The biggest Problem

[Morden]

The biggest problem with the generations of today is that they lack solid leadership. I am not talking parents or teachers, but rather the unspoken leadership of a quality Role-Model. I mean don't get me wrong I love a lot of the current culture in teh world. The thing is there are virtually NO role-models in this day and age that represent the belief's of Honour, Loyalty, and the most important one Respect!
The best role-models are taken by those that are quiet and those that are more worldly then our current average youth. Its hard to find a true Warrior among all the savages. The ethics of violence and battle are no longer tempered by poetry and verse but are lashed out in blarring ease by the berserking mass media.

comments and flames welcome.

 

[cymbidia]

Teachers are not quality role models?
Why, pray tell, are they not?
Isn't that one of their historical duties?

And if it's not, anymore, then who is filling the void?

Perhaps the "generations of today" have abandoned the traditional role models of yesterday without having anything or anyone else to replace those they so unceremoniously released from the job.

One has to learn how to be a fully enfranchised adult in our so-complicated society; it's not information that comes to one on the 18th birthday but a set of skills learned over time... from one's teachers, of whatever stripe.

 

[Morden]

Teachers are a great source for temporary Role-Models. But its really hard in this day and age to make them a long lasting role-model. they have a wonderful or detremental effect on the individual. I was referring to those outside the parental or school teacher circle.

 

[Willing and Unsure]

teachers may be role models... but i do believe they have to be good teachers to be a role model... i've had my fair share of bad teachers, ones i wouldnt ever want to see again after their class, and i dont think of them as role models... i think of them as people i dont want to be

the way i was raised... i also thought that the parents were supposed to be good role models for their children... and i will have to disagree as seeing my parents as good role models here too... sure, they provide material things for me, but nothing beyond that... anything on an emotional level, i learned on my own and from my friends (the few that i've had) and tried to make the best of it... and i dont consider the way i had to learn the "set of skills learned over time" on my own, ont from my teachers, not from my parents... but on my own... i dont see any role models here.. dont think i've ever had one

 

[Morden]

I know for me growing up. I had no role-models. The way was paved with unsurety awkwardness and strife. Once I was able to understand I began to aquire my ideals and my own set of role-models. As with Willing my teachers where mostly nothing more then petty individuals looking to retain thier positions of autority over a group of children they thought learned one way. Little did they know that they were wrong. I turned to stories for my role-models. The first ones in comics. This was of course a moment of heresy in the school system. I had to hide my literature for it was of course not true literature. I had my books stolen and destroyed all because of ignorance. I still grew on to part myself from the main stream. Loving such individuals as Conan (books), the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Superman, Batman, and later grotchety old wizards and Samurai. I learned the values of decency, honour, and respect from these figures. Thier examples where what restored my view of the world. Not as a place of flowers and singing birds, but as a place where I could walk proud and strong. I would even submit that the TV helped me more then my teachers. My parents bless them I do tried. The thing is when both your parents work and are rarely home, you tend to raise yourself.
I look at TV now and find that though there still are some shows that instill a good sense of value, the majority are filled with a senselessness that can sometimes defy explanation to a younge mind. The movies, video games, and even Music are similarly filled with strange images of warped realities. So i ask where a child is to learn by example the simple fundementals of honour, respect, and loyalty.
I know where I will lead my child to find these. But, I thought I would offer a thought to others on what is happening IMHO.

 

[cymbidia]

Sometimes, unfortunately, our strongest role models can be those who we look at and think, "I'm never in a million fucking years gonna be like that!"

Throughout our lives, then, we carry that strong image of what we *don't* want to be - and that person becomes, in effect, rightly or wrongly, a very influential role model in our lives.

But we all have role models, even if it's remembering the kindness of the sweet old lady down the street who knows our name and always asks about the cat we had when we were 10.

We all have role models, positive or negative. It's the way we, as humans, learn about our society and our place in it. It's a part of who we are as animals, as humans, to learn by mimicry and the absorption of the skill of those to whom we're close.

 

[Closet Desire]

Let's get to the nitty gritty...

...most role models aren't chosen by members of the public until after they are dead. I'm not being facitious. Being an identified "role model" makes one something of a legend and they are seldom identified as one during their life. I think the reason for this is that history decides who a good role model was.

I think there are just as many role-models today as there were twenty years ago, fifty years ago, and even a century ago. We just won't know it until they are dead.

Something to think about though. "Role models" reflect society's values at large and not necessarily what, for example, a parent might ideally want. If we're talking about children and what influences them (video games, movies, etc.) then we can't really blame a lack of role models, because we are the ones who have created the current crop.

As an apparent contrast I am constantly puzzled by the values of many Americans. The Harry Potter series has created a storm of interest among youngsters in the lost art of reading and imagination. It has drawn them away, however briefly, from the television and the video games into what most of us consider traditional values. Yet, it is Harry Potter who is being protested by parents, banned from library shelves, and banished from public discussion. Such a peaceful contrast to what kids are frequently assailed with. It's not a new issue, just a recent version.

Two of my kids are within weeks of becoming "adults" and I often wish they were different, had achieved more, etc. But I catch myself and remind myself. My kids are decent kids. They have never been in trouble with the police. They have never come home ridiculously drunk nor have we had to go pick them up because they couldn't make it home. They have not picked fights or created a load of enemies for themselves. They can read and write and have passed their courses. One is a top ranked athlete and the other a scholar. There is nothing special about the way they were raised. Most kids turn out this way. Where is my evidence of this? When you look around in your day-to-day life you're going to see people getting on with the business of life. Eating and laughing in restaurants. Working in their jobs. Getting married (or whatever) and having families...or not. Thing is, most people turn out okay.

Flaws stand out because they seem so different from what surrounds them. In judging a diamond by a flaw we can miss the beauty of the rest of the stone. I personally have to remind myself not to judge the world around me by the flaws, but by the indisputable good that surrounds and dwarfs the flaws.

 

[PL~Shadow Lover]

Latchkey kids of the world unite!

I too had no "real" role model growing up, I read books about knights, sorcery, and chivalry. The comic books I read taught me about right and wrong.

Anyone see the movie Cable Guy? Most people brush it off as one of Jim Carrey's less funny movies, but the message that is in there is best summed up by his line "Someone has to kill the babysitter". Most parents use TV as a way to watch their kids while they work seemingly endless days. What ever happened to family values? They used to be the best role models.

 

[Angelus]

It is true that there are no good role-models left in this world. They have all been taken over by the role-models that show everyone things that they shouldn't do but the kids do it anyway so that they can be considered "cool". It has gone on for far too long and all that it is doing is telling the children of this world is that it is good if you make your parents almost cry. The teenagers nowadays are becoming extremely rebellious and I know that everyone here was like that when they were a teenager but nothing like this, that have hit a whole new level and if not stopped soon then there will be a lot of young people in prison.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Latchkey kids of the world unite!

Most parents use TV as a way to watch their kids while they work seemingly endless days. What ever happened to family values? They used to be the best role models.

I'm not sure this is true for society at large but it is certainly *not* true for me and my friends and relatives.

Almost all the people i know make pretty wild efforts to be home for thier kids, to be there when the kids need them, to NOT have the damn TV on all the time. Family values are alive and well at my house, and in the homes of everyone i know.

Why have kids if you're not going to be able to be there for them?

The teenagers nowadays are becoming extremely rebellious and I know that everyone here was like that when they were a teenager but nothing like this, that have hit a whole new level

You shoulda heard the kinds of stuff "they" were saying about teenagers when i was one. ~laughing~ No, no.. there truly "is nothing new under the sun". [Ecclesiastes 1,9]

Just like fashions, it's all just recycled angst, guys, sorry.

 

[PL~Shadow Lover]

I'm glad to see there are a few strongholds of family values left.

And you're right, we do tend to focus on the blatant errors because they are thrown in our face. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.

Some people have kids thinking they are prepared for anything that can happen and they will raise them well, but sometimes it doesn't work.

 

[Ksss]

As I watch children growing up now, some things haven't changed. I think everyone tries to instill good qualities in their children when they are young, things like saying please and thank you, excuse me, etc. But I think as children grow older and they require less of their parents attention ( placing friends first) we as parents tend to become frustrated.

I was one of those parents which sat through school concerts, did the scouting thing ( boy scouts and girl scouts) and tried to stay active when my children were in high school doing their extra-curricular actiivites. I always found it amazing how many children were at these things with no parents there for backup support. And it always seemed to be the same kids.

I think most everyone has said at some point in their lives "I'm never gonna be/sound like my mom/dad". When one day you are "lecturing" your kids and OMG! you realize you do sound like them and OMG! their advice wasn't really that bad. At some point you realize some of their values are actually quite reasonable and you do understand where they were coming from back then.

The things I placed value on when my children were growing up isn't necessarily the same values my children will have with their kids, but I am hoping that some of the more valuable ethics I have taught them will help them make wise decisions as parents.

I valued the time I spent with my children, whether it was reading a book, playing a game, or singing a song. Every night there was a meal on the table and each member of the family was required to sit at the table, no music, not tv in the background. This was time spent sharing what each person had done throughout the day. Until my children were of an older age they had set bedtimes, bathtime and unwinding time.

As I watch my grandson (who happens to live with me) growing up, I see values which aren't there which I tried to instill in my daughter. My grandson eats many meals in front of the tv and the tv is used as a babysitter when she is doing other things. There is no set bedtime (although it is difficult since he shares time with his father who works a different schedule). Time isn't spent with him, doing thigns with him on a one-to-one basis. Although, I think many parents do this as they are more concerned with trying to pay the bills and worrying about other adult things.

I am sure I'm gonna get blasted for saying this, but I don't think children hear these two simple phrases enough anymore. I don't think they hear the words "I love you" and "I'm proud of you". I think some parents take for granted that their children know they love them and that they are proud of them. But kids need to hear this every day.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

In 1968 I was 11

and picked role models from the left and tried to emulate them, Jimmy, Janis, et. al.,

I finally had to give up. It was killing me!

 

[unusuallyconfused]

I have two teenagers and both are extrememly self confident and self assured people. Both have values, occasionally have the smart ass mouth, but overall are really good kids. My son even believes (god help him) that I am the wisest adult that he knows and he is 17. They are from a broken home, raised by babysitters during the day, yet have been able to rise above those situations and become very independent and full of morals and values.

I believe if you are part of their lives on a daily basis and give them unconditional love, most likely you are ultimately their role model. I know my daughters good days, bad days, who is nasty and who is nice. I help her with her daily burdens or share her accomplishments. It is nice to have outside influences, but the one with the most impact usually is right in their own home.

 

[WildHoney]

A role model? I never had a role model, at least not the way you described one to be. My parents were not role models unless you want to call alcoholics and abusers role models. It's funny, but to be quite honest with all of you, the role models I turned to were the boys who promised love and affection as I was growing up. I would sneak out of the house and meet them on a corner. As soon as I was there they would show me their love with their kisses and hugs. Do you want to know something? Yes, even though I was being used in that way, I still felt much more love from them then I did from my mom and dad.

As for teachers, I would like to think that I've made a difference to a young one. I have seen what I've done and how I've affected them in the way they greet me when they see me in the grocery store and walking on the street. I am always greeted with a hug and such a beautiful, warm smile. Not just from the children either, but from their parents as well. I have never turned away a child when they needed a hug or to talk about something that's bothered them. I am what my parents were not. I listen, never judge, and never expect more than they can give. To me, that's a true role model. Showing someone that they can make a difference, showing someone they are good and worthy, showing someone that it's okay to make a mistake as long as you try to mend it or go beyond it and remember it for the next time so you don't go back and do it again. Those qualities are what make a good role model. In my life, right now, I would like to say that I am fortunate enough to know many people who fit that role so very nicely. To them, I would like to say "Thank you for being there for me".

WildHoney

 

[unusuallyconfused]

A role model? I never had a role model, at least not the way you described one to be. My parents were not role models unless you want to call alcoholics and abusers role models. Those qualities are what make a good role model. In my life, right now, I would like to say that I am fortunate enough to know many people who fit that role so very nicely. To them, I would like to say "Thank you for being there for me".

WildHoney

Did we grow up in the same house? Sometimes a person is able to dig themselves out of the shit and become a good and kind person in spite of their upbringing. I had absolutely no one. No role models and felt that there wasn't one person on Gods Green Earth that cared for me. I just vowed that I would never ever be like that. I hopefully achieved that. It sounds like you have strength of character to rise above it. That makes the best of people, I believe.

 

[cymbidia]

kudos

Like i said up there aways, negative role models can be more powerful influences in our lives than can positive role models.

I offer my heartfelt respect to all of you who reached deeply inside yourselves and found the strength of character necessary to rise above dismal beginnings in terms of life circumstances and family interactions. Such is a hard road, and harder still is to travel it and come out the other end a good person.

 

[Morden]

Re: Re: Latchkey kids of the world unite!

Why have kids if you're not going to be able to be there for them?
You shoulda heard the kinds of stuff "they" were saying about teenagers when i was one. ~laughing~ No, no.. there truly "is nothing new under the sun". [Ecclesiastes 1,9]

Just like fashions, it's all just recycled angst, guys, sorry. [/B]

I would agree only on a fundamental level here Cym. the basics are the same yes but the degree of destitution has increased. I think the sadest thing is the amount of people that have been kicked out of thier homes. I do not know how this is in other parts of the world. I have seen a large number of people ousted by thier parents becuase of thier "rebelious nature". That coupled with the hieghtened divorce rates and children being exposed to step parents, or single parent families. It's quite astonishing. The problem I guess is not that its so much worse just covering a larging number of children.

 

[Weevil]

The biggest problem with the generations of today is that they lack solid leadership. I am not talking parents or teachers, but rather the unspoken leadership of a quality Role-Model. I mean don't get me wrong I love a lot of the current culture in teh world. The thing is there are virtually NO role-models in this day and age that represent the belief's of Honour, Loyalty, and the most important one Respect!.

As someone in his early 20's I suppose I count as being in the "Generations of today" and I'm at a loss for how to respond. The problem with your statement is a lack of specifics. Are you saying our generation has no Honour, Loyalty or Respect? And, if so, where are you getting this from?

I've had many role models, so to speak, who've taught me important things and I think I've got some of the 3 three things mentioned above.

I think what you're really getting at is that the generations of today have a different Idea of what those 3 things are and what they mean, in which case I'll take this generation over any that came before us.

 

[Morden]

I think what you're really getting at is that the generations of today have a different Idea of what those 3 things are and what they mean, in which case I'll take this generation over any that came before us.

I agree totally that they do have a diferent idea of what they mean. Though personally I am not sure if I like the main stream ideals they have changed into. As far as being specific, I would like to see where most teenagers draw thier moral stand points from on these subjects. I think it would be interesting to see. All though I do not blame the media or video games or anything else for this. I just find that its hard to see where they get thier current ideas of these subjects. It just seems to me that there is no real solid core of morality from which they can draw upon to shape the rest of thier experiences. Again, I am referrring to outside of the parental situation. More in fact to reinforce the family the values set upon by the parents or to dispell them.

(BTW, thanks everyone for responding so honestly. I am really enjoying where this is going and it is opening my mind a little more)