Talk about the Second amendment!

[The_Fool]

Actually the M16, M16A1, CAR-15 were safe, semi and auto. It was the A2 where they came out with the burst.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I'm not saying snipers arent good at what they do, i'm saying Zeb doesnt have a damn clue about what he is talking about.

Being a sniper isnt some golden ticket to greatness and being deadly, the terrain and the situation matters as well.

A lot of people just know what they see on TV. They dont have any idea of what happens in the field.

And you don't know me, so how can you say I don't know what I'm talking about. For all you know I'm Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, because you don't know who I am. I could be your pastor from church for all you know. Or I could be his wife. Or I could be your next door neighbor.

 

[stephen55]

What money can buy....sigh...

I must be the only shooter in America that has never owned an ought-six. Why, I cannot say. I admire the cartridge greatly but seem to own either smaller or larger--sometimes much larger. Perhaps I can blame my profession. I never got to go hunting like normal persons because when y'all are out pounding the autumn back country, I'm at work. So I have had to do all my hunting close by or either in Africa or the Arctic. Close to SoCal the game isn't large enough to justify a Springfield and "when in elephant country, carry an elephant rifle". Same thing applies to the uncivilized cousins up North. Great rifle. Maybe someday I'll get one just because . . .

vm practices cousinicide!!!! I'm shocked!!!....no...make that shocked and appalled!!!

I don't own an ought-six either. Most likely because my first rifle was a .270 and the next was a .300 Win. Mag. I'm also an admirer of the .30-06, despite Charles Cheerless Charlie Askins' frequent rewrite of an article he usually titled Let's bury the .30-06 or some variation thereof. My guess is that he was getting paid by Roy Weatherby.

I do own a .375 H+H Browning Safari Grade BDL. I got it specifically to go after your uncivilized cousins. It's the meanest fire stick I have. If I win the lottery and can finally go to Africa to take a Cape Buffalo, I'll take it along but just for show. Or maybe to pot something for the pot. Before I go stand up in front of one of those really big buff's, the kind that stare at you like you owe him money, I think I'll stop in at Wholesale Sports and pick up a Ruger M77RSM MARK II in .458 Lott.

As much as I'd like to take along a Holland and Holland double in, say, .470 Nitro, I understand that even a lottery win couldn't pay the freight.

 

[stephen55]

And you don't know me, so how can you say I don't know what I'm talking about. For all you know I'm Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, because you don't know who I am. I could be your pastor from church for all you know. Or I could be his wife. Or I could be your next door neighbor.

All I know for sure is that you aren't Carlos Hathcock. He passed away in 1999.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

All I know for sure is that you aren't Carlos Hathcock. He passed away in 1999.

Yes I know, just wanted to see if bobby boy was as knowledgeable and now you spoiled it. I still could be his preacher though.

 

[Bobby_3111]

Oh do get over yourself will you bobby.

I've probably shot more of these than you could list. I was quoting from memory and you call me a liar. Go blow your nose in mommies hanky and get over yourself. Nobody but you cares...I mis-remembered, except you...boohoo aren't you the the smart one. Give me a break.

Oh with your intimate knowledge of the weapons systems no doubt /sarcasm.

 

[Bobby_3111]

I have probably fired the M16 and it's variants more times than you pick your nose.



I'll tell you what you go to one end of the football field I'll go to the other, you can use any weapon you want except a sniper weapon. On the count of three we both started firing. I bet you head is bleeding before you get two rounds off.

Are you an idiot by choice or is it a natural characteristic of yours?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Oh with your intimate knowledge of the weapons systems no doubt /sarcasm.

Are you an idiot by choice or is it a natural characteristic of yours?

You know for someone who professes to be so smart you sure do have a propensity for calling people you don't know names. Or are you just chicken. If you want we can make it two football fields. Will that make you feel safer?

 

[Bobby_3111]

And you don't know me, so how can you say I don't know what I'm talking about. For all you know I'm Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, because you don't know who I am. I could be your pastor from church for all you know. Or I could be his wife. Or I could be your next door neighbor.

I know you talk a lot of shit but you know exactly jack shit about the weapons you keep bringing up.

If you knew anything about the modern weapons of the us army you would have shut up about 10 posts ago.

Guys like you that watch movies and documentaries of what the troops on the ground do think all of it is easy and in your little fantasies you actually think you can be as good with fighting as they are. You Zeb and the rest of the dreamers that never do it, don't even try to talk like you have, you're as transparent as saran-wrap and a peice of shit to boot for posing.

As far as i'm concerned your just as bad as that dumbass that wants people to believe he was an airforce pilot. Both of ya are so damn immature you wouldnt be trusted to drive a fucking bus for the military, much less given a gun and told to shoot someone or fly an aircraft.

 

[Bobby_3111]

You know for someone who professes to be so smart you sure do have a propensity for calling people you don't know names. Or are you just chicken. If you want we can make it two football fields. Will that make you feel safer?

Well if you could actually shoot that might make a difference, but since you didnt bother to read what i wrote I wont go into further detail here, your just a fool with no common sense.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I know you talk a lot of shit but you know exactly jack shit about the weapons you keep bringing up.

If you knew anything about the modern weapons of the us army you would have shut up about 10 posts ago.

Guys like you that watch movies and documentaries of what the troops on the ground do think all of it is easy and in your little fantasies you actually think you can be as good with fighting as they are. You Zeb and the rest of the dreamers that never do it, don't even try to talk like you have, you're as transparent as saran-wrap and a peice of shit to boot for posing.

As far as i'm concerned your just as bad as that dumbass that wants people to believe he was an airforce pilot. Both of ya are so damn immature you wouldnt be trusted to drive a fucking bus for the military, much less given a gun and told to shoot someone or fly an aircraft.

How old are you bobby, 12? 15? You sure haven't been here long enough to know anything about me. It's unfortunate that you haven't grown up yet. Does mommy know your still up and on the computer?

You act like a child. You post like a mad little child who hasn't been allowed out of his room for awhile.

 

[Bobby_3111]

How old are you bobby, 12? 15? You sure haven't been here long enough to know anything about me. It's unfortunate that you haven't grown up yet. Does mommy know your still up and on the computer?

You act like a child. You post like a mad little child who hasn't been allowed out of his room for awhile.

Your words right there tell me your posing, I dont need to prove anything else, you do it for me everytime you type.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well if you could actually shoot that might make a difference, but since you didnt bother to read what i wrote I wont go into further detail here, your just a fool with no common sense.

Expert in all my weapons quals.

And you have yet to make sense with any post you have made here. Tell you what, go write a story about it.

Well I'm tired of playing with you bobby boy, so I'm off to bed, my wife is waiting...

 

[Bobby_3111]

Expert in all my weapons quals.

Any you have yet to make sense with any post you have made here. Tell you what, go write a story about it.

I seriously doubt that, but oh well, i'll never get the truth from you.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I seriously doubt that, but oh well, i'll never get the truth from you.

You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and tapped you on the shoulder. You just don't like me because I don't like Obama.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

4/13/2010 11:01:00 AM
Late bill would ban most private gun sales in Wisconsin

Certain misdemeanor convictions could bar gun ownership
Richard Moore
Investigative Reporter

A fast-tracked bill introduced in the state Legislature at the end of March would ban the private sale of most firearms in Wisconsin and would for the first time extend a prohibition on the possession of firearms to those convicted of certain misdemeanors.

 

[Loring2]

Skoal !

Don't think you have to re-write it. With the original punctuation, it's actually a list, isn't it?

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State,

(as well as)

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms

(are two things that)

shall not be infringed.

Meaning they are just two stuffs that shall not, for one reason or the other, or for separate reasons, be infringed. The correlation of the two does not mean there's nessecarily a connection. Maintining that having a well regulated militia may not be the reason why people have the right to bear arms.



Why yes, I'm a syntax geek.

Well spoken and precisely correct. Thanks Liar.

 

[DeeZire]

4/13/2010 11:01:00 AM
Late bill would ban most private gun sales in Wisconsin

Certain misdemeanor convictions could bar gun ownership
Richard Moore
Investigative Reporter

A fast-tracked bill introduced in the state Legislature at the end of March would ban the private sale of most firearms in Wisconsin and would for the first time extend a prohibition on the possession of firearms to those convicted of certain misdemeanors.

You mean they're going to try to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked! What a travesty of justice and the American Way!

In case you missed it Zeb, (since it was at the bottom of the article) here is the POV from the people who would like to see the bill pass.

Closing the loophole

The bill's authors and its supporters say criminal background checks are needed for all sales or transfers of firearms; the bill would accomplish that by outlawing most private sales, and extending the current required background check for handgun purchases to all firearms.

Under current law, a criminal background check must be conducted on the prospective purchaser when a handgun is purchased from a federally licensed gun dealer, says Jeri Bonavia, the executive director of Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort (WAVE), while no such background check is performed when guns are sold by unlicensed gun sellers or private individuals.

"It's as though we are saying to the bad guys, 'Do you want to go through security screening or not? It's your choice,'" Bonavia said. "What if we used this kind of optional system at an airport and let passengers decide whether or not they wanted to go through security? I don't think anyone would believe for a second that it could work. Not surprisingly, optional security doesn't work for gun purchasing either."

Bonavia said approximately, 30,000 U.S. citizens, including 450 Wisconsin residents, are killed by gunfire every year.

The bill's authors say the legislation has broad public support, even among members of the NRA, and would put a stop to the private "straw" sale of guns at guns shows and garage sales.

"Gun violence is arguably the most significant threat to the safety of urban residents in the United States of America," Coggs and Staskunas wrote in a March 15 memo to fellow lawmakers. "According to a nationwide poll conducted by conservative political consultant and Fox News commentator Frank Luntz, 69 percent of National Rifle Association members and 85 percent of non-NRA gun-owners support 'requiring all gun sellers at gun shows to conduct criminal background checks of the people buying guns.'"

 

[SeaCat]

4/13/2010 11:01:00 AM
Late bill would ban most private gun sales in Wisconsin

Certain misdemeanor convictions could bar gun ownership
Richard Moore
Investigative Reporter

A fast-tracked bill introduced in the state Legislature at the end of March would ban the private sale of most firearms in Wisconsin and would for the first time extend a prohibition on the possession of firearms to those convicted of certain misdemeanors.

Hmmmm,

I would like to see the actual wording of the bill.

I would also like to see their definitions of Misdemeanor Convictions.

I think I have been quite clear on my views on weapons ownership.

Cat

 

[Katyusha]

Hmmmm,

I would like to see the actual wording of the bill.

I would also like to see their definitions of Misdemeanor Convictions.

I think I have been quite clear on my views on weapons ownership.

Cat

In addition, while current law prohibits a person from possessing a firearm if he or she has been convicted of a felony, this bill would prohibit a person from possessing a firearm if he or she has been convicted of a "violent nonfelony offense" unless five years have passed since the conviction.

Such offenses include misdemeanor battery, misdemeanor harassment, misdemeanor endangering safety by use of a dangerous weapon, exposing genitals to a child, violations of a domestic abuse, child abuse, or harassment temporary restraining order or injunction, and misdemeanors for which the maximum term of imprisonment has been increased for use of a dangerous weapon when committing the misdemeanor.

I haven't looked up the actual text of the bill, so I don't know how "all-inclusive" this list is.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Hmmmm,

I would like to see the actual wording of the bill.

I would also like to see their definitions of Misdemeanor Convictions.

I think I have been quite clear on my views on weapons ownership.

Cat

Click the link, the story says that a misdemeanor which includes violence.

ETA: Kat read the story.

 

[DeeZire]

Click the link, the story says that a misdemeanor which includes violence....

When crimes that include violence are considered misdemeanors, and crimes that don't include violence can be considered felonies, there is something terribly out of whack - an issue that this gun bill will help to address.

 

[JackLuis]

Yet this is all about Individual Rights.

We as citizens of the Republic have responsibilities too.

United we stand, even when we fuck up.

We are responsible for this, each of us who send our Armed Forces, trained in war, to do the job of the Police in places we have no business being.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

We as citizens of the Republic have responsibilities too.

United we stand, even when we fuck up.

We are responsible for this, each of us who send our Armed Forces, trained in war, to do the job of the Police in places we have no business being.

Gee whiz that stories isn't written with any bias is it! You know and I know mistakes happen. Yes their language is a little outrageous but they are adults and for all you know they may have been fired upon prior to that incident or even the day before. And while I fee sorrow for those who were killed, it was most likely a mistake.

Yet, even I could, in hindsight which is a wonderful thing, see that the guy with the camera had just a camera, but video is not like the human eye. It is much better at capturing every nuance it is presented. The human eye is not. The human eye/brain combination does not see everything put in front of it, it sees but a lot is interpreted by the brain. Things like stress, illness and such can effect what the human eye sees.

And a helicopter pilot and gunner flying at altitude, even looking at the video displays in front of them may see things that aren't there. Even the very well trained will make a mistake.

Think back...how many have you made in your life? Maybe not with the deadly consequences as this one but you've made then.

 

[JackLuis]

Gee whiz that stories isn't written with any bias is it! You know and I know mistakes happen. Yes their language is a little outrageous but they are adults and for all you know they may have been fired upon prior to that incident or even the day before. And while I fee sorrow for those who were killed, it was most likely a mistake.

Yet, even I could, in hindsight which is a wonderful thing, see that the guy with the camera had just a camera, but video is not like the human eye. It is much better at capturing every nuance it is presented. The human eye is not. The human eye/brain combination does not see everything put in front of it, it sees but a lot is interpreted by the brain. Things like stress, illness and such can effect what the human eye sees.

And a helicopter pilot and gunner flying at altitude, even looking at the video displays in front of them may see things that aren't there. Even the very well trained will make a mistake.

Think back...how many have you made in your life? Maybe not with the deadly consequences as this one but you've made then.

All of what you said is ~true. We trained the Army to be aggressive and to have massive firepower. We pump the troops with propaganda to keep them aggressive and to insulate them from the horror for what we trained them to do.

However mistakes happen because the in War shit happens. That doesn't remove our responsibility for mistakes made by our troops. The problem is that we use a hammer to kill a fly. True it keeps our troops safer by engaging the "enemy" at long range with devastating firepower, but a AH-64 is not a neighborhood patrol weapon. From 900 yards it is hard to tell the difference between an RPG and a 300 mm lens.

Considering that the Iraqi's carry guns for different reasons and that the Copter didn't see them shoot at anybody, or even act like they were doing anything more threatening than huddling at a street corner, I an surprised that they shot at all, much less shooting the guys who were picking up the bodies. Where is the threat in that?

No this was a mistake that can be traced directly back to El Presidente Bush. He is the one responsible for the troops in Iraq. He must bear the responsibility for all the casualties, military and civilian.

We share the responsibility for the mistake of electing the dim witted asshole, and therefore for the mistakes made by our troops.

It is all well and good to say that it was their fault for bringing kids to a firefight, but they probably didn't even realize the choppers were in the area.

The Arrogance of Power is prone to making mistakes. "W" didn't think about what he was starting. He was chuckleing about how he was going to get Saddam, he evidently wasn't thinking about the civilians that his actions would effect.

Personal rights come with personal responsibilities.