The ethics of seduction and price of being a trophy

[AAkasha]

I'm a 38 year old femdom in a 5+ year happy marriage with a man who submits to me (he is not submissive, he submits to me; it's fantastic). Never had any desires for poly (physical) but engage in lots of nasty phone sex/domination, online stuff, and love to make hot guys do various nasty acts on web cam, etc. (please no offers! This is an advice thread). My man is fully aware of everything I do outside my relationship with him.

Perhaps I am entering a "mid life crisis" of sorts; I fantasize more and more about having a trophy sub, a guy who is 18 - 22ish in age, really good looking, and a host of other very specific traits (when I mean specific, I can narrow it down considerably). In my fantasy, he'd really have no demands or expectations and know his role as "trophy sub" and in return I would shower him with gifts, affection, cash (if that's what he needed, for college or whatever) and guidance. I would not tell him who he could date, how to live his life or anything of the sort, and NEITHER of us would want any romantic entanglements.

Our interactions would be on the phone, online, and POSSIBLY in real life if the right time came and I knew it would not screw up either of our lives.

Here's where the ethics come in. I think I could search for months (I've been "loosely" looking for some time, nothing urgent) through online bdsm channels, or I could "pick up" or "seduce" an unsuspecting young thing in a variety of non kink channels. I have no doubt I could perk the interest of a lad in short order, blow his mind to some degree, and through trial and error hook a guy quite easily. What 18 - 22 year old doesn't have SOME fantasy of being seduced, desired by an older woman and then being used as a bit of a sex toy with no strings attached? After all, he could always say no.

When I think about this, I get serious conflicting feelings regarding the ethics of it. Even if the guy happily and willingly goes along with it and loves every moment of it, it still could perhaps fuck up his head. But whose to say a "kink aware" 18 - 22 year old couldn't just as easily be fucked in the head by it, if not more, by wanting more of the relationship, getting too used to it, etc?

What are the ethics of seduction when it comes to kink? How do you clearly negotiate in a moral way?

Akasha

 

[Auraka6669]

Very valid points.

The only thing I'd say is to leave out the trophy bit.... to start.

It could taint the mind, if someone is truly willing to go down that road, they'd do it without the "rewards" of being a trophy.

It'd just be a bonus.

Beyond that is making things crystal clear. There are diamonds in the rough.

Myself for instance. I'm 23 yet... No one thinks I am. Life forced me to grow up faster than others, so yeah. It's doable to find someone in the right head space. The fact that you're asking these questions means it'll take you a while to find what you're after... but it'll be worth it in the end. Leaving everyone safe and happy.

 

[JMohegan]

I fantasize more and more about having a trophy sub, a guy who is 18 - 22ish in age, really good looking, and a host of other very specific traits (when I mean specific, I can narrow it down considerably). In my fantasy, he'd really have no demands or expectations and know his role as "trophy sub" and in return I would shower him with gifts, affection, cash (if that's what he needed, for college or whatever) and guidance. I would not tell him who he could date, how to live his life or anything of the sort, and NEITHER of us would want any romantic entanglements.

Our interactions would be on the phone, online, and POSSIBLY in real life if the right time came and I knew it would not screw up either of our lives.

Aside from the cash, I'm missing the appeal of this situation to a "guy who is 18 - 22ish in age, really good looking".

Please do not take that personally. I have no idea what you look like, or anything about your seduction skills.

But the fact is, guys of the type you describe rarely have trouble getting laid. In real life, and often.

Aside from cash, what the heck could you possibly offer him over the phone or web to make it worth his time?

As for your question about the "ethics of seduction when it comes to kink", my personal response is: don't break the age laws, don't lie, don't violate the agreed-upon terms of your relationship, and don't ignore the safeword.

Everything else shifts out of the realm of ethics, and into the realms of practicality, mutual self interest, and give & take.

 

[Marquis]

Aside from the cash, I'm missing the appeal of this situation to a "guy who is 18 - 22ish in age, really good looking".

Please do not take that personally. I have no idea what you look like, or anything about your seduction skills.

But the fact is, guys of the type you describe rarely have trouble getting laid. In real life, and often.

Aside from cash, what the heck could you possibly offer him over the phone or web to make it worth his time?

Game is game.

I don't know AAkasha, but she sounds confident enough, which is generally the only requirement.

As for your question about the "ethics of seduction when it comes to kink", my personal response is: don't break the age laws, don't lie, don't violate the agreed-upon terms of your relationship, and don't ignore the safeword.

Everything else shifts out of the realm of ethics, and into the realms of practicality, mutual self interest, and give & take.

Agreed.

It's nice to have a firm sense of ethical standards, but I think we often take that to the point where we ignore the... for lack of a better word, sovereignty of other individuals.

Even the finest hypnotists can only employ the power of suggestion.

It's not hard to leave someone feeling bamboozled and it's easy for a dominant to become evil in the eyes of their sub as a defense mechanism.

I keep my conscience clear by being as honest as possible. No direct lies is fairly easy, but going the extra step to make a real effort to ensure the other person understands my perspective helps me sleep at night.

If they choose to feel victimized after that, let them. For some people, playing the victim is what they do best.

 

[AAkasha]

Aside from the cash, I'm missing the appeal of this situation to a "guy who is 18 - 22ish in age, really good looking".

Please do not take that personally. I have no idea what you look like, or anything about your seduction skills.

But the fact is, guys of the type you describe rarely have trouble getting laid. In real life, and often.

Aside from cash, what the heck could you possibly offer him over the phone or web to make it worth his time?

As for your question about the "ethics of seduction when it comes to kink", my personal response is: don't break the age laws, don't lie, don't violate the agreed-upon terms of your relationship, and don't ignore the safeword.

Everything else shifts out of the realm of ethics, and into the realms of practicality, mutual self interest, and give & take.

Let me clarify that the gifts of cash, or money itself, are not to buy the guy, but to satisfy my OWN fetish for that kind of thing. If I wanted a straight pay for play gig I get an escort.

What could I offer aside from cash? I guess I didn't really think of rejection as a possibility. While what I look like or what I do might have something to do with it, I think it's mostly because I've been engaged in this act of "seducing the male" since I was a teen - it's what I enjoy doing. I am pretty good at pushing buttons and know how to make men tick. I know how to find the ones that will respond to it.

It's really more a matter of identifying the kind of guy that has buttons to push and then going on instinct. I think there are plenty of men in the category of 18 - 22, very good looking, educated, articulate, athletic, passionate -- but relatively innocent, at least when it comes to kink.

Akasha

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hmm, I'm thinking that if you are offering to shower the guy with material rewards, it could be you are the one who becomes enslaved and possibly used. It has nothing to do with your ability to seduce a younger man, it has to do with the way you approach the whole experience as in using money and gifts as enticement. Male PYL's try this also and invariably they end up complainging they can't find someone genuinly into them for who they are, not to mention D/s. My experience with younger men in that age group is that there are some very real gems to be found who are more than willing and able to submit to the extreme without any thought or need for material gain...only problem they do have is that they do want at some point to have a real relationship with the woman they are involved with, or a woman of their choice, and at that stage it becomes an issue of either them choosing to explore that side, or our telling them we think it better for them that they take some time out to explore and/or think about how they might best be fulfilled in a relationship. My biggest problem is we have met 2, possibly 3 young men who would have made any Domme more than happy, but we are not in a position to offer them more than what we considered from the beginning.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I don't understand the ethical hang up.

Are you going to break his little heart?

That's part of being 18-22. Whatev.

 

[JMohegan]

It's really more a matter of identifying the kind of guy that has buttons to push and then going on instinct. I think there are plenty of men in the category of 18 - 22, very good looking, educated, articulate, athletic, passionate -- but relatively innocent, at least when it comes to kink.

Your comment about the right buttons to push makes me realize that a latent submissive fitting this description may find "being used as a sex toy" over the phone or web more appealing than physical contact in some situations.

In any case, Marquis is a hell of lot closer to the age group in question than I am. If he thinks it's feasible, I stand corrected on my earlier pessimism.

 

[Netzach]

I don't mean that in a cavalier way like you're being unreasonable, I just find it hysterically funny that a woman would consider the long range impact whereas just about any man would feel entitled to have a relationship in which needs are met, itches are scratched, and boundaries are clear.

God knows I've been happier since being perfectly fine in such arrangements rather than wondering about the ethical implications of attraction.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Game is game....

If they choose to feel victimized after that, let them. For some people, playing the victim is what they do best.

OMG... Marquis, sometimes you're my freaking HERO! *LOL* Even if you are a young'un! You have a grasp of human nature that many folks 2 and 3 times your age lack. And the language skills to articulate that so well! Bravo!

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... In my fantasy, he'd really have no demands or expectations and know his role as "trophy sub" and in return I would shower him with gifts, affection, cash (if that's what he needed, for college or whatever) and guidance. I would not tell him who he could date, how to live his life or anything of the sort, and NEITHER of us would want any romantic entanglements.

Why do I have this almost uncontrollable urge to sing ? ? ? ?

I'm just a gigilo
Everywhere I go
People know the part I'm playing...

Paid for every dance,
Selling each romance,
Everynight some heart betraying...

There will come a day,
When youth will pass away,
And what will they say about me?

When the end comes I know
I was just a gigilo.
Life goes on...
Without me!

 

[Marquis]

OMG... Marquis, sometimes you're my freaking HERO! *LOL* Even if you are a young'un! You have a grasp of human nature that many folks 2 and 3 times your age lack. And the language skills to articulate that so well! Bravo!

Awww, shucks EG!

 

[AAkasha]

I don't mean that in a cavalier way like you're being unreasonable, I just find it hysterically funny that a woman would consider the long range impact whereas just about any man would feel entitled to have a relationship in which needs are met, itches are scratched, and boundaries are clear.

God knows I've been happier since being perfectly fine in such arrangements rather than wondering about the ethical implications of attraction.

You are totally right, and sometimes I just want to slap myself and say who gives a fuck, limit it to a few months and whatever happens to the guy chances are he will look back at it fondly. I'm not going to intentionally fuck anyone up. But I have a pretty serious moral side that really nags me sometimes. It's the same voice in my head that would never let me take my 10+ year web site venture and turn it into a "money pig farm" and start demanding that "worms" send me cars and shit, even though I know some schmuck probably would do it. Just because I have some level of power doesn't give me free reign to use it to take advantage of other people for my own selfish needs.

I am a career woman and workaholic who generally loves her (vanilla) business side and am good at what I do; but when I suffer from a particularly bad week or month and hate my job I think in a huff "Oh I should just have male subs supporting me and never lift a finger" -- and I know guys that would be happy to do that. But there's no way I could live like that and not feel sick to my stomach.

Morals - gotta love them.

Akasha

 

[Netzach]

You are totally right, and sometimes I just want to slap myself and say who gives a fuck, limit it to a few months and whatever happens to the guy chances are he will look back at it fondly. I'm not going to intentionally fuck anyone up. But I have a pretty serious moral side that really nags me sometimes. It's the same voice in my head that would never let me take my 10+ year web site venture and turn it into a "money pig farm" and start demanding that "worms" send me cars and shit, even though I know some schmuck probably would do it. Just because I have some level of power doesn't give me free reign to use it to take advantage of other people for my own selfish needs.

I am a career woman and workaholic who generally loves her (vanilla) business side and am good at what I do; but when I suffer from a particularly bad week or month and hate my job I think in a huff "Oh I should just have male subs supporting me and never lift a finger" -- and I know guys that would be happy to do that. But there's no way I could live like that and not feel sick to my stomach.

Morals - gotta love them.

Akasha

Yeah, but we're not talking about exploitation. Exploitation to me, implies that someone isn't savvy to what's going on or capable of being savvy to what's going on. When someone has his/her eyes positively open throughout, it's not simply me and how I affect them in question. We're adults. Even money pigs are adults. Even naive young things are adults, and had better learn their way. Again, only women are taught to have this extent of a sense of reponsibility for everything other people do with them as the excuse.

I've got a profound sense of morality and boundaries, lest it seem I'm amoral. They just allow for other people to make mistakes freely and acknowledge that I can't and mustn't control everyone around me, there IS a finite end to my desire for control.

I don't have such a profound sense of the power I have over human beings who don't WANT me to have that power that I feel responsibility to the parental extent. And, frankly, some heartbreak in the mid 20's has made me a much better person.

I'm an artist. I am happy to say that art is as much of my income as phone sessions are and more than face to face sessions ever were when I did them. And the men supporting you, particularly as money slaves thing is way way harder than making money with art. Which is not known for ease of cashing in.

 

[usana]

It could taint the mind, if someone is truly willing to go down that road, they'd do

It could taint the mind, if someone is truly willing to go down that road, they'd do it without the "rewards" of being a trophy.

It'd just be a bonus.