the experience of evil - a discussion as to what it might actually be

[BoyNextDoor]

This world is the will to power—and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this will to power—and nothing besides!
- Nietzsche

I pretty much fall in line with the denial of a universal morality for all human beings.

As far as any belief in something like a ghost or a supernatural being, I'd say that persons with those beliefs have a different perception of reality than I do.

 

[butters]

This world is the will to power—and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this will to power—and nothing besides!
- Nietzsche

I pretty much fall in line with the denial of a universal morality for all human beings.

As far as any belief in something like a ghost or a supernatural being, I'd say that persons with those beliefs have a different perception of reality than I do.

that's not really what this discussion was about, though. have you ever experienced a similar thing?

i'm looking to understand the scientific reasons that no doubt exist for (1) experiencing something like i did and fgb did, and (2) the translation of that, or perception of that, as automatically 'evil'

i'm not saying that the person i experienced that way WAS evil, just that that's how it felt at the time... perhaps 'wrong' is a better description but my brain automatically went to that place (probably due to the easiest route given a religious upbringing in school).

 

[butters]

I was thinking about your comment and what you described about your experience does have all of the hallmarks of an intense deja vu event like was discussed in another one of your threads. The fact that the person and the circumstances were so mundane, and yet you had such a strong reaction really speaks to my own "glimpse" experiences from your other thread. I must admit that the feeling of a powerful deja vu is quite unsettling and could easily by mistaken as bad or "evil". However, I'm such a believer that "paranormal" events are just things science hasn't figured out yet, that I don't assign labels like "good" or "evil" to them.

you have me thinking along the same lines, though i'm not sure deja vu is the right culprit...maybe there's some kind of spectrum of intensity, but so far i think it may be related to that sphere of experiences.

when i DID have a recognised deja vu brain-glitch, there was an absence of any sense of malice (even if i did feel weird and nauseous) and a clear sensation of feeling i'd dreamt or lived it before... as far as i recall, i think i was sure i'd dreamt it that morning, early, and this was it playing out in real-time later that day. i know what causes that even if i didn't then.

what was maybe the most interesting aspect for me (as i look back on the 'evil' experience) was the sudden trigger to 'wrongness/evil' that grew in intensity as i closed the gap and weakened as i walked past and more space grew between myself and that person. that's maybe what's tickling my brain most and i just wonder if it's more along the lines of some electrical disturbance being broadcast by them that jarred with my own.

that poor guy was probably entirely innocent of any wrongness.

i get along well with most people... if i later find out they're not the people i thought them to be, i get to change my mind. but, given that, there was one girl in my office who i simply couldn't be around without feeling really irritated and always needed to make space between us. nothing she'd done (was a bit of a whinger but quite normal otherwise), but simply being in her presence would make me feel all kinds of out of sorts to how i generally am. perhaps this was something along the same 'disturbance' of energies? dunno. at least i tried never to be nasty or deliberately unkind to the girl, just had to make distance.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

that's not really what this discussion was about, though. have you ever experienced a similar thing?

i'm looking to understand the scientific reasons that no doubt exist for (1) experiencing something like i did and fgb did, and (2) the translation of that, or perception of that, as automatically 'evil'

i'm not saying that the person i experienced that way WAS evil, just that that's how it felt at the time... perhaps 'wrong' is a better description but my brain automatically went to that place (probably due to the easiest route given a religious upbringing in school).

I have looked at a woman and felt the "thunderbolt"

Her facial symmetry, pheromones, phenotypical traits from hair color to skin tone and body shape and probably any number of little "body language" nuances I observed all came together in that instant - as well as my own history and how all those things were interpreted. So yes, I suppose I have experienced something similar in that I had a powerful feeling about a person with very little to no interaction.

My guess is your perception of "evil" was along the same lines.

Maybe because I see the world as "beyond good and evil" I don't have them about the same things like angels and demons the way you and FGB do.

 

[butters]

I have looked at a woman and felt the "thunderbolt"

Her facial symmetry, pheromones, phenotypical traits from hair color to skin tone and body shape and probably any number of little "body language" nuances I observed all came together in that instant - as well as my own history and how all those things were interpreted. So yes, I suppose I have experienced something similar in that I had a powerful feeling about a person with very little to no interaction.

My guess is your perception of "evil" was along the same lines.

Maybe because I see the world as "beyond good and evil" I don't have them about the same things like angels and demons the way you and FGB do.

angels and demons are more fgb's interpretation. i don't see it that way at all, thinking my gut reaction (which decided 'evil' was the simplest got-to at the time) to have a more scientific explanation and very likely something very alien to the religious perceptions.

 

[butters]

i should have titled this thread better to reflect a clearer intent

oh well

 

[spacekowboy]

I'm not going to read that moron's alphabet soup, but to me evil comes down to one thing, malice of forethought. To intentionally do harm to another for either personal gain or to placate the id.
It's not demons and brimstone. Fuck outta here with that shit.

 

[Comshaw]

I was thinking about your comment and what you described about your experience does have all of the hallmarks of an intense deja vu event like was discussed in another one of your threads. The fact that the person and the circumstances were so mundane, and yet you had such a strong reaction really speaks to my own "glimpse" experiences from your other thread. I must admit that the feeling of a powerful deja vu is quite unsettling and could easily by mistaken as bad or "evil". However, I'm such a believer that "paranormal" events are just things science hasn't figured out yet, that I don't assign labels like "good" or "evil" to them.

First off let me say I do believe there are evil people in the world. Nothing else can explain Hitler, Pol Pot and others. But I do not believe they throw out an aura that can be detected by others. I also do not believe in angels and demons. To believe in those things you must believe in a god and I don't.

I am not disputing that some can feel things while in the presents of others. But like Lazaran I believe it's a scientifically based phenomenon that just hasn't been explained yet.

My guess: it could be a conflict of dissimilar brain waves. The brain produces 5 different kinds of frequencies: Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta and Gamma. From fgb's description, it could be that his brain waves and the ones from the person he identified as a demon were in conflict. The feedback from that conflict could very well explain the physical distress he detailed. Conversely, the euphoric feeling when in range of a person who's brain waves match or enhance ours very well could explain the "angels" in our midst.

As I stated, that's only a guess on my part, but we know next to nothing about how far, how strongly or what effect our brian waves have.

Comshaw

 

[Wings]

sorry to hear that, W. glad you survived the experiences.

have you ever had that sort of thing fgb describes similar to my own? not knowing the people, just that really really REALLY bad feeling like something out of a stephen king novel when they triggered your radar in some way? i'd still love to know if there's a general scientific term for this kind of thing which is (i guess) something like extreme transitory paranoia, and if there's a real difference between someone/thing evil triggering it in people and something that's independent of the perceived trigger.

I have always just assumed that those people who make me uneasy, or trigger a suspicious response in me were at some frequency that my lizard brain didn’t like. My mom has this uncanny knack for trying to help people who give me the creeps. I’m pretty sure her frequency is off as well. I’m pretty easy going about life and I leave people alone most of the time, she tends to find the ones who aren’t good for anyone. Some with ill intent, and those are the ones I don’t like. The past few years she’s been sticking to just rescuing cats, not shady people.

 

[Lucy_Lastic]

There is no such thing as evil. Evil is a lazy word people use to excuse things they don't, understand - and to stop bad things happening, we need to understand them.

The holocaust wasn't evil. Ther holocaust was a combination of social unrest, a cynical leader manipulating national pride, and the need for someone to blame for a country's ills.

When you say something's evil you're saying it's supernatural, beyond human comprehension. There's no such thing.

 

[TallMan69]

What an interesting thread. Love all the conjectures about evil, thinking through different constructs/lenses and some even wondering about the very existence of evil itself and if it’s more along a continuum of behavior vs black or white. With the idea of mental illness and most all of us having our anxieties and fears what is normal? And how well are we able to operate in the real world through them?

I like reading through the experiences of what some have detected through their antenna/radar about someone being so cold/emotionless, bordering on sociopathic/psychopathic behavior. And there are also narcissists that would definitely give off the ‘creep factor’ with self-serving agendas and lack of empathy.

Interesting to learn about the different brain waves and either being in alignment or unalignment with someone with the perception of good (angelic) vs evil (demonic) vibe.

Also the quick perception of dogs with someone being a good or bad person is interesting. Crazy to read about the government’s involvement in that regard to create a super soldier mentality to quickly dispatch the enemy.

This seems like a topic that would really divide the absolutists vs the moral relativists. It’s a lot easier to die on the hill for the definite existence and recognition of evil in a world with absolute evil and absolute good. But in an enlightened age it’s harder to cast that stone when opinions and lifestyles differ a lot in modern times.

I don’t know if I’ve ever come across someone who immediately gave me the ‘heebie geebies.’ I like another had stated give everyone a chance and let their actions speak. But after a short while with some one can see things that aren’t right actions so minimizing contact with them.

Obviously, horror writers hope to channel this unemotional /stoic /heartless persona to display the evil intent of the antagonist. If I had to think of one character that still creeps me out to this day it is Mr Gaunt from “Needful Things” who kind of appeared as the person who appeared angelic and having what everyone needed but it was all a facade. Probably one of the creepiest, evilest literary people I’ve ever was introduced to. That gets to the dangerous manipulator /cagy/ cunning type who could appear as all things to all peoples but having an underhanded end game. Let’s hope their aren’t many of those evil shopkeepers around.

Great topic.

 

[twister947]

As Justice Potter Stewart said, of porn, "I know it when I see it."

 

[FGB]

sorry to hear that, W. glad you survived the experiences.

have you ever had that sort of thing fgb describes similar to my own? not knowing the people, just that really really REALLY bad feeling like something out of a stephen king novel when they triggered your radar in some way? i'd still love to know if there's a general scientific term for this kind of thing which is (i guess) something like extreme transitory paranoia, and if there's a real difference between someone/thing evil triggering it in people and something that's independent of the perceived trigger.

Might be something along this line...
In 1 Corinthians 12, Paul lists nine gifts of the Holy Spirit that should be operating in the church and are available to believers. One of those gifts is called “discerning of spirits” (see 1 Corinthians 12:10). Discerning of spirits is the supernatural ability to perceive what is happening in the spiritual realm and judge between the Holy Spirit and demonic spirits.

 

[FGB]

I have known people that love evil. They practice being evil...live and breathe it. That is one kind.
Some are taught Evil ways, yet make a strange hash of it as if something inside was worrying them that their lifestyle was wrong and it just didn't set well with them.
Most people live by the sword when they are young, ignorant and full of fire.

However, what i was talking about is that that Dude was either a Demon taking on human form ( Somehow i don't think so but angels can do take human form so a Assume Demons & such can also. )
or more likely was someone that was taken over by evil forces.

 

[FGB]

Basically; this nails it.

I won't deny I've had some strange paranormal experiences in my life (which I won't describe) but the way I judge people as "Good" or "Evil" is by their beliefs and by their actions. I have never felt unspecified "heebie jeebies" about a person, unless they said or did anything that triggered it. Like, for example, they came across as some kind of swindler or scam artist, started following me and dogging my footsteps for no reason, or they were dressed in gang attire or white-surpremacist symbols, or they made a creepy or inappropriate remark. These are things that trigger a "Beware this guy's evil" response in me.

I have heard people (like mr. FGB himself ironically) give a free pass to certain political leaders who pursue destructive policies that would be defined in the Bible as "Evil," and I have heard corrupted Christian religious philosophy used as justification used to commit acts upon other people that most people would consider evil. Persecuting people because of faith, color, or gender, depriving them of property or human rights, murder, torture, imprisonment without justification, violent acts of unprovoked aggression, racism- these things are evil, and should be universally considered so.

No...No "Free Passes"
However, i am aware that God uses people both Great and Unremarkable. Some if not most would consider unsavory characters to say the least!

I don't label Good or Evil lightly knowing that almost all men and women are a mix of both depending on the amount of God's light shinning in their souls.

Good, bad or evil can be extreamly diffucult to discern in a short space of time or at a distance!

 

[iso36]

Modern theologians tend towards a more dynamic thinking about good and evil.

Some say that you create you own heaven or hell through the way you live.

That’s where the good people can do bad things thinking comes from, which also serves to explain why rewards and punishments can seem arbitrary.

For example, part of butters might believe she is somehow being helpful or “good” by clogging up the boards like busybody with pasted links to news stories any of us could find and read at msn if we wanted to and declaring who the rest of us should or shouldn’t talk to by telling us they are “liars”.

Eye of the beholder.

 

[lovecraft68]

Evil isn't science, and its not mental illness-we want to quantify it as both because that means there is an explanation and a cure- Evil is also not limited to a political party(sad that has to be mentioned) gender, race, sexuality, religion or any other demographic.

Evil is also not things like racism, or sexism or a fear or dislike for anyone different than you. That's ignorance. Even hate is not necessarily evil, in that there is something out there we all loathe. Hate is a typical human emotion.

Evil is primal. My wife, who is very spiritual says evil is a lack of light. I go further, evil is a lack of everything. Light, love, caring, any emotion at all. Evil people are not raving lunatics frothing at the mouth, evil are the sociopaths, the people capable of committing any act without remorse or any other emotion, they're machinelike in what they do.


Disassociation is a term used for serial killers, they see their victims as no different than a plastic doll they are completely separate from the human experience. The ultimate hedonism but with nihilism running through them.

Hitler comes up often when Evil is mentioned, but Hitler had a purpose-twisted, but to him a purpose-the lies, the brainwashing, the targeting of the Jews were means to an end. It was calculated.

However, there was evil there. Evil in the sense there was no shortage of people to run the concentration camps. They did not have to do what they did, they wanted to. Those camps were heaven on earth for true evil. A normal person struggles to even read about what went on there, imagine doing it?

Which is why the morons who run around calling people Nazi's in this country need to be shone every documentary and all available footage from those camps. Because you have no idea what you're talking about and think you're funny. Reality is you're denigrating the people who suffered at the hands of true Nazis and turning it into another thing people get so tired of hearing they tune it out, which is what leads to it being possible.

Jeffrey Dahmer always comes to mind when he said in an interview there was no one to blame for him. He had good parents, a good life, no trauma, nothing that 'broke him' so to speak.

We see all the time bad seeds coming from good people and lives.

People are born evil. Its a trait and neither science or god can fix it

 

[FGB]

Evil does come from and can grow in the Human "Heart or Soul" as we say.
One can practice Evil ways until they are consumed by it...some do and are Proud of it.

It is said that God gives them over to an "Unclean Spirit. at some point.