The Cruel and Inhuman Socialists…

[amicus]

Or…Socialism, the Golden Age of Rats…(I will give credit later)


The “Stanford-Benet” method of measuring human intelligence or, “IQ”, is not accepted by all as absolute methodology, while some do accept it, with modifications.

But by whatever standard, assuming human intelligence can be measured at all, it, as most things, functions on a “Bell Curve” of sorts, with those both high and low and a majority grouped in the middle.

The average IQ, depending on who you read, falls between 100 and 105.

Half a population ranks over 100, half, under.

A fair percentage measure at about 80 points on the IQ scale. For the sake of brevity, I would ask you to do your own research as to what someone with an 80 and below IQ is capable of.

That percentage, applied to the 300 million population of the United States, factors out to tens of millions of people functioning at that level.

In general, capable of unskilled or semi-skilled labor, barely educable; tens of millions.

Enter now, stage left, the ever humane, bleeding heart socialist and feminist, reveling in their 150 plus IQ, but suffering the guilt of the inherited privilege of intellectual superiority.

“We gotta take care of these poor underprivileged proletariat!” (Lower class)

We must build them subsidized housing to live in, and schools to attend! We must provide free medical care for them, socialized medicine, sacrifice the learned doctors for the good of the proles! Institute a forced, ‘fair and living wage’, to hell with the needs of the market place, the ‘proles’ come first! Oh, and let us not forget their values, let us provide classical music, and opera and stage plays, we can subsidize that also through mandatory confiscation and not only that provide employment for our starving intellectual artists and musicians! Yes! A win, win, scenario! Wunnerful!

Let us give them ‘food stamps’ too, and forced equality for men and women in the job market. Oh? Children? Ah, we must mandate child care for the working woman and her joyous contribution to the greater good!

Ah, the husband and father, no longer needed as the State provides all? Force him to support the child, hound him, garnish him, jail him!

Those poor, under privileged millions should know that they have a place in society! Regardless of their intellectual ability to compete, they should be comfortable knowing they have to be taken care of by the generosity of the greater good!

A wonderful class system, where everyone knows their place and is content with their station in life! Yes! Utopia is here!

Oh, those nasty capitalists, those cruel, heartless, money grubbing, greedy capitalists who have no concern for the downtrodden! They are the scum of the earth!

(But I like what they create and produce?)

Good; then we will regulate them and control them and they will produce what we want and when we want it!

But what if they don’t want to? What if they refuse?

Force them! They have no rights, rights are social constructs and we determine and define those rights, they will take what we give them!

“Socialism, The Golden Age of Rats” from an essay by the British Historian Paul Johnson and his metaphor of Soviet Collective farms: Grain grows and ripens and determines when it is to be harvested. The communal farm worker, having no vested interest in the crop, allows it fall to the ground where the rats consume it. The grain elevator, where it is stored, also unattended in disrepair, sets the table for more rats and rodents that consume the grain.

As per my assertion in an earlier post, Socialists are parasites, they produce nothing but consume everything.

By making lower class citizens dependent upon the welfare of the state, one effectively destroys their individuality (in the name of humanitarianism and the greater good), and relegates them to a class structure even worse the medieval Europe or Cast ridden India.

Socialism is dead, long live human individual freedom.

Amicus…

 

[Guest]

There's a full moon tonight.

Ah-woooooooooo.

 

[amicus]

There's a full moon tonight.

Ah-woooooooooo.

~~~

Ah, you could have at least criticized my spelling of "Binet", I left it just for you.



ami

 

[jomar]

Well, someone has to say it. You wonder sometimes if that 80 IQ person managed to get themselves elected to public office. On both sides of the aisle.

 

[amicus]

Well, someone has to say it. You wonder sometimes if that 80 IQ person managed to get themselves elected to public office. On both sides of the aisle.

~~~

Chuckles...there is that....

amicus

 

[BlackShanglan]

Only one question: what's the other option?

Before you answer, I should add a few observations:

I've spent time with people in the 80-ish range and have been in classrooms where they were being taught life skills. I know what sorts of things they can and cannot be expected to do well, and I know how sharply self-care abilities decline below that bar.

I've also been aware of the criminal records some of them had already established by middle school age, so I shan't be satisfied with an answer of "they'll work happily and peacefully at jobs that barely pay the rent and will never long for the pleasures of life badly enough to break the law to get them."

I've seen how many of the people I've met came from broken homes or, in the case of fetal alcohol syndrome, were disabled by the poor choices of their parents, so I shan't feel that "let their families care for them for the rest of their lives" is an adequate solution to their problems.

So. What's the answer?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Well, someone has to say it. You wonder sometimes if that 80 IQ person managed to get themselves elected to public office. On both sides of the aisle.

*laugh* The last great refuge of the village idiot.

 

[jomar]

*laugh* The last great refuge of the village idiot.

My village has had many sit on the city council over the years.

 

[BlackShanglan]

My village has had many sit on the city council over the years.

My old home town paper once ran a newspaper article from a hundred years back describing the insanity that was the city council of the 1800's. They observed, of course, how delightful it was that nothing much had changed, as that week in the 1900's we'd been treated to the spectacle of a female council member sobbing as two male members threw chairs at each other and had a punch-up in the council chambers.

The delightful phrase that still comes to mind is from the commentator from the 1800's. He observed that the representatives of the day appeared to have been "specially selected for feats of buffoonery" - a phrase my family members have kept in our vocabulary ever since. It's remarkable how much use it still gets.

 

[trysail]

So. What's the answer?

"The poor will be with you, always."

 

[ghost_girl]

Dear Amicus,

I read your post, and find myself wondering, what exactly was the info-rant truly about?

I once made a similar argument, about crime staticstics and relativity of IQ on a an imprisoned population, and it was pointed out to me, "yes, you have some valid points, your statistics seem valid, but what do you suggest we do about this problem? what can we do to make it that beings of lesser intelligence do not make such poor choices...

as for unskilled workers, I can be counted among those, by virtue of being a stay at home mom for 26 years. I am well versed in teaching, yet have no degree, I possess superb organization skills, yet am not qualified for a menial job as an administrative assistant.

I am an expert in early childhood development, by virtue of experience, not to mention, I am capable of feats of fantastic logistic and planning skills, yet I am an unskilled worked in many people's eyes. And there are those who assume that since I have no degree, and I am 44 years old, I must have an IQ less than 100, which is an unfair assumption.

Society, as a whole, punishes women who have chosen to stay at home and raise the next generation of workers who will pay into the social security system, and any type of governmental medical funds. so, I have chosen a way other than the traditional way of the "unskilled" empty nest mom who waits around for hubby to die so she can collect his pension and life insurance, of which he has none anyway,( like so many other "poor" Americans, I have no safety net, personal or private or government assisted to rest on)) and without a defined financial future to rely upon, I work construction.

So next time you see a woman with a hammer drill in hand, or working a chainfall, or a fork lift, or bolting up valves to a pipeline, dont make fun of her or think she is mildly retarded, she is probably making about 30 dollars an hour...and she doesnt have to endure the misery of being stuck behind a desk all day, catering to the every whim of some stuffed shirt who gets no sex at home, lol.

And, do not assume that all men who work construction are pigs, they actually respect a woman who comes to work. There are some women who get those jobs and expect to be given lighter loads because they are female. Most men I have worked with do not respect those women, but they know I can pull my weight 80- hours a week when needed, just like they do.

also, not all "unskilled" workers are as lacking in intelligence as most people think, some are forced into by making choices that seemed to benefit the children at the time, yet punish the women in the long run. I for one, would welcome socialized medicine, or some type of ENFORCABLE legislation that would prevent drug companies and the health industry in general from their predetermination of who gets treatment and who does not... do poor people deserve to be ill? I dont think so...

I cannot figure out, despite my obviously irrelevant IQ which was measured at only 146, I cannot figure out what the purpose of this thread is...

anyway, it was interesting to read

best wishes

g_g

 

[cloudy]

I cannot figure out, despite my obviously irrelevant IQ which was measured at only 146, I cannot figure out what the purpose of this thread is...

Welcome to debate, amicus style. He rarely has a point, other than to call people names if they don't agree with him. Well, let me rephrase that: if he does have a point its so buried in convoluted "logic," outdated beliefs stated as facts, and way too many ellipses, that its beyond recognition for all but those masochistic enough to wade through the dross.

Oh, and since you're female, you'll be brushed aside as irrelevant. Just giving you a little forewarning.

 

[jomar]

My old home town paper once ran a newspaper article from a hundred years back describing the insanity that was the city council of the 1800's. They observed, of course, how delightful it was that nothing much had changed, as that week in the 1900's we'd been treated to the spectacle of a female council member sobbing as two male members threw chairs at each other and had a punch-up in the council chambers.

The delightful phrase that still comes to mind is from the commentator from the 1800's. He observed that the representatives of the day appeared to have been "specially selected for feats of buffoonery" - a phrase my family members have kept in our vocabulary ever since. It's remarkable how much use it still gets.

That's a great quote. I imagine I'll pull it out in the next week or so. But it once again proves that "the more things change..."

 

[amicus]

Only one question: what's the other option?

Before you answer, I should add a few observations:

I've spent time with people in the 80-ish range and have been in classrooms where they were being taught life skills. I know what sorts of things they can and cannot be expected to do well, and I know how sharply self-care abilities decline below that bar.

I've also been aware of the criminal records some of them had already established by middle school age, so I shan't be satisfied with an answer of "they'll work happily and peacefully at jobs that barely pay the rent and will never long for the pleasures of life badly enough to break the law to get them."

I've seen how many of the people I've met came from broken homes or, in the case of fetal alcohol syndrome, were disabled by the poor choices of their parents, so I shan't feel that "let their families care for them for the rest of their lives" is an adequate solution to their problems.

So. What's the answer?

~~~

Wonderful question, Shanglan, absolutely wonderful, thoughtful, introspective and truly concerned.

Shall we exchange thoughts on the subject from our slightly different perspectives and perhaps add to each other's repertoire? I would enjoy that.

I would have to refresh, but I have read statistics of the IQ level of the criminal population, it is enlightening but I think those with interest should explore themselves.

There are so many, 'socially injured' people, young and old alike that are dysfunctional because of the things you point out.

I recall reading the horrors of mental institutions and orphanages of the past and I shudder at such things.

Here is an equation you may not appreciate: The 'human community' distinguishes itself, I think, by its concern and care of individuals in need, on a case by case, personal knowledge basis, in a small community of whatever origin, they care for their own.

In other words, a community creates its own moral and ethical standards by its actions and as such, those 'earned' morals and ethics are passed on and become tradition and culture.

We volunteer our services to fight fires and defend against floods, I have personally done both, myself, and I am heartened by the many others that give, freely, of their time and resources.

I know that 'begs' the question of modern man and urban society, where, through necessity, these services become institutionalized into Fire Departments and social agencies that meet the needs of a community of people.

In my unique and very fortunate career, I have come to know many fine people that work within the institutions, in fire and police departments, hospitals, mental institutions and such, and I know that most serve with honor and dignity those less able to provide for themselves.

I am also aware of the costs involved, the real property, the structures, the maintenance and the labor required to manage and administer such facilities.

My knowledge, although considered expansive by some, is miniscule in terms of the professionals in the field and insofar as practical suggestions, I am not qualified to offer any.

I am left with perhaps a metaphysical premise that guides whatever thoughts or remedies I may suggest and you know full well what that is; the primacy of human individual freedom and liberty as a foundation.

I do know, with certainty, as I asserted in another thread, that where society becomes dependent on the largess of the State and no longer is concerned with self interest, honor and dignity, such as socialism engenders, that bad things happen to innocent people, especially those who cannot care for themselves.

It becomes almost a religious thing, does it not? "Look after thine neighbor as yourself..."(paraphrase...smiles)

Let me leave it there for the time being.

Amicus...

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=ghost_girl]Dear Amicus,

I read your post, and find myself wondering, what exactly was the info-rant truly about?

I once made a similar argument, about crime staticstics and relativity of IQ on a an imprisoned population, and it was pointed out to me, "yes, you have some valid points, your statistics seem valid, but what do you suggest we do about this problem? what can we do to make it that beings of lesser intelligence do not make such poor choices...

as for unskilled workers, I can be counted among those, by virtue of being a stay at home mom for 26 years. I am well versed in teaching, yet have no degree, I possess superb organization skills, yet am not qualified for a menial job as an administrative assistant.

I am an expert in early childhood development, by virtue of experience, not to mention, I am capable of feats of fantastic logistic and planning skills, yet I am an unskilled worked in many people's eyes. And there are those who assume that since I have no degree, and I am 44 years old, I must have an IQ less than 100, which is an unfair assumption.

Society, as a whole, punishes women who have chosen to stay at home and raise the next generation of workers who will pay into the social security system, and any type of governmental medical funds. so, I have chosen a way other than the traditional way of the "unskilled" empty nest mom who waits around for hubby to die so she can collect his pension and life insurance, of which he has none anyway,( like so many other "poor" Americans, I have no safety net, personal or private or government assisted to rest on)) and without a defined financial future to rely upon, I work construction.

So next time you see a woman with a hammer drill in hand, or working a chainfall, or a fork lift, or bolting up valves to a pipeline, dont make fun of her or think she is mildly retarded, she is probably making about 30 dollars an hour...and she doesnt have to endure the misery of being stuck behind a desk all day, catering to the every whim of some stuffed shirt who gets no sex at home, lol.

And, do not assume that all men who work construction are pigs, they actually respect a woman who comes to work. There are some women who get those jobs and expect to be given lighter loads because they are female. Most men I have worked with do not respect those women, but they know I can pull my weight 80- hours a week when needed, just like they do.

also, not all "unskilled" workers are as lacking in intelligence as most people think, some are forced into by making choices that seemed to benefit the children at the time, yet punish the women in the long run. I for one, would welcome socialized medicine, or some type of ENFORCABLE legislation that would prevent drug companies and the health industry in general from their predetermination of who gets treatment and who does not... do poor people deserve to be ill? I dont think so...

I cannot figure out, despite my obviously irrelevant IQ which was measured at only 146, I cannot figure out what the purpose of this thread is...

anyway, it was interesting to read

best wishes

g_g[/QUOTE]

~~~

Harumph & Hmmm...I sense my reputation has preceded me in our first encounter, m'dear.

I am in fact and kind and gentle man, father, grandfather, lover of fine music and art, my garden always grows and my flowers blossom and smile in appreciation.

Most of the women in my life have been left with a smile and wanting more, I even had a dog once upon a time.

I have been a logger, a faller, ran a bulldozer and a backhoe, worked on highway projects and construction projects and have been intimate with the tools you mention and earned my own callouses along the way, served eight years active duty military, attended four different Universities and even came away with some pieces of paper....so...diss me if you, but get it right, please.

There are many things we could talk about, but if I may, a pointed question, just for you.

Please explain to me your moral and ethical justification for forcing a medical doctor to provide you with your socialized medicine. Let's make this personal, let us state that I am that doctor and I refuse to serve your greater good, as I prefer my own lucrative private practice.

Now...tell me how you gently socialize me?

Please?

Amicus the inordinate....

 

[Guest]

You had a dog?

 

[The_Fool]

You had a dog?

I know what you are thinking, don't go there.

 

[Guest]

I know what you are thinking, don't go there.

Hey- HE said it!

(It's a full moon, remember?)

 

[cloudy]

Hey- HE said it!

(It's a full moon, remember?)

http://www.rozylowicz.com/retirement/graphics/guadalupe/otherview/guadalupe-coyote.jpg

 

[Guest]

http://www.rozylowicz.com/retirement/graphics/guadalupe/otherview/guadalupe-coyote.jpg

Ah - wooooooooooo.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Only one question: what's the other option?

This always gets me expelled from vast right wing conspiracy meetings when I bring it up, but how about a very generous earned income tax credit? I'd like to live in a society where any adult who works 40 hours a week or more can enjoy a reasonable level of comfort and security. Say like, a 14x70 mobile home that's less than 30 years old, a used Taurus with less than 100,000 miles, an adequate health insurance plan, and a modest pension plan that's better than a fraudulent government ponzi scheme.

I might want to gradually phase this generous EITC in for people above a certain age, like 30. This is me playing social planner now and it's generally a dirty game, but the idea is to subsidize those hardworking "80s" to the extent they can enjoy that decent standard of living, rather than to give 18 or 25 year-old new, unskilled workers more money to buy toys and party with.

Bottom line: If you work hard to the best of your ability, and don't wreck your life with destructive habits, we are a rich enough society to be able to ensure that you can share in the blessings that our liberal, democratic, rule-of-law-not-men, free market system allows the rest of us to enjoy. The blessings of liberty.

 

[amicus]

This always gets me expelled from vast right wing conspiracy meetings when I bring it up, but how about a very generous earned income tax credit? I'd like to live in a society where any adult who works 40 hours a week or more can enjoy a reasonable level of comfort and security. Say like, a 14x70 mobile home that's less than 30 years old, a used Taurus with less than 100,000 miles, an adequate health insurance plan, and a modest pension plan that's better than a fraudulent government ponzi scheme.

I might want to gradually phase this generous EITC in for people above a certain age, like 30. This is me playing social planner now and it's generally a dirty game, but the idea is to subsidize those hardworking "80s" to the extent they can enjoy that decent standard of living, rather than to give 18 or 25 year-old new, unskilled workers more money to buy toys and party with.

Bottom line: If you work hard to the best of your ability, and don't wreck your life with destructive habits, we are a rich enough society to be able to ensure that you can share in the blessings that our liberal, democratic, rule-of-law-not-men, free market system allows the rest of us to enjoy. The blessings of liberty.

~~~

Ah, Roxanne...usually we just wave, en passant, with a small, non committal smile, by choice, I add, for spice.

Several reasons, the first and perhaps least important, is the huge bureaucracy required to administer such a program.

Secondly your assumption of a right to 'tax' income, something the founding fathers frown up and which took a still controversial amendment to change.

Thirdly, you seem to forget that 'values' must be earned, they cannot be given or granted.

Simply by noting that half the population has an IQ under a hundred, does not imply that I disdain those who do. Quite the opposite, I rather suspect that intellect is a curse, rather than a blessing.

Every human being capable of minimal function learns values by accomplishing them, if provided the opportunity to be free and choose.

There is great satisfaction in every human labor, even the most menial, that provides one with ones sustenance. I often think the happiest of all are those who become skilled at a trade they enjoy.

While the nature of those menial tasks has changed with the passage of time, no longer carpentry, sewing, cooking, preserving food, et cetera, a free market place has, is and will continue to provide employment for those who are good with their hands and display other admirable human traits, such as honesty and loyalty, integrity and consistency, something most intellectuals are absent of.

I think you must envision a time without the 'ponzi' of social security that took gramma and grampa out of the house. I think you have to envision a time when parents chose the level of education for their children and perhaps even 'apprenticed' them in a trade or skill.

I think you have to imagine a time where choice was indeed an individual prerogative and not a function of government.

You might just be amazed at what a free people can create in the absence of the direction of government other than to protect their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit.

Amicus...

 

[amicus]

Ghost__Girl "...Dear Amicus,

I read your post, and find myself wondering, what exactly was the info-rant truly about?..."

~~~

Dear ghostgirl....although I prefer not to call my well thought out presentations a 'rant', if it pleases you, do so, of course.

But what it was, 'really about'...ah, now, thas another thing.

The left...the democrats, the social democrats, the socialists, bundle 'em all together and there be not a nickels worth of difference...always claim a superior moral position over the right, by claiming how much they care for the downtrodden lower class.

While superficially it seems the socialists are truly caring of the needs of those less fortunate, they are not...not by a long shot...they want one thing and one thing only, power and control over the masses.

And they will promise whatever it takes to get that power and control.

So the purpose of this particular thread is to pre-empt the specious claims of the left of their moral superiority, a purposeful confrontation to expose the rotten core at the heart of the left.

A rational person, one respectful of human dignity and individual rights, teaches a man to fish, he does not give him either fish nor pole.

People who truly care about their fellow man, act to protect their freedom to choose freely how they live their lives.

Religion and Socialism know each other well, one gives salvation in exchange for sacrificing ones soul, the other offers security in exchange for freedom. Both a real bad deal.

Capitalism, human freedom promises only to give you the freedom to live as you choose without paying the piper of theology or ideology.

Thas wat it's all about....

amicus...

 

[xssve]

“Socialism, The Golden Age of Rats” from an essay by the British Historian Paul Johnson and his metaphor of Soviet Collective farms: Grain grows and ripens and determines when it is to be harvested. The communal farm worker, having no vested interest in the crop, allows it fall to the ground where the rats consume it. The grain elevator, where it is stored, also unattended in disrepair, sets the table for more rats and rodents that consume the grain.

Just curious, what incentive did subprime lenders have to assure people could meet their debt obligations without losing their homes? None apparently.

Course sombody is always willing to bail stockholders out, Savings and loan bailouts, automobile and airline bailouts, price fixing in gold markets, using monetary policy to keep wages declining and profits rising, now European banks trying to fend of the liquidity crisis precipitated by the subprime debacle.

Being that they're so superior and smarter than everybody and all, they really shouldn't have to compete like everybody else.

You know,the funny thing is, that through it all, the real economy keep chugging along because everybody else has an actual job, you know, creating wealth instead of just collecting it.


Ah Amicus, specially selected...

 

[Handprints]

Just curious, what incentive did subprime lenders have to assure people could meet their debt obligations without losing their homes? None apparently... now European banks trying to fend of the liquidity crisis precipitated by the subprime debacle.

Being that they're so superior and smarter than everybody and all, they really shouldn't have to compete like everybody else.

It certainly looked like none for a long time... Clearly their chief incentive was not to end up in the dungheap they now occupy. Equally clearly, they screwed that one up.

For information's sake: European banks (and other investors) with sub-prime exposure fall into two groups - the ones that know this stuff occasionally blows up and managed their exposure commensurately, and the ones who think if you stay drunk you won't get hung over. The latter group have something of a liquidity crisis, the former expected this day to come and are chalking it up as the occasional price of doing business with people with poor credit histories.

The ones experiencing a liquidity crisis are earning the enmity of their colleagues, whose bonuses are going to be the first thing used to fund any shortfalls. This crisis is departmental in nature, not bank-wide (unless your business is sub-prime lending) or system-wide. Will they get bailed? Maybe some of them will, if they're sufficiently connected, or if they can prove the people they lent to systematically defrauded them and there's no possible recourse (someone's drafting the brief for that argument already, I've no doubt).

Should they get bailed? Absolutely not, although the government should definitely make good my loss in bonus...

Regards,
H