The Government Outrage Of The Day

[Zeb_Carter]

Today's outrage comes to us courtesy of the federal government. In particular, the Medicare program. Our conservative Republican President George W. Bush expanded that program by what will wind up costing a trillion dollars. It was called the prescription drug benefit for Medicare.

But anyway, today we're just talking about $50 million dollars. Think about how much money that is. Now imagine taking $50 million dollars and throwing it down a rathole....or setting it on fire. Running it through the paper shredder. Blowing it at the race track. But that's just what "The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services " did.

You see, these brilliant folks sent out 231,000 checks for $215 each to Medicare recipients to reimburse them for their prescription drug coverage. I'm not going to bore you with how it happened....but it was a mistake. Those 231,000 people weren't supposed to get the 215 bucks. So now the government wants it back.

Doesn't sound like much, does it? But a $215 mistake 231,000 times comes to fifty million dollars. Money the government will never see again, most likely. After all, if you get a check from the feds, you spend it, right? Just remember: this is what we have to look forward to if we ever wind up with socialized medicine in this country. You think your HMO is bad? Just wait.

 

[gauchecritic]

Yeah, let the fuckers who can't afford it just die, save everybody squillions of dollars.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yeah, let the fuckers who can't afford it just die, save everybody squillions of dollars.

Die from what, and can't afford what? So you would just give away your money to everyone? Oh, wait is was a mistake, I need it back.

 

[TheGreatRaja]

welcome to the 21st century, here's your pills

 

[Oblimo]

Inefficiency sucks. But it happens as much in the private sector as it does in the public. Other than the the operation goals of the organization (the goal of a private company is to turn a profit; the goal of a governmental organization is to improve the quality of life of its citizenry with as little negative impact as possible) there is nothing unique about public sector inefficiency other than our ability, as members of the public, to try and do something about it.

Of course, "efficiency" is not the same thing as "lean" just as Medicare reform should not be the same thing as cutting medicare funding.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Inefficiency sucks. But it happens as much in the private sector as it does in the public. Other than the the operation goals of the organization (the goal of a private company is to turn a profit; the goal of a governmental organization is to improve the quality of life of its citizenry with as little negative impact as possible) there is nothing unique about public sector inefficiency other than our ability, as members of the public, to try and do something about it.

Of course, "efficiency" is not the same thing as "lean" just as Medicare reform should not be the same thing as cutting medicare funding.

Although I agree with you in theory that governments were formed to improve the lives of their citizen, lately the politicians believe goverment is there for them to make the citizens dependant on them (the politicians).

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Yeah, let the fuckers who can't afford it just die, save everybody squillions of dollars.

I'm now in love with the word "squillions"...

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=Zeb_Carter]Although I agree with you in theory that governments were formed to improve the lives of their citizen, lately the politicians believe goverment is there for them to make the citizens dependant on them (the politicians).[/QUOTE]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Poor Zeb Carter steps in it again.

First off, Zeb, the word 'dependant' is not in the dictionary.

I am surprised that Gauche did not point that out.

Secondly, that 'theory' that "...governments were formed to improve the lives of their citizens", is a crock.

Our form of government was instituted to protect and preserve the 'inherent' rights and liberties of the people, not to 'improve" their lives, we can do that by ourselves, thank you very much.

Those of we few who advocate human individual liberty have been fighting the Federalists and the Democrats since day one to restrict and limit just how much they should be allowed to 'improve' out lives.

Leave us the hell alone! Is the best improvement government can make.

'Socialized Medicine' or 'National Healthcare' is also a crock. Any plan forced on a people by law, enforced by the police powers of the state and funded by extortion of money from the unwilling...any such plan has no place in a free society. None!

amicus...

 

[Pure]

but it might be a helluva good plan, as in Norway, France, Germany, Italy and the other slave states of W. Europe!

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=Pure]but it might be a helluva good plan, as in Norway, France, Germany, Italy and the other slave states of W. Europe![/QUOTE]

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ah, Pure, but you forgot, (In the words of Ayn Rand) "The graveyard that was the Soviet Union.

It took seventy-five long and torturous years for the obscenity that was the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic to finally rot away.

If the 'peoples republics' of the EU follow suit, then they too will cause untold suffering and waste the lives of millions.

When one uses force to accomplish one's desires, be it for the 'greater good' or greed, it will eventually come back to bite you.

amikus....

 

[Liar]

Doesn't sound like much, does it? But a $215 mistake 231,000 times comes to fifty million dollars. Money the government will never see again, most likely. After all, if you get a check from the feds, you spend it, right? Just remember: this is what we have to look forward to if we ever wind up with socialized medicine in this country. You think your HMO is bad? Just wait.

What does this incident have to do with the ups and downs of socialized medicine? It was an administrative fuckup. Coulda happened in any branch. And probably does.

I'm all for discussinc medicaid and it's European counterparts, but I don't see the connection. This was buerocracy boo-boo that just happen to happen in the social sector. Correlation is Not Causation.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

What does this incident have to do with the ups and downs of socialized medicine? It was an administrative fuckup. Coulda happened in any branch. And probably does.

I'm all for discussinc medicaid and it's European counterparts, but I don't see the connection. This was buerocracy boo-boo that just happen to happen in the social sector. Correlation is Not Causation.

I didn't post this to discuss socialized medicine, although gauchecritic took it that way along with a few others. I was mearly pointing out a government screw-up. A $50 million screw-up. That's all.

 

[wazhazhe]

This was buerocracy boo-boo that just happen to happen in the social sector. Correlation is Not Causation.

Excellent point.

 

[amicus]

I didn't post this to discuss socialized medicine, although gauchecritic took it that way along with a few others. I was mearly pointing out a government screw-up. A $50 million screw-up. That's all.

What the hell then do you consider medicare and medicade if not socialized medicine? They robbed every paycheck I got for over 30 years and then still bill you for medical care....and in typical government fashion are arrogant and supercilious to boot!

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Inefficiency sucks. But it happens as much in the private sector as it does in the public. Other than the the operation goals of the organization (the goal of a private company is to turn a profit; the goal of a governmental organization is to improve the quality of life of its citizenry with as little negative impact as possible) there is nothing unique about public sector inefficiency other than our ability, as members of the public, to try and do something about it.

The difference is that in the private sector the market process creates incentives and direct feedback mechanisms that minimize waste. In the public sector that particular incentive is much less sharp, and there are many other competing incentives, so waste goes on and on and gets deeper and deeper. In addition, the typical response to incidents like this is to create additional layers of bureaucracy, so the entire system becomes more sclerotic. An example of consequences of he latter is the inability to even clear the rubble in New Orleans, much less rebuild.

 

[Oblimo]

The difference is that in the private sector the market process creates incentives and direct feedback mechanisms that minimize waste.

Only on the mom-and-pop shop level, where the decision maker also sees the money go in and out.

In the public sector that particular incentive is much less sharp, and there are many other competing incentives, so waste goes on and on and gets deeper and deeper. In addition, the typical response to incidents like this is to create additional layers of bureaucracy, so the entire system becomes more sclerotic. An example of consequences of he latter is the inability to even clear the rubble in New Orleans, much less rebuild.

Believe you me, this is in no way unique to the public sector. Ever went to a meeting about the fact that your division was holding too many meetings? And then there was Dell's Committee Committee.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Only on the mom-and-pop shop level, where the decision maker also sees the money go in and out.

Hey - in a competitive environment, if you are more wasteful that the competition you lose money and go out of business. Every employee, manager and owner knows it. How much more direct a feedback mechanism do you want? Sure, it may act through more layers and be less direct the larger the organization, but those that survive figure out ways to keep the process vital. Example: In Toyota the process is vital; in GM it's been weak for a long time. Toyota's been cleaning GMs clock for a long time, too.

Believe you me, this is in no way unique to the public sector. Ever went to a meeting about the fact that your division was holding too many meetings? And then there was Dell's Committee Committee.

See the above. I didn't say waste does not exist in the private sector, I said there are mechanisms that minimize it much more effectively than in the public sector.

 

[gauchecritic]

I didn't post this to discuss socialized medicine, although gauchecritic took it that way along with a few others.

And finished the 'observation' with:

this is what we have to look forward to if we ever wind up with socialized medicine in this country.

All I ask for is consistency.


(Which MiAmico is ruining for me by implying he reads my posts in threads that he doesn't subscribe to)

 

[Oblimo]

Secondly, that 'theory' that "...governments were formed to improve the lives of their citizens", is a crock.

You're parsing my statement in a way that puzzles me. I said "the goal of a government is to improve the quality of life of its citizens." Although I make mistakes, I chose my words with care.

Our form of government was instituted to protect and preserve the 'inherent' rights and liberties of the people, not to 'improve" their lives, we can do that by ourselves, thank you very much.

I do not understand how you are using the word "improve," here, because "improvement of the quality of life" to me includes things like, oh, say, the establishing of justice, insuring domestic tranquility, provision for common defense, promotion of general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

Also, you might want to reread the Preamble to the US Constitution sometime.

Those of we few who advocate human individual liberty

Oh. You're a bleeding heart libertarian martyr who's never read On Liberty. You should have said. Troll on.

 

[amicus]

Oblimo]You're parsing my statement in a way that puzzles me. I said "the goal of a government is to improve the quality of life of its citizens." Although I make mistakes, I chose my words with care.



I do not understand how you are using the word "improve," here, because "improvement of the quality of life" to me includes things like, oh, say, the establishing of justice, insuring domestic tranquility, provision for common defense, promotion of general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

Also, you might want to reread the Preamble to the US Constitution sometime.


Oh. You're a bleeding heart libertarian martyr who's never read On Liberty. You should have said. Troll on.

[/I]


Who is this 'mid-south' peasant lecturing me? helluva way to make an introduction, I thought I was replying to Severus Max...

nevermind...

 

[Oblimo]

Hey - in a competitive environment, if you are more wasteful that the competition you lose money and go out of business.

No, you don't, unless there is a regulatory agency for trust-busting. Unregulated, competitive evironments create incentives to collude, and collusion promotes waste like mad. Thus the Oil Baron oligarchs of turn of the 20th Century US and turn of the 21st Century Russia.

Example: In Toyota the process is vital; in GM it's been weak for a long time. Toyota's been cleaning GMs clock for a long time, too.

GM's problem is that it needs to make cars people want to buy, rather asking the Republicans for yet another bail out in corporate welfare initiatives.

I didn't say waste does not exist in the private sector, I said there are mechanisms that minimize it much more effectively than in the public sector.

I understand, I just disagree (although there are many who would disagree with me of course), because efficiency is not the same thing as efficacy, and there are ways to promote/retard both in the public and private sectors. I don't mean to imply that there isn't waste or that reform isn't needed. I'm just saying: competition is not a panacea for preventing waste because it rewards collusion just as much as it rewards efficiency; gov't and business have different goals, so comparing the two is an apples-to-oranges situation.

 

[Oblimo]

I thought I was replying to Severus Max...

Hey, I can be ten times as wrongheaded as Severus Max!

...

Waitaminute.

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=Oblimo]Hey, I can be ten times as wrongheaded as Severus Max!

...

Waitaminute.[/QUOTE]


Wrongheaded and just wrong....collusion? free enterprise requires regulation?

Sighs...another damned closet liberal.

A reading of the oil exploration, drilling, pumping, transportation, refining and distribution era might be enlightening to you.

It could only have happened in a 'free enterprise' environment without government control or regulation or oil/petroleum products would still be used as kerosene to replace whale oil.

Did Standard Oil make a lot of money? Did Bill Gates/Microsoft make a lot of money? Did they step on tender toes? You bet your southern ass they did.

Good for them!!!


amicus...

 

[Oblimo]

Wrongheaded and just wrong....collusion?

Yes. It's a noun. It's what happens in imperfect competitive markets, and perfect competitive markets don't exist, because they require perfect information and zero transaction costs.

free enterprise requires regulation?

Please define your terms.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

[/I]


Who is this 'mid-south' peasant lecturing me? helluva way to make an introduction, I thought I was replying to Severus Max...

nevermind...

Hey, if I lecture you, you'll know it. My own views on socialism are well known. Only in very limited doses, and preferably run by states rather than the Feds.