The Credo of Fury: Why doesn't it always work?

[FurryFury]

Wherein I will state some of the ideals I live by. You will have the opportunity to state yours, pick apart my tenets and generally discuss principals to live or to not live by.

1.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16271010#post16271010

2.) If I am doing my best and I am trying not to hurt others (if they don't want / need to be hurt, yada yada, yada,) then it is no one else's business what I do to satisfy myself, be that hurting myself or not, except as it may impact them.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16278609#post16278609

3.) The Guilt Principle
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16296939#post16296939

4.) The world and all the people in it owe me nothing.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16331310#post16331310

5.) When in doubt keep your mouth shut.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16373409#post16373409

6.) When the level of fucked - up - ness in your life that you WANT to fix so badly is NOT fixable, fix what you can. It might help a teeny tiny bit and at least you'd been doing something at least mildly constructive if not more beneficial. I believe this helps me and could do so for others.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=35868874#post35868874


Fury

 

[FurryFury]

1.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Behave toward others as you would like to have them behave toward you, as in Of course I'll help him out; it's a case of do unto others, and I may be in the same boat one day. This so-called golden rule is stated in just about every ancient writing about behavioral precepts (including the New Testament, Talmud, Koran, and the Analects of Confucius). Among the earliest appearances in English is Earl Rivers' translation of a saying of Socrates (Dictes and Sayenges of the Philosophirs, 1477): “Do to other as thou wouldst they should do to thee, and do to none other but as thou wouldst be done to.” It is so well known that it is often shortened.

Who knows why this axiom does not always work? Who has one they think is better? Who likes this rule to live by?

Can we talk?

Fury

 

[graceanne]

1.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Who knows why this axiom does not always work? Who has one they think is better? Who likes this rule to live by?

Can we talk?

Fury

I like that one, and do my best to live by it. Unfortunately I, and others, are human, and not perfect. Sometimes you act in your best interest and not in the best interest of other people.

 

[FurryFury]

I like that one, and do my best to live by it. Unfortunately I, and others, are human, and not perfect. Sometimes you act in your best interest and not in the best interest of other people.

I agree, but there is more to why it sometimes doesn't work IMO.

Fury

 

[WindWarrior]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, doesn't really work all that well for me. I mean, not everyone likes to be treated as I do. If I started treating everyone around me, the way I wished to be treated, I would have ZERO friends. It's not my fault I would like people to be blunt with me. I'm often accused of bluntness - to the point of no return. So, I know that even if I enjoy it, most people don't want to be treated that way.

So, instead, I try to live by the very, unoriginal, and old axion of "harm none". Doesn't always work, as sometimes it happens unintentionally. But, I try to live with the awareness of others around me, and how my decisions and actions impact their lives. Most importantly, I temper my bluntness, and try to filter before I open my mouth.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm with WindWarrior, it is all very subjective. I for one am noted for being open and honest and not wasting precious time beating about the bush, and that is how I prefer others act also....don't feed me BS and expect me to read between the lines or take part in being one person in one context, another in another, and yet another in another depending who is around and what advantage it might be to hide behind masks and deceptions....that just ends up making me ill. On the other hand some people feel more comfortable being cautious in the way they talk, or agreeing with anyone and everyone so as to appear friendly or avoid conflict, and do not like someone being so open and straight forward...so when I treat them as I would like them to treat me, no matter how politely, they often take offence.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

1.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Behave toward others as you would like to have them behave toward you, as in Of course I'll help him out; it's a case of do unto others, and I may be in the same boat one day. This so-called golden rule is stated in just about every ancient writing about behavioral precepts (including the New Testament, Talmud, Koran, and the Analects of Confucius). Among the earliest appearances in English is Earl Rivers' translation of a saying of Socrates (Dictes and Sayenges of the Philosophirs, 1477): “Do to other as thou wouldst they should do to thee, and do to none other but as thou wouldst be done to.” It is so well known that it is often shortened.

Who knows why this axiom does not always work?

Hi Miss Fury.

The "do unto others" axiom does not always work, for several reasons.

First, as Windwarrior and Catalina have already noted, attitudes or actions that I might appreciate may irritate or offend you, and vice versa.

In addition, you are constantly forced to make choices that result in a violation of this code of conduct. A simple example might be continuing a phone conversation with a friend who is upset about something. She needs and wants your help, but if you keep talking you will be late for a meeting that can not start without you - with the result that others are inconvenienced by your tardiness.

Everyone has a finite amount of time, financial & emotional resources. Even if we all agreed on what constitutes helpful behavior, applying the "Do unto others" creed consistently is simply unrealistic.

Who has one they think is better?

A Jewish friend introduced me to the sayings of Rabbi Hillel, who lived in the first century BCE. Hillel said:

“What is hateful to you do not do to your fellow man. That is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.”

This is different than the "Do unto others.." creed, and frankly I find Hillel's version to be far more useful.

This is the moral code that I teach my children to live by. Ask yourself this question..... Are my actions causing grief to another human being? If the answer is "yes", then your behavior is immoral and unacceptable and you need to knock it off.

As with anything else, there are exceptions to this rule. But they are rare.

"What is hateful to you do not do to your fellow man."

Words to live by....

Alice

 

[FurryFury]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, doesn't really work all that well for me. I mean, not everyone likes to be treated as I do. If I started treating everyone around me, the way I wished to be treated, I would have ZERO friends. It's not my fault I would like people to be blunt with me. I'm often accused of bluntness - to the point of no return. So, I know that even if I enjoy it, most people don't want to be treated that way.

So, instead, I try to live by the very, unoriginal, and old axion of "harm none". Doesn't always work, as sometimes it happens unintentionally. But, I try to live with the awareness of others around me, and how my decisions and actions impact their lives. Most importantly, I temper my bluntness, and try to filter before I open my mouth.

Good axiom there Wind Warrior!

As you say, though these are merely things we aspire too. As humans we affect and sometimes even harm others. At times we don't even know we are harming ever or only years later.

Filtering before opening the mouth and tempering bluntness are both good things in my opinion. I'm never blunt in a raw way unless I know the other person can accept and appreciate such. It seems to me, few can.

Fury

I'm with WindWarrior, it is all very subjective. I for one am noted for being open and honest and not wasting precious time beating about the bush, and that is how I prefer others act also....don't feed me BS and expect me to read between the lines or take part in being one person in one context, another in another, and yet another in another depending who is around and what advantage it might be to hide behind masks and deceptions....that just ends up making me ill. On the other hand some people feel more comfortable being cautious in the way they talk, or agreeing with anyone and everyone so as to appear friendly or avoid conflict, and do not like someone being so open and straight forward...so when I treat them as I would like them to treat me, no matter how politely, they often take offence.

Catalina

I dislike beating around the bush and wasting time too. I never have enough time.

I don't expect people to read between the lines. I greatly dislike having to do so for anyone. I grew up that way, with people who at one time, might cut with words that were "honest" but at other times would say things that were not true at all and expect me to winnow out the true meaning behind the crap they said. It was confusing as a child and remains so as an adult. Luckily they have little power in my life now, so that has eased greatly.

I do avoid conflict though. When pushed into one, well, it can get ugly. Online that's not often a problem because the emotional and physical investments are rarely there.

Fury

Hi Miss Fury.

The "do unto others" axiom does not always work, for several reasons.

First, as Windwarrior and Catalina have already noted, attitudes or actions that I might appreciate may irritate or offend you, and vice versa.

In addition, you are constantly forced to make choices that result in a violation of this code of conduct. A simple example might be continuing a phone conversation with a friend who is upset about something. She needs and wants your help, but if you keep talking you will be late for a meeting that can not start without you - with the result that others are inconvenienced by your tardiness.

Everyone has a finite amount of time, financial & emotional resources. Even if we all agreed on what constitutes helpful behavior, applying the "Do unto others" creed consistently is simply unrealistic.

A Jewish friend introduced me to the sayings of Rabbi Hillel, who lived in the first century BCE. Hillel said:

“What is hateful to you do not do to your fellow man. That is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.”

This is different than the "Do unto others.." creed, and frankly I find Hillel's version to be far more useful.

This is the moral code that I teach my children to live by. Ask yourself this question..... Are my actions causing grief to another human being? If the answer is "yes", then your behavior is immoral and unacceptable and you need to knock it off.

As with anything else, there are exceptions to this rule. But they are rare.

"What is hateful to you do not do to your fellow man."

Words to live by....

Alice

Welcome back Miss Alice!

I MISSED you!

You get a gold star because you cut to the heart of the issue so neatly.

Graceanne what was the title of that book about how different people need different things to feel loved, appreciated and so on?

I need to reserve it at my library!

If I do unto others the way I would like them to do unto me, and to be honest, I mostly do follow this rule, then it doesn't always work because they are so not me.

I find this very true in conflicts with my daughter and husband particularly. They need different things than I do. It's hard to figure out exactly what sometimes because what they need isn't intuitive to me at all.

Everyone tends to see the world from their point of view, naturally. Sometimes we forget that other see things very differently.

In BDSM terms if I, who considers myself a sub were to treat everyone the way I wanted to be treated, it would often go badly. A Dom/me would hate that, a switch might be okay with it part of the time, a sub might be okay with it. However all subs are not the same. What might be mild to one might be extreme or bumping up against a hard limit to another.

I always try to be nice to others. I try to be honest but gently because that is what I prefer having being raised by people who used the "truth" as a knife and whose truth was, at best, tainted.

However, it's when I can figure out those special things that makes the other person feel respected, cared for, liked and loved that I like best.

For my husband that is making sure the sink is clean and empty when he gets home. It means listening to not only how his shift went but to things about his sports teams, endless (incomprehensible to me) computer talk and constant menu planning.

My daughter needs me to endure her throwing a fit and stomping off like a three year old. Then she likes me to knock on her door, tell her I love her and offer a hug. She prefers I not tarry too long there but exit quickly so she can deal with her rage in the security of knowing she is loved. It's also listening and participating in conversations about life philosophy, irony and sarcasm.

With my son that is "tucking" him into bed on days he feels tired or sick, cuddling and hugging him. It also means listening to hours of talk about video games and/or cartoons that I have no interest in.

Most of those things are not what I want or need nor how I would like to be treated. It serves their needs though and that is what is important to me.

I like your Jewish rule very much! I have that in my philosophy in a way. I will mention how soon.

Fury

 

[graceanne]

Graceanne what was the title of that book about how different people need different things to feel loved, appreciated and so on?

The Five Languages of Love

 

[FurryFury]

The Five Languages of Love

Thank you beautiful Graceanne! I now have that book on hold!

Fury

 

[catalina_francisco]

I do avoid conflict though. When pushed into one, well, it can get ugly. Online that's not often a problem because the emotional and physical investments are rarely there.

I hate conflict, but have been accused often of liking it simply because I do not shy away from having and stating an opinion or view that may not match someone elses. I think it is this thought pattern which discourages a lot of people saying what they feel on forums like this, because if they do disagree with someone's POV they are immediately thought to be provoking instead of the more likely having their own opinion. I don't think it naturally follows to have an opinion and not be a 'yes' person that a person is looking for conflict, more so IMO just the right to be allowed an opinion the same as the person who may have expected them to agree with theirs has.

Catalina

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Because my life can be so complicated I prefer simplisity and the beauty found there.

My thought...judge not yet ye be judged.

Simple

 

[FurryFury]

I hate conflict, but have been accused often of liking it simply because I do not shy away from having and stating an opinion or view that may not match someone elses. I think it is this thought pattern which discourages a lot of people saying what they feel on forums like this, because if they do disagree with someone's POV they are immediately thought to be provoking instead of the more likely having their own opinion. I don't think it naturally follows to have an opinion and not be a 'yes' person that a person is looking for conflict, more so IMO just the right to be allowed an opinion the same as the person who may have expected them to agree with theirs has.

Catalina

I agree that people should be adult enough and tolerant enough to agree to disagree in forums like these. As long as no direct personal attack has occurred but merely differences of view have been expressed people shouldn't get their knickers in a twist.

However, from time to time I do find that I feel singled out or lashed out at myself. I guess that's only human?

I tend to think I'm very accepting and tolerant of most things, ideas, people and so on. I just hate the feeling of being corrected when I have not done anything wrong sometimes. Instead of a person stating what they believe and leaving me out, you know? I hate feeling negatively judged too that's a big red button with me because I was constantly feeling that way gowning up. Nothing was ever good enough.

I guess we all have hot buttons and it's often surprising to find out when one has been pushed particularly when people were only trying to have a discussion.

Fortunately, for me, those times have so far been rare on this board. Thank goodness!

Fury

Because my life can be so complicated I prefer simplisity and the beauty found there.

My thought...judge not yet ye be judged.

Simple

That is a lovely ideal to live by! Yet at times, though I don't mean to I do judge, don't you?

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

Here is the next rule in my personal philosophy:

If I am doing my best and I am trying not to hurt others (if they don't want / need to be hurt, yada yada, yada,) then it is no one else's business what I do to satisfy myself, be that hurting myself or not, except as it may impact them.

Further explanation: The impact on others issue, I will have taken into account already. If I feel it would negatively impact my loved one's I won't do it regardless.

Fury

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Because I also value honesty I must say that I do.

*blushing & hanging head*

That is a lovely ideal to live by! Yet at times, though I don't mean to I do judge, don't you?

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

Because I also value honesty I must say that I do.

*blushing & hanging head*

*grins*

Ah, then you are human too! What a good and honest person you are! Yay!

Fury

 

[Mr. Mann]

Wow.

Spanking. Whips and chains. Cats Who Walk Through Walls. And socratic debate...

In my mind, the wonderful oak walled, English style gentlemen's club in my head just admitted a group of intelligent women and *really* relaxed the dress code.

Here we all sit (as before) in our comfy wing back chairs, fire roaring in the enormous fireplace, some Art Tatum lightly wafting through the aromatic pipe smoke as we sip our brandy... only now most of us are mostly naked... and there is someone standing with their nose in the far corner.

Intelligent discourse and kinky perversions. I am SOOO coming here when I die.

You ask why these axioms don't work.

I ask you to consider that in no part of the axiom does it contain any indication of what would result from universally apllying these maxims.

If it tell you to match your socks to your shoes, what will happen? What is the worse that could happen if you don't? Is it a general rule, or might there be exceptions? Why exactly IS it a "rule"? A rule for who? A rule for when?

It is nice to be nice. But some people aren't nice. "do unto others..." is a good rule to live by, but some people don't see the world kindly, and they don't interact with the world in ways we would consider kind. Sometimes it is best not to be nice. Sometimes being nice isn't being nice at all, depending on how you look at it.

As to to your business being no one's business but your own... Personally, I agree. But I've got a serious libertine streak in me. Again... some people view your business as thier business. In thier minds, what *you* do may effect *their* loved ones.

 

[alice_underneath]

Welcome back Miss Alice!

I MISSED you!

* hugs, beautiful woman! *

I missed you, too.

Because my life can be so complicated I prefer simplisity and the beauty found there.

My thought...judge not yet ye be judged.

Simple

Looking at it one way, your axiom appears to be an excellent example of a rule falling under the “What is hateful to you do not do to your fellow man" umbrella.

However, in my opinion there are many situations in which 'judging' is not only called for, but actually the hallmark of a good friend/companion/lover/whatever.

Even with casual acquaintances, the issue of whether, when, or how to judge someone's behavior can be complex.

We could probably all agree that walking up to a casual acquaintance and saying - "That is a really ugly outfit" - is unacceptable.

But what if you suspect that a casual acquaintance is involved in an abusive relationship with a guy? Should you suppress the instinctive urge to help another person, or speak up? The "right" answer clearly depends on a lot of different factors. But the key point is..... to judge or not to judge is actually a very complex question in many cases.

If I am doing my best and I am trying not to hurt others (if they don't want / need to be hurt, yada yada, yada,) then it is no one else's business what I do to satisfy myself, be that hurting myself or not, except as it may impact them.

Miss Fury,

This actually made me laugh (in an affectionate, not nasty, way).

Why? Because I know more details about your intimate life than I do about any other person on the planet (aside from myself and my Husband, of course).

LOL, Miss Fury! You make a lot of the things you do to "satisfy" yourself everyone's business! Or at least.... the business of everyone with an Internet connection!

~ smiles fondly ~

Perhaps what you meant to say was that no one has the right to criticize what you do to "satisfy" yourself. Since it is inconceivable to me that you would engage in anything but SSC activities with adults, then I absolutely agree with you - 100%.

Alice

 

[Recidiva]

A few of the things I try to think with:

If something isn't true for you, it's fine for other people to have different realities from yours. Truth for one isn't truth for all. It can still be true for someone else, and you just don't know another person's reality well enough to judge truth, even your own.

If people try to force anything on you in the pretext of friendship, morality or obligation, you don't have to accept it at all, whether that's insult, judgment or compliment. It doesn't have to force its way into your world simply based on someone else's force of intention. You have the responsibility to disregard mental poison the same way you'd avoid poisonous food.

Everyone is under the burden of humanity and all the ways a brain can go wrong and right. Give them and yourself credit for survival and continuing to breathe, and a high level of respect for just doing those things. Beyond that, unless you can create human life (which you probably can't), try not to do things that result in irreversable damage. You might have to, but don't lower other human beings from a status of respect in order to justify doing it.

It's the best policy to say "I don't know" when you don't know the answer to questions about death, religion, politics, parenting, relationships, etc. You don't have to agree with the people who think they know the answers. Sure, take what they have to say and listen, but professing you believe is deceptive. Humans tend to trust people that they don't think are lying, and believe in a force of passion in speech as if it were obviously true or someone wouldn't believe in it so much. Force of passion doesn't equal knowing at all. Sometimes it just equals coercion or a level of denial in order to accomplish an agenda, that it's dangerous. Take care to not allow your beliefs to justify harm to others or yourself in order to accomplish some idealistic goal.

 

[raven2]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, doesn't really work all that well for me. I mean, not everyone likes to be treated as I do. If I started treating everyone around me, the way I wished to be treated, I would have ZERO friends. It's not my fault I would like people to be blunt with me. I'm often accused of bluntness - to the point of no return. So, I know that even if I enjoy it, most people don't want to be treated that way.

So, instead, I try to live by the very, unoriginal, and old axion of "harm none". Doesn't always work, as sometimes it happens unintentionally. But, I try to live with the awareness of others around me, and how my decisions and actions impact their lives. Most importantly, I temper my bluntness, and try to filter before I open my mouth.

I think you have a good point there. Just like the Hyppocratic oath says "First, do no harm" There are always unintentional things that happen and if they do I am very sorry if they impact someone in a negative way. But if you are aware of how others think, there is a good chance that the unintentional things won't happen very often.

Btw, I see in your profile you have a Dobe. We have 3 and feel they are the best. Loyal and devoted and big mushes.

 

[FurryFury]

Wow.

Spanking. Whips and chains. Cats Who Walk Through Walls. And socratic debate...

In my mind, the wonderful oak walled, English style gentlemen's club in my head just admitted a group of intelligent women and *really* relaxed the dress code.

Here we all sit (as before) in our comfy wing back chairs, fire roaring in the enormous fireplace, some Art Tatum lightly wafting through the aromatic pipe smoke as we sip our brandy... only now most of us are mostly naked... and there is someone standing with their nose in the far corner.

Intelligent discourse and kinky perversions. I am SOOO coming here when I die.

You ask why these axioms don't work.

I ask you to consider that in no part of the axiom does it contain any indication of what would result from universally apllying these maxims.

If it tell you to match your socks to your shoes, what will happen? What is the worse that could happen if you don't? Is it a general rule, or might there be exceptions? Why exactly IS it a "rule"? A rule for who? A rule for when?

It is nice to be nice. But some people aren't nice. "do unto others..." is a good rule to live by, but some people don't see the world kindly, and they don't interact with the world in ways we would consider kind. Sometimes it is best not to be nice. Sometimes being nice isn't being nice at all, depending on how you look at it.

As to to your business being no one's business but your own... Personally, I agree. But I've got a serious libertine streak in me. Again... some people view your business as thier business. In thier minds, what *you* do may effect *their* loved ones.

*grins*

I think I like your mind! *Curls feet under knees and enjoys the fire.*

If the axiom were applied universally, I postulate that the world would be a better place overall. Why? Because, in spite of all the bad I have seen in people I believe the good is the stronger force. *smiles* Yes, I do. I believe that because I want to. I'm talking about individuals here not groups! I believe in the individuals being essentially good more often than they are essentially evil or toxic. Call me naive, or say that I am wearing rose colored glasses if you wish but I do believe that.

I agree that sometimes you need to step up and say, "No, that is not nice, not acceptable." I fail at that sometimes, because it doesn't seem to be polite to do it. I do try though. When I see unconscionable behavior to say something not just to others which is far easier but to that person, who is misbehaving in a horrible way, up front.

I agree that some think what I do might affect their loved ones. What I do in my own time doesn't affect the way I am on the job or their loved ones but I know they will see it that way. That is why I tend to be paranoid about my private information, as in address, name, face and so on.

Fury

* hugs, beautiful woman! *

I missed you, too.

Looking at it one way, your axiom appears to be an excellent example of a rule falling under the “What is hateful to you do not do to your fellow man" umbrella.

However, in my opinion there are many situations in which 'judging' is not only called for, but actually the hallmark of a good friend/companion/lover/whatever.

Even with casual acquaintances, the issue of whether, when, or how to judge someone's behavior can be complex.

We could probably all agree that walking up to a casual acquaintance and saying - "That is a really ugly outfit" - is unacceptable.

But what if you suspect that a casual acquaintance is involved in an abusive relationship with a guy? Should you suppress the instinctive urge to help another person, or speak up? The "right" answer clearly depends on a lot of different factors. But the key point is..... to judge or not to judge is actually a very complex question in many cases.

Miss Fury,

This actually made me laugh (in an affectionate, not nasty, way).

Why? Because I know more details about your intimate life than I do about any other person on the planet (aside from myself and my Husband, of course).

LOL, Miss Fury! You make a lot of the things you do to "satisfy" yourself everyone's business! Or at least.... the business of everyone with an Internet connection!

~ smiles fondly ~

Perhaps what you meant to say was that no one has the right to criticize what you do to "satisfy" yourself. Since it is inconceivable to me that you would engage in anything but SSC activities with adults, then I absolutely agree with you - 100%.

Alice

You have been missed Alice!

OMG! No! Saying that's an ugly outfit is so NOT okay! *gak*

However, it's also not, okay in my book to do much in the other situation you describe. All you can do is offer to be there for them and create an atmosphere of safety, caring openness, waiting for them to be ready to confide, seek help or change their lives.

I've had friends who mentioned suicide to me causally, or who I was sure had a husband fucking around on them, with family members even, or who I worried might be abused. I handled them all the same way and hoped that my love for them would eventually allow them to confide and seek life changes they needed. I've been pretty successful in that way. When they did make the changes it was because they were ready and wanted to.

I also always have my say once before they marry the jerks! Sorry, most of the them do marry jerks. I tell them as nicely as I can my misgivings, they brush them aside, then I help them make their dream of the perfect wedding or whatever come true. Later when he becomes unbearable and they can't rationalize things anymore, at least they can't say I didn't speak up once.

As to making my business everyone else's business, well I call that communicating and sharing and yes, I know I do too much of it. *L* Yes, I did mean they had no right to be critical of what I do to satisfy myself. I don't generally talk to people who tend to be highly critical, my glass is still overflowing with that crap, and I don't enjoy it. Ya know?

*chuckles*

Fury

A few of the things I try to think with:

If something isn't true for you, it's fine for other people to have different realities from yours. Truth for one isn't truth for all. It can still be true for someone else, and you just don't know another person's reality well enough to judge truth, even your own.

If people try to force anything on you in the pretext of friendship, morality or obligation, you don't have to accept it at all, whether that's insult, judgment or compliment. It doesn't have to force its way into your world simply based on someone else's force of intention. You have the responsibility to disregard mental poison the same way you'd avoid poisonous food.

Everyone is under the burden of humanity and all the ways a brain can go wrong and right. Give them and yourself credit for survival and continuing to breathe, and a high level of respect for just doing those things. Beyond that, unless you can create human life (which you probably can't), try not to do things that result in irreversable damage. You might have to, but don't lower other human beings from a status of respect in order to justify doing it.

It's the best policy to say "I don't know" when you don't know the answer to questions about death, religion, politics, parenting, relationships, etc. You don't have to agree with the people who think they know the answers. Sure, take what they have to say and listen, but professing you believe is deceptive. Humans tend to trust people that they don't think are lying, and believe in a force of passion in speech as if it were obviously true or someone wouldn't believe in it so much. Force of passion doesn't equal knowing at all. Sometimes it just equals coercion or a level of denial in order to accomplish an agenda, that it's dangerous. Take care to not allow your beliefs to justify harm to others or yourself in order to accomplish some idealistic goal.

First of all Recidiva, you are lovely! I adore this av!!!

You are so right about disregarding some people no matter what they thing they are doing! It took me a long time to learn that. Some people think they are being helpful, loving and instructive when really they are seeking to tear down your worth.

I feel that way about giving people credit too. I truly believe my parent and grandparents all did the best they could with the knowledge and experiences they had to work with. I don't begrudge them for what they did at all. I understand why they did those things. I also understand that their form of love it not what I need or want. I love them so much. I just don't always like them. I do respect their survival and struggles!

Oh I love to say I don't know! Too many people are afraid to do that. They are afraid they will seem stupid. They are afraid to not have concrete lines of knowledge about things, that in my opinion we can't know. *L* I believe otherwise. I am comfortable not knowing many things and still being able to enjoy life.

Force of passion can be dangerous. I agree! This is such good stuff. I'm enjoy the conversations we are all having!

Thanks to you and everyone else who has responded!

Fury

I think you have a good point there. Just like the Hyppocratic oath says "First, do no harm" There are always unintentional things that happen and if they do I am very sorry if they impact someone in a negative way. But if you are aware of how others think, there is a good chance that the unintentional things won't happen very often.

Btw, I see in your profile you have a Dobe. We have 3 and feel they are the best. Loyal and devoted and big mushes.

Indeed, I agree we will always do some harm even when we don't mean to but we can try to minimize it.

I think Dobermans are great dogs! We always used them for blood donors at the clinic I worked at long ago.

I want the entire Doberman movies set so my kids can see those old movies!!!

*chuckles*

Fury

 

[Purple Sage]

1.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Behave toward others as you would like to have them behave toward you, as in Of course I'll help him out; it's a case of do unto others, and I may be in the same boat one day. This so-called golden rule is stated in just about every ancient writing about behavioral precepts (including the New Testament, Talmud, Koran, and the Analects of Confucius). Among the earliest appearances in English is Earl Rivers' translation of a saying of Socrates (Dictes and Sayenges of the Philosophirs, 1477): “Do to other as thou wouldst they should do to thee, and do to none other but as thou wouldst be done to.” It is so well known that it is often shortened.

Who knows why this axiom does not always work? Who has one they think is better? Who likes this rule to live by?

Can we talk?

Fury

Could you quote for me the passage in the Analects of Confucius that you feel restates the Golden Rule? I am not familiar with such a passage. A major premise of Confucianism is that there are Noble Men (or Enlightened, or Actualizing, depending on translation) and Small Men- who obviously lack some of these qualities. The treatment accorded a person relates to their nature, not to your own desires. The Golden Rule strikes me as antithetical to Confucianism.

 

[FurryFury]

Could you quote for me the passage in the Analects of Confucius that you feel restates the Golden Rule? I am not familiar with such a passage. A major premise of Confucianism is that there are Noble Men (or Enlightened, or Actualizing, depending on translation) and Small Men- who obviously lack some of these qualities. The treatment accorded a person relates to their nature, not to your own desires. The Golden Rule strikes me as antithetical to Confucianism.

I was only quoting from a web site for that bit but a quick google search turned up the following:

Confucianism
"Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state."
Analects 12:2

"Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence."
Mencius VII.A.4

"Tsekung asked, "Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?" Confucius replied, "It is the word shu--reciprocity: Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you.""
Analects 15.23

I hope you like them.

Fury

 

[brioche]

I don't know if I follow a do onto others as much as I do living in a Godly way.
But before you all throw up your hands in disgust I was doing it before I joined the Church...
If I find a wallet I try to return it to its owner without taking the money, and that's a do onto others, I guess. Sadly, in some cases I have had the money taken from mine, but that doesn't change my outlook.
But there are other things I do that I do just because I feel they're considerate and don't expect anything in return.
Letting someone in when driving.
Letting someone go ahead of me when they only have one thing in the grocery line.
Picking up the Kleenex I dropped in the street, even though it is now soggy with grime, and throwing it out.
Telling the cashier she has given me too much change.
Throwing away the piece of paper someone missed the garbage with.
Teaching my students to respect the caretakers in the school and thank them.
Thanking bus drivers as I get off the bus.
Being polite to customer service people.
Not flying off the handle because the person doing your nails has drawn blood in a very inconvenient area and assuring her it's ok.
I guess it's all just about being a person I respect.

 

[FurryFury]

Being a person you respect, I like that.

Fury