The Gospel according to Judas

[rgraham666]

An interesting new archaeological and theological discovery was written up in today's paper.

The description of the universe sounds almost Buddhist according to this Gospel.

As Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating."

 

[oggbashan]

It wasn't written until about 100 years after the original gospels and was rejected by the early church, along with other writings, as being an unlikely and spurious account written to justify a particular heresy.

Og

 

[cloudy]

There's going to be a special on it either on the History Channel, A&E or Discovery (can't remember which) Monday, I think. I'm hoping I'll remember to watch it.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

An interesting new archaeological and theological discovery was written up in today's paper.

The description of the universe sounds almost Buddhist according to this Gospel.

As Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating."

For once, I agree with you. It is fascinating. Frankly, it's not that far removed from the Gospel of Thomas. These are Gnostic ideas, which represent a distinct Christianity from the Pauline and Ebionite forms. It is little wonder that apologists for fundamentalism and orthodoxy make a point of dismissing or downplaying them in some cases, or attacking them in others. The admission that there were many churches is significant. Interestingly enough, Paul even attacks Gnosticism when he refers to "another Gospel, another Christ" in one of his letters. This indicates that there was a Gnostic church as far back as Paul's day.

 

[Aurora Black]

An interesting new archaeological and theological discovery was written up in today's paper.

The description of the universe sounds almost Buddhist according to this Gospel.

As Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating."

This is a little hard to swallow.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

There's going to be a special on it either on the History Channel, A&E or Discovery (can't remember which) Monday, I think. I'm hoping I'll remember to watch it.

You're thinking of National Geographic, and, yes, there is going to be a special on it.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Wow!! This is awesome!

I got goosebumps reading it... turns Christianity right on its head, doesn't it?

This is particularly interesting:

"That this world was not created by the one true God, but by a lesser, evil divinity as a place to entrap divine spirits.

"The idea of this gospel is that humans have a divine spirit trapped within them that needed to escape their bodies and Jesus was just here temporarily and he also needed to escape and Judas provided him the way of doing it," said Ehrman."

That this world wasn't created by God? :x wow, there's a concept for any religion to try to get its head around. That we are all divine, trapped spirits... huh... there is something in that... the idea that we are all one, that these physical bodies are but barriers that attempt to separate us...

thanks for that, Rob... totally fascinating stuff!

 

[rgraham666]

This is a little hard to swallow.

And Leviticus and Revelations are easy?

One was written by a serial killer and the other by a propagandist.

It wasn't written until about 100 years after the original gospels and was rejected by the early church, along with other writings, as being an unlikely and spurious account written to justify a particular heresy.

Og

Revelations was also written long after Jesus died. But it's accepted as a true Gospel. Sometimes a little too literally.

 

[rgraham666]

Wow!! This is awesome!

I got goosebumps reading it... turns Christianity right on its head, doesn't it?

This is particularly interesting:

"That this world was not created by the one true God, but by a lesser, evil divinity as a place to entrap divine spirits.

"The idea of this gospel is that humans have a divine spirit trapped within them that needed to escape their bodies and Jesus was just here temporarily and he also needed to escape and Judas provided him the way of doing it," said Ehrman."

That this world wasn't created by God? :x wow, there's a concept for any religion to try to get its head around. That we are all divine, trapped spirits... huh... there is something in that... the idea that we are all one, that these physical bodies are but barriers that attempt to separate us...

thanks for that, Rob... totally fascinating stuff!

You're welcome, Selena.

As I said, it reminds me of Buddhism.

 

[Equinoxe]

That this world wasn't created by God? :x wow, there's a concept for any religion to try to get its head around. That we are all divine, trapped spirits... huh... there is something in that... the idea that we are all one, that these physical bodies are but barriers that attempt to separate us...

That's fairly typically Gnostic in idea, that the world was created by the Demiurge, and that human beings are the product of the mixing of a divine essence flowing from the unknowable transcendent God through a series of events revolving around Sophia with the lowly material world created by the lesser deity. Christ is then the redeemer who brings sacred salvific knowledge (gnosis) about the true nature of the universe and humanity. Interestingly, the snake in the Garden of Eden is actually, from a Gnostic perspective, the "good guy" who brings knowledge to Adam and Eve that was hidden from them by the imperfect controlling creator deity.

 

[elsol]

A part of the gospel covers a hole I always thought christianity did not deal with.

Logically, Judas was necessary. While in 'most' cases, I'm all for the free will thing... Judas was absolutely not an accident.

I always thought there might have been a little side conversation where

Jesus: "Dude, I need a favor..."

Judas: "Yeah, boss... whatever..."

Jesus: "You got to turn state's evidence against me."

Judas: "Jesus! No... I can't..."

Jesus: "Judas, I need to be inside to take care of a little unfinished business, Capice."

Judas: "Let Peter do it... he's got a big mouth."

Jesus: "Judas... you're my boy... when I need somebody... you know, taken care of, do I go to Peter?"

Judas: "There's a difference between taking care of some elder who's making a shopping stall of your temple and... I can't do it, boss."

Jesus: "Judas, who is the MAN? The son of big guy?"

Judas: "Ah... don't pull that rank shit... you ain't never done it before?"

Jesus: "Who is the son of the Lord of Lords?"

Judas: "Alright... alright... damn, I hate when you do that shit to me!"


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I read about this. Even Judas gets some spin!

(Keep in mind that I'm agnostic.)

 

[entitled]

National Geographic, Sunday the 9th, at (i think) 8 eastern

 

[TheEarl]

It wasn't written until about 100 years after the original gospels and was rejected by the early church, along with other writings, as being an unlikely and spurious account written to justify a particular heresy.

Og

All of the gospels were written to support a particular heresy. It just so happened that the Trinity version of Christianity beat down the other competitors to become dominant and arrange their version of the New Testament as gospel. Technically speaking you could regard the Trinity NT as having no greater claim to be definitive than that of the Gnostics or other factions.

Rob: Quick bit of pedantry - It's the Gospel of Judas, rather than according to. I agree with you, it is fascinating. Sadly, I can see a whole mess of trouble on the horizon.

The Earl

 

[Pure]

Sounds logical,

the thesis of this gospel (which has been around for a while, i think).

Orthodox Xtianity declares that a) Jesus had to die to save the world from sin-- to offer 'vicarious atonement.' and

B) That was God's plan in 'sending' Him.

In the larger picture, then, assuming Judas existed, Judas' turning JC over to the Romans, the Jewish authorities refusing to oppose and indeed condemning JC as far as possible, and the Romans' crucification of him are all necessary. If God foresaw it, then it's all God ordained.

Pedantic note to The Earl:
The Trinity, in orthodox form, is not explicitly found in the NT (except in a spurious passage in I John). Lots of other central Xtian claims are, of course, such as virgin birth, miracles, resurrection, ascension.

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

I don't honestly think it matters a flying fuck either way. No Catholic (or even some Christians) will accept such heresy (lol) into their religion or beliefs.

While it's nice that it was discovered and all...but sorry, I don't believe it will make a damn bit of difference.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

If I had to guess at the oldest version of Christianity, I would say that the Ebionite/Hebrew one had the best chance. But that is not guaranteed. A large part of me thinks that Jesus was basically Essene in his theology, and so were his followers.

 

[Liar]

This is particularly interesting:

"That this world was not created by the one true God, but by a lesser, evil divinity as a place to entrap divine spirits.

"The idea of this gospel is that humans have a divine spirit trapped within them that needed to escape their bodies and Jesus was just here temporarily and he also needed to escape and Judas provided him the way of doing it," said Ehrman."

That this world wasn't created by God? :x wow, there's a concept for any religion to try to get its head around. That we are all divine, trapped spirits... huh... there is something in that... the idea that we are all one, that these physical bodies are but barriers that attempt to separate us...

Add psychedelia and a crappy sci-fi perspective, and that's Scientology down to a pat.

 

[3113]

Add psychedelia and a crappy sci-fi perspective, and that's Scientology down to a pat.

Hubbard ever was the plagiarist.

 

[3113]

I don't honestly think it matters a flying fuck either way. No Catholic (or even some Christians) will accept such heresy (lol) into their religion or beliefs.

No difference, perhaps to Catholicism--at least, not in the near future. However, when such gnostic texts come to light, and end up in the newspaper and on tv--and books/movies like the Da Vinci code are around to support their views--well, then people do start to convert.

It's rather like when the Pope took that world tour and a lot of folk decided to become Catholic. I predict a lot more gnostics.

Enough to upset the balance in Christianity...probably not. Not unless there's some charismatic leader to really get the church going. But hey, it does mean gnoistism is less in the shadows. It use to be it hardly existed at all, now its becoming trendy.

 

[English Lady]

A part of the gospel covers a hole I always thought christianity did not deal with.

Logically, Judas was necessary. While in 'most' cases, I'm all for the free will thing... Judas was absolutely not an accident.

I always thought there might have been a little side conversation where

Jesus: "Dude, I need a favor..."

Judas: "Yeah, boss... whatever..."

Jesus: "You got to turn state's evidence against me."

Judas: "Jesus! No... I can't..."

Jesus: "Judas, I need to be inside to take care of a little unfinished business, Capice."

Judas: "Let Peter do it... he's got a big mouth."

Jesus: "Judas... you're my boy... when I need somebody... you know, taken care of, do I go to Peter?"

Judas: "There's a difference between taking care of some elder who's making a shopping stall of your temple and... I can't do it, boss."

Jesus: "Judas, who is the MAN? The son of big guy?"

Judas: "Ah... don't pull that rank shit... you ain't never done it before?"

Jesus: "Who is the son of the Lord of Lords?"

Judas: "Alright... alright... damn, I hate when you do that shit to me!"


Sincerely,
ElSol

I adore you Elsol -brilliant, especially the bit about Peter *LOL*

I saw a little bit about this in the metro yesterday and thought it was fascinating. As it says in the article of Robs (thanks for starting this thread btw!) it goes to prove that Christians have always beleived a wide range of things.

I will be interested to read and see more about it, because I've always felt Christianity is often too harsh on Judas. Jesus had to die, someone had to betray him and he did kill himself because of the guilt of it all. I've always wanted to know more about Judas.

 

[matriarch]

I've always been led to believe that Judas betrayed Jesus, because he thought Jesus would then urge his followers to rise up, physically, against the Romans and bring about the revolution so many of them wanted.

He never expected Jesus to be killed.

That's the reason for his mortification, his guilty conscience, and his inevitable suicide.

 

[ishtat]

Alternative truths??

It wasn't written until about 100 years after the original gospels and was rejected by the early church, along with other writings, as being an unlikely and spurious account written to justify a particular heresy.

Og

Not quite right Og. The earliest reference to this gospel of Judas was by Bishop Ireneus about 150 years before this particular Coptic version was written. There are numerous Gnostic gospels of which this is only one. It is true that the early Catholic church actively suppressed and destroyed these gospels where they could but that doesn't mean that the church or the Gnostic factions (and there were many) were either right or wrong.

The Eastern Orthodox churches have never been so hysterically anti Gnosticism as their Roman counterparts and much of the Gnostic "infection" stemmed from the Manichean religion which was more popular than Christianity until the mid to late 3rd century.(Augustine was an early adherent)

My suggestion to anyone who is interested is that they should read Robin Lane- Fox's "Truth and Fiction in the Bible" before swallowing anything hook line and sinker. Lane Fox is a fine scholar who demonstrates very clearly the inconsistencies innaccuracies and wrongness of much of the bible but also ddemonstrates that there is much of great value remaining.

 

[rgraham666]

Lane Fox is a fine scholar who demonstrates very clearly the inconsistencies innaccuracies and wrongness of much of the bible but also ddemonstrates that there is much of great value remaining.

Indeed. "I ask that you love one another as I have loved you" first and foremost among them in my opinion.

On the other hand, me and my neighbours stoning my kids to death if they get out of hand isn't an idea I'll ever get behind. Owning slaves either.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I've always been led to believe that Judas betrayed Jesus, because he thought Jesus would then urge his followers to rise up, physically, against the Romans and bring about the revolution so many of them wanted.

He never expected Jesus to be killed.

That's the reason for his mortification, his guilty conscience, and his inevitable suicide.

Damn, Mat, that's brilliant! A lot of people (including me) have always gotten the impression that Judas, unlike Jesus, was more Zealot than Essene (where Jesus was more Essene than Zealot).