Tear it up

[Syndra Lynn]

I wanted to post this in the "Not for the thin skinned" thread, but found myself dizzy when I tried to read it. Wow! That's a busy thread. Maybe it's cause I am tired beyond belief and hungry to boot. Anyway. I want this poem torn to bits. I want it right, becaus the experience was so powerful. Ange, Boo, Tath and Jim have already improved the original version and I humbly thank them.

I hate the title.
I am not sure if it's clear why the sun is invisible.
I feel too wordy in places and too sparce in others.
I have serious issues with line breaks and punctuation.
I know I need to take a break from it, but I can't seem to let it go.

Tear it up, my friends and don't spare the rod. I'll come back tomorrow and see if there's anything left.

Bleary eyed. Too weak to press...mouse button... must paste poem..

Communion at Goat Rock Beach

I stood
at the water’s edge, arms lifted
in invocation.
Waves rocked the shoreline, echoed
echoed from my soul,
jolted archaic traces
of esoteric thoughts, spinning
in nucleotides
mine, yours, the ocean’s.

I began
to dance my offering.
No sound,
but percussion
of the shore
and the music in my heart.

I danced
as a sea lion, just off shore
looked on, amazed.
Primitive king,
honored by my flowing oblation.

I danced
pouring across shores
of ancient times, when we were one,
while the universe was young,
lost in memories not my own,
traversing cosmos, time,
ancestral blood.

I danced,
spinning dunes in and out
of spirals, crossing shifting lines
of foam and brine,
impressions in the sand,
pulsing rhythm,
heartbeat surf

I danced
to breathlessness.
legs heavy, pulse racing,
thoughts retracing,
breath catching
in ebbing waves
The shining lion slipped
beneath the sea,
as an ancient cosmic thread
unwound.

I stood
soul’s prayer
spent,
grateful to Gods,
to wind and waves,
fog and sand,
to the omnipotent
power of an invisible Sun.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

looks like zen master poetry to me
how can you make a beautiful flower better?
Excellent in its own

 

[PatCarrington]

Syndra -

you could indeed have put this on the thin-skinned thread. this is exactly what that thread is for.

and, i give you my opinions in the spirit of that thread and of your request.

i pretended this poem was mine, and rewrote as i would do if it were. that felt like the best way to clean up some of the problems i felt were present. it also makes this post shorter than long-winding explanation after explanation, and easier to understand, as well as presenting my meanings in a clearer way.


first off, i love the title!!

i think the first stanza is the weakest one in the poem, and not a good place for it.

i do not think the 2-word first line is very effective, not like all the “i danced” stanza beginnings. nor do I think the repeat of “echoes” is useful. it feels contrived to me.

the phrase “echoed from my soul” is cliché, i believe. and the string of higher level vocabulary….archaic, esoteric, nucleotides,…..don’t seem to bounce off each other in any effective way. if this were mine, my first rewrite would be something like:

I stood at the water’s edge,
arms lifted in invocation.
Waves rocked the shoreline
and the past, brought you
back to the sea. And me.


nor would i begin the second stanza with a 2-word first line. i think this stanza is much better than the first. though “music in my heart” is very ordinary.


I began to dance my offering.
No sound but the percussion
of shore and heart,
our music.


in the third stanza, i think you can improve on the word “amazed”, and on the flow in general.


I danced
and a sea lion off shore
accepted my gift.
A primitive king, honored
by my flowing oblation.


the next stanza, in my opinion, is strong and needs only minor cleaning.



I danced,
pouring across ancient shores
where we were one
and the universe was young,
lost in memories not my own,
traversing cosmos, time,
ancestral blood.


i find this stanza nice also. i think “spirals” is redundant, though you may want to replace ‘spinning’ with it. I don’t think you need both.


I danced,
spinning dunes in and out,
crossing shifting lines
of foam and brine,
impressions in the sand,
pulsing rhythm,
heartbeat surf.



i think “breathless” is an improvement on “to breathlessness.” i also do not like the phrasing in stanza middle. i think you might want to make all but the end of this stanza shorter-lined, to reflect the pace of the words, also.


I danced
breathless,
heavy-legged.
Pulse racing,
thoughts retracing,
my wind catching
in ebbing waves.
The shining lion slipped
beneath the sea,
as an ancient cosmic thread
unwound.


i love the last stanza, though i think the last image could be greatly improved. unless the “YOU” you referred to earlier in the poem is the Sun. that is not clear to me, and i feel the disapperance of that “You”, or the lack of clarity as to who it is, is a weakness in the poem that must be repaired in the succeeding rewrites.

I stood,
soul’s prayer spent,
grateful to Gods,
to wind and waves,
fog and sand,
to the omnipotent
power of an invisible Sun.


i hope some of these ideas are helpful. it is your poem, of course, so please take these suggestions in the spirit they were given, and burn the ones you find faulty.

 

[jthserra]

You're in for it now...

Tear it up, my friends and don't spare the rod. I'll come back tomorrow and see if there's anything left.

You're in for it now... I've printed this out and will take notebook and ink to it... After a bit of spilled ink, blood and snot (yeah, still my cold)... I'll see what happens.


jim : )

 

[foehn]

I wanted to post this in the "Not for the thin skinned" thread, but found myself dizzy when I tried to read it. Wow! That's a busy thread. Maybe it's cause I am tired beyond belief and hungry to boot. Anyway. I want this poem torn to bits. I want it right, becaus the experience was so powerful. Ange, Boo, Tath and Jim have already improved the original version and I humbly thank them.

I hate the title.
I am not sure if it's clear why the sun is invisible.
I feel too wordy in places and too sparce in others.
I have serious issues with line breaks and punctuation.
I know I need to take a break from it, but I can't seem to let it go.

Tear it up, my friends and don't spare the rod. I'll come back tomorrow and see if there's anything left.

Bleary eyed. Too weak to press...mouse button... must paste poem..

Communion at Goat Rock Beach

I stood
at the water’s edge, arms lifted
in invocation.
Waves rocked the shoreline, echoed
echoed from my soul,
jolted archaic traces
of esoteric thoughts, spinning
in nucleotides
mine, yours, the ocean’s.

I began
to dance my offering.
No sound,
but percussion
of the shore
and the music in my heart.

I danced
as a sea lion, just off shore
looked on, amazed.
Primitive king,
honored by my flowing oblation.

I danced
pouring across shores
of ancient times, when we were one,
while the universe was young,
lost in memories not my own,
traversing cosmos, time,
ancestral blood.

I danced,
spinning dunes in and out
of spirals, crossing shifting lines
of foam and brine,
impressions in the sand,
pulsing rhythm,
heartbeat surf

I danced
to breathlessness.
legs heavy, pulse racing,
thoughts retracing,
breath catching
in ebbing waves
The shining lion slipped
beneath the sea,
as an ancient cosmic thread
unwound.

I stood
soul’s prayer
spent,
grateful to Gods,
to wind and waves,
fog and sand,
to the omnipotent
power of an invisible Sun.

Oh, there should be a great deal left indeed. Pat has a "feel" for things and a penetrating view of the poetic arts that I can't match, no matter how much I'd like to. I admire his critiques, and at the same time I'm not in agreement with some of his views about this poem.

You've heard of the Cookie Monster? Well, some here know me as the Meter Monger, so bear that in mind.

Free verse is "free," of course, but one of the things that stood out for me here, even on a first reading, is that the first lines of the stanzas, all except for one, consist of one metric foot. Now, I think that probably what bothered Pat about that is that it seems, possibly, a bit "artificial" -- an artsyjj-craftsy way of adding emphasis without doing the work of making the substance say it, rather than the form. However, for me, it works. Furthermore, for me, it works better than the alternatives presented. In this regard, though, everyone has different tastes, and it is obviously up to you to decide what sort of effect you want, and if you are getting it. I just say here that for some reason, the extremely short first lines of each stanza were not a hindrance to me.

I also love the title, except for one thing: there's not more information in the body of the poem (again, for me...) tying it in. The title brings wonderful sounds and imagery even before the presentation begins, but there's not much of anything backing it up in the body of the poem, which would have been nice. The name of the place is so specific ... so I wonder why other specific details could not have given the rest of the poem a more contiguous feel.

I object, vaguely, to "Gods" and "Sun" being capitalized.

Capitalization is an issue in the next-to-last stanza with "legs" beginning a sentence and "The" in the middle of one, unless the punctuation is wrong. The reason I mention this is because anyone with such mastery of language, in my opinion, is obligated to the admiring reader to not shoot themselves in the foot with such errors.

"Oblation" is a nice, colorful word, but does not seem quite right in the context. It would require more information for me to believe in it. The sea lion I can see. What I can't see is a spiritual context with a "primitive king."

"Soul's prayer spent" seems extremely weak to me. This is the sort of thing that makes me want to twiddle my thumbs until the next striking phrase comes along. The main problem, sadly, is that so many of the other phrases have been so much more original and striking. What this "feels" like, to me, is the artificial injection of an all-encompassing (and therefore too-easy) "soul" -- and "prayer" and "spent" similarly avoid the pain of saying exactly what was in the poet's mind. Believe me, I would lambast those three words in even a poem that Robert Frost or William Yeats had written. Hmmm.... did they ever use that particular phrase? I'll have to research that...

I have a final bit of praise, and a final complaint. Which do you want first? The complaint? Okay. My complaint is that I can't quite get a handle on what the poem is about. It could be about a sexual experience, or personal growth, or an outing at the beach. It bothers me that I can't get it.

The praise is this: the sounds and rhythms of this poem are so flowing, so perfect, that I don't care whether I get it or not.

I will end my scissoring with one additional comment: beware of editing a fine poem out of existence. Sometimes, the reasons we love things is because of their imperfections. Take me, for example...

*laugh*

/f

 

[SeattleRain]

Bleary eyed. Too weak to press...mouse button... must critique poem..




I hate the title. I like the title

I am not sure if it's clear why the sun is invisible. me either

I feel too wordy in places and too sparce in others. you are right, mostly on the too wordyI have serious issues with line breaks and punctuation.

they are easily fixed, I am confident in you

I know I need to take a break from it, but I can't seem to let it go.

if you know you need a break from it, take one It is hard to keep things straight when it is all so close. I sometimes wind up editing the edits so much I forget where I am by the bottom of the poem I do not recognize the top anymore. Be careful.

I would suggest summarizing what you are trying to say in 10-20 words. Then make sure your poem is woven around those main ideas/images, and that the poem supports what you are going for. Sometimes too much of a good thing drowns out the main thing. Like too much syrup on top of delicious pancakes. Have you picked up a warm pancake and eaten it just for itself? Abso-fucking-lutely delicious. It might be fun for you to do that with this poem not as an end product, just so you remember where you started, and where you are trying to go.

Where is the original?



Communion at Goat Rock Beach

I stood
at the water’s edge, arms lifted
in invocation.

<-- change line breaks. reads choppy, takes the place where you stand too far away from the standing.

I stood at the water’s edge,
arms lifted in invocation.

Waves rocked the shoreline, echoed
echoed from my soul

,<-- the word soul is on my top ten ick sappy ick list. And if you gotta keep it, did they really echo from your soul or off your soul? Or did they reverberate inside your soul or maybe harmonize with it?

jolted archaic traces
of esoteric thoughts, spinning
in nucleotides
mine, yours, the ocean’s.

<-- hate to be a science prick here, but I am not sure what you are getting at with nucleotides--you mean like adenine and guanine? Hmm or are they nucleic acids.... at any rate, especially the ocean's-- I do not associate nucleotides with spinning thoughts. Help me out. Maybe something with the saline-- that ties us with the ocean?

I began
to dance my offering.
No sound,
but percussion
of the shore

<-- I read this as no sound, but percussion. Like no cats, just dogs-- but I think you mean--

no tones/notes?, just the beat, I thought that was what you intended, or did you mean the only sound was the percussion of the shore (keep in mind I am ill and this might be clear)

and the music in my heart.<--- again, this line is like the soul one. It is not easy to put anything in your heart without sounding kind of corny. I am jilted I know Again, this is beautiful, but I think you can do more with it.

I danced
as a sea lion, just off shore<--- I think that you could make this interpretive dance apparent without repeating that you are dancing

How does a sea lion dance? Can you describe it in one or two lines? That would be effective, I think. I was not sure-- is the sea lion being watched?


looked on, amazed.
Primitive king,
honored by my flowing oblation.

I danced
pouring across shores
of ancient times, when we were one,
while the universe was young,
lost in memories not my own,
traversing cosmos, time,
ancestral blood.

<---okay the nucleotides make more sense now. you are talking the primordial sea? Are you doing a creation dance?

I danced,
spinning dunes in and out
of spirals, crossing shifting lines
of foam and brine,
impressions in the sand,
pulsing rhythm,
heartbeat surf

I danced
to breathlessness.
legs heavy, pulse racing,
thoughts retracing,
breath catching
in ebbing waves

while these images are beautiful, I think they may be overdone, too much description, gets kind of overkill for me, as I already have the image of the dancing

The shining lion slipped
beneath the sea,<---ooh I love that
as an ancient cosmic thread
unwound.

I stood
soul’s prayer
spent,

I stood,
soul's prayer spent,

grateful to Gods,
to wind and waves,
fog and sand,
to the omnipotent
power of an invisible Sun.


enjoyed this. I am unclear of your interpretation of this experience, ther eis so much going on, communal feelings with the sea, creatures, God... then there is creation, perhaps some sort of conception

I would love to hear what you were going for, just to see if I was anywhere close, and if not, to give maybe a few pointers, for what they are worth.




SR

 

[Syndra Lynn]

This is exactly what I needed!

Pat, foehn, Seattle,

Thank you. Many of these suggestions will be worked into the rewrite and many others help me see where my problems lie, especially the problems of clarity. Like the sea lion~he wasn't dancing, he was watching me dance. I can see now how it reads the other way.

Seattle, great suggestions! Luckily, I have the original notes in my journal and the first draft is somewhere in the construction thread. I will dig them up and have a look.

foehn, more specifics is exactly what I need to make me like the title more. I capitalized Gods and Sun for Pagan reasons, but will consider revising for broader audience apeal.

Pat~your line by line critique is a wonderful tool that I am gathering into my basket to bring back to the drawing board. Thank you for the gift.

Jim, I await your ink-stained, snotty offering. Have a tissue? waits quietly for Jim to finish

Many thanks to those who have taken the time to help, and all those who still want to dive in for the kill. I await your blades.

Syn

 

[Syndra Lynn]

looks like zen master poetry to me
how can you make a beautiful flower better?
Excellent in its own

Art, I appreciate your confidence in me. Thanks.

 

[jthserra]

A beautiful poem

Communion at Goat Rock Beach I like the title too, but if you don't like it you could shorten it to just Communion

I stood
at the water’s edge, arms lifted
in invocation.
Waves rocked the shoreline, echoed
echoed from my soul, the echoes are coming from the waves, not from within you so I think you might want to say "echoed in my soul,"
jolted archaic traces archaic sounds so... well archaic, I wonder if the two syllable ancient would flow better here. I also wonder if you said "jolting" instead of jolted it might soften the jolt just a tad.
of esoteric thoughts, spinning
in nucleotides
mine, yours, the ocean’s.

I began
to dance my offering. what about modifying this line to: "the dance: my offering."
No sound,
but percussion perhaps add "the" between but and percussion
of the shore
and the music in my heart. what about replacing and with "joined"... the percussion of the waves join the music in your heart.

I dancedthe repetition of dance can work, but I think perhaps if you back off a bit it will enhance the times you use it. What about for this stanza saying "I rolled / as a sea lion,"
as a sea lion, just off shore
looked on, amazed."looked on" felt a bit awkward... what about "watching in amazement"
Primitive king,
honored by my flowing oblation.The last two lines of this stanza work, but I wonder if you made it a bit more active would it strenghten the stanza...: "Honoring the Prmnitive King / with my flowing oblation."

I danced
pouring across shores shores is used a lot... what about using beaches here instead.
of ancient times, when we were one,
while the universe was young, cliche police here... I think this line could easily be dropped
lost in memories not my own,
traversing cosmos, time,
ancestral blood. <---- yes... "ancestral blood" powerful useage here...

I danced, perhaps "swirled" here
spinning dunes in and out
of spirals, crossing shifting lines
of foam and brine,
impressions in the sand,
pulsing rhythm,
heartbeat surf

I danced
to breathlessness. what about replace "to breathlessness" with "breathlessly my"
legs heavy, pulse racing,
thoughts retracing, this seemed out of place, perhaps drop it?
breath catching what about replacing this with "gasping"
in ebbing waves
The shining lion slipped what about "A shining lion slipped / into the sea"
beneath the sea,
as an ancient cosmic thread
unwound.

I stoodYou went from dance and movement to "I stood" I wonder if perhaps you said, "I stopped / my soul's prayer / spent" it would give you the progression from movement to standing still, your prayer "spent"
soul’s prayer
spent,
grateful to Gods,
to wind and waves,
fog and sand,
to the omnipotent
power of an invisible Sun.

I wonder if a rearrangement of lines might would work better here...

I stopped
my soul's prayer
spent
in the wind and waves
fog and sand
grateful to the Gods,
to the omnipotent
power of an invisible Sun.


Just a few things you might consider. You paint the scene beautifully in the words, I felt like I was witnessing an incredible ceremony on the beach. A beautiful poem.


jim : )

 

[Syndra Lynn]

Communion at Goat Rock Beach I like the title too, but if you don't like it you could shorten it to just Communion

Just a few things you might consider. You paint the scene beautifully in the words, I felt like I was witnessing an incredible ceremony on the beach. A beautiful poem.

jim : )

Your observations are succinct and detailed. Many made me smile because they captured exactly what I was trying to say. Some will end up in snipits on the floor with bits of the original. This is wonderfully helpful.

I bow humbly. You honor me by taking so much time with my poem.

Syn

 

[sandspike]

quick thoughts

1. I'm not that crazy about the title.
2. I took it that the son was Christ. This brings me to a point we talked of in
passing last year. Ain't but one God. (last verse)
3. Your wording is like the tides - in and out. That is no deal breaker.
4. I know nothing about line breaks and puncts. Sorry, can't help you.
5. You go to sleep and return to the poem in the morning. Having everyone
rewrite it is BS. I like what Jim said about you being in for it now. You have
people rewritting poem that they say they liked. You are good, just sleep on it
and dress it up yourself.

 

[Syndra Lynn]

1. I'm not that crazy about the title.
2. I took it that the son was Christ. This brings me to a point we talked of in
passing last year. Ain't but one God. (last verse)
3. Your wording is like the tides - in and out. That is no deal breaker.
4. I know nothing about line breaks and puncts. Sorry, can't help you.
5. You go to sleep and return to the poem in the morning. Having everyone
rewrite it is BS. I like what Jim said about you being in for it now. You have
people rewritting poem that they say they liked. You are good, just sleep on it
and dress it up yourself.

Thanks Spike. You are sweet. I appreciate your support.

 

[Syndra Lynn]

It's getting there!

Still not happy with the title, but I have made headway! Wanted to thank you all again for your kind suggestions and for taking the time to help.

Thanks

Communion at Goat Rock Beach

I stood
at the verge, arms lifted
in invocation.
Waves rocked the beach, jolting
esoteric memories,
spun deep
inside my nucleotides

I danced
a benediction,
shrouded
in late winter fog.
The only sound
was percussion
of shoreline and heart.

Out beyond the breakers,
a sea lion keenly watched.
He marveled at my movement,
remembered my archaic thoughts.
I honored his majesty
with flowing oblation.

I danced
pouring over shores
of primordial seas,
where we were one,
and life was young
lost in memories not my own,
traversing cosmos, time,
ancestral blood.

Spinning dunes in and out
of spirals, crossing shifting lines
of foam and brine,
impressions in the sand
and mind
pulsing rhythm,
heartbeat surf

I danced
into ebbing waves
of breathlessness,
pulse racing,
thoughts retracing
ancient paths.
The shining lion slipped
beneath the sea,
as an ancient cosmic thread
unwound.

I spun
down
reconciled,
the universe having danced
its prayer through me.

I remain
grateful to God
and chemistry,
to wind and waves,
fog and sand,
to the omnipotent
power of an invisible Sun.

 

[Du Lac]

sorry it too so long...

Syndra
I like the change.. sorry it too so long for me to reply I was so slammed with work and a life situation that had to be handled...

Okay..
the first thing I was going to mention was the over use of the "I danced" so the changes are just right.. I was going to say start with a movement... Piourette, spun, arched etc...

Now.. the name.. which I like but you may be right Communion is kinda common... and holds a different aura ... christian although I feel the "communion" truth is way beyond christian thinking...

so lets think of some rhetoric to replace that...
Ritual?

Goat Head Beach Conversion??

Sacremental Rites of Passage?

Creed???? I love this word...

okay...
I would change this ...

The only sound
was percussion
of shoreline and heart.

to:
The only sound
percussions
of shoreline and heart.

this stanza seems awkward:

Out beyond the breakers,
a sea lion keenly watched.
He marveled at my movement,
remembered my archaic thoughts.
I honored his majesty
with flowing oblation.

Now I don't like rewriting someone elses work.. usually I just give small changes like the was removal...

here I don't like watched... remembered and marveled...to common...

so here is a jab.. and this is just my style so please just look at it and it may not be yours...

Silent voyeur beyond the breakers,
majestic Sea lion entranced,
lost in my waltz,
one in my archaic thoughts.
Ritual in his honor,
a flowing oblation.

So... there are just a few thoughts of mine ... I will continue if you so wish.. I but I really see this work changing and growing... much spirit here and I have a common bond with you on this subject. Having been a dancer and I use dance still as a healing union with Spirit.. I see the power of what you are writing about... I have a short story about such an event ... a ritual...

Thank you for asking for my thoughts I am honored... and I hope I helped in any way that could be done..
blessings
Du~

Still not happy with the title, but I have made headway! Wanted to thank you all again for your kind suggestions and for taking the time to help.

Thanks

Communion at Goat Rock Beach

I stood
at the verge, arms lifted
in invocation.
Waves rocked the beach, jolting
esoteric memories,
spun deep
inside my nucleotides

I danced
a benediction,
shrouded
in late winter fog.
The only sound
was percussion
of shoreline and heart.

Out beyond the breakers,
a sea lion keenly watched.
He marveled at my movement,
remembered my archaic thoughts.
I honored his majesty
with flowing oblation.

I danced
pouring over shores
of primordial seas,
where we were one,
and life was young
lost in memories not my own,
traversing cosmos, time,
ancestral blood.

Spinning dunes in and out
of spirals, crossing shifting lines
of foam and brine,
impressions in the sand
and mind
pulsing rhythm,
heartbeat surf

I danced
into ebbing waves
of breathlessness,
pulse racing,
thoughts retracing
ancient paths.
The shining lion slipped
beneath the sea,
as an ancient cosmic thread
unwound.

I spun
down
reconciled,
the universe having danced
its prayer through me.

I remain
grateful to God
and chemistry,
to wind and waves,
fog and sand,
to the omnipotent
power of an invisible Sun.