The books you hated!

[Statius]

War and Peace. Biggest waste of paper I've ever read. Love Anna Karenina though. One of my favorites.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

It's been many years, but basically young guy has to find recluse in the forest to train him in magic, then they need to rescue Princess from bad guy's lair with the help of an outlaw. There's a rebel alliance. No droids as I recall, but tons of other parallels.

It was a joke, of course. But yeah, I couldn't read Paolini as well. Maybe it would have worked for me if I had picked up the book when I was 13 or so, but I was well into adulthood when I tried reading it.

 

[Deadbed1968]

Hated Catcher in the Rye. Holden Caulfield is/was a little shit.

 

[Deadbed1968]

The Bible. I found it boring and stilted as heck. Maybe because I was forced to read it so many times growing up with the forced church attendance. Yeah, it’s got good parts, but there are many better books out there.

Tough for a committee of misogynistic, megalomaniacal old men to come up with a good story.

 

[Djmac1031]

Tough for a committee of misogynistic, megalomaniacal old men to come up with a good story.

Funny how not much has changed over the millenia...

 

[Deadbed1968]

Funny how not much has changed over the millenia...

Yup. We never learn.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

The Fountainhead Ayn Rand

 

[lovecraft68]

I was a big fan of David Eddings Belgariad series.

But then he went back to the well for a follow up series the Mallorean.

Flat out garbage that was literally "Um but wait, there was um...another prophecy!" and it shits on every single thing good about the original.

 

[AchtungNight]

I was a big fan of David Eddings Belgariad series.

But then he went back to the well for a follow up series the Mallorean.

Flat out garbage that was literally "Um but wait, there was um...another prophecy!" and it shits on every single thing good about the original.

I disagree. There were many great characters and scenes in the Mallorean. I mostly have this opinion because of Liselle and Poledra though.

I like the ideas behind the Dresden and Krynn fantasy series, but the execution stinks. Authors are too into making their characters’ lives miserable.

 

[sister jenny]

The Fountainhead Ayn Rand

YES!!

 

[sister jenny]

Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts
Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace
The Fountainhead Ayn Rand
The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho
Platform by Michel Houellebecq

 

[Britva415]

Same universe! Stephen King loooves his little Dark Tower metasetting.

I should have known

 

[Britva415]

I couldn't read Paolini as well. Maybe it would have worked for me if I had picked up the book when I was 13 or so

I honestly don't know how popular those books are among teens/tweens. But they're so sterile, I can only see them appealing to autistic kids or something.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Tough for a committee of misogynistic, megalomaniacal old men to come up with a good story.

Has anyone here told the erotic tale of the virtuous prostitute Rahab, who saved Israel's spies during the conquest of Canaan, and is considered a hero by Judaism?

Tamar, daughter-in-law of Judah son of Jacob? The one who dressed up as a whore to seduce her father-in-law? Their one sexual encounter produced twins, including Perez, ancestor of the Davidic line of kings.

Are Lot and his daughters in Taboo/Incest anywhere? They have to be, right?

--Annie

 

[Britva415]

I still don't know where Cain and Abel were supposed to have found wives from. Whose daughters were they?

 

[YmaOHyd]

I like the ideas behind the Dresden and Krynn fantasy series, but the execution stinks. Authors are too into making their characters’ lives miserable.

At least the Krynn authors (the good ones, anyway) have an excuse: they're mostly game designers, and the good books are mostly just fictionalized versions of certain AD&D modules played by their buddies. Raistlin looks the way he does because that's how an artist for TSR drew him and talks the way he does because that's how Terry Phillips talked at the table.

 

[YmaOHyd]

I still don't know where Cain and Abel were supposed to have found wives from. Whose daughters were they?

Adam and Eve's.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I still don't know where Cain and Abel were supposed to have found wives from. Whose daughters were they?

All I know is, Cain gets a bad rap 'cause Abel had it comin'.

 

[Statius]

Lots of hate for The Fountainhead. That book had an impact on me when I couldn't quite define what it meant to be an Individual. That's not to say I agree with much of what Ayn Rand said, but I learned a great deal about myself with that book. Atlas Shrugged on the other hand, well that's just another monumental waste of paper.

Fun fact. At one point in time, Atlas Shrugged was the second most bought/ read book in the US, right after the Bible. Does that say something about our society? Rhetorical question, not looking to start anything.

 

[AchtungNight]

Read both Ayn Rand books. Didn’t like either one.

 

[Actingup]

I was a big fan of David Eddings Belgariad series.

But then he went back to the well for a follow up series the Mallorean.

Flat out garbage that was literally "Um but wait, there was um...another prophecy!" and it shits on every single thing good about the original.

David Eddings.. the guy who knew how to stretch out a 750 word story over a multi-book series.

 

[lovecraft68]

Can't help but wonder if Ayn Rand continues to get bashed here because her iconic books are that bad or their politics dictate they have to and they want to impress their likeminded cult members.

Ayn Rand came from a country and time where women weren't supposed to be able to read, let alone write and she penned novels that are more relevant today than in her day. Her success is a symbol of early feminism.

You know, the thing here people like to pretend to support until, again, they're told not to because it's never misogyny if you're told not to like the person.

 

[lovecraft68]

David Eddings.. the guy who knew how to stretch out a 750 word story over a multi-book series.

I'd take it over Tub of goo Martin's books. Eddings didn't need tits, women constantly being raped and abused, over the top torture and underaged sex to sell his books.

But to your remark, he'd fit right in here where people write a slew of 750 word 'stories' to pad their file.

Difference is his books sold millions as opposed to low scores and minimal views.

 

[THBGato]

Ayn Rand came from a country and time where women weren't supposed to be able to read, let alone write and she penned novels that are more relevant today than in her day. Her success is a symbol of early feminism.

They had schools in Russia pre-Revolution. She went to University in Lenningrad. Not saying her early life was easy - obviously it wasn't - but I don't think it was quite as bleak a context as you're painting it...

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Lots of hate for The Fountainhead. That book had an impact on me when I couldn't quite define what it meant to be an Individual. That's not to say I agree with much of what Ayn Rand said, but I learned a great deal about myself with that book. Atlas Shrugged on the other hand, well that's just another monumental waste of paper.

Fun fact. At one point in time, Atlas Shrugged was the second most bought/ read book in the US, right after the Bible. Does that say something about our society? Rhetorical question, not looking to start anything.

I don't want to detract from the value you took from the book... buuut.. *breathes in*

The characters are dull and flat. Howard Roarke, Rand's Gary Dreamboat (and allegedly a fictional stand in for the man she was having an affair with while writing Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged) is an obnoxiously dull GQ-esque intellectual macho man, and morally problematic (Andrew Tate, eat your heart out).

Dominique is dull, and a thinly veiled stand-in for the author… not a Mary Sue but something approximating that.

Ellsworth Toohey is a dull strawman.

There’s no nuance to the story. Characters are righteous or they’re terrible, and when they're righteous then rape is their right, evidently.

Which brings me to... Howard Roarke raping Dominique. I don’t see how anyone who has read that scene could defend his action, and yes there are a lot of defenders out there lol. Rape by engraved invitation is still (spoiler alert) rape.
Did Dominique enjoy it despite not giving consent? Sure. There’s no denying that. Why else would she keep going back to beg for more dick while publicly repudiating the rapist (not for rape mind you, but for being a maverick)? But therein lies the problem. Rand has always made it clear that her MCs are not realistic men, but ideal men. She also made it clear that that she believes her worldview to be morally superior to all others. Fountainhead was meant, in Rand's own words, to depict "individualism versus collectivism, not in politics, but in man's soul." In other words, selfishness is a moral imperative. To rape is a selfish act indeed.

The thing is, I don't necessarily see any moral conviction behind the rape scene. not one that stands up to a good faith test of objectivism anyways. An objectivist can say that rape is wrong and I'll believe them. What it is, however, is an erotic fantasy. Dominique Francon is Ayn Rand. Howard Roarke is Nathaniel Branden, the man with whom Ayn Rand was having an affair, and Ayn Rand has a kink. I think that's not hard to see. But she dresses her kink as philosophy, and that's why I hate it.

Fair enough if you enjoyed the book, especially for other aspects I have not considered. Please don't let me or anyone else say you're not allowed to. Would love to hear dissenting opinions.