The General Commentary Thread

[butters]

We have three open slots for challenges for the rest of the year. If anyone has an idea for a prompt this would be a great time to volunteer. I know it's a very busy time for many of us, but leading a challenge doesn't take much upkeep. It's not like you're adopting a puppy! I'll pick up one of the slots so that means only two brave souls need step up.

As for 2025 I'll start a Poem-a-Week thread and you're all welcome to join in. If you miss a week (or more) there will be no judgement: only love and understanding! If folks want other challenges, beyond all the ongoing ones, start them. This is an egalitarian kinda place!

sign me up for November

 

[Angeline]

If anyone wants to pick up Challenge B for December post here or pm me. I won't be able to do it. Thanks.

 

[Angeline]

If anyone wants to pick up Challenge B for December post here or pm me. I won't be able to do it. Thanks.

Thanks SpermFactory for volunteering to do the December B challenge!

 

[jacfox]

There once was a man from Crewe
Whose balls were awfully blue
He had a big wank
To empty the tank
And now his ceiling is covered in goo!

 

[GentleFlower]

Thank you very much. That is very sweet of you.

 

[_Land]

Choke the Crown

The sky is blue
because it’s choking.

Every siren
is a scream that got promoted.
Every badge—
a tantrum with funding.

We took to the streets
because no one listened
when we whispered.
Now we bring drums,
we bring screams,
we bring grandmothers in Nikes
who watched MLK get shot
and still have enough spit
to curse the new regime.

The freeway bleeds—
not from traffic
but from truth.
Rubber bullets rain
like God’s failed attempts
at diplomacy.
The cops beat a deaf kid
because silence looked suspicious.

No kings, motherfucker.
No masters.
Just landlords with tanks
and senators shaped like oil spills.

They fence the capitol
but leave the schools hungry.
They wrap a child in zip ties
because her cardboard sign
was spelled too well.
That’s what they fear—
not violence,
but clarity.

We burned flags
because they wouldn’t stop
burning bodies.
We toppled statues
because history
was never meant to be a statue—
it’s meant to be rewritten
with rage,
with red ink,
with the blood of every poet
who refused to pledge allegiance
to a myth.

And still they say
"be civil."
Be civil,
as if we haven’t begged nicely
for 400 fucking years.

So no.
We came to scream.
To paint in broken glass.
To piss on the boot
that’s been kicking our teeth in
and dare it to call us uncivilized.

The chant is not a prayer—
it is war drums
on TikTok.
It is children
learning to aim
with cameras
instead of guns.
It is a funeral
for obedience.

No Kings.
No gods.
Just fire,
and the roar
of a people
who finally stopped asking
to be heard.


42/52

I'm not sure I will ever understand their policies..... They published both my other polital/war pieces ?

 

[Angeline]

I'm not sure I will ever understand their policies..... They published both my other polital/war pieces ?

This is totally my opinion as I have zilch to do with Lit publishing, but I think the site owners are trying to keep Lit from being targeted and shut down. It's one thing for users to express their personal opinions here on the forums, but having them published implies official approval. Yeah I sound paranoid but given the current volatile times it's not unreasonable (at least IMHO) to be concerned about the consequences of pissing off the wrong people in power. One picks one's battles carefully and if it were me, this one is not a hill I'd be willing to die on, y'know?

If not publishing potentially controversial political pieces keeps the site free and available I'm not mad at it.

 

[42BelowsBack]

The acid test: thump a piece of creative writing and see if it rings true?

With any piece of creative writing, I reader want to believe.

Poems by @Tzara never drop the fourth wall: his poems instead provide a sense of reality as backdrop; Tzara sentences are always informed, even his simple words carry on…my once, my only, world.

 

[42BelowsBack]

The chicken or the egg?

What comes first? Is it finding my voice or refining my technique?

In part answer to my own question, I think, discovering ones poetic voice begins with a poems title. Initially I felt a poem’s title should act like a key to unlock a poem’s inner mysteries, especially the slippery through out trickery of my Journeyman’s poems. Sometimes our love of semantic dissolution is too plain clever.

A thought exercise to realign poem and title.

1. Write a single word poem. The title puts in the work.
2. Keep the title, expand the single word into being [a poem].

I think in default consistency will flow from skull [tittle]
in vein [theme] bones [word tones / selections] interconnected through sinewed semantics [the sentences].

Just sharing.

 

[MrMrsMrsMr]

The chicken or the egg?

What comes first? Is it finding my voice or refining my technique?

In part answer to my own question, I think, discovering ones poetic voice begins with a poems title. Initially I felt a poem’s title should act like a key to unlock a poem’s inner mysteries, especially the slippery through out trickery of my Journeyman’s poems. Sometimes our love of semantic dissolution is too plain clever.

A thought exercise to realign poem and title.

1. Write a single word poem. The title puts in the work.
2. Keep the title, expand the single word into being [a poem].

I think in default consistency will flow from skull [tittle]
in vein [theme] bones [word tones / selections] interconnected through sinewed semantics [the sentences].

Just sharing.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts @42BelowsBack. Your words exemplify something said by a friend, a lover and renown poet of the here and now. They shared their personal journey to discovery of their voice began with the insight, “Masters innovate, students reproduce, some walk the well treaded path. Others, discover themselves in the dark.”

I urge you to start your own poetical theory thread. So we can see your thoughts with ease and clarity.

 

[Tzara]

Poems by @Tzara never drop the fourth wall: his poems instead provide a sense of reality as backdrop; Tzara sentences are always informed, even his simple words carry on…my once, my only, world.

I am actually a neural net running on some out-of-date NVIDIA Tensor cores left behind in an abandoned AI lab at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, which may explain my limited grasp of imaginative concepts.

 

[_Land]

So a moment of intrigue..... The use and placement of punctuation

In the following two stanzas the Comma behind the word Carry could also be placed in front of it . Doing so really changes the character...... It also changed the balance with the previous stanza

I'm curious as to which you prefer and why ?



Version 1

She reaches for the knife,
thumb dragging across the handle
slightly sticky from something missed.
She doesn't care.
She chops with too much wrist,
not enough rhythm.

through the open window
sounds and motion carry,
a different beat
creating pause

Version 2


She reaches for the knife,
thumb dragging across the handle
slightly sticky from something missed.
She doesn't care.
She chops with too much wrist,
not enough rhythm.

through the open window
sounds and motion, carry
a different beat
creating pause

 

[SpermFactory]

So a moment of intrigue..... The use and placement of punctuation

In the following two stanzas the Comma behind the word Carry could also be placed in front of it . Doing so really changes the character...... It also changed the balance with the previous stanza

I'm curious as to which you prefer and why ?



Version 1

She reaches for the knife,
thumb dragging across the handle
slightly sticky from something missed.
She doesn't care.
She chops with too much wrist,
not enough rhythm.

through the open window
sounds and motion carry,
a different beat
creating pause

Version 2


She reaches for the knife,
thumb dragging across the handle
slightly sticky from something missed.
She doesn't care.
She chops with too much wrist,
not enough rhythm.

through the open window
sounds and motion, carry
a different beat
creating pause

Semantics apply.

 

[29wordsforsnow]

Just a personal observation: the Illustrated Poetry category seems to have been returned from the dead...

 

[HarryHill]

Just a personal observation: the Illustrated Poetry category seems to have been returned from the dead...

Ash?

 

[42BelowsBack]

@_Land, I am the worst person to comment on this: Just thinking aloud.

If we consider a line as a part of speech i.e. from a grammarian view, the placement of the comma maintains connectivity with the preceding line. And previous stanza. If the comma is placed after motion: The carry over, through the open window is disrupted. Clear connectivity with the knife is lost.

Version one conveys that sound and motion carry. The knife retains its emotional power.

Version 1

She reaches for the knife,
thumb dragging across the handle
slightly sticky from something missed.
She doesn't care.
She chops with too much wrist,
not enough rhythm.

through the open window
sounds and motion carry,
a different beat
creating pause

Version 2


She reaches for the knife,
thumb dragging across the handle
slightly sticky from something missed.
She doesn't care.
She chops with too much wrist,
not enough rhythm.

through the open window
sounds and motion, carry
a different beat
creating pause

Regarding semantics, I think Sf is pointing you to this particular definition of semantics, relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent.

So says Star Wars Conan arrrghwahhharrrr

 

[Angeline]

So a moment of intrigue..... The use and placement of punctuation

In the following two stanzas the Comma behind the word Carry could also be placed in front of it . Doing so really changes the character...... It also changed the balance with the previous stanza

I'm curious as to which you prefer and why ?

...

A few thoughts:

1) In that second strophe "Through" needs to be capped. I know it's just a typo but it threw off my reading.

2) As to your punctuation query I prefer version 1. However in either case I think a comma doesn't really work. In version 1 the sentence that ends with "carry" is the setup for cause/effect, so you need more than a momentary pause. I think a colon would be correct.

Through the open window
sounds and motion carry:
a different beat
creating pause

In version 2 you appear to have two separate ideas: first is a statement that sound and motion are heard/seen through an open window; and second is an imperative to carry a different beat, creating pause. The correct way to separate those would be with a semicolon. But I don't think you intend that. I think the cause/effect relationship makes more sense.

And at least for me I don't see where comma (or colon) placement affects balance between the two strophes, so not a concern.

There is a third option btw to just put a comma after "beat" or even leave it out entirely and let the reader decide whether to pause or not.

Just my opinion.

 

[_Land]

A few thoughts:

1) In that second strophe "Through" needs to be capped. I know it's just a typo but it threw off my reading.

You caught me red handed lol....... From day one i always struggled with properly proofreading my work....... I am always more concerned with wording and effect of word placement. Things like how a comma changed the weight of a sentence.

2) As to your punctuation query I prefer version 1. However in either case I think a comma doesn't really work. In version 1 the sentence that ends with "carry" is the setup for cause/effect, so you need more than a momentary pause. I think a colon would be correct.

Through the open window
sounds and motion carry:
a different beat
creating pause

In version 2 you appear to have two separate ideas: first is a statement that sound and motion are heard/seen through an open window; and second is an imperative to carry a different beat, creating pause. The correct way to separate those would be with a semicolon. But I don't think you intend that. I think the cause/effect relationship makes more sense.

And at least for me I don't see where comma (or colon) placement affects balance between the two strophes, so not a concern.

There is a third option btw to just put a comma after "beat" or even leave it out entirely and let the reader decide whether to pause or not.


Just my opinion.

So these are my thoughts


through the open window
sounds and motion carry,
a different beat
creating pause

The comma after Carry creates a defining element to sound and motion being carried through the open window

through the open window
sounds and motion, carry
a different beat
creating pause

With the comma before the word carry the weight of a different beat is carried by sound and motion

I like the idea of a semi colon..... Although I can't confess to be that intelligent in my writing......

As far as how it changes the aspect of the previous I think that's interesting because the majority of people are probably never going to relate to that this way.

But the intention when writing it is to suddenly change the context of the no rhythm
......

She reaches for the knife,
thumb dragging across the handle
slightly sticky from something missed.
She doesn't care.
She chops with too much wrist,
not enough rhythm.

This stanza is all about going through the motion.

And when we bring in the second stanza

With the pause before the word Carry

through the open window
sounds and motion, carry
a different beat
creating pause

That line is erasing thevgoing through the motions and rhythm of the previous stanza....

And yes I know that's very subtle but it was 100% the intent behind the comma placement.

It's why I felt it mattered and why I thought it would be a great discussion in here.


I don't know that one way or the other is necessarily going to change the world LOL but for myself as a writer I try to look at some of the subtle things sometimes...

Things that change the character aspects that don't necessarily scream in the middle of the poem.

That line choice
Of not enough rhythm was intended as segue.

So now that I'm feeling slightly exposed and my thought process I think it's time for me to go get a colon or semicolon cleanse

But I absolutely love your thought process, and I have no doubt that you are probably 100% much smarter than I am LOL.


I really do think this is a worthy conversation though because something so simple can change a lot of the elements of a poem.

And often times as a writer I forget that that's such a valuable tool.

I focus on the words and imagery and forget that something so simple can change so much context and texture.


_Land

 

[_Land]

So these are my thoughts


through the open window
sounds and motion carry,
a different beat
creating pause

The comma after Carry creates a defining element to sound and motion being carried through the open window

through the open window
sounds and motion, carry
a different beat
creating pause

With the comma before the word carry the weight of a different beat is carried by sound and motion

I like the idea of a semi colon..... Although I can't confess to be that intelligent in my writing......

As far as how it changes the aspect of the previous I think that's interesting because the majority of people are probably never going to relate to that this way.

But the intention when writing it is to suddenly change the context of the no rhythm
......

She reaches for the knife,
thumb dragging across the handle
slightly sticky from something missed.
She doesn't care.
She chops with too much wrist,
not enough rhythm.

This stanza is all about going through the motion.

And when we bring in the second stanza

With the pause before the word Carry

through the open window
sounds and motion, carry
a different beat
creating pause

That line is erasing thevgoing through the motions and rhythm of the previous stanza....

And yes I know that's very subtle but it was 100% the intent behind the comma placement.

It's why I felt it mattered and why I thought it would be a great discussion in here.


I don't know that one way or the other is necessarily going to change the world LOL but for myself as a writer I try to look at some of the subtle things sometimes...

Things that change the character aspects that don't necessarily scream in the middle of the poem.

That line choice
Of not enough rhythm was intended as segue.

So now that I'm feeling slightly exposed and my thought process I think it's time for me to go get a colon or semicolon cleanse

But I absolutely love your thought process, and I have no doubt that you are probably 100% much smarter than I am LOL.


I really do think this is a worthy conversation though because something so simple can change a lot of the elements of a poem.

And often times as a writer I forget that that's such a valuable tool.

I focus on the words and imagery and forget that something so simple can change so much context and texture.


_Land

And hopefully some of that makes sense

 

[Angeline]

And hopefully some of that makes sense

Of course it does.

Now I'm not great at following my own advice and there's plenty of folks waaay smarter than me (and I'm sure y'all know who you are!), but the thing about punctuation is you either need it or you don't. But I also know that commas are tricky. When I was first hired as an editor I asked my mentor whether a certain comma was necessary and she said it depends on what you had for breakfast this morning.

And of course one can argue that all bets are off when it comes to poetry. But I guess the bottom line for me is always how will readers interpret this? Will they get the meaning I intend? With poetry sometimes that doesn't matter. So I guess my old friend you do you.

 

[_Land]

“The Semicolon Speaks”

I held your sentence
together;
stitched two lonely clauses
like an aunt with a wine habit
and a needlepoint hobby.

But you left me.
For a period.
That boring, brittle bitch
who just ends things.

I wasn’t flashy
not an exclamation slut,
not a needy comma
always begging for breath.

I was balance.
Elegance.
The literary mullet:
business on one side,
party on the other.

You said
I was “too much.”
Like nuance was a crime.
Like continuity was clingy.

But go ahead.
Break your thoughts into fragments.
Scatter yourself with ellipses
like lost crumbs
of a brain that couldn’t commit
to completion.

Don’t call me
when your compound sentences
start ghosting you.
Don’t text at 2 a.m.
saying “you up?”
when your em dash
leaves you mid-thought.

I’m not your rebound mark.
I’m not punctuation with benefits.

I am
the semicolon;
resilient.
refined.
emotionally literate.

I don’t interrupt.
I connect.

But sure;
keep using periods
like they won’t hurt you.

 

[_Land]

Of course it does.

Now I'm not great at following my own advice and there's plenty of folks waaay smarter than me (and I'm sure y'all know who you are!), but the thing about punctuation is you either need it or you don't. But I also know that commas are tricky. When I was first hired as an editor I asked my mentor whether a certain comma was necessary and she said it depends on what you had for breakfast this morning.

And of course one can argue that all bets are off when it comes to poetry. But I guess the bottom line for me is always how will readers interpret this? Will they get the meaning I intend? With poetry sometimes that doesn't matter. So I guess my old friend you do you.

I think there's relevance to all of it to be honest I think for the writer The Poetry has a different kind of intimacy.....

It's not always just about the reader and their interpretation although that is always something that is a focal point.

No one else however can experience that moment in time with the same perspective no matter how much we put into our writing or how well we write.

My goal is to try though

 

[Angeline]

John Irving loves the semicolon. I've never seen a modern writer who uses it as well or imho as effectively. It's a sadly maligned punctuation mark. My personal favorite though is the mythical sarcastrophe. I so need that to be accepted in the common vernacular!

 

[_Land]

John Irving loves the semicolon. I've never seen a modern writer who uses it as well or imho as effectively. It's a sadly maligned punctuation mark. My personal favorite though is the mythical sarcastrophe. I so need that to be accepted in the common vernacular!

Can you use that in a sentence !

 

[Angeline]

I think there's relevance to all of it to be honest I think for the writer The Poetry has a different kind of intimacy.....

It's not always just about the reader and their interpretation although that is always something that is a focal point.

No one else however can experience that moment in time with the same perspective no matter how much we put into our writing or how well we write.

My goal is to try though

We'll agree to disagree on that one Land. For me the reader is always my reference point. Otherwise why bother letting anyone else read what I write? But like I said you do you. Poetry is a big tent, plenty of room for differing opinions.