Thank God...Bush Is Still Alive...

[p_p_man]

...I was about to dig him up.

So he's going ahead with ABM at breakneck speed. Fort Greely in Alaska ia going to be the proud owner of five new silos (hey inhabitants around Fort Greely...are you getting all this?) and the Russian Bear is making growling noises about the complete violation of any anti-ballistic treaty between your two countries. Even the Senate is hearing speeches that any previous agreements will be obsolete in months rather than years.

All this to guard against some rogue terrorist in some vague outpost of an unamed country who may or may not have access to nuclear weapons.

Now who was the Pretender talking to after the coffee and cakes "summit" in Europe. His Dad? His Texas mates? An inner circle of hardliners who see communism like everyone else sees beatiful naked women - everywhere?

So my Lit friends in the States be prepared to pour billions and billions of dollars into a project which is blatently a non-starter to fulfil the promise a man once made to his paymasters when he was seeking election.

Well at least he's back as mad as ever. Now we can get down to some decent debating, This is a sure sign that the end of summer has arrived early.

So Lavvy & Co, drop your harmless chit chat which seems to irritate WriterDom so much, choose your weapons, and let battle commence...

 

[registered "^^"]

republicans

own or control most defense contracting companies. no surprise here, just look back at everytime we have had a republican pres. defense spending soars.

 

[Weevil]

Truth be told I'm tired of politicking. There's no resolution or respect for opposing viewpoints. I did love AJ's response a while back to my statements about Star Wars violating the '72 IBM treaty. They were, to the best of my recollection, along the lines of "We can break treaties with the Russians 'coz their so dishonorable. Commie Bastards"

How do you argue with that?

 

[registered "^^"]

reagan-star wars

republican, defense spending. democrats state spending. building new prisons etc, etc,

 

[p_p_man]

LOL

Truth be told I'm tired of politicking. There's no resolution or respect for opposing viewpoints. I did love AJ's response a while back to my statements about Star Wars violating the '72 IBM treaty. They were, to the best of my recollection, along the lines of "We can break treaties with the Russians 'coz their so dishonorable. Commie Bastards"

How do you argue with that?

You may be EBW but others may not. Just don't join in.

Any response A_J gives usually makes me smile. Forthright and to the point, no messing...that's the way to do it!

 

[Weevil]

Re: LOL

You may be EBW but others may not. Just don't join in.

Oh a challenge eh?????

 

[Siren]

I cant speak for the entire Lavy & Co. but I will say.......

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: LOL

Oh a challenge eh?????

The gauntlet is thrown down, the glove is slapped across the face (twice), the note is thrust under your door...

AND SIREN:

That's one reason we have these politico threads...to let off steam...

 

[floridaguy64]

Well the way I figure it.............

I served in the Marine Corps under Reagan............... those were good years.

Reagan pushed for and delivered to America a much needed tax cut.............. to which we prospered as a world power for 18 years. Under Bush,Sr........ we came to know a kindler and gentler world. Under Clinton, we came to know the defamation of the White House.............blow jobs n pizza in the Oval Oriface??????. Now that sucks! Pardon the pun.

Under Dubya................... we begin a regression to the Reagan years............hopefully not as bad as when Ron took over from Jimmy Carter. Anyone here remember those Carter Years besides me? When the prime lending rate was 20 PERCENT????? when a 100k home cost you 3.8 million over the course of a 30 year loan? People lost everything under Carter..........Anyone remember our embasy in Iran???????? When were my Marine brothers and their embassy charges released? I'll remind you..... As Ronald Reagan was taking the oath of office, the plane was leaving Iranian airspace towards freedom.

I am not, nor will I ever embellish world domination............... but people, remember ONE THING........... we are America......... former slaves to Britain.......... former slave holders at that............ but in as much, we are the example to the world of what a free society can achieve. And for the socialists among the group......Ask our Canadian bretheren which country they would rather have a healthcare concern in.........the USA or Canada? (long uncaring lines......or immediate care?........... we are teetering towards the long lines daily).

And by the way...................DID YOU KNOW????????? That there are over 50 million................yes, MILLION...........Russian Kalashnikov Rifles........ AKA........ AK47's on the open worldwide black market today?................ at the average 50 round capacity of these weapons, forget about an atomic bomb destroying the world............ the 3rd world holders of these weapons could kill everyone on earth 10 times over .

And on that note................in Uganda this month..............democratic forces used machetes to hack to death over 800 people because thay had differing opinions. Now that is sheer brutality, the like of which even Hitler only dreamed of practicing.



The way I figure it...................as a Medically Retired US Marine (FORCED RETIREMENT).................We create peace with the threat of supiorority......... threat only, as only a fool engages in war!

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Well the way I figure it.............

I served in the Marine Corps under Reagan............... those were good years.

Reagan pushed for and delivered to America a much needed tax cut.............. to which we prospered as a world power for 18 years. Under Bush,Sr........ we came to know a kindler and gentler world. Under Clinton, we came to know the defamation of the White House.............blow jobs n pizza in the Oval Oriface??????. Now that sucks! Pardon the pun.

Under Dubya................... we begin a regression to the Reagan years............hopefully not as bad as when Ron took over from Jimmy Carter. Anyone here remember those Carter Years besides me? When the prime lending rate was 20 PERCENT????? when a 100k home cost you 3.8 million over the course of a 30 year loan? People lost everything under Carter..........Anyone remember our embasy in Iran???????? When were my Marine brothers and their embassy charges released? I'll remind you..... As Ronald Reagan was taking the oath of office, the plane was leaving Iranian airspace towards freedom.

I am not, nor will I ever embellish world domination............... but people, remember ONE THING........... we are America......... former slaves to Britain.......... former slave holders at that............ but in as much, we are the example to the world of what a free society can achieve. And for the socialists among the group......Ask our Canadian bretheren which country they would rather have a healthcare concern in.........the USA or Canada? (long uncaring lines......or immediate care?........... we are teetering towards the long lines daily).

And by the way...................DID YOU KNOW????????? That there are over 50 million................yes, MILLION...........Russian Kalashnikov Rifles........ AKA........ AK47's on the open worldwide black market today?................ at the average 50 round capacity of these weapons, forget about an atomic bomb destroying the world............ the 3rd world holders of these weapons could kill everyone on earth 10 times over .

And on that note................in Uganda this month..............democratic forces used machetes to hack to death over 800 people because thay had differing opinions. Now that is sheer brutality, the like of which even Hitler only dreamed of practicing.



The way I figure it...................as a Medically Retired US Marine (FORCED RETIREMENT).................We create peace with the threat of supiorority......... threat only, as only a fool engages in war!

A big post.

I quite liked Reagan. I thought when it was necessary he used just the right amount of forceful language. Remember Reykjavik and the "Evil Empire". Under his administartion he created a strong economy.

Bush the Dad creating a kinder, gentler America? My memory's too short for that one. All I can remember is he vomited into the lap of another world leader. So I wouldn't say he made a great impression on me.

Clinton and Blow jobs. Is that the only argument you have against the man. Very knowledgeable on Foreign Affairs. Great help in pushing the Irish Peace Process along. Raised America's positive profile extrememly high on the world stage. Even had a question and answer session on Moscow TV. And took over a sax playing role when in a night club with, I think, Poland's Head of State. If anything I would say he was the man who created a kinder, gentler America. And a more popular one.

Iran freeing the hostages was much to do with Reagan. Iran just hated Carter and kept the hostages back until after inaugeration.

As for America showing the rest of the world just what a free country can achieve I presime you think America has achieved a lot. Hmmm!

I'm quite a regular visitor to my local hospital in the UK and I don't see many long queues of patients waiting to be seen. If it's a real emergency you're seen immediately and if it's not you're told how long the wait is so you can go for a cup of tea, or shopping or do something else. Just don't be late back.

No I didn't know there are over 50 million Russian Kalashnikov rifles on the open world wide black market today. How did you find out? And third world countries kill can everyone on earth 10 times over. How many times can America kill everyone on earth? Or are you saying because you're a sophisticated, western, educated country everyone can trust you. Excuse me...aahhheemmmm!.

Even sophisticated, western, educated countries can have mad men, or idiots, at the helm.

Machetes in Uganda eh? Well I suppose it makes a change to guns in American schools.

 

[Weevil]

Reagan is probably the only president who could preside over a gigantic stock market collapse and be credited with creating a "strong economy"

 

[p_p_man]

LOL...Oh yeah...

how could I forget a thing that big?...

 

[Weevil]

Re: LOL...Oh yeah...

how could I forget a thing that big?...

Truth of the matter is that most of the recession under Bush was a result of Reagan's outspending the enemy strategery.

 

[Problem Child]

Reagan is probably the only president who could preside over a gigantic stock market collapse and be credited with creating a "strong economy"

My friend, I wish I could figure out where you get these bass-ackward ideas about recent history.

I know you hate Reagan, probably more than I loathe Clinton, But I would never deny Clinton his props for doing a good job with the American economy.

Floridaguy is right about Carter. Our economy was in the toilet then. Do you know what double digit inflation and interest rates are like, especially together? Probably not. That was a DEEP recession, the closest thing we've had to a depression since 1929. Reagan's policy's pulled us out of it.

The downturn at the end of the eighties was mild compared to what went on in the late 70's and early eighties.

You should study up some more and not let your bias get in the way so much.

 

[lavender]

 

[Problem Child]

Well, whatever.

If the late eighties were a "terrible recession" then the Carter years were a depression. It's all relative, and you've never lived through a terrible recession, just like I've never lived through a depression. I could run out and find a person for every one of your friends that would swear to God that Reagan saved the country after Carter.

I think Reagan did a good job turning the economy around, and Clinton did a good job keeping it going and making it better. Having said that, I think the single person most responsible for the relative good economy on average of the last twenty years is Alan Greenspan, more than anyone.

Face it, EBW thinks Reagan was (is) the anti-christ, and you're not far behind, so what's the point of arguing it?

It's like trying to tell a holocaust survivor Hitler was an ok dude if you overlook the gas chambers.

 

[lavender]

 

[Closet Desire]

I'm hesitant...

...to put blame or credit on a president for what happens overall in the economy or the society, regardless of political party. It's just too dynamic and there are too many influences at play to narrow it down. Besides, the legislature has the final say on whether a policy is go-no go.

On the economy...a man I used to do consulting work with was (still is) a well-respected futures expert. He has been publishing his books and newsletters for over a decade now. I was finishing up some work early one morning and he was finishing he projections for the day. He asked me if I believed in astrology. I snorted and said "no." He then asked me if I believed astrology could affect the markets. I again said "no." He called me over to his computer which had a satellite link for real-time market feeds. He showed me a spike on the graph and told me that was the result of trading by people who DO trade on astrological signs. He said their belief system may be ridiculous, but the effect they can have on the market is real and measurable and, more importantly, predictable. Those who know what the different systems are can often predict what effect it will have in the market. I think this is the foundation of most of his predictions. My point is only to illustrate how dynamic the whole thing is. I think politics does have influence, but it certainly isn't the only thing.

As for the ABM treaty. It was curious to read on CNN.com this morning that Bush's camp is saying moving ahead doesn't "violate" the ABM treaty...it "abrogates" it. Apparently this is different. I am wondering what all this whiz-bang high-altitude technology is going to be used for. There doesn't seem to be a credible threat from any of the so-called "rogue nations" and while some of them are close to having nuclear capability the irony is that they are unlikely to have a delivery system (other than UPS) for delivering a warhead to the US. I would think it far more likely that Pakistan or India might exchange atomic pleasantries with one another rather than risk an attack on a nation with over 10,000 warheads in its inventory.

We used to think the USSR was as crazy as Iraq or North Korea yet the threat of total annihilation seemed to distill some sanity into the rhetoric of both sides. If North Korea, for example, did manage to build and deliver a nuclear weapon (and it actually worked), I don't think there would be many countries willing to stand in the way of retribution.

I'm far more fearful of the potential to use biological/chemical weapons and the absolute lack of ability to deal with them. A flesh-eating bacteria that has been genetically modified to be immune to antibiotics? Scary stuff.

I wouldn't be too quick, either, to point the finger at Russia or China for supplying small arms. As someone already pointed out, these are killing far more people (especially women and children) than atomic weapons ever did. The US is still a major player in this game and, if memory is correct, is one the largest suppliers of land-mines like those which continue to kill people every day in Bosnia.

Just a few early morning thoughts.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

The recession is Clinton's.
Last year, 401K's lost money after 20 years of growth. Who was in office and who got hammered by the press for using the "R" word.
My previous point on the ABM was once the evil empire was in a state of collapse and we got to some of thier records we found they had benn happily violating the sucker all along while continually pointing the finger at the US as being the bad guys.

WHAT A HOOT!

er