Tell Me About Harvard

[LadynStFreknBed]

Today, my 16 yo daughter got a hefty envelope from Havard containing an unsolicited applicaton and a letter stating that they are waiving her application fee and encouraging us poor people to consider them. I'm not saying this is some incredible honor. I would bet that at least the other top 49,999 high school juniors got the same.

My issue is that my daughter has her heart set on going to some college in Indianapolis just because one of her friends is going there. My daughter has Asperger's disorder and is a bit apprehensive of unfamiliar people. All I'm asking is that she apply and think about it. Knowing my daughter, she would make a few, select friends no matter where she goes.

So, this is where you come in. I don't know anything about Harvard. I went to the first college that offered me a full scholarship. Yeah, I can and will read the website, but I'd also like to hear any personal experiences or first-hand knowledge. My daughter has gotten recruiting material from many of the nation's top schools (as I am sure a large percent of high school juniors do), but this is the first that promoted the affordability of actually attending.

So, what do you know about Harvard?

btw: my daughter's field of interest is medical science/ pathology/ cytolology

 

[Guest]

Harvard Med school is one of the best in the world... they work closely with John Hopkins as well

They have a close working relationship with Boston Children's hospital..... clearly one of the best of their kind

the city itself is amazing... anything from a night club to huge libraries to quaint little shops... the history is everywhere and she would meet people that could have the potential to influence the rest of her life

And I would not be so quick to chalk it all up to 'tons of other Juniors got this letter'... Harvard is not like that, they don't have to solicit anyone.... they get more applicants every year then they possibly want... them sending her this letter is putting you on notice that your daughter has something that they want there

 

[Pure]

my best friend went to harvard, and i've visited; i went to another ivy league school. what are your questions? your daughter will be with the best of the best; it is a real honor. it's her functioning in her academics that's key. but there is no reason to think the opportunities for social life are less. Cambridge is rich in that area.

also you might consider that Harvard never refuses anyone the financial means to attend; and it's almost impossible to flunk. they want to keep you, unlike many state universities and colleges.

 

[midwestyankee]

Harvard does compete for the best students, just like every other good school. That's why your daughter got the package from them. My daughter received similar correspondence from them when she was in high school. That said, it's a fine institution with top-quality faculty in every area and anyone who really invests himself or herself in being educated there will get a terrific education.

Further, and you already know this, the friendships and other connections that one makes at a really good school are extremely valuable. Opportunities become available within the alumni network that are sometimes shared first within the network and then to outsiders. Such connections can be invaluable in making a young person's life, whether in business, law, medicine, or academia.

 

[Safe_Bet]

George W. Bush got his MBA from Harvard. They obviously will take anybody!

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Today, my 16 yo daughter got a hefty envelope from Havard containing an unsolicited applicaton and a letter stating that they are waiving her application fee and encouraging us poor people to consider them. I'm not saying this is some incredible honor. I would bet that at least the other top 49,999 high school juniors got the same.

My issue is that my daughter has her heart set on going to some college in Indianapolis just because one of her friends is going there. My daughter has Asperger's disorder and is a bit apprehensive of unfamiliar people. All I'm asking is that she apply and think about it. Knowing my daughter, she would make a few, select friends no matter where she goes.

So, this is where you come in. I don't know anything about Harvard. I went to the first college that offered me a full scholarship. Yeah, I can and will read the website, but I'd also like to hear any personal experiences or first-hand knowledge. My daughter has gotten recruiting material from many of the nation's top schools (as I am sure a large percent of high school juniors do), but this is the first that promoted the affordability of actually attending.

So, what do you know about Harvard?

btw: my daughter's field of interest is medical science/ pathology/ cytolology

My daughter was accepted to Harvard, but she declined. They were willing to give her half scholarship.

She decided to go to Tufts University, across the Charles River from Harvard. Tufts gave her a full scholarship.

In 4 years we paid $1,000 the first year, $2,000 the second year, $4,000 the third year, and $8,000 the last year, after room, board, book fees, student fees, health fees, parking et al fees were taken into consideration.

Now, 6 years later after graduating magna cum laude, she still can't get a job (lol). She is very educated, though (lol). After working for CBS Nightly News as a Desk Assignment Editor, she now runs her own news service.

Have your daughter pick the best university or college that offers her the most money and the best educational experience. Tufts is a wonderful school, #25 on the list, last time I checked.

Good luck.

 

[cloudy]

The advice my father gave me when I started looking at universities went through my mind when I read this. He said, "It matters what school you graduate from - the name it has acquired."

He's right, it does. I went to a school that had a name for itself in academics (two chairs of excellence), and I didn't know a single person who didn't have a job waiting for them after graduation.

Harvard has that name.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Harvard is the best example of why name-brand is important. People go to Harvard to connect and network for the best positions after graduation. You wont meet a Kennedy at Chuckleville U. You wont meet a Bush at Asshat Teachers College. Most of the Harvard graduates then go to Washington or Wall Street where they fuck everything up. Nearly all of our problems are the work of Harvard and Yale graduates.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Thank you, guys, for your info. You make some good points. The name-recognition is a key selling point. I explained to her yesterday that all else being equal, if an employer considers 2 people to hire and one graduated from Harvard and the other graduated from a school with random initials, the one from Harvard definitely has an edge.

But, BFW, you have a point too. There are many reputable schools. Unfortunately, I can't afford for my daughter to pay many application fees. Financial aid is going to be crucial. It kinda sucks that we may not know until February if she gets either of the National Merit Scholarships that she is in the running for.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Harvard is the best example of why name-brand is important. People go to Harvard to connect and network for the best positions after graduation. You wont meet a Kennedy at Chuckleville U. You wont meet a Bush at Asshat Teachers College. Most of the Harvard graduates then go to Washington or Wall Street where they fuck everything up. Nearly all of our problems are the work of Harvard and Yale graduates.

Yeah, but...

The problem with going to Harvard for those who do not have Harvard money and Harvard connections is that you are an outcast before you even enroll.

Unless you are good looking or have a body to die for, you'll be excluded from private parties and other functions.

Sometimes, you need to think of what your daily dorm life will be like when you don't show up on campus driving a Porsche or able to hire movers to move your things to a private apartment off campus.

Then, what do you do when you are unable to afford all the side trips these students take with Daddy's credit card?

It's time that your child realizes that there are 'them', the chosen ones, and then there are the rest of us.

Yeah, she could be struck by lightning and be embraced by someone's who great grandfather was Rockefeller or Dupont, but it's doubtful when she or he is unable to reciprocate when buying drinks for the table at an off campus club on Landsdown Street.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

By the way, I must include that Boston is an exciting place for a student to go to school. It is a student's paradise. Every September the population swells by double. There are so many schools, universities, and colleges in Boston, that I couldn't recite them all without forgeting to include a dozen, at least.

Moreover, Boston is relatively safe, so long as you don't participate in the after riot of a Red Sox or Celtics game win by Fenway Park or near the Boston Garden.

There are tons of things to do and see and everything is within walking distance. For those who are too lazy to walk the subway, bus, and trolley is very convenient.

Only, unlike New York, the sidewalks promptly close at 1am.

Boston is a great place to be no matter what school your loved one decides to attend.

Be fair warned, though, everything is expensive in Boston from parking to apartment rental to buying a latte and muffin. Be prepared to give your kid a sack of gold.

Yeah, there are lots of kids who work in Boston while going to school, but if your kid must work while going to 'Harvard', he'll automatically be excluded from the inner circle.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

A Harvard pedigree can help, but you also have to consider its potential to harm.

If you dont get a job in Washington or Wall Street you then have to play in the minor leagues where a Harvard pedigree may be a threat to everyone OR your employer will think youre a temp.

If you want a shot at wealth & glory, go to Harvard.
If you wanna learn your trade, go to the school that has the best reputation for your specialty.
If you wanna be a gentleman or lady, go to college anywhere.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Thankfully, being part of the in crowd is not a remote priority for her, especially with the Asperger's. She also has a rather cynical sense of humor about people in general. If you've ever seen the show House, Dr. House is the male version of my daughter.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Thankfully, being part of the in crowd is not a remote priority for her, especially with the Asperger's. She also has a rather cynical sense of humor about people in general. If you've ever seen the show House, Dr. House is the male version of my daughter.

Seriously, then, I if she was my daughter, I'd talk her out of attending Harvard University. There are many other schools that would cater to her special needs issues.

I have identical twin girls and one is special needs. I was able find a school that welcomed my daughter and made her feel comfortable without being made to feel different or special.

Whereas her sister graduated from Tufts, she graduated from Fisher Junior College before graduating from Curry College. She also graduated Magna Cum Laude. She was a girl who was always in her sister's shadow and who didn't even want to go to college. So the thing is to find the perfect match.

Also, there are tons of scholarships on the Internet that go unclaimed. Yeah, it takes a lot of work to not only find them but to apply for them. Yet, they are well worth the effort. Many don't realize that whatever extra scholarships that the student finds, they can put in your pocket to use to buy books, computers, pay for apartment rental, even buy a car.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What ultimately matters is how competent you are.

I'm reading a book about Vietnam. Two junior officers command a small fort 100 miles from anywhere. One graduated State U, the other graduated West Point. During a prisoner interrogation the West Pointer shot a hole into a propane gas tank. The resulting fire killed 6 people (4 American soldiers and 2 prisoners), burned the fort to the ground, and destroyed a huge supply of food & ammunition.

 

[trysail]

Positives:

(1) Resources exist for any potential field of study. If you want to study West African ethology or organic chemistry or astrophysics or the violincello or electrical engineering or film, you can.

(2) Cambridge/Beantown has a broad range of cultural opportunities that can only be found in an urban environment.

(3) As much as it pisses the shit out of me, it is a fact that Haaaaavaaaad has succeeded in establishing itself as a brand name ( a la Cheerios ). The unwashed and the general public assumes that graduates are not dumb. Until proven otherwise, graduates receive the benefit of doubt in this regard. See (4) under "Negatives."

(4) Extreme diversity; the school attempts to admit one of everything— contrary to popular perception, that includes people who aren't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer. Some of the smartest folk I know have gone there but some not-real-bright people I know have also gotten into the joint. See (1) under "Neutral" and (3) under "Negatives."



Neutral:

(1) Extreme diversity; the school attempts to admit one of everything— contrary to popular perception, that includes people who aren't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer. See (4) above and (3) below.

(2) As noted elsewhere, it is nearly impossible to flunk out. If you do flunk out, the joint will almost always let you back in following a period of rustication.



Negative:

(1) It is not a small school. If individual attention is important, this is the wrong place. Introductory courses frequently have enormous class sizes and may be largely taught by graduate students rather than the featured "name" professor.

(2) Cambridge is urban. If you want an environment with trees and birds, this ain't it. It is not an inexpensive place to live ( i.e., the cost of living is high ). Also, there are bad guys around.

(3) Extreme diversity; the school attempts to admit one of everything— contrary to popular perception, that includes people who aren't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer.

(4) As much as it pisses the shit out of me, it is a fact that Haaaaavaaaad has succeeded in establishing itself as a brand name ( a la Cheerios ). The general public assumes that graduates are not dumb. However, for the rest of your life, there WILL BE people who will be intensely envious of you, hate your guts and who will avail themselves of every opportunity to stab you in the back. See (3) under "Positives."

(5) Some graduates have been known to have had difficulty adapting to life outside Haaaaaavaaaaad ( i.e., the "real world"). A few develop a sense of entitlement and become failures in their attempt to skate through life. Others have been known to develop a sense of guilt and the weight of the "privilege " of attending Haaaaavaaaad bears down on them throughout their entire life.

(6) The extreme richness of opportunities and choices can result in dysfunctional paralysis.



__________________

Because of my intense dislike of "networking" and those who engage in it, I am not categorizing this opinion:
I believe the much ballyhooed ability to make important contacts at the joint is wildly and vastly overstated. Even Haaavaaaad folk are smart enough to recognize the transparent and superficial efforts of hustlers and pimps.

 

[midwestyankee]

One thing to bear in mind is that many colleges require no application fee if one completes the application online. This enabled our son to apply to 9 schools this year for less than $100 in total application fees.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Well, even though my daughter was diagnosed with Asperger's, she is in complete denial of her condition. (The rest of the world is fucked up, not her.)

She's done very well in high school. She's earned some college credits with AP courses. However, I do have some concerns for college like is she going to eat? She's managed to make it this far through high school without setting foot in the cafeteria, because the noise and the smells bother her.

 

[Smarmy_and_Sappe]

My issue is that my daughter has her heart set on going to some college in Indianapolis just because one of her friends is going there. My daughter has Asperger's disorder and is a bit apprehensive of unfamiliar people. All I'm asking is that she apply and think about it. Knowing my daughter, she would make a few, select friends no matter where she goes.

Let your daughter go where she wants to go, and not to where you want her to go. From what I've read in this thread, I get the feeling you are concerned first and foremost about the prestige of having a child attending Harvard.

If Harvard is where she truly wants to go, then by all means mortgage the family farm and do double duty to put her through. But, if she wants to go to Indianapolis, then let her go and support her. The important thing is that she is going to college and that she is furthering her education.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Let your daughter go where she wants to go, and not to where you want her to go. From what I've read in this thread, I get the feeling you are concerned first and foremost about the prestige of having a child attending Harvard.

If Harvard is where she truly wants to go, then by all means mortgage the family farm and do double duty to put her through. But, if she wants to go to Indianapolis, then let her go and support her. The important thing is that she is going to college and that she is furthering her education.

That's my 2 cents.

LOL

Prestige is not a priority, except in any way it benefits my daughter. Anyone who knows me knows this is true, so I appreciate the feedback that I have gotten.

Who am I going to brag to? A stray dust bunny in my bedroom? LOL

Wherever my daughter decides to go, of course I will support her. My kids are my life. I just want her to keep an open mind and choose the college which will be the best for her while she is attending and provide the maximum benefit afterwards. Is that Harvard? idk. That was the point of this thread.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TRYSAIL

How many non-Ivy Leaguers do you estimate there are on Wall Street and in Washington? One percent, two?

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Positives:

(1) Resources exist for any potential field of study. If you want to study West African ethology or organic chemistry or astrophysics or the violincello or electrical engineering or film, you can.

(2) Cambridge/Beantown has a broad range of cultural opportunities that can only be found in an urban environment.

(3) As much as it pisses the shit out of me, it is a fact that Haaaaavaaaad has succeeded in establishing itself as a brand name ( a la Cheerios ). The unwashed and the general public assumes that graduates are not dumb. Until proven otherwise, graduates receive the benefit of doubt in this regard. See (4) under "Negatives."

(4) Extreme diversity; the school attempts to admit one of everything— contrary to popular perception, that includes people who aren't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer. Some of the smartest folk I know have gone there but some not-real-bright people I know have also gotten into the joint. See (1) under "Neutral" and (3) under "Negatives."



Neutral:

(1) Extreme diversity; the school attempts to admit one of everything— contrary to popular perception, that includes people who aren't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer. See (4) above and (3) below.

(2) As noted elsewhere, it is nearly impossible to flunk out. If you do flunk out, the joint will almost always let you back in following a period of rustication.



Negative:

(1) It is not a small school. If individual attention is important, this is the wrong place. Introductory courses frequently have enormous class sizes and may be largely taught by graduate students rather than the featured "name" professor.

(2) Cambridge is urban. If you want an environment with trees and birds, this ain't it. It is not an inexpensive place to live ( i.e., the cost of living is high ). Also, there are bad guys around.

(3) Extreme diversity; the school attempts to admit one of everything— contrary to popular perception, that includes people who aren't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer.

(4) As much as it pisses the shit out of me, it is a fact that Haaaaavaaaad has succeeded in establishing itself as a brand name ( a la Cheerios ). The general public assumes that graduates are not dumb. However, for the rest of your life, there WILL BE people who will be intensely envious of you, hate your guts and who will avail themselves of every opportunity to stab you in the back. See (3) under "Positives."

(5) Some graduates have been known to have had difficulty adapting to life outside Haaaaaavaaaaad ( i.e., the "real world"). A few develop a sense of entitlement and become failures in their attempt to skate through life. Others have been known to develop a sense of guilt and the weight of the "privilege " of attending Haaaaavaaaad bears down on them throughout their entire life.

(6) The extreme richness of opportunities and choices can result in dysfunctional paralysis.



__________________

Because of my intense dislike of "networking" and those who engage in it, I am not categorizing this opinion:
I believe the much ballyhooed ability to make important contacts at the joint is wildly and vastly overstated. Even Haaavaaaad folk are smart enough to recognize the transparent and superficial efforts of hustlers and pimps.

Are you from Boston?

You talk like me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I love it when you guys wander down South and wanna know where the BUBBLUH is or the TONIC machine.

 

[freshface]

Well, even though my daughter was diagnosed with Asperger's, she is in complete denial of her condition. (The rest of the world is fucked up, not her.)

She's done very well in high school. She's earned some college credits with AP courses. However, I do have some concerns for college like is she going to eat? She's managed to make it this far through high school without setting foot in the cafeteria, because the noise and the smells bother her.

You could always split the difference. As has already been pointed out in this thread, the first few years at many large universities, including Harvard, will be spent in very large introductory classes mostly taught by teaching assistants. She could go to the university in Indianapolis for her first few years and move on if someplace else suites her better. The degree will still say Harvard if she transfers in as a Junior.

 

[Firebrain]

I don't know much about Harvard, but I do have a lot of experience with the British equivilent. I've also worked with Aspergers kids.

One thing that strikes me about going to a school which would normally be out of your income bracket, so to speak, is that it can make things quite difficult socially. Your daughter is going to need to build up a support network of her own at school and that will be hard if she can't afford to go out with her friends. The bar is really raised at these places - there are expensive balls, a night or meal out tends to cost a lot, the standard of living is generally much higher (there will be people who are on lower incomes there, of course, but they are often too busy working other jobs to be around and the proportion of them is smaller). Your daughter may not be concerned with fitting in but she hasn't been totally out of her comfort zone just yet; if you aware she is going to struggle socially then it may not be the best idea to put her in a place where is at an obvious disadvantage.

Additionally, given your daughter's fields of interest, it's likely she will want to pursue a graduate degree and you may want to keep some of your pennies for then.

All that said, if these things can be overcome, Harvard may well be the best place to make the most of her intelligence. The best way for her to decide is to visit and get a feel for the place - see where she will be living, think through the practicalities (such as the food issue you mentioned. Although to be fair, I've known plenty of students living on instant noodles for three years!).

Do let us know how you get on and congrats to her for getting the application gear in the first place!