The Filthy Critic

[My Erotic Tale]

I wished to understand why any one would want to be thought of as an 'asshole' or a critic, so I asked... those who know and this was what I learned. I am wanting to learn why people here feel the need to be this way. In hopes of fixing this problem of new poets leaving faster than they arrive. (I was told some want it this way) other than that I have no idea what drives an amature critic.

The Filthy critic said this...

excerpt ; <wallace and gromit ~ the filthy critic> (free to use uncommercially)
Figuring out what's sincere from what's horseshit on a daily basis is like walking through a field in Kosovo. Mistake someone's intentions and it'll blow your fucking arm off. You really have to apply game theory to every interaction you have. You have to estimate the likelihood the person you're talking with is sincere when he says "Nice shoes, asshole."

Does he really mean my shoes are nice? Or does he really mean I'm an asshole. Let's put a 25% likelihood on the shoe part, and a 75% likelihood on the ass part. Being complimented on my shoes is very important to me, so I'll weigh that more heavily than being called an asshole. Hell, I'm pretty used to being called that. So, let's sum this interaction at about zero, neither a positive or negative experience for me, and figure I owe the guy no response.

But if I thought there was a greater likelihood he meant the shoes part and lesser likelihood for the ass part. Then I'd have to say "Thank you" with at least a 50% probability I was sincere. On the other hand, if I thought his sincerities were the opposite, I'd have to punch him in the face, or the nuts. But how hard? What is the probability he'll punch back? What is the ratio of his ratio of strength to mine? How fast can he run? Is society better overall because I'm more likely to punch fat asthmatics than teenagers? I think so.

See what I mean? This is the reason I spend so much time in alone in a basement: I hate all the math it takes to interact with people. And even the simplest, most mundane transactions require me to carry a pencil, paper and a calculator, like when the cashier at Safeway asks "Paper or plastic, asshole?"
Punch her in the face and run, or "Paper, please?" There is no easy answer.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
dictionary says....

crit|ic «KRIHT ihk», noun.
1 a a person who makes judgments of the merits and faults of books, music, pictures, plays, acting, or other works of literature or art. Many critics write upon their subject as a profession. We read what the critics in the newspapers had to say about the new play to find out if it was worth seeing. b a person who judges the suitability or quality of anything.
2 a person who disapproves or finds fault; faultfinder: She was such a constant critic that the other girls did not like her. SYNONYM(S): caviler, censurer, carp.
3 Obsolete. criticism.
4 Obsolete. a critical notice or review; critique.

[< Latin criticus < Greek critical, able to judge < to judge]


crit|i|cism «KRIHT uh sihz uhm», noun.
1 unfavorable remarks or judgments; finding fault: (this is me <grin>Mother could not let my rudeness to her guests pass without criticism. SYNONYM(S): disapproval, fault-finding.
2 the making of judgments; approving or disapproving; analysis of merits and faults: Just criticism should be welcomed. Criticism is simply the method by which existing ideas and institutions are submitted to the test of principles, ideas, ideals, and possibilities (Adlai Stevenson).
3 the art or principles of making careful judgments on the merits and faults of books, music, plays, acting, or other literary or artistic works: literary criticism, drama criticism. Criticism should reveal the character, the spirit of writing, rather than attempt a tape measure estimate of the writer’s status (New York Times).
4 a critical comment, essay, or review; critique: Before I finish this theme, I would appreciate your criticisms of what I have written. SYNONYM(S): See syn. under review. <**********:showEntry('review', 'ent_104815')>
5 the critical science dealing with the text, character, composition, and origin of literary documents, especially of the Bible.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I only wish to learn about... why folk would even consider being thought of in a less than favorable way. From what I read, no body likes them ...then why be one? I am curious and ask those here to show me, teach me, explain with out the condesending remarks that are usually attached to the critics here. Are we doomed to have these unhappy commentors forever.

I said it many times, I can make a list of those who left lit poetry forum not just because of critism but the attitude that seems to flow from such people. I read that it is a part of any ART form <why?> Where in the heck did these creatures evolve from, <stuffy and pompuss professors?>

last but not least where do you get a degree in criticism, or do you not. All you need is a mouth and eye for grammar and structure? Credentials to be a critic? Is any person with an opinion a critic. I see this new forum and the small group that likes to play this way and then the larger group that does not. <hence their reason for leaving to find more favorable sites or forums. If there is a concern for why people leave the lit poetry forum then why continue spatting at them. Do you want a forum <dictated> like the Nazi's, eliminate all those who do not believe as we do? A super human poetry forum. I thought that was for workshops that you pay to go and learn if that is what you want, to truely learn.

I am willing to debate/converse this topic with out slander, open my eyes if you can, but I fear opening my eyes to this type of world will close my heart and mind. When I see those that critic here, the first thing I say is, I am glad I am not that unhappy in life, to pick at other folk, Charactor flaw picks at literary flaws to feel better? Perhaps it takes a certain individual to be this type of..... critic <grin>

Does anyone really listen to critics, here a handful maybe listen to the others comments but what about the professional world, obviously they have jobs doing this and get paid to be an....>grin> critic.? (I get notes all the time, do you understand what they are saying? I say, yep...they are unhappy folk. There has got to be more. Do you really feel as though your helping someone to pick apart a poem that you have no idea why they wrote or what sparked the emotion to write.

Does intellect drive out happiness and compassion as I am told.? not in all cases but obviously in many cases.

I must add that I read most of what is posted here and see who knows how to rewrite and who is practicing, so is this a practice playground for amature critics that we must endure?

condensed questioning;

What does it take to be a critic?...credentials?
Why do people wish to be this type person?
Is any one with an opinion a critic?
How can we help new poets adjust to the harshness of critics here?
Do you like critics and why? Do you really learn from them or just feel they know more so it has to be right.


I would like to add one more thing, not to mention names, but I had a poem that was asked to be published so I went to an elder of the oblong here and asked them to make my poem perfect. I wanted it to be great not just good. They did a rewrite and I sent them the edited version and they rejected the rewrite, saying it was not holsome and simple, simplicity won over in this case so I see no need to write a poem that is not understandable for it is rejected by many who want easy read words that come from the heart not a hashed out version from the intellectual mind. Perhaps this is that point where taste varys but if you want to know why I stick to writing from the heart, this would be one major reason.



enlighten me!

 

[wildsweetone]

i try to offer an opinion only when it's asked for.

i realise i fail miserably at that, sometimes.

the world is full of people who have opinions, most wish to voice them. perhaps it is a confirmation of their own skills, or perhaps it is their way of aiding another fledgling onto firmer ground...

in my opinion, seeing as you asked all nice-like - it costs nothing to shine a light on a new poet and ask them if they'd like further constructive criticism of their work, before tipping the truckload onto them.

none of us are born with the ability to take criticism, it's something we learn over time.

and time is the essence. it takes a moment in time to temper the criticism for the work, with respect for the writer.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

i try to offer an opinion only when it's asked for.

i realise i fail miserably at that, sometimes.

the world is full of people who have opinions, most wish to voice them. perhaps it is a confirmation of their own skills, or perhaps it is their way of aiding another fledgling onto firmer ground...

in my opinion, seeing as you asked all nice-like - it costs nothing to shine a light on a new poet and ask them if they'd like further constructive criticism of their work, before tipping the truckload onto them.

none of us are born with the ability to take criticism, it's something we learn over time.

and time is the essence. it takes a moment in time to temper the criticism for the work, with respect for the writer.

thank you wild

I agree with you on a couple points here and love this...

" .... perhaps it is a confirmation of their own skills,"

 

[wildsweetone]

temper that with a little understanding and you'll go a lot further MET.

 

[annaswirls]

et yette loplerdoe

wehiu se hiesa wiejoa!

wi teoman fiw pold markey but silop friet mongol.
<gamo plomat bleu>

mon droit yickle blat ip snidley snog hippomanna. telluride, snuffle skit scatleguts. et x10,000,000 suer 45% kit katterbull 25% gigabatter si? Ig x=wrotterslang at y=vlotterblot nein?

 

[Guest]

Oh, my darling, Art! This place is nothing like the other site I was on for several years. The advice given here seems to be nothing. I'm afraid to give much more than I have done. I would think that if people didn't want any advice, they wouldn't put their work up to be rated and commented on. Like I said before, not everyone is going to like our work. You could skip the persons poem or choose to lend a hand if you feel it has problems. I don't like to read cussing going on when giving feedback. I don't know why people feel they need to do that. But what's important here, Art, is in order to get published, there's more than "It touched my heart." There's grammar and punctuation, and it should be complete, worked on, and revised over and over before submitting your work out to magazines. Some people don't care or want to get published. I, on the other hand do. I have four poems published so far, and I'm waiting to hear from another magazine that I submitted 5 more to. I'm a dark writer here, so I don't get much feedback on Lit. I don't write much about cocks and putangs anymore because I don't see it sell - only erotic stories do in smut mags. But it is a lot of fun to write if you have the time. If it wasn't for the (KIND) constructive criticism I received from the other site, I wouldn't be where I am today.

Can we at least be kind when giving feedback? There is no need to be mean to people.

My backround: I didn't get my GED until age 31. I suck at Math, and had to retake my test to pass, but I scored high in English and Language Arts. I don't think we need to have gone to college to give people advice, opinions or constructive criticism.

Now, remember my sig. line. I can change my mind in 5 mins. from now. I'm allowed. I have an excuse. Tomorrow I may take all my poetry down again because I'm only half sane. I'm fickle. I'm a crazy Gemini, and I often forget things. I also have Chonic Fatigue, (a sleep disorder) so half the time I'm wired or burned out.

And if I didn't make any sense here or made any types with grammar problems, I'm allowed. Ha! You know why? I'm not submitting.

I'd be dead if my mother saw I started a sentence with "and" or "but". But ...but...but...BUTT...and...and...and...you are just so damn special. Tell me I make sense. Please, tell me I made sense.

 

[Rybka]

MET, I believe you have several times mentioned that Literotica is an amateur forum for amateur poets. So why would you expect a higher quality of criticism than poetry on the site?

Now I am out of this, and I am putting you on "ignore" until this ridiculous feud you insist on promulgating has stopped.

Peace, Rybka

 

[Guest]

wehiu se hiesa wiejoa!

wi teoman fiw pold markey but silop friet mongol.
<gamo plomat bleu>

mon droit yickle blat ip snidley snog hippomanna. telluride, snuffle skit scatleguts. et x10,000,000 suer 45% kit katterbull 25% gigabatter si? Ig x=wrotterslang at y=vlotterblot nein?

Oh man. Laughter is the best medicine, I swear! All I know is "nein" is German. I have a feeling this might be mixed up languages. Anna, can you write this is English please? LOL!

snuffle skit scatleguts made me almost fall off my chair. It almost sounds like "Tough shit" or blurpity, blurp, blurp, blurp. I don't know, but it made me laugh hysterically!

 

[CharleyH]

I wished to understand why any one would want to be thought of as an 'asshole' or a critic, so I asked... those who know and this was what I learned. I am wanting to learn why people here feel the need to be this way. In hopes of fixing this problem of new poets leaving faster than they arrive. (I was told some want it this way) other than that I have no idea what drives an amature critic.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I only wish to learn about... Are we doomed to have these unhappy commentors forever.


last but not least where do you get a degree in criticism, or do you not. Credentials to be a critic? Is any person with an opinion a critic.

enlighten me!

This is a fairly asinine post, Art, but you asked and so I will tell you since indeed, I am a professional critic and get paid quite a lot of money for my opinion.

Consider this a 'freebie'.

First of all, and before I delve into your questions, anyone who writes and reads poetry can consider themselves an amateur critic. In fact, anyone who writes poetry is usually their own worst amateur critic, and criticism is unavoidable. If you don't consider yourself a critic, (since you do have an opinion, and if you weren't a critic, at least of your own work, then your own poetry would be quite shit) then you are a little slow on the uptake in the first place and the rest of my answer will not make much sense to you.

A critic is only considered an asshole by someone that does not like what the said critic has to say. If they liked what the critic had to say, specifically about their own work, then that person would hardly be an asshole now would he/she? So this is rather mute.

As for being a critic on an open forum? Well, if you post a poem for people to read, then they are obviously going to form an opinion about it. If you do not want them to form a critical observation, then you should not post on an open forum and that way you can be rest assured that you will be safe from critics good and bad. If you only wish good comments from critics, then perhaps a line underneath your title would help. It could read: If you don't like my poem, then your opinion is shit to me.

Now, it seems from this thread that you are the self-appointed critic of critics. As a critic, you have formed a judgement that all critics are assholes, and I assume you include yourself in this assessment.

As an asshole it is my job to point out both the faults and praise the strengths of what I am writing about whether that be a film, a piece of writing, article or whatever. My job is to tell the truth as I see it based on a set of criteria that makes something good or bad, genius or pathetic. Most times even the worst of things is worth something. I am not disliked by my audience and the only hate male I get is from irate artists who seem to see more merits in their own work than is actually there. If I were to praise every piece of shit that comes across my desk, then what kind of balance would I be offering my audience and how fair would that really be to the artist?

The best piece of criticism that I ever received was from a teacher who wrote, "What is this shit?" It was brief, it was blunt, it hurt, but it sure as hell made me write better the next time. If she had have been a happy commentator as you suggest, then I'd probably still be writing shit all these years later. It is called getting balls, and if you post your poetry on an open forum, then you should probably get some.

As I have stated ... a poet who writes a poem is qualified to be an amateur critic because they are equipped, at least with the basics, of the mechanics of poetry. Does one get a degree? Well, actually yes and no. My degree equipped me with the tools I need critique, (I can go into details if you like) and I am good at it, which is why I am a professional.

My question is why you whine so much about other peoples opinion when you so freely give your own as if people want to hear it, after all, in giving your opinion you are, as you say, an asshole, too.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Art-

First of all, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you want to discuss anything rationally and, in your words, "debate/converse this topic without slander", why do you use expressions like "filthy critic", "asshole" and "stuffy and pompuss (sic) professors"? You have no interest in learning anything - you are a man with a made-mind, and to hell with anyone else. The fact that you can't even see this hypocrisy would be sad, if we weren't already so used to it, and I am certain that your attitude has scared off more people from the site than all the harshest critics put together.

That being said, on to your questions. Ignoring the Wallace and Gromit sketch that you didn't understand anyway and that has nothing to do with critics, you started by post the dictionary definition of critic. If you weren't pretentious and prejudiced and really wanted to learn and converse as an adult, you could have bolded the definition differently:

critic, noun.
1 a a person who makes judgments of the merits and faults of books, music, pictures, plays, acting, or other works of literature or art. Many critics write upon their subject as a profession. We read what the critics in the newspapers had to say about the new play to find out if it was worth seeing. b a person who judges the suitability or quality of anything.

criticism, noun.
2 the making of judgments; approving or disapproving; analysis of merits and faults: Just criticism should be welcomed. Criticism is simply the method by which existing ideas and institutions are submitted to the test of principles, ideas, ideals, and possibilities (Adlai Stevenson).
3 the art or principles of making careful judgments on the merits and faults of books, music, plays, acting, or other literary or artistic works: literary criticism, drama criticism. Criticism should reveal the character, the spirit of writing, rather than attempt a tape measure estimate of the writer’s status (New York Times).
4 a critical comment, essay, or review; critique: Before I finish this theme, I would appreciate your criticisms of what I have written.
5 the critical science dealing with the text, character, composition, and origin of literary documents, especially of the Bible.​

There are many more positive connotations of the words critic and criticism in your own definition than there are negative. What do you have to say to that?

I only wish to learn about... why folk would even consider being thought of in a less than favorable way. From what I read, no body likes them

What have you read, Art? "Nobody likes a critic"? Nobody likes a doctor either, but if you're sick, you better find one. Some people don't like critics because they don't want to know about the flaws of what they're doing. Ignorance is bliss, as you know. But if you want to learn, if you want to get better, then you have to find out what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. If you just sit and pat your own back, you'll grow roots and die before you start writing poetry. If you want to grow as a poet, you listen to the opinions of those around you - all the opinions, not just the ones that stroke your ego.

then why be one?

In a short answer, for love. For love of poetry, of language, of art. For altruism. A critic is someone whose sole objective is to help others improve their art. Without any personal gain! I know this is a huge mind-block that you have trouble with, but critics care about what you write. Criticisms point strong points and weaknesses in your work - your work, not yourself.

Are we doomed to have these unhappy commentors forever.

Fortunately, yes. I dread the time when critics would disappear - it would be a sad day for the world, and certainly one of the last for poetry.

More to the point, though, there will always be critics in a forum dedicated to poetry that is called Poetry Feedback & Discussion. Whether you like it or not, no matter how many slandering campaigns you start, that will always mean poetry will be discussed, and feedback will be given.

last but not least where do you get a degree in criticism, or do you not. All you need is a mouth and eye for grammar and structure? Credentials to be a critic? Is any person with an opinion a critic.

There you go again with the credentials. Where did this obsession come from? Usually, the only people who even mention credentials actually have them.

You get a degree in criticism the same place where you get a degree in poetry. Do you have academic credentials in poetry? Do you feel that stops you from writing it? Well, the answer is that the poetry you are writing certainly isn't the same you would be writing if you had a degree in poetry. Would it be any more or any less valid than what it is now? What do you think?

The same thing applies to criticism. Academic degrees theoretically give you the experience and the body of knowledge needed to support an opinion. Whether that opinion has more or less validity than any other, has nothing to do with this. You should pay attention to the opinion, not to the person giving it to you. "Giving" to you - noticed the word chosen?

If a criticism is valid, if you understand it and see how it applies to your work, what does it matter to you where it comes from?

A super human poetry forum. I thought that was for workshops that you pay to go and learn if that is what you want, to truely learn

Well, see how lucky you could be if you weren't such an idiot. Here you have a number of people who know about poetry and are willing to share that knowledge with you, even if you keep on insulting them. These people do it because they love poetry, and they want more and better poetry in the world. And they do it all for free! You don't have to pay a fortune, you don't have to go to a workshop, you could learn right here, free of charge, if you wanted.

Perhaps it takes a certain individual to be this type of..... critic <grin>

Perhaps. It obviously takes a person that is patient and has a thick skin, because people like you aren't rare. It takes a lot of love and respect for language, and a bit of a sense of humour.

Does anyone really listen to critics, here a handful maybe listen to the others comments but what about the professional world, obviously they have jobs doing this and get paid to be an....>grin> critic.?

Obviously, good poetry is still being written in the word. That means critics are being heard, and will be for as long as there is poetry.

I must add that I read most of what is posted here and see who knows how to rewrite and who is practicing, so is this a practice playground for amature critics that we must endure?

No, this is definitely no playground. This is a Poetry Feedback & Discussion forum, and it so it will continue to be.

I will close this repeating one thing: you can be sure that your hateful and hypocritical anti-critic crusade and the mindless back-patting you brought has made more and better poets and newbies leave this place than all the harshest criticisms put together, and for that, if not for anything else, you should feel ashamed. You should feel that shame each time you feel like starting a thread like this.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Oh, my darling, Art! This place is nothing like the other site I was on for several years. The advice given here seems to be nothing. I'm afraid to give much more than I have done. I would think that if people didn't want any advice, they wouldn't put their work up to be rated and commented on. Like I said before, not everyone is going to like our work. You could skip the persons poem or choose to lend a hand if you feel it has problems. I don't like to read cussing going on when giving feedback. I don't know why people feel they need to do that. But what's important here, Art, is in order to get published, there's more than "It touched my heart." There's grammar and punctuation, and it should be complete, worked on, and revised over and over before submitting your work out to magazines. Some people don't care or want to get published. I, on the other hand do. I have four poems published so far, and I'm waiting to hear from another magazine that I submitted 5 more to. I'm a dark writer here, so I don't get much feedback on Lit. I don't write much about cocks and putangs anymore because I don't see it sell - only erotic stories do in smut mags. But it is a lot of fun to write if you have the time. If it wasn't for the (KIND) constructive criticism I received from the other site, I wouldn't be where I am today.

Can we at least be kind when giving feedback? There is no need to be mean to people.

My backround: I didn't get my GED until age 31. I suck at Math, and had to retake my test to pass, but I scored high in English and Language Arts. I don't think we need to have gone to college to give people advice, opinions or constructive criticism.

Now, remember my sig. line. I can change my mind in 5 mins. from now. I'm allowed. I have an excuse. Tomorrow I may take all my poetry down again because I'm only half sane. I'm fickle. I'm a crazy Gemini, and I often forget things. I also have Chonic Fatigue, (a sleep disorder) so half the time I'm wired or burned out.

And if I didn't make any sense here or made any types with grammar problems, I'm allowed. Ha! You know why? I'm not submitting.

I'd be dead if my mother saw I started a sentence with "and" or "but". But ...but...but...BUTT...and...and...and...you are just so damn special. Tell me I make sense. Please, tell me I made sense.

You make sense....

I find this site is different from others, harsher and I say that by saying that the same HARSHNESS prevails today than did a year ago. Nothing has changed.

as for being published...I am published, they liked the story and the imagination that created such a write, an editor went through and fixed problems and they sent it to me for me to sign off on it. Hence rather your an expert in grammar, an editor will rearrange it to be what call commercially viable. I will probably never write the great american novel, but I like paperback...I buy paperback books to read <grin>

I leave comments, does that make me a critic? I think not...I think a critic must know what they are speaking of and my point here is how we must endure the type critics we have here at lit. With out naming names a couple people here leave great critics and then there's the attitude spillers. I guess we have to put up with both, I am just curious why any one would want to do this?

thanks rybka...this is not a spat...a question...no need for ignor-ance. This is not aimed at you, you have a nice voice here and rarely get demeaning.

 

[twelveoone]

I don't mind being thought of as either, but unless it had my number next to it, it wasn't mine.
Perhaps you can look at it as a balancing of Karma.
As to new writers leaving, I have always been more concerned with new critics afraid to leave comments on mistakes. I hate finding all of them on my own.
LONG LIVE YDD
Now, I hate anonymous comments even worse than I hate fluff, or thread hogs, or people that think that every word that drops from their lips is golden.

 

[annaswirls]

I

enlighten me!

flurble yado mustafasach todaroma

 

[annaswirls]

englais

ick libre signatorium
flora montagna griffle snub

shania rufle snuff ist la la la
et schoobie doo

Oh man. Laughter is the best medicine, I swear! All I know is "nein" is German. I have a feeling this might be mixed up languages. Anna, can you write this is English please? LOL!

snuffle skit scatleguts made me almost fall off my chair. It almost sounds like "Tough shit" or blurpity, blurp, blurp, blurp. I don't know, but it made me laugh hysterically!

 

[My Erotic Tale]

I don't mind being thought of as either, but unless it had my number next to it, it wasn't mine.
Perhaps you can look at it as a balancing of Karma.
As to new writers leaving, I have always been more concerned with new critics afraid to leave comments on mistakes. I hate finding all of them on my own.
LONG LIVE YDD
Now, I hate anonymous comments even worse than I hate fluff, or thread hogs, or people that think that every word that drops from their lips is golden.

this does not answer the questions...
it fluffs your ....thoughts

 

[twelveoone]

Art-

First of all, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you want to discuss anything rationally and, in your words, "debate/converse this topic without slander", why do you use expressions like "filthy critic", "asshole" and "stuffy and pompuss (sic) professors"? You have no interest in learning anything - you are a man with a made-mind, and to hell with anyone else. The fact that you can't even see this hypocrisy would be sad, if we weren't already so used to it, and I am certain that your attitude has scared off more people from the site than all the harshest critics put together.

That being said, on to your questions. Ignoring the Wallace and Gromit sketch that you didn't understand anyway and that has nothing to do with critics, you started by post the dictionary definition of critic. If you weren't pretentious and prejudiced and really wanted to learn and converse as an adult, you could have bolded the definition differently:

critic, noun.
1 a a person who makes judgments of the merits and faults of books, music, pictures, plays, acting, or other works of literature or art. Many critics write upon their subject as a profession. We read what the critics in the newspapers had to say about the new play to find out if it was worth seeing. b a person who judges the suitability or quality of anything.

criticism, noun.
2 the making of judgments; approving or disapproving; analysis of merits and faults: Just criticism should be welcomed. Criticism is simply the method by which existing ideas and institutions are submitted to the test of principles, ideas, ideals, and possibilities (Adlai Stevenson).
3 the art or principles of making careful judgments on the merits and faults of books, music, plays, acting, or other literary or artistic works: literary criticism, drama criticism. Criticism should reveal the character, the spirit of writing, rather than attempt a tape measure estimate of the writer’s status (New York Times).
4 a critical comment, essay, or review; critique: Before I finish this theme, I would appreciate your criticisms of what I have written.
5 the critical science dealing with the text, character, composition, and origin of literary documents, especially of the Bible.​

There are many more positive connotations of the words critic and criticism in your own definition than there are negative. What do you have to say to that?


What have you read, Art? "Nobody likes a critic"? Nobody likes a doctor either, but if you're sick, you better find one. Some people don't like critics because they don't want to know about the flaws of what they're doing. Ignorance is bliss, as you know. But if you want to learn, if you want to get better, then you have to find out what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. If you just sit and pat your own back, you'll grow roots and die before you start writing poetry. If you want to grow as a poet, you listen to the opinions of those around you - all the opinions, not just the ones that stroke your ego.


In a short answer, for love. For love of poetry, of language, of art. For altruism. A critic is someone whose sole objective is to help others improve their art. Without any personal gain! I know this is a huge mind-block that you have trouble with, but critics care about what you write. Criticisms point strong points and weaknesses in your work - your work, not yourself.


Fortunately, yes. I dread the time when critics would disappear - it would be a sad day for the world, and certainly one of the last for poetry.

More to the point, though, there will always be critics in a forum dedicated to poetry that is called Poetry Feedback & Discussion. Whether you like it or not, no matter how many slandering campaigns you start, that will always mean poetry will be discussed, and feedback will be given.


There you go again with the credentials. Where did this obsession come from? Usually, the only people who even mention credentials actually have them.

You get a degree in criticism the same place where you get a degree in poetry. Do you have academic credentials in poetry? Do you feel that stops you from writing it? Well, the answer is that the poetry you are writing certainly isn't the same you would be writing if you had a degree in poetry. Would it be any more or any less valid than what it is now? What do you think?

The same thing applies to criticism. Academic degrees theoretically give you the experience and the body of knowledge needed to support an opinion. Whether that opinion has more or less validity than any other, has nothing to do with this. You should pay attention to the opinion, not to the person giving it to you. "Giving" to you - noticed the word chosen?

If a criticism is valid, if you understand it and see how it applies to your work, what does it matter to you where it comes from?


Well, see how lucky you could be if you weren't such an idiot. Here you have a number of people who know about poetry and are willing to share that knowledge with you, even if you keep on insulting them. These people do it because they love poetry, and they want more and better poetry in the world. And they do it all for free! You don't have to pay a fortune, you don't have to go to a workshop, you could learn right here, free of charge, if you wanted.


Perhaps. It obviously takes a person that is patient and has a thick skin, because people like you aren't rare. It takes a lot of love and respect for language, and a bit of a sense of humour.


Obviously, good poetry is still being written in the word. That means critics are being heard, and will be for as long as there is poetry.


No, this is definitely no playground. This is a Poetry Feedback & Discussion forum, and it so it will continue to be.

I will close this repeating one thing: you can be sure that your hateful and hypocritical anti-critic crusade and the mindless back-patting you brought has made more and better poets and newbies leave this place than all the harshest criticisms put together, and for that, if not for anything else, you should feel ashamed. You should feel that shame each time you feel like starting a thread like this.

Ah, Lauren, I like critics, even the ones I don't agree with, maybe even them better if we can hammer out an understanding. - Just my nickel, and a good excuse to put this up again, some things are worth repeating.

 

[twelveoone]

this does not answer the questions...
it fluffs your ....thoughts

Art YOU never answer questions, you're like Karl Rove

 

[Liar]

Art,

when you review the New Poems for a day, and write what you liked about them, guess what you are?

Hint: It starts with a C and ends with RITIC.

Yes.

You.

A critic.

A critic is not (I repeat: NOT) a person who slams down and says "this sux" all the time.

A critic is a person who examines a piece of art (or something else) and tells other people what he thought about it.

That is all. Why is that filthy?

 

[Guest]

ick libre signatorium
flora montagna griffle snub

shania rufle snuff ist la la la
et schoobie doo

Shit. I half to go make dinner. I've got to get back online and look this stuff up.

ick at my sig?

Shania Twain does snuff after she lala's?

Scoobie doo is cool.

I thought iche leiben diche would be nicer. I don't know if I spelled that right. I love it when a man speaks to me in German. It makes me wet between my legs.

 

[Liar]

flurble yado mustafasach todaroma

Why did that turn me on?

 

[WickedEve]

Filthy poet? You people are talking about me, aren't you?!
Hey, I just got here and it's too much to read. Can someone give me a summary? And what the heck is anna saying?

 

[WickedEve]

Filthy poet? You people are talking about me, aren't you?!
Hey, I just got here and it's too much to read. Can someone give me a summary? And what the heck is anna saying?

Oh, filthy critic. No. I'm the filthy poet.

 

[twelveoone]

Oh, filthy critic. No. I'm the filthy poet.

I disagree

 

[Liar]

Felty?

http://www.cinematical.com/images/2005/08/kermit.jpg

 

[WickedEve]

I disagree

I can be.