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satindesire
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Oh geeze, sweetheart. How havest thou got into such a pickle?
First things first, you owe your loyalty to both friends equally. It's difficult if not downright impossible to give completely objective advice about something as emotionally hot-buttoned as affairs go, but I'm going to attempt to be extremely rational about this.
You've gotta talk to your girlfriend. When a person goes off and changes basically everything about herself all of a sudden, that's a reason to worry NOT EVEN COUNTING the affair. She's acting weird, not herself, she's being disrespectful and careless towards her husband. She may not even see it, and if her husband says anything she won't listen because he's too close to her to give her a suitably outside perspective.
She's obviously screwing someone else, but that's just half the story. Something's up with her and it's gotta be spoken about before it completely wrecks what's left of their relationship.
Tell her that you absolutely have to see her ASAP. Get her somewhere where she'll stay sober. Talk to her calmly, lovingly. Tell her you understand that things have been sort of rough between you two lately but her recent changes and the things you saw at the party make you scared for her and her husband.
Go from there.
The thing is, you can't help someone who doesn't wanna be helped, so if she's hostile towards you or just brushes it off, consider new options, like talking to her husband about her behavior again. You might not have to tell him about the text, although honestly...someone who displays their cheating outright like that is sort of unconsciously begging to be caught.
It seems like she WANTS to stop, but she needs a push in the right direction. Be that push, honey.
First things first, you owe your loyalty to both friends equally. It's difficult if not downright impossible to give completely objective advice about something as emotionally hot-buttoned as affairs go, but I'm going to attempt to be extremely rational about this.
You've gotta talk to your girlfriend. When a person goes off and changes basically everything about herself all of a sudden, that's a reason to worry NOT EVEN COUNTING the affair. She's acting weird, not herself, she's being disrespectful and careless towards her husband. She may not even see it, and if her husband says anything she won't listen because he's too close to her to give her a suitably outside perspective.
She's obviously screwing someone else, but that's just half the story. Something's up with her and it's gotta be spoken about before it completely wrecks what's left of their relationship.
Tell her that you absolutely have to see her ASAP. Get her somewhere where she'll stay sober. Talk to her calmly, lovingly. Tell her you understand that things have been sort of rough between you two lately but her recent changes and the things you saw at the party make you scared for her and her husband.
Go from there.
The thing is, you can't help someone who doesn't wanna be helped, so if she's hostile towards you or just brushes it off, consider new options, like talking to her husband about her behavior again. You might not have to tell him about the text, although honestly...someone who displays their cheating outright like that is sort of unconsciously begging to be caught.
It seems like she WANTS to stop, but she needs a push in the right direction. Be that push, honey.
Somehowyou
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Oh geeze, sweetheart. How havest thou got into such a pickle?
.
1 vote for Satindesire for best avatar! OMG is that really you? Wow!
Somehowyou
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My first inclination is to stay out of it and tend to your knitting. You may confront her and let her know that something is wrong and leave it at that. You may tell her - If she admits to the affair and this is more than a fling - that she owes it to her husband to come clean and leave it at that. Let her tell her husband and not you. 1. It's not yur business and you may get dragged into the drama 2. and if she returns to her hubby you may be made out to be the bad guy. A jilted hubby will accept any excuse to help mend his heart so watch out.
Sounds like the husband has lost her and you have lost her as a friend too. Time for both of you to move on.
Sounds like the husband has lost her and you have lost her as a friend too. Time for both of you to move on.
It seems obvious
that you don't view her as a friend anymore....so with no real relationship there it seems you get along better with her husband and you feel empathy for him, as does your own husband. You can tell her hubby that you sense his suspicions are valid without actually telling him what you saw.
It seems he deserves your honesty more than she does.
that you don't view her as a friend anymore....so with no real relationship there it seems you get along better with her husband and you feel empathy for him, as does your own husband. You can tell her hubby that you sense his suspicions are valid without actually telling him what you saw.
It seems he deserves your honesty more than she does.
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SweetErika
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I think you should probably do this, without giving her any ammo or advice (unless she asks for it). Ideally, sit down with her in person and keep it simple, like, "When you showed me and others your phone at the party, I noticed there was a text that could hurt you and your family. I'm really concerned about you, and I'm here for you if you'd like to talk."
It sounds like she's gone off the deep end and likely won't take you up on your offer for support. If that's the case, leave it at being there if she comes around and needs a friend. Her husband already knows something is wrong, and I think it's his business alone to investigate further if he so chooses and/or try to work it out with his wife (or not). You don't know what else she may be into, so absolutely do not relate anything that could come back to bite you later on to either of them.
Boundlife
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You said her husband already suspected an affair, so telling him would be nothing new.
Talk to her about what you've noticed. Watch her reactions for defensiveness.(If she puts up a shield you can't get any where) Consider suggesting counciling, somethings are too much for friends to help with, but you are the one there, so follow your instincts.
Good Luck, I hope things work out for you and her family.
Talk to her about what you've noticed. Watch her reactions for defensiveness.(If she puts up a shield you can't get any where) Consider suggesting counciling, somethings are too much for friends to help with, but you are the one there, so follow your instincts.
Good Luck, I hope things work out for you and her family.
swtrthnhoney
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I think SweetErika is right.
Obviously, she showed you (and others) the phone. Maybe she was giving an indication that she was out of control and needed help to regain it, or maybe she wanted everyone within eyeshot to know that she has given up on her relationship. I would try to talk to her about seeing the text (that you didn't want to see) and see if you can somehow mend your relationship with her. You don't have to compromise yourself in the process, what happened in the past can stay in the past- it has healed. Her situation/relationship is at issue here.
I wouldn't personally tell the husband and details about what you saw. Maybe let him know that you are also concerned and that you would like to reestablish your connection with her and go from there.
It's hard when people change and we don't know the reason why so we cannot begin to understand. Sometimes such drastic changes are a cry for help, sometimes they are a bent at reclamation of something they think they lost.
Obviously, she showed you (and others) the phone. Maybe she was giving an indication that she was out of control and needed help to regain it, or maybe she wanted everyone within eyeshot to know that she has given up on her relationship. I would try to talk to her about seeing the text (that you didn't want to see) and see if you can somehow mend your relationship with her. You don't have to compromise yourself in the process, what happened in the past can stay in the past- it has healed. Her situation/relationship is at issue here.
I wouldn't personally tell the husband and details about what you saw. Maybe let him know that you are also concerned and that you would like to reestablish your connection with her and go from there.
It's hard when people change and we don't know the reason why so we cannot begin to understand. Sometimes such drastic changes are a cry for help, sometimes they are a bent at reclamation of something they think they lost.
fgarvb1
We are in for it now.
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From what I've seen in life...
Stay out of it!
It will end up being YOUR fault and you will lose both friends.
They will join forces and turn on you like rabid dogs blaming you for the whole fucked up incident.
Besides that train wreck will take care of itself in the fullness of time...
Stay out of it!
It will end up being YOUR fault and you will lose both friends.
They will join forces and turn on you like rabid dogs blaming you for the whole fucked up incident.
Besides that train wreck will take care of itself in the fullness of time...
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silverwhisper
just this guy, you know?
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j, i think your option #2 is what makes the most sense, with erika's caveat that you ought not to offer advice. as you know yourself, sometimes a nudge is all that's necessary.
i like satindesire's point re: sudden changes for no clear reason, incidentally, and perhaps that's where you might want to start that conversation.
whatever you decide, it will be difficult and you're bound to second-guess yourself. just know that's likely before you make a decision.
ed
i like satindesire's point re: sudden changes for no clear reason, incidentally, and perhaps that's where you might want to start that conversation.
whatever you decide, it will be difficult and you're bound to second-guess yourself. just know that's likely before you make a decision.
ed
I would pick option 3 in this case (not really a good friend anymore, indications of malice towards you, etc.). While option 2 looks ok and seems reasonable on the surface, I am not sure you would want her knowing that you know what is happening.
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fire_breeze
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I'm so sorry that you are caught in the middle of this 
.
Like Erika, I'd suggest casually bringing up what you have seen. If she was flashing around her cell phone like she did, chances are that you're not the only one who saw the discriminating text. You also could mention that you noticed some unusual behaviour as well (something along the lines of, "I don't think I've ever seen you so drunk/wild/insert adjective here) and ask her if she's okay. The ball is then in her court: if she takes it up, great. If she doesn't, that's her issue. Offer, but leave it at that. You could offer sound advice and/or sympathetic ear without mentioning any of your past. That's your business and you don't have to share it with anyone unless you want to.
Good luck, and never second guess yourself. People would want to fix themselves, and sometimes, the fixing takes on a different turn than we have envisioned
.Like Erika, I'd suggest casually bringing up what you have seen. If she was flashing around her cell phone like she did, chances are that you're not the only one who saw the discriminating text. You also could mention that you noticed some unusual behaviour as well (something along the lines of, "I don't think I've ever seen you so drunk/wild/insert adjective here) and ask her if she's okay. The ball is then in her court: if she takes it up, great. If she doesn't, that's her issue. Offer, but leave it at that. You could offer sound advice and/or sympathetic ear without mentioning any of your past. That's your business and you don't have to share it with anyone unless you want to.
Good luck, and never second guess yourself. People would want to fix themselves, and sometimes, the fixing takes on a different turn than we have envisioned
How long ago was this? If she was hammered at the time, she may not remember it. If the text has been erased, she is going to wonder where you are coming from. If you try to explain it - will she believe you? I also say stay out of it. If she's that careless, he'll find out eventually.
SweetErika
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That sounds like a good plan.
I don't know if I'd mention her outrageous behavior that night, or overall, apart from maybe asking an open-ended question or two, like, "So, what's going with you/in your life?" in a very gentle, caring way. After all, it sounds like you still care for her as a person, wife and mother to her children. And that's probably what you should consider most - are YOU going to feel bad if you don't express your concern?
Personally, I've done some royally stupid things when plastered, and I've definitely gotten defensive and felt bad about them when even a good friend has brought them up. I don't think that potentially putting her on the defense or guilt track is a good way to help her open up if she does have some other serious issues going on, apart from the likely affair. IDK, but the behavior you describe sounds like there could be some kind of addiction component involved, whether it's drugs, alcohol, gambling, spending, or similar.
Nasty_Deeds
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Not trying to be blunt or rude, but you should mind your own business. There is no way you can come out on this, and when things blow up, you will be the one they blame, not because you did anything wrong, but because you are convenient. It always works that way. My advice is to forget about what you saw and act as if nothing is wrong. If she is screwing around, sooner or later, her husband will figure it out and when he does, act surprised.
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Somehowyou
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My sentiments exactly
twister947
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Myob.....
silverwhisper
just this guy, you know?
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i see the usual infidelity apologists are out in force.
ed
ed
bailadora
We create the dreams.
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BertrandRussell
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Sorry to hear that it happened to you. But it happened. You know that she is cheating. The fact that you found out accidentally is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you know.
I think that you have an obligation to tell her husband. The man confided in you that he has worries. He is asking for your help - as much as any self respecting man can. Can you just stand by and do nothing when you know that someone is doing something that hurts him? ( Would you tell him if someone had stolen his credit card and was using it? Would you tell him if you saw someone breaking into his house? )
Your friendship with him requires that you tell him.
But give her a chance to correct her own mistakes.
Try tough love: sit her down, tell her that she has to come clean. Explain to her that she has to tell her husband, and that if she won't, you will. You can do it gently as some suggest above, or bluntly. Either way, convince her that it is time to take responsibility for her actions.
I think that you have an obligation to tell her husband. The man confided in you that he has worries. He is asking for your help - as much as any self respecting man can. Can you just stand by and do nothing when you know that someone is doing something that hurts him? ( Would you tell him if someone had stolen his credit card and was using it? Would you tell him if you saw someone breaking into his house? )
Your friendship with him requires that you tell him.
But give her a chance to correct her own mistakes.
Try tough love: sit her down, tell her that she has to come clean. Explain to her that she has to tell her husband, and that if she won't, you will. You can do it gently as some suggest above, or bluntly. Either way, convince her that it is time to take responsibility for her actions.
SweetErika
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You have some very good points, BR, but I also think the husband would investigate his suspicions if he really wanted to know what his wife was up to. It'd be way cheaper for him to snoop around and/or hire an investigator than continue to stand by while his wife buys expensive stuff and drags them down financially. So why hasn't he figured out what's going on with her (or had a professional do it) already? There has to be a fairly large part of him that's in denial or just doesn't want to know for whatever reason(s).
Also, I can imagine he didn't ask his friends to try to find out what's going on because he doesn't want to put them in the middle, risk making them uncomfortable and/or really know for sure what his wife is doing.
To play devil's advocate again, what if the friend already has ammo on J and/or PB, or simply makes some shit up and spreads it around when she's threatened with J telling her husband about the text? A person who disrespects her spouse so much likely won't have any compunction about retaliating against people who used to be friends.
At any rate, in this situation, I'd definitely ask the husband if he'd truly want to know if his wife was cheating and/or doing stuff he'd likely find hurtful/offensive BEFORE relaying any info, and I'd seriously consider the potential consequences of backing the wife into a corner prior to making any kind of threat.
klippert
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My first marriage went down the tubes because of a cheating spouse. We didn't have children..... so their was no serious emotional damage. With that said. She had two relatives that knew what she was up too. even before we were married, they new she had a streak of strange behavior.
later I bumped into her relative. I was surprise, this was several yr. late. she apologized and said she wished she would have told me sooner..... the ex went on to ruin two other marriages... finally getting pregnant by a married man, that led too his divorce....marring the my ex....
Don't be that friend, after the dust clears, that tells him: We should have told you, I knew, and didn't tell you.
If you don't have iron-clad proof, then pipe down....This broad is flashing her text messages. she want's too be caught. He has the upper hand, in a divorce. Help him out before she destroys the completely....
later I bumped into her relative. I was surprise, this was several yr. late. she apologized and said she wished she would have told me sooner..... the ex went on to ruin two other marriages... finally getting pregnant by a married man, that led too his divorce....marring the my ex....
Don't be that friend, after the dust clears, that tells him: We should have told you, I knew, and didn't tell you.
If you don't have iron-clad proof, then pipe down....This broad is flashing her text messages. she want's too be caught. He has the upper hand, in a divorce. Help him out before she destroys the completely....
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klippert
Geoff
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do let her destroy them
My first marriage went down the tubes because of a cheating spouse. We didn't have children..... so their was not serious emotional damage. With that said. She had two relatives that knew what she was up too. even before we were married, they new she had a streak of strange behavior.
later I bumped into her relative. I was surprise, this was several yr. late. she apologized and said she wished she would have told me sooner..... the ex went on to ruin two other marriages... finally getting pregnant by a married man, that led too his divorce....marring my ex.... feel sorry for him
Don't be that friend, after the dust clears, that tells him: We should have told you, I knew, and didn't tell you.
If you don't have iron-clad proof, then pipe down....This broad is flashing her text messages. she want's too be caught. He has the upper hand, in a divorce. Help him out before she destroys them completely....
My first marriage went down the tubes because of a cheating spouse. We didn't have children..... so their was not serious emotional damage. With that said. She had two relatives that knew what she was up too. even before we were married, they new she had a streak of strange behavior.
later I bumped into her relative. I was surprise, this was several yr. late. she apologized and said she wished she would have told me sooner..... the ex went on to ruin two other marriages... finally getting pregnant by a married man, that led too his divorce....marring my ex.... feel sorry for him
Don't be that friend, after the dust clears, that tells him: We should have told you, I knew, and didn't tell you.
If you don't have iron-clad proof, then pipe down....This broad is flashing her text messages. she want's too be caught. He has the upper hand, in a divorce. Help him out before she destroys them completely....
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GrimsPet
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Omph! Tough Call!
About four years ago now I had something similar thrown in my face. I had a really good friend locally who was a budding Dominant. She was married - I thought happily, and she had two kids. One was just barely in school and the other was maybe two at the time. Her and her Family also attended my Parents' Church.
When her and I first met to hang out as friends it was as two buddies to just have coffee or whatever and hang out and have a good time. Sometimes the kids were with her and sometimes they weren't - all depended on her work schedule and his. She always seemed very level headed, always seemed in complete control of herself and her family and very confident.
So when she told me she had started talking to submissive men online it threw up some red flags. I asked her if she was sure she wanted to go this route and she said she was merely talking to them and that it was only online. OK, fine, only online I'm just going to mind my own business and let you do your thing.
Her behavior started getting weird though and she wanted to go out lingerie shopping. More red flags went up. I asked her if this was stuff she was buying to wear for her Husband and her comment was, "Well sure if he's around when I wear it, but for the most part I'm getting it to wear for a guy I know." Whoa...
I pulled her aside into a quiet corner of the store and I let her know my exact thoughts on the matter and how I felt if she had issues in her relationship with her Husband she needed to talk to him about them and not be doing this behind his back while he was at work. She agreed with me, and for a short time her erratic behavior had improved and it seemed her and her Husband had talked.
Then one day she sends me an IM, And apparently she's been having sex with two other men on the side. One is a switch, the other a sub. I flipped out on her. Her response was "I know it's wrong, you've always been my conscience, but it feels good and I'm getting something my Husband can't give me." My reaction was utter shock.
A couple months later she announces to me she's pregnant and immediately I winced. My first words to her, "Who's is it?" She paused, "Not my Husband's." I had some colorful language for that one. I asked her, "Does your Husband know?" She shook her head, "He thinks it's his."
Five months pass and she loses the Baby. Somehow in all this I think that might have been a blessing. However the whole ordeal put her Husband through a lot of hell - here he's crying and a basket case because he feels he's lost a child - and he doesn't know it's not his! That alone pissed me off that she was selfishly putting him through this.
Meanwhile first she sends her oldest child out to her Mother's in California because she feels her Mother can "straighten her out." Something smelled fishy.
A few more months pass and she tells me she's talking online with this guy who is young enough to be her son, he's barely legal. She proceeds to tell me about his sob story and how she wants to rescue him from the situation he's in. I smell HUGE trouble. Next thing I know she has crossed state lines and brought this guy back to her home to live with her and her Husband - and through all this he seems to think nothing is going on. Her youngest now ends up going out to California to live with her Mom. So now she has no kids at home to worry about. My whole inner psyche is SCREAMING and I keep telling her that what she is doing is wrong, but it's falling on ears that don't want to listen even though those same ears keep asking for advice.
Fast Forward about four months. I get a text message from her and it says in a nutshell that she just left her Husband and she is already safe on the other side of state lines with her boy toy. When I asked her how her Husband took it she said, "Oh he was fine with it." Somehow I didn't believe that.
Dad ran across her Husband about a month later. He'd only been out of the Hospital a week. He had a nervous breakdown because you know how she broke it off with him? She had already left the state and simply left him a text message saying, "Sorry, I'm leaving, I've got the car." He was at work when he got that message too. His boss called the Ambulance because apparently he went into hysterics on the spot and had the breakdown right then and there.
Let's leap forward about six months. I had barely heard from her a handfull of times over IM that whole time and I get a quick email, "Hi I'm living at a Homeless shelter, I left boytoy because he was beating me. I'm waiting to hear from social services where to go next." So at this point I let her have it, "So was it worth it? Was it worth sending your kids away, fucking around on your Husband and then shacking up with this guy that turned out to be a loser and throwing away your marriage?" She wrote back that she agreed she had made some bad decisions.
She gets out of the Homeless shelter, and moves into some lower cost housing. She gets a housemate, who happens to be a guy. Meanwhile she dates first one loser and then another. Somewhere's in all this her two kids are sent from California to live with her. Her Youngest doesn't remember her. Her Oldest is a huge bundle of whirlwind issues. At least she had the intelligence to get the oldest into counseling.
Last year I get an email from her, and it states how she moved to different housing and after moving she found out that former housemate had been abusing her oldest daughter in the most insidious of ways. So now her daughter had to see a doctor and get checked out etc and the guy was in jail.
I continue now and then to get messages from her and she tells me how much she misses hanging out with me and the things we used to do together. I find out through Dad that he had recently talked with her now ex Husband and apparently she had contacted him wanting him back. He declined having her back and his comments to my Dad were, "She made her bed, she can sleep in it." Last I knew he was trying for custody of the kids.
I haven't heard from her now in a few months, so I'm assuming she ended up moving yet again.
So yes I talked with her, she knew my feelings on the whole matter. She knew I had no approval of what she was doing. She still did it anyways and I'm wondering if it was even worth giving her the advice she kept asking for since she didn't listen.
About four years ago now I had something similar thrown in my face. I had a really good friend locally who was a budding Dominant. She was married - I thought happily, and she had two kids. One was just barely in school and the other was maybe two at the time. Her and her Family also attended my Parents' Church.
When her and I first met to hang out as friends it was as two buddies to just have coffee or whatever and hang out and have a good time. Sometimes the kids were with her and sometimes they weren't - all depended on her work schedule and his. She always seemed very level headed, always seemed in complete control of herself and her family and very confident.
So when she told me she had started talking to submissive men online it threw up some red flags. I asked her if she was sure she wanted to go this route and she said she was merely talking to them and that it was only online. OK, fine, only online I'm just going to mind my own business and let you do your thing.
Her behavior started getting weird though and she wanted to go out lingerie shopping. More red flags went up. I asked her if this was stuff she was buying to wear for her Husband and her comment was, "Well sure if he's around when I wear it, but for the most part I'm getting it to wear for a guy I know." Whoa...
I pulled her aside into a quiet corner of the store and I let her know my exact thoughts on the matter and how I felt if she had issues in her relationship with her Husband she needed to talk to him about them and not be doing this behind his back while he was at work. She agreed with me, and for a short time her erratic behavior had improved and it seemed her and her Husband had talked.
Then one day she sends me an IM, And apparently she's been having sex with two other men on the side. One is a switch, the other a sub. I flipped out on her. Her response was "I know it's wrong, you've always been my conscience, but it feels good and I'm getting something my Husband can't give me." My reaction was utter shock.
A couple months later she announces to me she's pregnant and immediately I winced. My first words to her, "Who's is it?" She paused, "Not my Husband's." I had some colorful language for that one. I asked her, "Does your Husband know?" She shook her head, "He thinks it's his."
Five months pass and she loses the Baby. Somehow in all this I think that might have been a blessing. However the whole ordeal put her Husband through a lot of hell - here he's crying and a basket case because he feels he's lost a child - and he doesn't know it's not his! That alone pissed me off that she was selfishly putting him through this.
Meanwhile first she sends her oldest child out to her Mother's in California because she feels her Mother can "straighten her out." Something smelled fishy.
A few more months pass and she tells me she's talking online with this guy who is young enough to be her son, he's barely legal. She proceeds to tell me about his sob story and how she wants to rescue him from the situation he's in. I smell HUGE trouble. Next thing I know she has crossed state lines and brought this guy back to her home to live with her and her Husband - and through all this he seems to think nothing is going on. Her youngest now ends up going out to California to live with her Mom. So now she has no kids at home to worry about. My whole inner psyche is SCREAMING and I keep telling her that what she is doing is wrong, but it's falling on ears that don't want to listen even though those same ears keep asking for advice.
Fast Forward about four months. I get a text message from her and it says in a nutshell that she just left her Husband and she is already safe on the other side of state lines with her boy toy. When I asked her how her Husband took it she said, "Oh he was fine with it." Somehow I didn't believe that.
Dad ran across her Husband about a month later. He'd only been out of the Hospital a week. He had a nervous breakdown because you know how she broke it off with him? She had already left the state and simply left him a text message saying, "Sorry, I'm leaving, I've got the car." He was at work when he got that message too. His boss called the Ambulance because apparently he went into hysterics on the spot and had the breakdown right then and there.
Let's leap forward about six months. I had barely heard from her a handfull of times over IM that whole time and I get a quick email, "Hi I'm living at a Homeless shelter, I left boytoy because he was beating me. I'm waiting to hear from social services where to go next." So at this point I let her have it, "So was it worth it? Was it worth sending your kids away, fucking around on your Husband and then shacking up with this guy that turned out to be a loser and throwing away your marriage?" She wrote back that she agreed she had made some bad decisions.
She gets out of the Homeless shelter, and moves into some lower cost housing. She gets a housemate, who happens to be a guy. Meanwhile she dates first one loser and then another. Somewhere's in all this her two kids are sent from California to live with her. Her Youngest doesn't remember her. Her Oldest is a huge bundle of whirlwind issues. At least she had the intelligence to get the oldest into counseling.
Last year I get an email from her, and it states how she moved to different housing and after moving she found out that former housemate had been abusing her oldest daughter in the most insidious of ways. So now her daughter had to see a doctor and get checked out etc and the guy was in jail.
I continue now and then to get messages from her and she tells me how much she misses hanging out with me and the things we used to do together. I find out through Dad that he had recently talked with her now ex Husband and apparently she had contacted him wanting him back. He declined having her back and his comments to my Dad were, "She made her bed, she can sleep in it." Last I knew he was trying for custody of the kids.
I haven't heard from her now in a few months, so I'm assuming she ended up moving yet again.
So yes I talked with her, she knew my feelings on the whole matter. She knew I had no approval of what she was doing. She still did it anyways and I'm wondering if it was even worth giving her the advice she kept asking for since she didn't listen.
