The Essential Handbook of Victorian Etiquette

[Goldie Munro]

Croquet parties are very fashionable and are a healthful, pleasant means of diversion. The essentials necessary to make the game pleasant are good grounds that can be shaded, and clean, comfortable, cool seats.


It is the duty of the gentlemen to be ever attentive to the ladies.

Oh I love croquet! Its fast and can even be violent!

 

[glynndah]

If it be a picnic, the gentlemen will carry the luncheon, erect the swings, sonstruct the tables, bring the water and provide the fuel for boiling the tea. In gathering nuts, they will climb the trees, do the shaking, carry the nuts and assist the ladies across the streets and over the fences.

 

[Goldie Munro]

If it be a picnic, the gentlemen will carry the luncheon, erect the swings, sonstruct the tables, bring the water and provide the fuel for boiling the tea. In gathering nuts, they will climb the trees, do the shaking, carry the nuts and assist the ladies across the streets and over the fences.

Fences and nuts? Bad combination!

 

[matriarch]

Etiquette in the Street

Courtesy requires the return of all civil greetings--those of servants included. Only the most serious causes can justify "a cut".

In bowing, the head should be best; a mere lowering of the eyelids, affected by some people, is rude; but etiquette does not permit a familiar nod, except between business men, or very intimate friends. In passing and repassing on a public promenade or drive, bows are exchanged only at the first meeting.

In carrying canes, umbrellas, and packages, care should be taken that they do not inconvenience others.

In meeting on a street crossing, gentlemen should make way for ladies, and younger persons for older ones.

Ladies and gentlemen, when meeting on the sidewalk, should always pass to the right.

In the evening or whenever safety may require, a gentleman should give a lady his arm.

A gentleman may take two ladies upon his arms, but under no circumstances should the lady take the arms of two gentlemen.

Lady and gentleman crossing on streetA gentleman will assist a lady over from an omnibus or carriage, without waiting for the formality of an introduction.

No gentleman will smoke when walking with or standing in the presence of a lady standing in the street.

No gentleman should stand on the street corners, steps of hotels, or other public places and make remarks about ladies passing by.

A true lady will go quietly and unobtrusively about her business when on the street, never seeking to attract the attention of the opposite sex, at the same time recognizing acquaintances with a courteous bow, and friends with pleasant words of greeting.

Victorian Etiqette

 

[Weird Harold]

A gentleman may take two ladies upon his arms, but under no circumstances should the lady take the arms of two gentlemen.

I guess that means that Dorothy in "The Wizard of Oz" is 'unmannerly' -- or do a tin man and a scarecrow have some sort of exemption to this rule?

 

[oggbashan]

I guess that means that Dorothy in "The Wizard of Oz" is 'unmannerly' -- or do a tin man and a scarecrow have some sort of exemption to this rule?

She's a hick from the country.

One has to make allowances for rural cousins until they have been exposed to Polite Society for a week or more, then they are expected to conform to normal civilised behaviour.

Og

 

[Vermilion]

My parents were dismayed to find that this was still necessary in Gibraltar in the 1950s, and that in Melbourne in the 1960s the rituals for a lady included appropriate times and events to wear hat and gloves.

my mother remembers her grandmother putting on a hat and gloves when she was holding a tea party at home so that she would appear in the same sort of costume as her guests who, of course, would have put on their hats to go outside!

Sometimes I feel a little sad that we don't get to wear fun stuff like hats and gloves w/o looking like a muppet, but then I have stomach-ache or feel ill and am so relieved I can go out in tracksuit bottoms and trainers and don't have to put on a corset etc!

x
V

 

[Vermilion]

Oh and picnics? I have a Mrs. Beeton somewhere that advises one how to create a light picnic luncheon for forty guests.

*FORTY*!!!

This includes a raised crust pork pie of immense proportions I might add.
The Victorians were very odd.
x
V

 

[oggbashan]

If it be a picnic, the gentlemen will carry the luncheon, erect the swings, sonstruct the tables, bring the water and provide the fuel for boiling the tea. In gathering nuts, they will climb the trees, do the shaking, carry the nuts and assist the ladies across the streets and over the fences.

"The gentlemen will..."

No they won't. No gentleman would lower himself to such menial duties. What are servants for?

I have a picture of a 1890s picnic in India. The ladies and gentlemen are outnumbered by their servants. The host lady's sole duty appears to be to pour the tea.

The guests are seated on heavy overstuffed chairs and settees, shaded by striped awnings. There are even a few carefully positioned pot plants.

Even today, some people travel to events such as Horse Racing and the Badminton Polo in chauffeured Rolls-Royces. Their picnic hampers come ready packed by Fortnum and Mason and the picnic is served by the chauffeur, or preferably by the Butler and maids who have followed in the number two Rolls-Royce. The right glasses for the drinks, damask napkins and table-cloths, and silver flatware are essential for the correct ambience.

One must be seen to do things properly.

Og

 

[R. Richard]

Really old boy, I much prefer to have the Butler and Maids follow in a older Bently. It just does not do to have the lower classes get used to too much luxury.

 

[oggbashan]

Really old boy, I much prefer to have the Butler and Maids follow in a older Bentley. It just does not do to have the lower classes get used to too much luxury.

One shouldn't admit to owning a Bentley. If one has 'old money', the carriage house has every Rolls-Royce the family ever bought kept in perfect condition.

Only parvenus have Bentleys. One might just as well admit to having a Jaguar.

Older Daimlers are acceptable because the Royal Family kept a fleet of them. But no Daimler after 1950 is possible. There isn't headroom for the top hat.

If a younger son wants a sportier model, then a Bristol would do, but he would have to park it out of sight of the main house.

LandRovers and RangeRovers might be allowable for touring the estate, but an older Rolls-Royce converted to a Shooting Brake is preferred.

An American automobile is just not cricket. Edward VIII bought a Buick and look what happened to him...

Og

 

[matriarch]

Oh and picnics? I have a Mrs. Beeton somewhere that advises one how to create a light picnic luncheon for forty guests.

*FORTY*!!!

This includes a raised crust pork pie of immense proportions I might add.
The Victorians were very odd.
x
V

Sky TV did a programme on this. Annabel Croft hosted the programme, which went over several weeks, and she flew all over England to get people/organisations to produce one item from the list of foods, and in the final programme, on a glorious, English summer day, they set up the whole picnic on a long table, and all those who had been involved, and their families, sat down to this sumptuous picnic. Beats cheese sandwiches and a packet of crisps!!

Bill of Fare for a Picnic for 40 People

A joint of cold roast beef,
a joint of cold boiled beef,
2 ribs of lamb,
2 shoulders of lamb,
4 roast fowls,
2 roast ducks,
1 ham,
1 tongue,
2 veal and ham pies,
2 pigeon pies,
6 medium lobsters,
1 piece of collard calf’s head,
18 lettuces,
6 baskets of salad,
6 cucumbers.

Stewed fruit well sweetened, and put into glass bottles well corked;
3 or 4 dozen plain pastry biscuits to eat with the stewed fruit,
2 dozen fruit turnovers,
4 dozen cheesecakes,
2 cold cabinet puddings in moulds,
2 blancmanges in moulds,
a few jam puffs,
1 large cold plum pudding (this must be good),
a few baskets of fresh fruit,
3 dozen plain biscuits,
a piece of cheese,
6lbs. of butter (This, of course, includes the butter for tea),
4 quarten loaves of household bread,
3 dozen rolls,
6 loaves of tin bread (for tea),
2 plain plum cakes,
2 pound cakes,
2 sponge cakes,
a tin of mixed biscuits,
1/2 lb. of tea.
Coffee is not suitable for a picnic, being difficult to make.

Things not to be forgotten at a picnic
A stick of horseradish, a bottle of mint-sauce well corked, a bottle of salad dressing, a bottle of vinegar, make mustard, pepper, salt, good oil, and pounded sugar. If it can be managed, take a little ice. It is scarcely necessary to say that plates, tumblers, wine glasses, knives, forks, and spoons must not be forgotten; as also teacups and saucers, 3 or 4 teapots, some lump sugar, and milk, if this last named article cannot be obtained in the neighbourhood. Take three corkscrews.

Beverages - 3 dozen quart bottles of ale, packed in hampers; ginger beer, soda water, and lemonade, of each 2 dozen bottles; 6 bottles of sherry, of bottles of claret, champagne a discretion, and any other light wine that may be preferred, and 2 bottles of brandy. Water can usually be obtained; so it is useless to take it.

 

[Weird Harold]

She's a hick from the country.

One has to make allowances for rural cousins until they have been exposed to Polite Society for a week or more, then they are expected to conform to normal civilised behaviour.

The Wizard of Oz came to mind because Dorothy -- as portrayed by Judy Garland -- is almost a caricature of a polite, well-mannered young lady; even when the Movie was first released, she was far more polite than than the general populace of America.

It just struck me as funny that such a paragon of good manners should commit such a faux pas as taking two gntlemen's arms at the same time.

 

[oggbashan]

The Wizard of Oz came to mind because Dorothy -- as portrayed by Judy Garland -- is almost a caricature of a polite, well-mannered young lady; even when the Movie was first released, she was far more polite than than the general populace of America.

It just struck me as funny that such a paragon of good manners should commit such a faux pas as taking two gntlemen's arms at the same time.

Rural cousins may be polite, and have good manners by their own standards, but they lack the polish that good society imparts. Much will be forgiven in the first week or so, but their host and hostess should hint the way to proper civilised behaviour. Etiquette is really the art of making other people feel comfortable in company. A courteous person would show the rural cousin how to conduct themself by gentle instruction but never by public reproof.

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second is a paragon of courtesy. She tries to make everyone she meets comfortable in the encounter even if their behaviour does not conform to the norms of polite UK society. Her late mother, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother however, was most insistent on proper behaviour and would cut anyone making the slightest error. Her Majesty's grandfather was also strict by modern standards if slightly less so than his father.

None of the House of Windsor came close to the rigid formality required at the Prussian Court, and even that Court was exceeded by the Bourbon Kings of France.

Modern monarchy is much more forgiving than their predecessors. Make a mistake at my Court (as King Henry VIII) and you would be thrown in a dungeon at the Tower.

Og

 

[Stella_Omega]

I got this book for Christmas. It was "adapted directly from material written by Professor Thomas F. Hill from 1873 and 1890" - but since the foreward quoes Monty Python, I'll bet there was a bit of judicious editing involved.

General Rules of Etiquette (of particular interest to the AH)

1. Never wantonly frighten others.
2. Never make yourself the hero of your own story.
3. Never call attention to the features or form of anyone present.
4. Never seem to notice a scar, deformity or defect of anyone present.
5. Do not use profanity, vulgar terms or words of double meaning that will bring the blush to any person.
6. Never will a gentleman allude to conquests which he may have made with ladies.
7. Love letters should be written with the utmost regard for perfection. An ungrammatical expression, or word improperly spelled, may seriously interfere with the writer's prospects, by being turned to ridicule.

There is also an interesting section about picking a mate called "Peculiarites Suitable for Each Other".

I'll never be a REAL gentleman...

Except for number 5, that I can do. There's no way I'd want anything to interfere with my prospects, and thank heaven for spellcheck.