwatchus]

Looking at the title of this thread, I expect it to be a plea for more anal stories by someone who does not proofread well.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Perhaps but by that rationale, you can also say that accusing someone of getting preferential treatment in exchange for sexual favors looks the same as preferential treatment for good behavior since we can't know which, if either, is true. But that doesn't mean that both carry the same connotation.

I apologize, but I only know how to respond to this pedantically.

1
"Accusing someone of preferential treatment in exchange for sexual favors" is a buck wild escalation of this conversation. To my mind this only scans as hyperbole, and I don’t think it's helpful.

2
Accusing someone of receiving preferential treatment in exchange for sexual favors
vs
Receiving preferential treatment for good behavior

These are apples and oranges, because one of them is an accusation from a third party and the other one isn't. They aren't comparable on any level.

 

[StillStunned]

Looking at the title of this thread, I expect it to be a plea for more anal stories by someone who does not proofread well.

That cracked me up!

 

[cw5523729]

I, for one, fully expect the more popular authors to get favoritism. They're a bigger part of what drives readers to the site and keeps them coming back. Than I am.
In the same way that the top salespeople at a company get the highest pay and most perks.
Either way, it feels earned in this case, not given.

I would agree and yet I feel there ISN'T any favoritism OR white-listing. I think it's simply a numbers game. Did @EmilyMiller's story get the green light right away? Sure. But if it had anything to do with a white-list, why would something else that she published not get fast-tracked through the same way? And now say the same about every other popular author on here.

My point above about the # of stories published just today was to suggest that the vast majority of submissions DON'T get lost. So, more prolific authors will, statistically, get a larger # of stories approved. Cuz: math. Likewise, lots and lots of no name authors are also getting stories approved without comment. But, unlike me, the vast majority of those no-name authors simply aren't in here saying that their story get fast tracked. You only hear from the people who are lost in the mix.

 

[EmilyMiller]

They're a bigger part of what drives readers to the site and keeps them coming back. Than I am.

Again I’m being pedantic. But it’s BS to say that I drive readers to the site. My work is appreciated by a relatively narrow slice of the overall readership.

I write in low traffic categories and attract few views.

Someone posting their first story ever in one of the honeypot categories is going to drive many more views than any of my stuff.

White listing is purely that I’ve not broken the rules over an extended period and thus my stories require less scrutinizing. It has nothing to do with my stories getting lots of views. It’s not a reward for making Laurel and Manu money.

I only have a handful of stories around the 50,000 view level. The people who actually drive views have multiple stories at ten times as many views.

I find this ‘them and us’ stuff bewildering and not based in fact.

 

[cw5523729]

"Accusing someone of preferential treatment in exchange for sexual favors" is a buck wild escalation of this conversation. To my mind this only scans as hyperbole

That's probably true because that's how I tend to roll.

 

[cw5523729]

Someone posting their first story ever in one of the honeypot categories is going to drive many more views than any of my stuff.

It's incest - go ahead and say it.

 

[iwatchus]

It's incest - go ahead and say it.

There are a few. LW is the other obvious one. Either will gather 10X the views (or more) that a good story in SF&F or N&N will. (I don't remember which category Emily's novel is in.)

 

[AwkwardMD]

I would agree and yet I feel there ISN'T any favoritism OR white-listing. I think it's simply a numbers game. Did @EmilyMiller's story get the green light right away? Sure. But if it had anything to do with a white-list, why would something else that she published not get fast-tracked through the same way? And now say the same about every other popular author on here.

I think its reasonable to assume, given the wide variety of non-standard problems across every aspect of the site, that some BTS systems are being updated at Lit. Publishing delays are the ones that affect us the most directly, but the timing of all of this seems a strong indicator that they are related.

I first developed my whitelist hypothesis in, like, 2019.

Both things can be true, and neither requires malice.

 

[crookedletter]

As perhaps the one who conflated whitelisting and favoritism, I meant no offense, nor did I mean to accuse anyone of anything. I was just musing on the potential nuance of the situation. Everyone's points regarding the distinction between the two are well taken.

 

[EmilyMiller]

TL-DNR version:

White listing is earned and anyone can achieve this status

Favoritism is unearned and related to some other factor, perhaps one not generally visible to others

I’ve earned my status as an unproblematic writer - put in the same effort and you can get it too. In the meantime, stop blaming your problems with the site on other people, particularly those who have also suffered from the very same problems.

I’m out. Find another random punch bag.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

We should all step back. I do not have evidence, in the hard sense, for the existence of a whitelist. It's a theory, and not one I'm as comfortable endorsing as I do my understanding of Lit's AI detector.

EDIT: Not trying to derail the conversation, just qualifying what I mean when I use the word theory. The existence of a whitelist explains a number of quirks I have noticed, and that's all.

Maybe the word I should have used is hypothesis, but I get those confused.

I tried, really I tried, but teacher mode engaged.

There are two types of theory that you could be talking about. One is strong, like the Theory of Relativity. It has generated a lot of hypotheses, those have been tested, and evidence has been provided suggesting that when you use that Theory to generate hypotheses, they tend to be true. It's got a LOT of backing. Enough evidence, and we start talking about Laws (like the Law of Gravity).

Then we've got the run of the mill theories. These are where someone goes, takes a bunch of existing evidence, and says, "in light of all of these things we already know to be true, it would make sense that ________" where you fill the blank in with an idea, not a testable prediction, just a set of explanatory ideas. So, given all the things we know about the speed of publishing in some cases, the use of algorithms to assist with the handing of so many stories in a single day by two people who can only read so fast, and the definitions of whitelists in general (and the fact that we *know* that similar sites have admitted to using whitelists to help with these sorts of things) it makes sense that this sit (Lit) would also be using a whitelist to help streamline that process.

Then we've got a hypothesis. It's a testable prediction. IF it is true that a whitelist exists on the site, THEN we should be able to do X and get result Y. So for example, IF it is true that a whitelist exists, we should be able to have both Emily and me submit identical stories and Emily should be published first. I am so new, I have no track record. 3 stories and a poem is not enough to decide if I am a generally rule abiding person.

All of that is to say, I think you used the word theory correctly. I just think we need a better word for that first type I mentioned because just giving it a capital T when we talk about it is not nearly enough to distinguish the two.

 

[Off_base]

On a maybe related note, or not. None of the numerous comments I've posted on stories I've read, have been approved since Monday. I'm assuming it's all part of a collection of the things already discussed, but it's new for this week.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I tried, really I tried, but teacher mode engaged.

There are two types of theory that you could be talking about. One is strong, like the Theory of Relativity. It has generated a lot of hypotheses, those have been tested, and evidence has been provided suggesting that when you use that Theory to generate hypotheses, they tend to be true. It's got a LOT of backing. Enough evidence, and we start talking about Laws (like the Law of Gravity).

Then we've got the run of the mill theories. These are where someone goes, takes a bunch of existing evidence, and says, "in light of all of these things we already know to be true, it would make sense that ________" where you fill the blank in with an idea, not a testable prediction, just a set of explanatory ideas. So, given all the things we know about the speed of publishing in some cases, the use of algorithms to assist with the handing of so many stories in a single day by two people who can only read so fast, and the definitions of whitelists in general (and the fact that we *know* that similar sites have admitted to using whitelists to help with these sorts of things) it makes sense that this sit (Lit) would also be using a whitelist to help streamline that process.

Then we've got a hypothesis. It's a testable prediction. IF it is true that a whitelist exists on the site, THEN we should be able to do X and get result Y. So for example, IF it is true that a whitelist exists, we should be able to have both Emily and me submit identical stories and Emily should be published first. I am so new, I have no track record. 3 stories and a poem is not enough to decide if I am a generally rule abiding person.

All of that is to say, I think you used the word theory correctly. I just think we need a better word for that first type I mentioned because just giving it a capital T when we talk about it is not nearly enough to distinguish the two.

Thank you! This was very helpful!

 

[AwkwardMD]

On a maybe related note, or not. None of the numerous comments I've posted on stories I've read, have been approved since Monday. I'm assuming it's all part of a collection of the things already discussed, but it's new for this week.

Comment moderation 100% has a whitelist. This is provable. At the same time, comment moderation this week in particular has been slow. It makes some sense that it's all related.

 

[onehitwanda]

I wonder if some of the fuckery we're seeing with regards to stories, comments and stats is due to the implementation of an actual "in-code" white and blacklist system to try to make managing the AI firehose a bit easier on Laurel (and whatever minions she might have)

the above is a tentative hypothesis, if we're being rigorous.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I wonder if some of the fuckery we're seeing with regards to stories, comments and stats is due to the implementation of an actual "in-code" white and blacklist system to try to make managing the AI firehose a bit easier on Laurel (and whatever minions she might have)

the above is a tentative hypothesis, if we're being rigorous.

At least this, if not more.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

I wonder if some of the fuckery we're seeing with regards to stories, comments and stats is due to the implementation of an actual "in-code" white and blacklist system to try to make managing the AI firehose a bit easier on Laurel (and whatever minions she might have)

the above is a tentative hypothesis, if we're being rigorous.

I can speak from experience when I say - managing a MANUAL whitelist is a MAJOR pain in the ass.

 

[onehitwanda]

I can speak from experience when I say - managing a MANUAL whitelist is a MAJOR pain in the ass.

I'm an SRE. My job exists because people are unable to learn from other people's pain.

 

[EmilyMiller]

implementation of an actual "in-code" white and blacklist system to try to make managing the AI firehose a bit easier on Laurel

To clarify, the only whitelist I know of is in Laurel’s head and I’ve had occasions where I have had to jog her memory. I’m not suggesting there’s an automated whitelitst with members persisted to a table.

 

[onehitwanda]

To clarify, the only whitelist I know of is in Laurel’s head and I’ve had occasions where I have had to jog her memory. I’m not suggesting there’s an automated whitelitst with members persisted to a table.

Yeah, but I'm wondering whether part of the changes in the last month have been the implementation of an actual physical 'whitelist', and that some new and exciting bugs were introduced which are contributing to the black hole of pending stories.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yeah, but I'm wondering whether part of the changes in the last month have been the implementation of an actual physical 'whitelist', and that some new and exciting bugs were introduced which are contributing to the black hole of pending stories.

It’s not inconsistent with the observed issues. Then there could be other explanations.

 

[Dark_Logan_]

If favouritism/whitelisting/bribery exists then explain why 2 out of 5 of my recent stories pass in 48 hours while the rest remain in purgatory

Purgatory, Publish, Purgatory, Purgatory, Publish being the Pattern

I used to receive rejections when I first started, but don’t think I’ve received 1 for circa 90+ submissions is that enough to curry favour or not?

Or is it just a nonsense concept started by **** flingers?

All of my upcoming submissions follow a chronology so that’s why I’m backing away as I cannot afford the hit and miss of the above publishing run rate.
I cannot trust the process and therefore the service Lit is presently offering.

Akin to arguing over who sprays the hose whilst your house burns down please do continue to squabble amongst yourselves while the actual crux of the problem remains unaddressed.

 

[onehitwanda]

Akin to arguing over who sprays the hose whilst your house burns down please do continue to squabble amongst yourselves while the actual crux of the problem remains unaddressed.

What would you like us to do? I mean, I can put up a shrine to Yog-Sothoth and ask him to intervene, but I'm not sure the outcome is what you would want it to be.

I cannot trust the process and therefore the service Lit is presently offering.

Lit is not a service provider. Lit is a post-it board at the local 7-11 where you can stick up something and hope it gets read.