Terminology

[KABUKISTAR]

I was thinking about the words we use to describe sexual orientation, and I thought I'd share my musings with you all.

The words we use to describe sexuality right now ("gay," "straight") don't really make sense to me, because they describe who you like, not as a pure piece of information, but as reflexive nouns, in relation to what you are. This creates some weird situations, for instance, it uses the same word (straight) to describe a woman who likes men and a man who likes women, implying that they have the same sexuality, when in reality their preferences are opposite.
Similarilly, this system uses the same word to describe a man who likes men, and a woman who likes women; impling that they have the same sexual preferenes, when they are the exact opposite.

To me, it makes so much more sense to describe someone as girl-liking, or boy-liking, than as same-sex-liking or opposite-sex-liking. After all, your sexuality is about what sort of people you like, not what sort of person you are, so the terminology should, logically reflect that.

Which is why I've been using phases like girl-liking, and boy-liking for some time, now, instead of straight and gay ("bisexual" and "pansexual" are pretty much the same either way).

The current way people reffer to sexuality also makes things difficult for some groups of people: if you don't particularilly identify with either of the main genders, then neither "gay" nor "straight" can really describe you, because they require you to be pushed into either the male or female gender before they can describe what you like in relation to what you are.
If we use words, though,that don't describe who you like compared to who you are, that problem doesn't exist.

Any comments?

 

[StrixVaria]

I've adopted "nontraditionally straight" or "straight queer" at times. Most of my friends are gay, I support gay rights, I've had L,G, B and T roommates, but tend to be exclusively attracted to women.

Most of the people I run across in Gay space tend to "get it" and respect my preference in bedmates as well as my unequivocal support for the community.

But, that's just me, your milage may varry - of course, the Lesbians didn't really trust me until after the incident with the "God Hates Fags" crowd folks two years ago, when I jumped into an altercation with a few of them harrassing a couple of 16 year old girls from Youth Pride and got my ass handed to me.... that seemed to win me a spot as an unofficial lesbian.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

How are "nontraditionally straight" and "straight queer" different from straight?

 

[StrixVaria]

Why do I bother?

Nevermind.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

Why do I bother?

Nevermind.

I'm serious; if you just like women, then you have the same sexual orientation as all the other men that like women.
Having LGBTQ friends and being supportive of them does not qualify as a seperate sexuality.

 

[StrixVaria]

"Straight Queer" is meant as more of a political term, meaning that I walk many of the same roads and have suffered the same outrages that society has to offer. I am an ally. In this sense, Queer simply means different.

 

[Etoile]

I'm inclined to agree with Kabukistar. We had a thread very recently where the subject came up, "how do you define people who are supportive of gays, friends with them, share their experiences, etc." Somebody said something like "straight gay" or something like that. My answer to the question is the same now as it was then: such people are called Allies.

If someone uses "gay" or "semi-gay" or any other variant to describe themselves, I assume they are referring to their own sexual orientation, not who they support. Using the term "gay" when you're not feels like it's taking away from people who are gay. The word I prefer to see is "ally."

However, I feel differently about the word "queer." It's much more broad, more all-encompassing. I know kinky people who identify as "queer" because their sexual preference is outside the mainstream. I would still expect someone calling themself "queer" to have some sort of non-heterosexual, non-kinky element to their sexuality, but the term is a lot more flexible.

And Kabukistar, you're quite right that "gay" and "lesbian" reinforce the gender binary. That's another place I like the term queer - to describe someone who is outside the binary, or someone who is open to love outside the binary. It's inclusive.

 

[minsue]

I've adopted "nontraditionally straight" or "straight queer" at times. Most of my friends are gay, I support gay rights, I've had L,G, B and T roommates, but tend to be exclusively attracted to women.

Most of the people I run across in Gay space tend to "get it" and respect my preference in bedmates as well as my unequivocal support for the community.

But, that's just me, your milage may varry - of course, the Lesbians didn't really trust me until after the incident with the "God Hates Fags" crowd folks two years ago, when I jumped into an altercation with a few of them harrassing a couple of 16 year old girls from Youth Pride and got my ass handed to me.... that seemed to win me a spot as an unofficial lesbian.

Out of curiosity - if a white person marches in a MLK day parade, does that make them an honorary African American? This isn't sarcastic and isn't really aimed at you personally. I just find it strange that heterosexuals who support gay rights feel like they need a title of some sort and feel the need to identify themselves almost as if they're members of a club when people who support any other human rights cause that doesn't effect them directly don't seem to do that. I only see it with gay rights and I'm curious about why.

I'm not trying to be rude, honest. I just feel like I'm missing something and I'm trying to understand.

 

[talimenios]

But, that's just me, your milage may varry - of course, the Lesbians didn't really trust me until after the incident with the "God Hates Fags" crowd folks two years ago, when I jumped into an altercation with a few of them harrassing a couple of 16 year old girls from Youth Pride and got my ass handed to me.... that seemed to win me a spot as an unofficial lesbian.

You just became one of my favorite people of the day. Just had to say that.

As for 'terminology' it doesn't seem to me like it really matters in any way but I'm against labelling in any form. I would technically classify myself as bi-sexual but I'm in a very comitted relationship with a woman. So really it all depends on how you want to classify. And as far as I'm concerned classification is only to stick people into a stereotype and I'd like to stay away from that.

It seems to me that so much of the world is anti-gay that everything becomes black or white. Gay or Straight so no matter what we feel/think/are we're stuck with that.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

If we start shifting towards seeing as "boy-liking" and "girl-liking" rather than "opposie-liking" and "same-liking," it could frame things in such a way that people would see that the preferences of man who likes men isn't any more perverted/devious/weird than that of a woman who likes men.

Atleast, that's the hope *crosses fingers*.

I know that no post made in the literotica forums will ever change the world, but if you like this way of identifying sexuality makes more sense to you, like it does to me, and you see it as being less stigmatizing and more inclusive, like I do, then there's no reason you can't use it in your own life.

 

[naughtyinsilk]

If we start shifting towards seeing as "boy-liking" and "girl-liking" rather than "opposie-liking" and "same-liking," it could frame things in such a way that people would see that the preferences of man who likes men isn't any more perverted/devious/weird than that of a woman who likes men.

Atleast, that's the hope *crosses fingers*.

I know that no post made in the literotica forums will ever change the world, but if you like this way of identifying sexuality makes more sense to you, like it does to me, and you see it as being less stigmatizing and more inclusive, like I do, then there's no reason you can't use it in your own life.

I do actually like your suggestion of guy liking and girl liking it definitely is a big improvement. I suggest for Bi though we stick to "greedy"

 

[KABUKISTAR]

I do actually like your suggestion of guy liking and girl liking it definitely is a big improvement. I suggest for Bi though we stick to "greedy"

Whatever floats your boat. "Bisexual" is a fine phrase by me, since it doesn't really change either way you look at it.

 

[StrixVaria]

Out of curiosity - if a white person marches in a MLK day parade, does that make them an honorary African American? This isn't sarcastic and isn't really aimed at you personally. I just find it strange that heterosexuals who support gay rights feel like they need a title of some sort and feel the need to identify themselves almost as if they're members of a club when people who support any other human rights cause that doesn't effect them directly don't seem to do that. I only see it with gay rights and I'm curious about why.

I'm not trying to be rude, honest. I just feel like I'm missing something and I'm trying to understand.

Think of it more along the lines of the three civil rights workers who were murdered in Mississippi, It's a little higher level of involment - same lines, but more intense. Hopefully, that makes you feel a little better. I'll leave this alone at this point, since I was trying more to be helpful than to ruffle feathers.

 

[minsue]

Think of it more along the lines of the three civil rights workers who were murdered in Mississippi, It's a little higher level of involment - same lines, but more intense. Hopefully, that makes you feel a little better. I'll leave this alone at this point, since I was trying more to be helpful than to ruffle feathers.

Oh, you didn't ruffle my feathers at all and I sincerely apologize if I came across as if you had. That wasn't my intent. I'm just confused and intrigued by the need to name &/or title straight people who support LGBT rights.

Like many people, I am passionate about various human rights causes that do not effect me directly (meaning simply that I am not a member of the group discriminated against, as a fellow human being it does effect me since it greatly offends my sense of right and wrong), but it would never occur to me to call myself an honorary <insert group of your choice here>. I've never seen anyone else do it, either, except in support of gay rights. It's just a strange cultural phenomenon that I don't understand. I guess I'm just trying to find the reasoning behind this. I don't get it, but it's so common that it seems like there's something obvious out there that I'm just not seeing so I'm trying to understand. That's all.

 

[StrixVaria]

Sometimes, it's just good to have a name for yourself other than your name. An example of this would be when you are hanging out at a lesbian bar on 25 cent beer night and need to be able to answer "What are YOU doing HERE?"

The ability to answer that question with "I'm a straight queer, hey, pass the pretzels" is pretty much invaluable. That answer also gives you the ability to respond to the challenge "all men in the bar must wear dresses" with, "Hey, got anything that would look good on me?" and not miss a beat.

The simple fact is that in some areas of Queer Space, you need a password or a key to enter. "Straight Queer" gives you that key without opening the door to unwanted advanes from cute boys in gold thongs.

 

[minsue]

Sometimes, it's just good to have a name for yourself other than your name. An example of this would be when you are hanging out at a lesbian bar on 25 cent beer night and need to be able to answer "What are YOU doing HERE?"

The ability to answer that question with "I'm a straight queer, hey, pass the pretzels" is pretty much invaluable. That answer also gives you the ability to respond to the challenge "all men in the bar must wear dresses" with, "Hey, got anything that would look good on me?" and not miss a beat.

The simple fact is that in some areas of Queer Space, you need a password or a key to enter. "Straight Queer" gives you that key without opening the door to unwanted advanes from cute boys in gold thongs.

That answers it then, thank you. I'd much rather stay home with my wife than go clubbing, when someone hits on me I simply decline, and I wouldn't have the faintest idea where "Queer Space" is so that explains why it all seems so strange to me. More of a cultural thing than anything else then, got it.

Thank you again for your answer.

 

[StrixVaria]

That's why I was a little unsure about the direction of this thread. I wasn't trying to claim "false honor", I was just trying to make clear that sometimes - in certain areas of town - the tag, "Straight Queer" works really well. It lets those around you know that you are a friend and also avoids the uncomfortable situation of someone trying to set you up with one of their friends...

 

[naughtyinsilk]

Whatever floats your boat. "Bisexual" is a fine phrase by me, since it doesn't really change either way you look at it.

*removes tongue out of cheek*

 

[KABUKISTAR]

That's why I was a little unsure about the direction of this thread. I wasn't trying to claim "false honor", I was just trying to make clear that sometimes - in certain areas of town - the tag, "Straight Queer" works really well. It lets those around you know that you are a friend and also avoids the uncomfortable situation of someone trying to set you up with one of their friends...

I believe "ally" is a popular phrase for those who are straight, but supportive of gays. I've also heard "straight-but-not-narrow".

 

[Etoile]

I believe "ally" is a popular phrase for those who are straight, but supportive of gays. I've also heard "straight-but-not-narrow".

*pouts*

I thought I said that already!

 

[naughtyinsilk]

I believe "ally" is a popular phrase for those who are straight, but supportive of gays. I've also heard "straight-but-not-narrow".

I prefer to be reffered to as a "good friend"

 

[KABUKISTAR]

That's why I was a little unsure about the direction of this thread. I wasn't trying to claim "false honor", I was just trying to make clear that sometimes - in certain areas of town - the tag, "Straight Queer" works really well. It lets those around you know that you are a friend and also avoids the uncomfortable situation of someone trying to set you up with one of their friends...

The way your using "queer," here, though, it's not really to describe sexual orientation, though; just your social views.

 

[playwithlezli]

Out of curiosity - if a white person marches in a MLK day parade, does that make them an honorary African American? This isn't sarcastic and isn't really aimed at you personally. I just find it strange that heterosexuals who support gay rights feel like they need a title of some sort and feel the need to identify themselves almost as if they're members of a club when people who support any other human rights cause that doesn't effect them directly don't seem to do that. I only see it with gay rights and I'm curious about why.

I'm not trying to be rude, honest. I just feel like I'm missing something and I'm trying to understand.

Been thinking about this-I think it happens in the native community too, white people who are supportive-becoming "honourary natives" etc.

 

[Etoile]

I still prefer to see such a person described as an "ally." As a gay person, I feel like calling oneself an "honorary gay person" or a "straight gay person" is trying to horn in on our territory. We are different, let us be different. We are gay, other people are straight. The term "ally" exists and is commonly used, see here, here, here, here, here, and here.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

Are you a boy-liking person, etoile, or a girl-liking person?