Tell Me More about Global Warming

[Boxlicker101]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_winter_weather

 

[Stella_Omega]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_winter_weather

Those scientists can't fool you, hey Box?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Those scientists can't fool you, hey Box?

Do you mean the scientists who are telling me how this is one of the coldest recent winters? I don't think they are trying to fool me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That trickster, Dubya, stole America's global warming surplus.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Tell you about GLOBAL warming?

Well, Box, it starts with the idea that the US is just a small part of the global weather system. It's the most important part, of course, and weather in the US means more because of our global military influence; but still, other countries have their own weather, too.

You know, in the "Southern Hemisphere", they have "summer" while we have "winter". I realize, it's all so confusing.

 

[rgraham666]

Ah. Why bother?

 

[oggbashan]

Weather is what you have now.

Climate is what you have year on year, decade on decade, century on century.

Changing Climate affects weather. El Nino and La Nina affect weather over vast areas of the globe.

Global warming could mean colder and harsher winters for some; hotter summers and droughts for others; more frequent and more powerful storms elsewhere; flooding and dust storms somewhere else; bush fires in Australia; forest fires in California; etc.

Global warming does NOT mean that everywhere gets hotter. Apparently the most likely scenario for the UK is that the Gulf Stream either stops flowing or diverts away from us so that we have winters similar to those in Newfoundland. We're shivering now, unable to cope with a few inches of snow. Newfie weather? We'd shut down for winter.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OG? Spare us the propaganda; no one with two warm brain cells buys the bullshit & baloney. Its supposed to snow in Florida today.

 

[AngeloMichael]

OG? Spare us the propaganda; no one with two warm brain cells buys the bullshit & baloney. Its supposed to snow in Florida today.

That sure as hell sounds an awful lot like climate change to me!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That sure as hell sounds an awful lot like climate change to me!

Naaah. I keep records of Florida weather back to the 1700s when the British controlled us. In my lifetime it snowed in 1962, 1977, 1989, and today. The record temp in Florida is minus 2 degrees at Tallahassee in 1899; Miami was 25 degrees on the same day. Charlotte Harbor near Ft. Myers had ice in 1837.

 

[Guest]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_winter_weather

I'll never attempt to discuss anything with you, Box. Never again.

You ignore facts. You are obstinately obtuse. You refuse to fathom you may not possess all of the information or that your own thought processes are skewed.

I swear, my vision of you is with both hands over your ears shouting, "La, la, la, la, I can't hear you!"

And then you seem wounded when people become frustrated and put you on ignore, like many of us did during the last elections.

(And then you put this smilie up in mock surprise.)

No, thank you.

 

[Lisa Summers]

I thought the mantra was, "Global Warming causes global cooling"? I'm waiting for multi-millionaire Al Gore to lay that one on us.

 

[Liar]

I thought the mantra was, "Global Warming causes global cooling"? I'm waiting for multi-millionaire Al Gore to lay that one on us.

Global warming, or rather accelerated climate change up or down, causes increased local temperature fluctuations.

But that doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

 

[Guest]

Global warming, or rather accelerated climate change up or down, causes increased local temperature fluctuations.

But that doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

Or in a closed mind.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Global warming, or rather accelerated climate change up or down, causes increased local temperature fluctuations.

But that doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

You guys have all the bases covered, like chopper gunners in Vietnam..."If they run away theyre VC, if they stay theyre hardcore disciplined VC."

 

[Liar]

You guys have all the bases covered, like chopper gunners in Vietnam..."If they run away theyre VC, if they stay theyre hardcore disciplined VC."

It's easy to cover the bases, when the arguments against are mostly just mad-libs.

Global warming isn't real because ______ "my feet are cold" / "it was warmer in the middle ages" / "I say so"

and the whole thing is just a ______ "coverup" / "hoax" / "misunderstanding"

by _____ "enemies of progress" / "the egghead climatologists" / "Al Gore"

meant to ______ "divert attention" / "scam funding" / "institute a One World government"

with _____ . "anti Exxon conspiracies" / "taxpayer money" / "the Illuminati"

 

[Guest]

It's easy to cover the bases, when the arguments against are mostly just mad-libs.

Global warming isn't real because ______ "my feet are cold" / "it was warmer in the middle ages" / "I say so"

and the whole thing is just a ______ "coverup" / "hoax" / "misunderstanding"

by _____ "enemies of progress" / "the egghead climatologists" / "Al Gore"

meant to ______ "divert attention" / "scam funding" / "institute a One World government"

with _____ . "anti Exxon conspiracies" / "taxpayer money" / "the Illuminati"

Brilliant.

 

[trysail]

On CO2 residence times, fossil fuel contributions and mass balance:
http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Scientific/Segalstad.htm

Regarding pH and oceans and a paper on the problem with ice core data:
http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/zjmar07.pdf

Growth of the Antarctic icesheet:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/308/5730/1898

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't think trysail is a real person. I think he's a clever copy-and-paste bot someone cooked up.

 

[Lisa Summers]

Of course, 'weather' is not so much 'climate', but this is rather comical:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=35098

And given that ClimateGate 'scientists' decided to use tree rings as indicators of climate change UNTIL tree rings didn't support their global warming thesis, well, that's not science to me. (That was the 'trick' they talked about in their emails.)

In any case, the debate is not "over."

I am liberal - I am NOT stupid.

 

[oggbashan]

I don't think trysail is a real person. I think he's a clever copy-and-paste bot someone cooked up.

Whether he is or is not, the studies he quotes are contradicted by some of the quotes given as their sources.

The science is complex, the data sets are massive, but there is a considerable consensus outside the US that climate change is happening much faster than normal.

The crux is: If climate change is happening and we do nothing to try to prevent activities that accelerate the process we are heading for disasters in our children's lifetimes, BUT if we are wrong the acts to reduce the activities will not do harm. The consequences of failing to act are immense. The consequences of acting are comparatively minimal.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It's easy to cover the bases, when the arguments against are mostly just mad-libs.

Global warming isn't real because ______ "my feet are cold" / "it was warmer in the middle ages" / "I say so"

and the whole thing is just a ______ "coverup" / "hoax" / "misunderstanding"

by _____ "enemies of progress" / "the egghead climatologists" / "Al Gore"

meant to ______ "divert attention" / "scam funding" / "institute a One World government"

with _____ . "anti Exxon conspiracies" / "taxpayer money" / "the Illuminati"

Global Warming is a scam, and when the Northern Hemisphere is buried beneath snow its obvious to everyone. My local water authority does the same thing, screaming ' drought' when the streets and rivers are flooded.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Of course, 'weather' is not so much 'climate', but this is rather comical:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=35098

And given that ClimateGate 'scientists' decided to use tree rings as indicators of climate change UNTIL tree rings didn't support their global warming thesis, well, that's not science to me. (That was the 'trick' they talked about in their emails.)

In any case, the debate is not "over."

I am liberal - I am NOT stupid.

What is science to you, Lisa? I am not being snarky, but I am always curious as to what people percieve and expect.

 

[trysail]

The crux is: If climate change is happening and we do nothing to try to prevent activities that accelerate the process we are heading for disasters in our children's lifetimes, BUT if we are wrong the acts to reduce the activities will not do harm. The consequences of failing to act are immense. The consequences of acting are comparatively minimal.

Og

Og, we will have to disagree. I submit that there is no need to act precipitously. I further submit that human understanding of the climate system is, at best, primitive.

I also assert that "if we are wrong the acts to reduce the activities will not do harm" is dead wrong. In fact, there are massive consequences— some of them are apparent and some of them unknown, unimagined and unintended.

There has been enormous exaggeration of both climatology's knowledge and its ability to forecast the future. The exaggeration has been deliberate and intentional.

There is good reason to believe there have been instances of very bad behavior in certain circles of climatology.





http://bigjournalism.com/pcourrielc...g-of-a-new-science-movement-part-i/#more-2358


Peer-to-Peer Review: How ‘Climategate’ Marks the Maturing of a New Science Movement, Part I

How a tiny blog and a collective of climate enthusiasts broke the biggest story in the history of global warming science – but not without a gatekeeper of the climate establishment trying to halt its proliferation.

by Patrick Courrielche

It was triggered at the most unlikely of places. Not in the pages of a prominent science publication, or by an experienced muckraker. It was triggered at a tiny blog – a bit down the list of popular skeptic sites. With a small group of followers, a blog of this size could only start a media firestorm if seeded with just the right morsel of information, and found by just the right people. Yet it was at this location that the most lethal weapon against the global warming establishment was unleashed.

The blog was the Air Vent. The information was a link to a Russian server that contained 61 MB of files now known as Climategate. Within two weeks of the file’s introduction, the story appeared on 28,400,000 web pages.

Not entirely the “death of global warming” as many have claimed – what happened with Climategate is much more nuanced and exponentially more interesting than the headlines convey. What was triggered at this blog was the death of unconditional trust in the scientific peer review process, and the maturing of a new movement – that of peer-to-peer review.

This development may horrify the old guard, but peer-to-peer review was just what forced the release of the Climategate files – and as a consequence revealed the uncertainty of the science and the co-opting of the process that legitimizes global warming research. It was a collective of climate blogs, centered on the work of Stephen McIntyre and Ross McKitrick, which applied the pressure. With moderators and blog commenters that include engineers, PhDs, statistics whizzes, mathematic experts, software developers, and weather specialists – the label flat-earthers, as many of their opponents have attempted to brand them, seems as fitting as tagging Lady Gaga with the label demure.

This peer-to-peer review network is the group that applied the pressure and then helped authenticate and proliferate the story.

Now, as expected, the virtual organism that is the global warming establishment resisted release of the weapon. At the first appearance of the Climategate files, which contained a plethora of emails and documents from the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit, the virtual organism moved to halt their promulgation. Early on, a few of the emails were posted on Lucia Liljegren’s skeptic blog The Blackboard. Shortly after the post, Lucia, a PhD and specialist in fluid mechanics, received an email from prominent climatologist Gavin Schmidt from the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS). It said in part, “[A] word to the wise… I don’t think that bloggers are shielded under any press shield laws and so, if I were you, I would not post any content, nor allow anyone else to do so.”

In response to my inquiry about his email, Schmidt posited, “I was initially concerned that she might be in legal jeopardy in posting the stolen emails.” Gavin Schmidt was included in over 120 of the leaked correspondence.

Gavin Schmidt
When asked if she thought the Climategate documents were a big deal at first sight, Lucia responded, “Yes. In fact, I was even more sure after Gavin [Schmidt] sent me his note.”

Remember these names: Steven Mosher, Steve McIntyre, Ross McKitrick, Jeff “Id” Condon, Lucia Liljegren, and Anthony Watts. These, and their community of blog commenters, are the global warming contrarians that formed the peer-to-peer review network and helped bring chaos to Copenhagen – critically wounding the prospects of cap-and-trade legislation in the process. One may have even played the instrumental role of first placing the leaked files on the Internet...

*****​

Continued at: http://bigjournalism.com/pcourrielc...g-of-a-new-science-movement-part-i/#more-2358

 

[Stella_Omega]

Some of those unintended consequences meaning-- the some of the wealthy and powerful losing some of the wealth and power that they garnered through bad environmental practices.

lemme play 'em a violin.