The Double-Space

[CopperSkink]

No, not between paragraphs, but between sentences. I'm seeing it quite a bit in my editing. Back in my senior year in high school, I was told that method was used for a certain font whose characters all enjoyed equidistance, and now that the font has fallen out of use, so has the practice.

And yet.

Rulings? Opinions? What do you do about the space between sentence? Single, or double?

 

[sr71plt]

You mean character spaces after a terminal punctuation? This is not done in either printing (has never been done in book printing) or the computer. It came and went with the typewriter era, and people who don't understand why it was done in the typewriter era are still doing it in their computerized work.

In printing, the space after terminal punctuation and before the next sentence is a distance a bit longer (the extra width of an "el" slug--which is a width of the printing letter "L") than a single character space on a typewriter (where all letters and all spaces were exactly the same length). To arrive at the approximate equal visual distance, the typewriter required two full spaces after the terminal period. Neither printing nor the computer need this to be done; they both manage the proper extra space automatically now.

There are several procedures that were required by the limiting typewriter that printing and the computer obviate (and writers don't seem to understand were a transitory requirement).

So, in computerized copy, just one space after a period. (And if manuscripts come into the publishing house with the two spaces, they have to be stripped down from that to go into the printing process.)

For a full discussion of these, see Robin Williams's (no, not the comedian) companion books The PC Is Not a Typewriter and The MAC Is Not a Typewriter.

The font you mention is Courier (each character and space set in the exact same width--is called a nonproportional font).

 

[_Lynn_]

You mean character spaces after a terminal punctuation? This is not done in either printing (has never been done in book printing) or the computer. It came and went with the typewriter era, and people who don't understand why it was done in the typewriter era are still doing it in their computerized work.

In printing, the space after terminal punctuation and before the next sentence is a distance a bit longer (the extra width of an "el" slug--which is a width of the printing letter "L") than a single character space on a typewriter (where all letters and all spaces were exactly the same length). To arrive at the approximate equal visual distance, the typewriter required two full spaces after the terminal period. Neither printing nor the computer need this to be done; they both manage the proper extra space automatically now.

There are several procedures that were required by the limiting typewriter that printing and the computer obviate (and writers don't seem to understand were a transitory requirement).

So, in computerized copy, just one space after a period. (And if manuscripts come into the publishing house with the two spaces, they have to be stripped down from that to go into the printing process.)

For a full discussion of these, see Robin Williams's (no, not the comedian) companion books The PC Is Not a Typewriter and The MAC Is Not a Typewriter.

The font you mention is Courier (each character and space set in the exact same width--is called a nonproportional font).

Gee, all I knew was that the answer was one.

*adding more research to my never-ending to-do list so I can explain too*

 

[hellguy]

Well, I don't know about all of the history. I can tell you that in my department we have to double space EVERY memo. Period. No discussion. The format never changes. Ever. It's a pain in the ass if you forget and have to go back through a five page document and correct it.

 

[_Lynn_]

Well, I don't know about all of the history. I can tell you that in my department we have to double space EVERY memo. Period. No discussion. The format never changes. Ever. It's a pain in the ass if you forget and have to go back through a five page document and correct it.

But that's company policy you're talking about, not fiction writing.

 

[sr71plt]

Gee, all I knew was that the answer was one.

Yeah, but I can always hope that the "why" helps make it sink in.

The place where I was managing editor once bought the complete production system of a major going-defunct newspaper to tide our production systems over until we could get a custom-made production system made. In order to get our business done we had to change all sorts of our procedures and products to fit into the newspaper system. I went off on a year's boondoggle and came back to advance planning of our custom-made system that was being planned to replicate our temporary system that didn't do a lot of things we wanted rather than creating a system to do what we wanted and produce the products we wanted.

The typewriter era was the same whamp-to-the-head for book publishing that this experience of mine was. The typewriter forced us to do a lot of things that printing never did and never wanted to do (i.e., showing italics by underlining)--but that the computer can accommodate. And half of the writers in the system are still stuck on typewriter procedures two decades after computers took over.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, I don't know about all of the history. I can tell you that in my department we have to double space EVERY memo. Period. No discussion. The format never changes. Ever. It's a pain in the ass if you forget and have to go back through a five page document and correct it.

See, you just can't kill that temporary limiting typewriter era.

 

[CopperSkink]

Holy fuck; hate to imagine that board review. "Jenkins, you've done some good work for this company over the last twenty-scheven-haif years, but your memo just doesn't have enough double-spaces. Why, just yesterday, I was halfway through reading one when I saw a single space. I had to send it back, and it threw off my entire day. I'm sorry, but we're gonna have to let you go."

I'm curious to know how many other editors come across this issue, and what they do about it. Me, I don't feel like fixing each sentence, and I don't feature writing back to the author with a cryptic, "Cool story, bro, only you'll have to knock off the double-space fetish or else the site will reject it."

It looks off, sure, but it's not quite the same thing as a dangling participial, right?

 

[_Lynn_]

Yeah, but I can always hope that the "why" helps make it sink in.

The place where I was managing editor once bought the complete production system of a major going-defunct newspaper to tide our production systems over until we could get a custom-made production system made. In order to get our business done we had to change all sorts of our procedures and products to fit into the newspaper system. I went off on a year's boondoggle and came back to advance planning of our custom-made system that was being planned to replicate our temporary system that didn't do a lot of things we wanted rather than creating a system to do what we wanted and produce the products we wanted.

The typewriter era was the same whamp-to-the-head for book publishing that this experience of mine was. The typewriter forced us to do a lot of things that printing never did and never wanted to do (i.e., showing italics by underlining)--but that the computer can accommodate. And half of the writers in the system are still stuck on typewriter procedures two decades after computers took over.

An editor I had here told me I needed to use two spaces. What did I know then? I figured if he was editing, he must be telling me the right way. Many others had the same editor too. Then I learned the correct way.

But yeah, old-school ways tend to hang in there.

 

[driphoney]

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. It was very interesting.

 

[sr71plt]

Me, I don't feel like fixing each sentence,

Click on replace. Pull up "Special." Put two character spaces in the top box and one in the bottom box. Click Replace. Whole manuscript done. I can't tell you how many times I have to do this in a month. Takes what, 10 seconds? You don't have to say anything at all to the author.

 

[_Lynn_]

Click on replace. Pull up "Special." Put two character spaces in the top box and one in the bottom box. Click Replace. Whole manuscript done. I can't tell you how many times I have to do this in a month. Takes what, 10 seconds? You don't have to say anything at all to the author.

Or you could explain that to the author, let them change it, and write their next piece with one space instead of two.

 

[sr71plt]

Or you could explain that to the author, let them change it, and write their next piece with one space instead of two.

Naw, I've given up on that. Every time I've sent an edit to an author and explained why a change was made like this, if they add any material to it, they make exactly the same mistakes (by publishing standards) they made in the original but accepted as changes. Authors are either universally dense on style or have a "let the editor fix it" attitude.

I'd complain, but it keeps me in business. I get paid by the hour usually. The more I have to clean up, the more I make.

Even on this thread, we can see how hard it is to drive a stake through the heart of a simple little "we no longer have to do that because the typewriter is dead" point.

(Should we take a poll on how many authors--and agents even--still insist that italics in manuscripts have to be underlines instead? Yet another practice forced by the limiting typewriter. )

 

[_Lynn_]

Naw, I've given up on that. Every time I've sent an edit to an author and explained why a change was made like this, if they add any material to it, they make exactly the same mistakes (by publishing standards) they made in the original but accepted as changes. Authors are either universally dense on style or have a "let the editor fix it" attitude.

I'd complain, but it keeps me in business. I get paid by the hour usually. The more I have to clean up, the more I make.

Even on this thread, we can see how hard it is to drive a stake through the heart of a simple little "we no longer have to do that because the typewriter is dead" point.

(Should we take a poll on how many authors--and agents even--still insist that italics in manuscripts have to be underlines instead? Yet another practice forced by the limiting typewriter. )

*pondering* Am I dense or do I have a 'let the editor fix it' attitude?

I'll take door number three, please.

 

[sr71plt]

*pondering* Am I dense or do I have a 'let the editor fix it' attitude?

I'll take door number three, please.

Naw, you're the long-suffering editor.

 

[_Lynn_]

Naw, you're the long-suffering editor.

And my check is in the mail.

 

[driphoney]

Click on replace. Pull up "Special." Put two character spaces in the top box and one in the bottom box. Click Replace. Whole manuscript done. I can't tell you how many times I have to do this in a month. Takes what, 10 seconds? You don't have to say anything at all to the author.

And then there's the editor who put in the double-space and the author has to take them out. And I agree, nothing has to go back to the editor either.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

And then there's the editor who put in the double-space and the author has to take them out. And I agree, nothing has to go back to the editor either.

Yes, spacing is a matter of taste, rather than global rules. If an editor finds it easier to read a piece with double spaces after sentence ends, then (s)he will put a second space in. I reformat all items sent to me for editing to my preferred layout, including spacing, font, page size, line spacing, etc., and I use a macro to do it with one click. If the piece comes back formatted in a way you don't like, just do the necessary changes to your original. After all authors do go through edited texts and consider carefully whether they want to accept or reject each editorial suggestion, don't they?

 

[driphoney]

Yes, spacing is a matter of taste, rather than global rules. If an editor finds it easier to read a piece with double spaces after sentence ends, then (s)he will put a second space in. I reformat all items sent to me for editing to my preferred layout, including spacing, font, page size, line spacing, etc., and I use a macro to do it with one click. If the piece comes back formatted in a way you don't like, just do the necessary changes to your original. After all authors do go through edited texts and consider carefully whether they want to accept or reject each editorial suggestion, don't they?

Yep, and I accept almost all of them.

 

[_Lynn_]

Yes, spacing is a matter of taste, rather than global rules. If an editor finds it easier to read a piece with double spaces after sentence ends, then (s)he will put a second space in. I reformat all items sent to me for editing to my preferred layout, including spacing, font, page size, line spacing, etc., and I use a macro to do it with one click. If the piece comes back formatted in a way you don't like, just do the necessary changes to your original. After all authors do go through edited texts and consider carefully whether they want to accept or reject each editorial suggestion, don't they?

Then you have authors without a program such as Word, OpenOffice, etc.
With corrections/suggestions/comments right on the page, it isn't a matter of just clicking accept or reject.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, spacing is a matter of taste, rather than global rules.

Perhaps in the UK. Not in U.S. publishing.

 

[michchick98]

Click on replace. Pull up "Special." Put two character spaces in the top box and one in the bottom box. Click Replace. Whole manuscript done. I can't tell you how many times I have to do this in a month. Takes what, 10 seconds? You don't have to say anything at all to the author.

Now that's something I didn't know. When I edit someone, I take out the extra spaces as I read/edit. What a time saver that'll be.

Yes, I did look for something to do it for me, but could never find anything. Now I know.

 

[_Lynn_]

Now that's something I didn't know. When I edit someone, I take out the extra spaces as I read/edit. What a time saver that'll be.

Yes, I did look for something to do it for me, but could never find anything. Now I know.

I have Word 2007, so others may be different.

Word Options

Proofing

Open 'Settings' in the section where it says -- when correcting spelling and grammar in Word --

Box for 'Grammar Settings' opens

At the top it says 'Require'

See 'space between sentences'
1
2
Don't check

You can set it there along with other options.

 

[Guest]

Huh.

You mean character spaces after a terminal punctuation? This is not done in either printing (has never been done in book printing) or the computer. It came and went with the typewriter era, and people who don't understand why it was done in the typewriter era are still doing it in their computerized work.
...
The font you mention is Courier (each character and space set in the exact same width--is called a nonproportional font).

Wow. Every time I log onto here, I learn something new. I learned to type on a manual typewriter in school, an automatically carried it over on to a word processor throughout my life.

In the army, we tend to double space after terminal punctuation (another new phrase for me) because our regulations say to. I had never noticed that other people don't do it. However, now that I know, I will knock it the hell off and give my editor an easier time of it.

We're not all stubborn. I try to learn as I go. So no more doubles for me.

~Paul

 

[sr71plt]

Wow. Every time I log onto here, I learn something new. I learned to type on a manual typewriter in school, an automatically carried it over on to a word processor throughout my life.

In the army, we tend to double space after terminal punctuation (another new phrase for me) because our regulations say to. I had never noticed that other people don't do it. However, now that I know, I will knock it the hell off and give my editor an easier time of it.

We're not all stubborn. I try to learn as I go. So no more doubles for me.

~Paul

I wouldn't suggest not following written regulations of those who employ you.

The government also uses the GPO manual of style (officially, although most governemnt offices--especially outside the DOD--have instituted their own guidelines). The stylist for decades at GPO was a print shop foreman who never edited anything in his life--and the GPO hasn't done much updating at all since he was there.

So, the GPO has all sorts of rules that are of whack with the rest of publishing. But if you are working where they use as an authority, that would be your authority.

(Of course you could slip a copy of The PC Is Not a Typewriter under your boss' door.)