The charges against Assange

[Pure]

Your comments on the rape charges against Mr. Assange of Wikileaks. You may choose more than one item.

Decent accts of some of the facts:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/world/europe/19assange.html


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...rape_charges_leaked_wikileaks_heads_lawy.html


other stories, the last is quite informative:
http://gizmodo.com/5705614/wikileaks-julian-assange-is-not-accused-of-rape-updated

http://gizmodo.com/5705430/wikileaks-julian-assange-is-not-accused-of-rape

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...rested-in-london/story-fn775xjq-1225967260554

 

[oggbashan]

I've voted for 'cannot be assessed until there's a fair trial'.

Whether such a fair trial is possible?

That's another question.

Og

 

[FallingToFly]

who is this person, what is wikileaks and why SHOULD I care?

 

[Boxlicker101]

From what I have read, they are probably true, but I would really need more details to say with any certainty. I understand one woman was willing, but changed her mind when he didn't want to use a condom. He went ahead anyhow, which would be rape in the US and probably Sweden and most likely Australia. However, he might not consider it to be rape. I don't know much about the second charge, and I don't really know much more about the first one either.

In other words, I think he is probably guilty of at least one charge. Assuming he is extradited to Sweden, we will probably know more later.

 

[olivias]

I didn't see a choice connecting this with the writing of erotica.

 

[Pure]

note to falling and olivias

speaking purely personally. this is free speech forum. falling, you post to non authorly threads all the time. olivias, you posted yesterday to the 'don't ask, don't tell' thread.

i hope you post your grumbles to some of the other threads, e.g.

Vote whoring,
Cheap nike shoes
Fear and greed
Holy smokes,
Is gaia telling us something
Hot delicious winter drinks.
What I want for Christmas.
Don't ask, don't tell repealed.

 

[FallingToFly]

I wasn't being snarky. I honestly don't know any of those answers.

Sorry- I am extremely sleep--deprived at the moment, and probably not at the peak of communication abilities.

 

[Austin8]

Pure,

I must say Ive found the whole Julian Assange / WikiLeaks thing intriguing. For some unknown reason I can't help but like this guy. Come on now, he has an underground lair. But I just can't find any up to date info on the case online. Is info being squashed on this?

 

[JackLuis]

I put up a link to Julian's, charges in # 239 of My "Leaked Oh My" thread.

From the article it shouldn't be hard to write a story based upon the facts listed. It's almost a Blow by Lick description!

TxRad, see if you wait for it, it will come. The porn story that is.

 

[FallingToFly]

Annnnnd Austin further mystifies me. Underground lair?

Is this guy some sort of Swedish Batman? I can't picture that very well, but the only other option in my head is a bald tennis player in leiderhosen.

 

[olivias]

speaking purely personally. this is free speech forum. falling, you post to non authorly threads all the time. olivias, you posted yesterday to the 'don't ask, don't tell' thread.

i hope you post your grumbles to some of the other threads, e.g.

Vote whoring,
Cheap nike shoes
Fear and greed
Holy smokes,
Is gaia telling us something
Hot delicious winter drinks.
What I want for Christmas.
Don't ask, don't tell repealed.

Yes, I posted to another posting yesterday--out of frustration and disgust. At what I found when, as a fairly new Literotica author, I came to this section of the forum expecting discussion by authors and readers on writing issues.

I won't make the mistake of coming here again.

 

[FallingToFly]

olivias-

You can go poke at my muse thread- it's definitely a frustrated writerly thread.

And apparently the wikileaks thing is some idiot leaking private correspondence about our diplomatic service?

I'm sorry, but I'm a big fan of responsible journalism. THINK about what you are writing before you publish it. Actions like that can knock American foreign relations into the dumpster- and guess what? we're already on everyone's favorite target list. Not only that, but leaking our nation's governmental documents (that may not even be a word, I'm too tired for this shite) SHOULD be considered treatson and SHOULD be punishable by firing squad. I've said this before- if you hate this country so much that you feel the need to attempt to destroy it- there are a million square mile of ocean all free for the taking. Build yourself a boat and leave. (I wouldn't inflicty trash like that on another country.)

Boo to Wikileaks, I hope someone melts their servers.

 

[oggbashan]

Yes, I posted to another posting yesterday--out of frustration and disgust. At what I found when, as a fairly new Literotica author, I came to this section of the forum expecting discussion by authors and readers on writing issues.

I won't make the mistake of coming here again.

I'm sorry that you feel frustrated but if you are selective there are writing threads in the Authors' Hangout and in its sub-forum. If you look at the Authors' Hangout Library thread you will find discussions on many writing issues.

This is where we hang out and discuss anything, including writing. If you pick and choose then you will find authors willing to post about words, literature, writing techniques and many other topics.

One of the near constants is a thread about the current or next themed story contest. Those threads should always be about writing but some people's egos derail even those threads from time to time.

Og

 

[TxRad]

Yes, I posted to another posting yesterday--out of frustration and disgust. At what I found when, as a fairly new Literotica author, I came to this section of the forum expecting discussion by authors and readers on writing issues.

I won't make the mistake of coming here again.

Put these names on your ignore list and most of the political crap will disappear.

amicus
JAMESBJOHNSON
LJ_Reloaded

Songcatcher
squarejohn
trysail

Sorry to say you can't use the ignore function on Pure as they are a moderator on another thread who seems to thing we care about this type shit.

For Pure, Firefox has a plugin that works like ignore. Stella Omega has it listed in her Sig line.

 

[Pure]

some links

Decent acct of some of the facts:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...rape_charges_leaked_wikileaks_heads_lawy.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden


other stories, the last is quite informative:
http://gizmodo.com/5705614/wikileaks-julian-assange-is-not-accused-of-rape-updated

http://gizmodo.com/5705430/wikileaks-julian-assange-is-not-accused-of-rape

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...rested-in-london/story-fn775xjq-1225967260554

 

[Stella_Omega]

I admire Assange for his radical vision.

I am pretty sure that the rape charges against him are true. My admiration of his dedication to freedom of information does not mean that he's a saint in my eyes. He can certainly have flaws in areas like, say, interpersonal communications, and STILL have a great vision.

Pure, you missed one choice; the reason the charges are being pressed-- which is NOT the same thing as being filed-- is because of US pressure. The women made the charges correctly.

 

[Pure]

note to tx

speaking personally.

thanks for taking a break from your busy life posting to 'the last person to post here, wins.' it's a great burden you and friends have undertaken to keep this key authorly thread afloat, with tens of thousands of postings.

you continually post to non-authorly threads, see below for today and yesterday only, so welcome to the hypocrites' club.


Holy smokes, what a bike
The last person to post here, wins (5 times)
Total lunar eclipse
New granddaughter
End of world prediction
Japanese bio scientists… singing mouse.

but hey, it's a free speech forum. if you're more into the singing mouse, than the wikileaks stories, chacun à son goût.

again sorry to interrupt. you better get back to 'last person to post here' in a hurry, or you'll lose!

best,
jan

 

[Pure]

note to stella

stell I am pretty sure that the rape charges against him are true.

my opinion is that the rape charges are almost certainly false, and indeed they were withdrawn once, then re-instituted.

in fact, the most recent stories say that the charge will be 'sex by surprise.' which is the term for sex without a condom, which carries only a fine, usually.

that the charges are motivated by factors other than real grievance, is suggested by:

both women had consensual sex with him, prior to the questionable events.
one [W] had sex with him, after.
both had friendly contacts with him, after.
neither filed charges for several days, if not weeks; AND
[undermining the whole thing] they talked together some days after the events and decided together to file charges.

my opinion is that he's guilty of rude conduct, that, is improprieties, that fall short of ANY criminal charges. and mitigating that as culpable (morally) is the second woman's continued friendly contacts with him.

new york times account corroborating the above:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/world/europe/19assange.html

[…]
The two women have been referred to in the British courts only as Ms. A and Ms. W. Ms. A, according to the police report and to Swedish friends, is a left-wing activist in her early 30s who was Mr. Assange’s point of contact when he flew to Stockholm from London on Aug. 11 to give a speech at a gathering hosted by the Swedish Association of Christian Social Democrats on Aug. 14. Her friends say her political leanings suggest she would not want to harm WikiLeaks, which is dedicated to revealing states’ secrets.
Enlarge This Image

·
Ms. W, who has worked part-time in a Stockholm museum, has told friends that she is a strong supporter of WikiLeaks, a description supported by the lawyer who was represented the two women in Swedish courts.

Ms. A told the police that arrangements had been made for Mr. Assange to begin his visit to Sweden by staying at her Stockholm apartment for a few days while she was out of town. But the report said she returned Aug. 13, sooner than expected and, over dinner with Mr. Assange, agreed to allow him to stay in the apartment.

The details of their sexual encounter that night were redacted from the copy of the police report obtained by The Times. But The Guardian reported Saturday that Ms. A told the police that Mr. Assange had stroked her leg, then pulled off her clothes and snapped her necklace. The report quotes her as saying that she “tried to put on some articles of clothing as it was going too quickly and uncomfortably but Assange ripped them off again.”
According to The Guardian, Ms. A told the police that Mr. Assange pinned her arms and legs to stop her from reaching for a condom. Eventually one was used — but, she told her police interviewer, he appeared to have “done something” with it, resulting in its tearing.

Ms. W, 25, lives in the town of Enkoping, about 30 miles north of Stockholm. A few weeks before Mr. Assange arrived in Sweden, she saw him on television, according to the police interview in The Times’s version of the police report, and found him “interesting, brave and worthy of admiration.” When she discovered that he would be speaking in Stockholm, she contacted Ms. A to volunteer her help.
Her offer was not taken up, but she decided to attend the lecture anyway, where she met Ms. A in person. After the speech, she told the police, she sat next to Mr. Assange at a group dinner. He flirtatiously fed her bread and cheese, she said, and put his arm around her.

The group dispersed after dinner, leaving Mr. Assange and Ms. W alone, the police report said. They decided to go to a movie, where, the report said, the couple began caressing, then moved to a back row, where they continued. Two days later, Ms. W and Mr. Assange met again and walked around the city’s old town together, according to the police report. It said they decided to go by train to Enkoping after Mr. Assange balked at staying in a Stockholm hotel. Ms. W then bought his rail ticket, for about $16, after Mr. Assange told her that he did not have any money, and that he feared he could be traced if he used a credit card.

The unredacted police report obtained by The Guardian says that after arriving at her apartment the two had sex using a condom. In the report, she described waking up to find him having sex with her again, without a condom. Later that morning, Ms. W told the police, Mr. Assange “ordered her to get some water and orange juice for him.” She said “she didn’t like being ordered around in her own home but got it anyway.”
[/SIZE]

 

[Pure]

jackluis

thanks ! i had not found that source,yet. -J

 

[TxRad]

Pure, you have the right to post anything you like. I have no problem with that at all. My problem is the fact that you use your moderators ID to do it. Please have the common courtesy to use an ID that anyone who wants to can put on ignore.

You have every rigth to post and I have every right not to listen/read.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Consensual sex the first time does not mean that non-consensual sex is okay the next time.

We seem to have a lot of trouble understanding that concept.

"Sex by surprise" seems like a trivial matter, and in fact, it kind of is, even in Sweden where it has legal standing. But it does have legal standing there.

Talking together afterwards and deciding to file? Why does that undermine anything? "Oh my god he did it to YOU TOO? maybe we need to speak up. I though it was just me."

Totally makes sense to me. Women are goddamn used to not being believed when they talk about sexual assault.

None of this alters the fact that the charges would have been ignored if Assange wasn't who he is.

He could have run a stoplight, and no one would be arguing about whether or not he'd run the fucking stoplight-- right? Don't try to make this somthing more-- or less-- than what it is.

 

[Pure]

txI have every right not to listen/read.

indeed you do, tx, so why don't you exercize it, instead of coming to this thread and bitching that you are forced to *see* its *title*.

further you said, originally,

txSorry to say you can't use the ignore function on Pure as they are a moderator on another thread who seems to thing we care about this type shit.

this alleges that "we" (royal) do not care about this type shit, and makes no mention of the ignore-moderators' problem.

in fact, you care, that is take an interest in, and post to any number of non authorly and political--i.e. shit-- threads. i don't suppose you've heard of the problem of the 'beam in your own eye.'

 

[Pure]

Consensual sex the first time does not mean that non-consensual sex is okay the next time.

We seem to have a lot of trouble understanding that concept.

who exactly is the "we", here? where did i say the second time was 'ok'. quote me. quote the others who said that.

however, let me ask you-all who have advanced understanding, would you agree that a women who voluntarily has (consensual) sex soon after the alleged non-consensual sex, and is not a prisoner, throws some doubt on any claim to have suffered a harm that the larger society should pay any attention to (or lay charges against).?


he committed an impropriety which is not even in the criminal code of most countries. apparently sweden, so advanced in a number of areas, including those involving women, here shows apparent stupidity or obtuseness (which is actually, as you have agreed, truckling to political pressures, to make a case unlikely to get past a simple fine as a penalty.)

 

[TxRad]

txI have every right not to listen/read.

indeed you do, tx, so why don't you exercize it, instead of coming to this thread and bitching that you are forced to *see* its *title*.

further you said, originally,

txSorry to say you can't use the ignore function on Pure as they are a moderator on another thread who seems to thing we care about this type shit.

this alleges that "we" (royal) do not care about this type shit, and makes no mention of the ignore-moderators' problem.

in fact, you care, that is take an interest in, and post to any number of non authorly and political--i.e. shit-- threads. i don't suppose you've heard of the problem of the 'beam in your own eye.'

So what is wrong with the thread on this subject that is already posted to the tune of 10 pages? Why not just throw your two cents in there instead of starting a whole new thread of stuff that has been already hashed over? I posted to that thread also.

In fact, I post to a lot of threads here in the AH. What do you post to besides starting political threads and posting in other political threads? Why don't you post this crap in your own forum?

I used they because I'm not sure if you are a he or a she. I figured that was quite obvious but since it's not, why don't you use another ID other than the one you moderate with? Simple because you don't give a rats ass what anyone else thinks or cares about.

Ok, you're going to say there was a vote about politics in the AH. Yes there was but over half of the people that voted have never posted a damned thing in the AH since. Maybe you should start a political thread on that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Consensual sex the first time does not mean that non-consensual sex is okay the next time.

We seem to have a lot of trouble understanding that concept.

who exactly is the "we", here? where did i say the second time was 'ok'. quote me. quote the others who said that.

however, let me ask you-all who have advanced understanding, would you agree that a women who voluntarily has (consensual) sex soon after the alleged non-consensual sex, and is not a prisoner, throws some doubt on any claim to have suffered a harm that the larger society should pay any attention to (or lay charges against).?


he committed an impropriety which is not even in the criminal code of most countries. apparently sweden, so advanced in a number of areas, including those involving women, here shows apparent stupidity or obtuseness (which is actually, as you have agreed, truckling to political pressures, to make a case unlikely to get past a simple fine as a penalty.)

You are conflating two different things here. One is whether or not (I think by your wording) the women had the right to make the complaints, which, yes they do by the laws of their land.

The other is the way in which these complaints are being misused by large political entities.

Oh yeah-- and I'm sure there's something about the women being traitor to the cause by making the complaints. Every powerful man will use that argument.