The evil side of flyover country

[DVS]

I don't know the best place for this, so I don't mind if it gets moved to the cafe. I just thought I'd share with those of you who are looking for kinky sex partners, the kind of person you could meet up with.

Don't think of this as flyover country, because we have our share of good and evil happening here.

The evil...
It seems we may have a snuff ring in town. Well, they are now in custody, but there was this couple (man and woman) who were filming violent BDSM type videos where one woman was the victim.

Her hands were duct taped behind her back and her eyes were duct taped. The man and woman were shooting a video while they raped, beat and eventually killed this woman. Not to get too graphic, but the video shows her being punched, kicked, used and abused to the point she threw up. The police detectives who had to watch it said they are having trouble sleeping at night.

What started all of this was the woman's body was found in a shallow grave by a farmer about a week ago. Some how, police centered in on this couple and when a search was done, videos were found. Yes, more than one.

One video is for sure of the woman found in the shallow grave. But, there are other videos and the process of trying to associate those videos with other missing women is ongoing.

The pair skipped town and went south. There was a nation wide man hunt, and during their travel south they had also taken the man's half sister's 5 year old daughter with them on the run. That part is kind of sketchy. Who knows why they did that. But they are being charged with kidnapping her, too.

Another strange turn of events was when the woman called 911 and said they were going to harm themselves. She said they had taken some pills and were going to drive off a clift or something.

Well, they did drive into something hard, and they were all injured, but not killed. The man is now back in Kansas City...in jail. The woman is in a Joplin, MO hospital and the little girl is in a hospital, here in Kansas City.

What bothers me is again how this looks to the BDSM community. Sure, it's not BDSM, but to the peoeple that don't know any better, what happened on the video can be considered BDSM, or at least S/M sex play, until it got so rough she was killed.

There are some who get into pretty rough stuff. Of course, there is a line that isn't crossed, but again, to those who don't know this, it's seen as a part of BDSM or S/M sex play.

Some people don't know what a snuff film is, but there are some pretty strange people out there and they need to experience the ultimate control to get their rocks off. Killing someone who is naked, bound and helpless to even put up a fight...that's a snuff film.

The good...
They are in custody. But, what about the others just like them that are out there?

More of the story

 

[graceanne]

This is why I don't watch the news. How horrible.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Gotta love that Kansas.

d

 

[Guest]

. . . There are some who get into pretty rough stuff. Of course, there is a line that isn't crossed, but again, to those who don't know this, it's seen as a part of BDSM or S/M sex play.

Some people don't know what a snuff film is, but there are some pretty strange people out there and they need to experience the ultimate control to get their rocks off. Killing someone who is naked, bound and helpless to even put up a fight...that's a snuff film.

The good...
They are in custody. But, what about the others just like them that are out there?

More of the story

I'm not certain this will be spun as S/M sex play gone awry.

Since Davis already served nearly 18 years for a prior conviction of rape and sodomy, hopefully he'll be seen as the criminal he is and not someone who is merely "into sex games."

 

[DVS]

I'm not certain this will be spun as S/M sex play gone awry.

Since Davis already served nearly 18 years for a prior conviction of rape and sodomy, hopefully he'll be seen as the criminal he is and not someone who is merely "into sex games."

Maybe. Yes, he's been convicted and served 18 years. But, there are still those who don't know any differently and because sex is involved, the unenlightened and uneducated will see it as a type of S/M sex scene.

And, I don't think they will see it as something gone awry. Snuff films are considered kink...strange and weird and out there, but there is a market for it. This has been labeled a snuff film. Not for sale, but he always intended on killing the woman, after the rough sex and the beating. There is a witness on record saying Davis said he was shopping for women who wanted to engage in rough 3 way sex. He also mentioned he wanted to kill a woman during the sex act.

From the linked article in my first post:

One of the first witnesses that police interviewed was Lorie Dunfield, a close friend of Spicer’s. According to court documents, Dunfield told investigators on May 16 that Davis had wanted to find women who would engage in violent, three-way sex. Davis allegedly told Dunfield that he wanted to kill a woman during the sex act, which would be videotaped.

Now, to someone who has no clue about what really happens in a BDSM or S/M sex relationship, I'd say that sounds like kinky sex taken to the ultimate step. But, because they have no idea what really goes on in our world, I bet snuff acts are grouped right together with our kinks.

 

[DVS]

Gotta love that Kansas.

d

Yeah, we're not just flat lands and wheat fields. But, to clarify...this is in Kansas City, Missouri. No need to tarnish Kansas. Although we do have John Robinson and BTK on our side of the state line.

 

[Guest]

Maybe. Yes, he's been convicted and served 18 years. But, there are still those who don't know any differently and because sex is involved, the unenlightened and uneducated will see it as a type of S/M sex scene.

And, I don't think they will see it as something gone awry. Snuff films are considered kink...strange and weird and out there, but there is a market for it. This has been labeled a snuff film. Not for sale, but he always intended on killing the woman, after the rough sex and the beating. There is a witness on record saying Davis said he was shopping for women who wanted to engage in rough 3 way sex. He also mentioned he wanted to kill a woman during the sex act.

From the linked article in my first post:

One of the first witnesses that police interviewed was Lorie Dunfield, a close friend of Spicer’s. According to court documents, Dunfield told investigators on May 16 that Davis had wanted to find women who would engage in violent, three-way sex. Davis allegedly told Dunfield that he wanted to kill a woman during the sex act, which would be videotaped.

Now, to someone who has no clue about what really happens in a BDSM or S/M sex relationship, I'd say that sounds like kinky sex taken to the ultimate step. But, because they have no idea what really goes on in our world, I bet snuff acts are grouped right together with our kinks.

I'll bet they are.

With as much misinformation spewing from the fundamentalists these days, I wonder how they'll use this tragedy to further their own moralistic campaign.

 

[Xelebes]

The problem is that it is, just not RACK or SSC which we associate for the most part to BDSM.

 

[DVS]

The problem is that it is, just not RACK or SSC which we associate for the most part to BDSM.

Well, I don't know. It involves murder and that isn't even close to being SSC or RACK. It's so far off the scale I don't see how it should be related.

Oh, I do get your point. It's a sexual thing for those who enjoy snuff acts, but I don't consider anything I enjoy even remotely related. Sure, they both engage in rough sex during the scene, but would you say a drive by shooting and going to a Disney movie would be the same, because they both require a car ride?

And, when finished with a BDSM or S/M play scene, you only have toys to clean up and put away. With a snuff act, there is a lot more to the clean up. And, you're always looking for a new play partner...

I'm not trying to lessen the horror of this act. I'm sorry, if it seems like I am.

But, your point is made and someone on the outside looking in might easily agree.

 

[Xelebes]

If your driving a car, it doesn't matter if you do a drive-by shooting or going to Disneyland, you're still driving a car.

In this case, we are discussing the extremas of sadism, which is considered a fringe of BDSM. It isn't all that popular fringe of BDSM but it is still there. It is what we have to contend with - hence the creation of the rules of SSC and RACK.

 

[DVS]

If your driving a car, it doesn't matter if you do a drive-by shooting or going to Disneyland, you're still driving a car.

In this case, we are discussing the extremas of sadism, which is considered a fringe of BDSM. It isn't all that popular fringe of BDSM but it is still there. It is what we have to contend with - hence the creation of the rules of SSC and RACK.

Maybe you're still driving the car, but it's not the same. One includes taking the life of another person. The other is just going to see a movie.

Sadism doesn't include murder as the main part of the scene. Sure, it can happen in the process of a violent scene, but it's not intentional. It's only a biproduct...an accident. With snuff, that's ALWAYS the intended goal. The brutal sex is only a means of getting there. With a sadist, the brutal sex is the goal.

Murder is not part of my kink. And, I refuse to even think of it ever being a part of it. And to generalize BDSM so it includes murder is going too far, if you ask me. With or without SSC or RACK, anyone that was in to BDSM for BDSM never had killing on their mind. Only the sickos had killing on their mind and the sex was only there because it was an easy vehicle. SSC and RACK are now there to keep the true BDSMers away from the preditory sickos.

Just like John Robinson's methods were preditory. He used the nick SlaveMaster as a way to attrack his victims. He wasn't into BDSM at all, but used parts of it to his advantage because it worked.

I think Davis was using bondage and BDSM as a means of controlling his victims. It isn't snuff unless the victim is totally unable to fight back. Just anybody who ties someone up before they kill them isn't into BDSM. But, I consider all of them, Robinson, BTK and Davis as sick. I won't even generalize what I enjoy and killing another human being as being other than remotely related.

I just heard on the news this evening that Davis and the woman took the 5 year old little girl out into a fiield and sexually molested her. They said the molestation was so violent and severe that she almost died. They said she needed extensive surgery because it was so violent.

Again...I don't consider myself in the same class as these people. Maybe in a clinical way doctors who don't know any better will consider what they do to people as sexual in nature. And even if it is, I don't consider myself sick, or even the most violent S/M scene as sick, as long as it's consentual. How can anybody in their right mind consent to being murdered for fun? BDSM is never about murder.

EDITED to add:
My sanity deserves to know that what I do to a bound woman and what Davis does are not coming from the same part of the brain.

EDITED again later to correct the nick Robinson used...I had SadoMaster and it was actually SlaveMaster.

 

[Xelebes]

To me, sadism doesn't fit into laws. There is lawful sadism and then is unlawful sadism. Torturing, raping and killing is considered as fgar as you can possibly go interms of sadism. It certainly is not lawful but it is sadism. Sadism is not a legal term like contract, it is a psychosexual term like fetish. There is also unlawful fetish and lawful fetish - are you going to say unconsentual voyeurism in toilet stalls is not an act of fetishism?

 

[DVS]

To me, sadism doesn't fit into laws. There is lawful sadism and then is unlawful sadism. Torturing, raping and killing is considered as fgar as you can possibly go interms of sadism. It certainly is not lawful but it is sadism. Sadism is not a legal term like contract, it is a psychosexual term like fetish. There is also unlawful fetish and lawful fetish - are you going to say unconsentual voyeurism in toilet stalls is not an act of fetishism?

Well, I'm confused where the toilet voyeurism thing fits into this, but I think you are possibly confusing the sadist with the sociopath or psychopath. A sadist isn't interested in killing. He gets no joy from killing his victims. His fun comes from inflicting pain. Now, if his vicitm dies because of his torture, that's not intentional. he preferrs his victims to stick around...more fun for him.

A sociopath sometimes has sadistic traits, so it's easy to confuse the two. And a psychopath can also have sadistic traits, but they tend to be more social in their methods than the sociopath. either the sociopath or the psychopath are capable of killing and have no remorse afterwards. If it works for what they have in mind, killing is easy fot them.

The below is a little lengthy, but it explains the different types of sociopath and psychopath. I'd guess Davis fots as an aggressive sociopath. But, right now, there isn't enough info about the case available.

COMMON SOCIOPATHS are the largest subtype and have a weak or unelaborated conscience. They are not ashamed by the same things as you or I would be ashamed of. They are like feral children grown up, taking pleasures and gratifying impulses at every opportunity or temptation. They especially enjoy and take pride in bending or breaking the rules. As teenagers, they are often runaways. As adults, they are often geographically mobile, living in shelters, or taking advantage of welfare systems. They are experienced shoplifters. They have quite active sex lives. They are usually of average intelligence, but don't do well in school and never seem to break out of low-paying dead-end jobs. Nevertheless, they seem genuinely happy with their lives, unburdened by any sense of negative self-worth or the fact that they have not been a functional, contributing member of society.

ALIENATED SOCIOPATHS have never developed the ability to love, empathize, or affiliate in real life with another person. They will show more emotion toward their pet or a personal artifact than toward a person. Or, they may hate animals and live out their emotional life by watching TV (identification with soap opera characters is a common pattern). Dating and marriage relationships will be very barren and empty. They won't get along with the neighbors. They live in a shell. They have a cold, callous attitude toward human suffering or any social problem in the society they live in. They just don't care because it's outside their range of empathy. Most will believe they are justified in this because they feel they were cheated in some way themselves by society, and a few will be more than happy to rant and rave about it to anyone who listens. They are chronic complainers, and underneath it all, they would like to see nothing better than all of society destroyed.

AGGRESSIVE SOCIOPATHS derive strong, yet nonperverse gratification from harming others. They like to hurt, frighten, tyrannize, bully, and manipulate. They do it for a sense of power and control, and will often only drop subtle hints about what they are up to. They polish their aggressive, domineering manner in such a way to disguise any intimidation others might feel. They seek out positions of power, such as parent, teacher, bureaucrat, supervisor, or police officer. Their style is one of passive aggression as they systematically go about sabotaging the ideas of others to get their ideas in place. In their spare time, they like to hunt or occasionally do sadistic things like find stray dogs and cut them up. They are usually effective at getting their way, and are especially vindictive if resisted or crossed. They don't follow the social norm of reciprocity like others do.

DYSSOCIAL SOCIOPATHS identify and hold an allegiance with a dyssocial, outcast, or predatory subculture. Any subculture will do, as long as it runs counter to established authority. They are capable of intense loyalty, and even a feeling of guilt and shame, within such limited circles. They seem to continually fall upon bad luck and bad companions, however. While they will constantly complain that none of this is their fault, behind it all is a kind of self-defeating mechanism in the poor choices they made themselves.




DISTEMPERED PSYCHOPATHS are the kind that seem to fly into a rage or frenzy more easily and more often than other subtypes. Their frenzy will resemble an epileptic fit. They are also usually men with incredibly strong sex drives, capable of astonishing feats of sexual energy, and seemingly obsessed by sexual urges during a large part of their waking lives. Powerful cravings also seem to characterize them, as in drug addiction, kleptomania, pedophilia, any illicit or illegal indulgence. They like the endorphin "high" or "rush" off of excitement and risk-taking. The serial-rapist-murderer known as the Boston Strangler was such a psychopath.

CHARISMATIC PSYCHOPATHS are charming, attractive liars. They are usually gifted at some talent or another, and they use it to their advantage in manipulating others. They are usually fast-talkers, and possess an almost demonic ability to persuade others out of everything they own, even their lives. Leaders of religious sects or cults, for example, might be psychopaths if they lead their followers to their deaths. This subtype often comes to believe in their own fictions. They are irresistible.

PRIMARY PSYCHOPATHS do not respond to punishment, apprehension, stress, or disapproval. They seem to be able to inhibit their antisocial impulses most of the time, not because of conscience, but because it suits their purpose at the time. Words do not seem to have the same meaning for them as they do for us. In fact, it's unclear if they even grasp the meaning of their own words, a condition that Cleckley called "semantic aphasia." They don't follow any life plan, and it seems as if they are incapable of experiencing any genuine emotion.

SECONDARY PSYCHOPATHS are risk-takers, but are also more likely to be stress-reactive, worriers, and guilt-prone. They expose themselves to more stress than the average person, but they are as vulnerable to stress as the average person. They are daring, adventurous, unconventional people who began playing by their own rules early in life. They are strongly driven by a desire to escape or avoid pain, but are unable to resist temptation. As their anxiety increases toward some forbidden object, so does their attraction to it. They live their lives by the lure of temptation.

There was another thread, a little while back that I tried to explain how a sadist is like s sociaopath. Actually, I think the sociopath is sometimes like a sadist. We decided to agree to disagree. We may do that here, too. But, there are so many overlapping traits with the human brain that it can be very confusing when trying to pin someone down to a sub type.

 

[Xelebes]

I'm not trying to say that these particular culprits are not sociopaths or psychopaths, but that they are still sadists.

 

[Private_Label]

Now, to someone who has no clue about what really happens in a BDSM or S/M sex relationship, I'd say that sounds like kinky sex taken to the ultimate step. But, because they have no idea what really goes on in our world, I bet snuff acts are grouped right together with our kinks.

I think most rational people realize that snuff movies are not so much about the sex as they are the "power trip" of the lead Bad Ass. Sort of like Vampire movies, or flicks about serial killers. It's more of a shock and horror component than a sexual one. Common sense says "who would knowingly give consent to be killed?" So I think most (vanilla) people can separate the kinky from criminal actions.

Even Wikipedia has an article on it, but does not mention snuff films being relegated to any one genre of film making, or one section of kink - other than rumors.

Straight Dope has this to say about porn related snuff films:

Porn films gone wrong. Ted McIlvenny, director of the Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality and caretaker of what is probably the world's largest collection of sex movies--289,000 films and 100,000 videos--says that in his 25 years of following the porn business he's seen exactly three films in which someone was killed on camera. In two cases the death was unintended: (1) a guy died of a heart attack while being beaten during an S&M scene; and (2) a man accidentally strangled himself during an autoerotic asphyxiation.

The remainder of deaths on film are lumped among the following: accidentally caught on tape by someone (Zapruder's Kennedy tape is mentioned as one), executions filmed by the government involved, realistic fakes, and home videos by psychopaths.

Yeah, the extremists in various areas may use it as a rallying cry, but a majority people will see it for what it is, an act of a deranged individual or group (such as the Manson family). But then the extremists tend to demonize everything, so the message is watered down before it even reaches a majority of the population.

Again I think this is another example of why one should not go out of their way to shock the neighbors.

Well, I'm confused where the toilet voyeurism thing fits into this, but I think you are possibly confusing the sadist with the sociopath or psychopath. A sadist isn't interested in killing. He gets no joy from killing his victims. His fun comes from inflicting pain. Now, if his vicitm dies because of his torture, that's not intentional. he preferrs his victims to stick around...more fun for him.

In that neither the victim watched by a voyeur or the victim of a killing act gave consent to the act and both may be classified as "sexual perversion," they are still both illegal acts. Both could be classified as sociopath, they both disregard the consequences of their actions (i.e. getting arrested and going to jail). The difference being that the voyeur may not be a psychopath, but the murderer may be.

 

[Private_Label]

added to the other message

 

[DVS]

I think most rational people realize that snuff movies are not so much about the sex as they are the "power trip" of the lead Bad Ass. Sort of like Vampire movies, or flicks about serial killers. It's more of a shock and horror component than a sexual one. Common sense says "who would knowingly give consent to be killed?" So I think most (vanilla) people can separate the kinky from criminal actions.

Even Wikipedia has an article on it, but does not mention snuff films being relegated to any one genre of film making, or one section of kink - other than rumors.

Straight Dope has this to say about porn related snuff films:


The remainder of deaths on film are lumped among the following: accidentally caught on tape by someone (Zapruder's Kennedy tape is mentioned as one), executions filmed by the government involved, realistic fakes, and home videos by psychopaths.

Yeah, the extremists in various areas may use it as a rallying cry, but a majority people will see it for what it is, an act of a deranged individual or group (such as the Manson family). But then the extremists tend to demonize everything, so the message is watered down before it even reaches a majority of the population.

Again I think this is another example of why one should not go out of their way to shock the neighbors.



In that neither the victim watched by a voyeur or the victim of a killing act gave consent to the act and both may be classified as "sexual perversion," they are still both illegal acts. Both could be classified as sociopath, they both disregard the consequences of their actions (i.e. getting arrested and going to jail). The difference being that the voyeur may not be a psychopath, but the murderer may be.

I never realized that snuff films were never really that available. But, when you think about it, they could be deep in cultish cliques that don't publish for the masses. And, to be successful, who could publish something like that for the masses?

And, I didn't know it wasn't actually considered a snuff film, if it wasn't produced for profit. Still, I do think there is a market of sick people out thre that look for this type of thing, if only for the sensationalizm of it all.

But, like one of the articles said...you could produce a fake one these days, with no problem at all. But, would that satisfy the market? Would you have to say "yes, it's a real snuff film" so they would buy it?

Seriously, I think there are people out there who do this for their own personal sick jollies and over time, they will be found out, as this Davis asshole has been. It's just too bad that there are innocent people that will get caught up in it all.

News reports said there were several videos in Davis' apartment. Time will tell if they can match the victims of the videos up with known missing people. At least one mother has said her daughter (missing since April) knew Davis and thinks she could maybe be one of his victims. So far, police aren't saying anything, one way or the other.

Thanks for the info, Private_Label.

 

[DVS]

We heard today that police have found another body. Well, police weren't talking, but Sherry Ballew told reporters that police asked her for a DNA sample, because they found another body.

Ballew has continued to insist that her daughter, Michelle Ricci, was the person in a photo distributed by Independence police as part of the investigation and that her daughter might have been in contact with Davis.

The photo, which was released on Sunday, was taken from one of the video tapes found in Davis' apartment. “I know that’s my daughter, and I haven’t seen her since April 3,” Sherry Ballew said. In the photo, Ricci appears distressed, with blotches on her face and a vein protruding from her forehead.

Police have said from the beginning that there were more charges to come in this case. It makes you wonder just how many videos they found in that apartment.

 

[DVS]

It's all turned out to be a very strange situation. When the two were caught, they said they were thinking suicide ever sence they made a run for it. That doesn't makde sense to me. Suicide isn't that difficult. I'd say they were either bluffing, or to chicken to follow through with it.

But, it seems they're talking to police and that's good. They both have admitted the second body is another of their victims. In fact, they both told police where to find it. I don't know if the ID is positive, but police is now saying the two are being charged with the same kind of sick murder of Michelle Ricci. The only difference is Davis said he burned her body after he killed her.

Among the items found in the pickup truck, when they were arrested were about 20 video tapes. Those and the ones police found in their apartment would total a lot of victims. But, if there weren't other victims, I'd hate to think what the videos in the truck could show...not going there.

 

[Guest]

It's all turned out to be a very strange situation. When the two were caught, they said they were thinking suicide ever sence they made a run for it. That doesn't makde sense to me. Suicide isn't that difficult. I'd say they were either bluffing, or to chicken to follow through with it.

But, it seems they're talking to police and that's good. They both have admitted the second body is another of their victims. In fact, they both told police where to find it. I don't know if the ID is positive, but police is now saying the two are being charged with the same kind of sick murder of Michelle Ricci. The only difference is Davis said he burned her body after he killed her.

Among the items found in the pickup truck, when they were arrested were about 20 video tapes. Those and the ones police found in their apartment would total a lot of victims. But, if there weren't other victims, I'd hate to think what the videos in the truck could show...not going there.

Have you heard anything else about the 5-year-old? Is she still in the hospital?