Temporary Marriages

[alexandraaah]

 

[Marxist]

What if I get married for a five year contract and love it and my partner doesn't and she wants out? Seems like we're back to the same problems we've always had...


Besides, the reason marriage was "invented" according to most sources is for the raising of children. A new dad or mom every five years? That means that an "average" child might have as many as 4 different complete sets of parents. Not a good prospect no matter how you look at it.


Oh, I forgot about child support...who pays?

I think we'll need 5X as many divorce lawyers to handle that proposed mess.

 

[*bratcat*]

 

[glamorilla]

Interesting concept Pagan.

I've obviously been working with the five week plan.

 

[Calamity Jane]

PCG- why say that if the parties know that the marriage will end at a certain date that they will work harder?

What happens when problems arise? Not everyone is going to work hard to save the marriage they know is going to end. Most people will just think to themselves, "Only another few months then I can get the hell out of here!"

From my viewpoint, when problems arise in my marriage, we're much more likely to think we have a long time to work through them. Afterall, we're young, and we'll be here a long time. There's absoltely no sense of urgency to make things work, because there's no time frame outside of silly ultimatums.

If you're working within a time frame, and assuming you actually love the person you're married to, then you know that if you don't get off your ass and make the relationship work within the time frame, then it's over.

 

[Kitte]

That is not marriage, marriage is not a contract. Marriage is commiting to work with someone to have a family be it just the two of you or with children.

It is not about saying hey lets give it a go.. and what if after 5 years only one partner wants to disolve the contract...what about when one partner is hurt or disabled in that time period, the person who would normally love and care for them would just be like well this wasnt in the contract.

Marriage is not easy...no one said it would be, people really ought to think about that BEFORE they commit to a lifetime with someone.

 

[AzureAngel]

Why, AA, is it sounding appealing?

Nope. I'm just wondering if it would be a second point of impermanence or the only option, save extreme circumstances.

 

[koalabear]

I understand what y'all are saying about families. But honestly, would you say that an unhappy, stale marriage that lasts 'forever' is a better environment for children than one in which the dynamics have changed?

I was lucky enough to have two wonderful fathers, thanks to my parent's divorce. I refuse to believe that the divorce 'fractured' our family, 'broke' our home, or did anything to us psychologically except show us that sometimes, it's ok to not be in love anymore, and that people can behave like adults even when they're hurting.

Ok, you have 5 years.......marriage goes to hell in one. Then you have 4 years of shit, still not good for kids. Might as well leave it as is and bail when you want. Everyone might be as lucky as you were and have 2 wonderful dads, but I doubt it.

 

[Calamity Jane]

What if I get married for a five year contract and love it and my partner doesn't and she wants out? Seems like we're back to the same problems we've always had...


Besides, the reason marriage was "invented" according to most sources is for the raising of children. A new dad or mom every five years? That means that an "average" child might have as many as 4 different complete sets of parents. Not a good prospect no matter how you look at it.


Oh, I forgot about child support...who pays?

I think we'll need 5X as many divorce lawyers to handle that proposed mess.

You can stay married as long as you want. No one is saying that you HAVE to end it after 5 years. If one partner wants out and the other one doesn't, then yes, that's a problem.

I'm not suggesting new parents every 5 years. I'm pretty sure if I left my marriage, I'd be single for quite some time, if not forever. And it's not like I'm suggesting we kill off one of the spouses after 5 years. The kids aren't losing a parent, they're living arrangements might be changed.

Child support would be paid by the parent not having physical custody. Dollar amounts would be placed on things like laundry, cooking, etc, and the non custodial parent would be responsible for 50% of the child's care.

 

[Tyrael]

Kitte raises a good point.

What does happen if one person doesn't want the marriage to end?

 

[Calamity Jane]

Kitte raises a good point.

What does happen if one person doesn't want the marriage to end?

I'm not saying it's a perfect idea. I'm not even sure that it would work for me, and I'm the one who posted it. What I'm thinking is, that our current idea of marriage obviously doesn't work in our society. Hence the divorce rate. I don't believe that the rate of divorce is so high because people are lazy, or because they lack commitment, or because it's no longer important to forge a family against all odds. I DO think that it's one hell of a lot to ask for two people who may love each other to distraction, want to spend forever exploring that love, and raise children together as an extension of that love, to still feel that way 20 years down the road.

Yeah, I know marriage isn't supposed to be easy. I'm currently living in a hard marriage. Am I ready to walk away? Sometimes. What keeps me in it 99% of the time is the fact that I gave my word to be here 'til death'. Yes, it's possible that if I hadn't had to say those particular words, I may have left already. The words, the promise are what keep me where I am. It's an honor thing. I'm not the only person I know who feels bound more by a sense of duty than a sense of love. I have a hard time believing that that's healthy.

 

[Marxist]

Marriage is at its most basic level about kids. In your example PCG, that's not the case. Without that being the prime consideration any variation on marriage for the masses is doomed.

 

[patient1]

Interesting. It needs more thought when my ibuprofen kicks in.
5year commitment? Sounds like college or the military to me.


I imagine it's got a lot to do with the people involved, what they make of it, but that's life- what you make of it .

 

[Calamity Jane]

Marriage is at its most basic level about kids. In your example PCG, that's not the case. Without that being the prime consideration any variation on marriage for the masses is doomed.

So a marriage that doesn't result in children is less valid?

 

[Marxist]

So a marriage that doesn't result in children is less valid?

Nope. But in the eyes of almost every religion, East or West, and most of our laws, marriage is simply a vessel for a homelife for children.

Sorry if that seems unpleasant or burdensome, but that's life.


And it's also the reason I'm not married.

 

[Tyrael]

I'm not saying it's a perfect idea. I'm not even sure that it would work for me, and I'm the one who posted it. What I'm thinking is, that our current idea of marriage obviously doesn't work in our society. Hence the divorce rate. I don't believe that the rate of divorce is so high because people are lazy, or because they lack commitment, or because it's no longer important to forge a family against all odds. I DO think that it's one hell of a lot to ask for two people who may love each other to distraction, want to spend forever exploring that love, and raise children together as an extension of that love, to still feel that way 20 years down the road.

Yeah, I know marriage isn't supposed to be easy. I'm currently living in a hard marriage. Am I ready to walk away? Sometimes. What keeps me in it 99% of the time is the fact that I gave my word to be here 'til death'. Yes, it's possible that if I hadn't had to say those particular words, I may have left already. The words, the promise are what keep me where I am. It's an honor thing. I'm not the only person I know who feels bound more by a sense of duty than a sense of love. I have a hard time believing that that's healthy.

It's a good thing you want to stay around and work things out in your marriage, not many people are willing to do that these days. They throw their hands up and walk away the second they don't get their way.

Maybe marriage is in the gutter because so many people go into it with unrealistic views about what marriage "should" be, about how the other partner is "supposed" to act. And in some cases I think some people are just concerned about themselves and what they can get from the whole affair.

And if people are too lazy, too inconsiderate, too immature to work throught their problems and to stick it out through the bad times as well as the good, what makes us think that they would bother to stick it out 2, 5, or 7 years?

I'm not trying to tear you down....it's just that only the people in the marriage can save the marriage, and if they aren't willing to try there's nothing else that can be done.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Nope. But in the eyes of almost every religion, East or West, and most of our laws, marriage is simply a vessel for a homelife for children.

Sorry if that seems unpleasant or burdensome, but that's life.


And it's also the reason I'm not married.

I understand that Marxist. I'm just throwing an idea out there. It's not that it's either unpleasant or burdensome. But I can count at least 10 'families' off the top of my head in which the children would be better off if the parents weren't living in the same household.

 

[Marxist]

I understand that Marxist. I'm just throwing an idea out there. It's not that it's either unpleasant or burdensome. But I can count at least 10 'families' off the top of my head in which the children would be better off if the parents weren't living in the same household.

I totally agree.

Marriage is no guarantee of a real homelife for kids. But what are the alternatives? We can't mandate morality.

 

[Laurel]

Besides kids and taxes, there are other reasons to get married...such as making decisions for the partner should he/she become incapacitated or even die.

I don't know if more people would marry if it could be temporary. I think most people who consider marriage believe in their hearts that they'll be with that person forever and ever.

But who knows...

 

[Gamelover221]

I think this is an amazing post. This is something I've thought off and on at various times in my life. I vaguely recall some book series I read that had a sociaty with 1 year marriage contracts in it.

I'm an economics major in college, and based upon my studies I think something like this has potential. The reason that I think something like that could work comes from the fact that people respond to incentives.

I've heard comments saying "If there's a time limit then people won't try because it's going to end." This is a very false statement potentially. Think of the situation like running for an election. A president is elected for 4 year terms. When does the president do the most work? He does the most near the end of the term to make sure he gets re-elected. The same would happen with couples.

If you want to stay together, you will have to work hard to impress each other. Assuming the couple isn't planning to get a divorce as soon as things get rough, in a typical marriage things get stale after so long because both partners know that no matter what they do they will be "together forever".

Sometimes people stay together simply because they have children. This could still be done even with a contract system if they felt the same way, nothing changes at all. If people chose to take advantage of the system for one reason or another, they would be increasing their overall happiness vs the previous situation.

That's my thoughts on the subject. I'm not saying that I support it fully or that I'd even vote on it if the situation arrived, but its an interesting concept. I personally like to humor the idea of romance a bit, and this situation does put a damper on that...

 

[Velius]

Do you think more people would get married... and stay married... if it was a temporary arrangement?

Let's say you sign a marriage contract for a 5 year term. At the end of 5 years, you have the option of renewal or the option of walking away with 50% of the assests accrued during the marriage. Both partners know going into the contract that it's for a limited term. Support for the children of any union is agreed upon prior to their births... each parent providing 50%, with monetary values applied to physical custody.

You don't have to worry about waking up one morning and thinking "Oh, my god. This is the person I'm going to wake up with for the next 50 years."

Makes sense to me biologically too. There would be more options for diversity in the gene pool if we didn't stay with the same people forever and ever.

Yes, that makes sense to me too. It doesn't really seem natural, IMO, to stay with one person indefinitely. My parents got divorced while I was young, and it didn't bother me a whit. Just seems more reasonable to me.

 

[Olivianna]

Temporary marriage, or mut'ah in Arabic, was commonplace in pre-Islamic Arab tribes. It was permitted by the Prophet initially, but later was considered forbidden in hadith. However, some Muslims today still practice mut'ah. I remember reading an article about its recent popularity in Iran. Also, a Muslim friend of mine was married temporarily to a man from Bahrain. Worth looking into - mut'ah, that is, and its contemporary practice.

 

[Samuari]

Hienlein explored a variety of marital arangements thought out his literary career. Contracts were one of them, so were polyandries and line mariages. He saw mariage as having two basic purposes:

for the adults; muital suport, comfort, friendship, and sex of course

for the children (if ther were any): a stable, safe and stimulateing enviroment to grow into responciable adults.

He felt that no marriage could be sucessful that didn't do both, and that no form of marriage was correct for all people.

One of my favorite quotes form him " Forgive him. He thinks that the customs of his village are laws of nature."

 

[teddybear4play]

Sorry, pagan, but I'm not with it. I can understand the idea if there weren't going to be children involved, but that's never a guarantee.

You're lucky in the sense that your father was still around for you. Mine wasn't. And it's only now, after 15+ years, that I can look at the effect it's had on my psychological well-being.

Children, even very young ones, pick up very easily on the examples their parents set. That's why problem kids very often come from broken homes. If they see that their parents had an "aw, fuck it" or "what the hell, I'll give it a whirl" attitude towards something as important as marriage and child-rearing, they'll tend to follow that pattern throughout their lives.

Making marriages temporary might erase the superficial stigma of "divorce," but if they're still a revolving door, the deeper problems will still be there, and likely be exacerbated.

TB4p

 

[Laurel]

Hienlein explored a variety of marital arangements thought out his literary career. Contracts were one of them, so were polyandries and line mariages. He saw mariage as having two basic purposes:

for the adults; muital suport, comfort, friendship, and sex of course

for the children (if ther were any): a stable, safe and stimulateing enviroment to grow into responciable adults.

He felt that no marriage could be sucessful that didn't do both, and that no form of marriage was correct for all people.

One of my favorite quotes form him " Forgive him. He thinks that the customs of his village are laws of nature."

A great writer, and a smart dude.