Taking It Personally

[dr_mabeuse]

How do handle criticism of your writing? I don't mean being flamed; I mean honest criticism? Does it effect you personally? Does it sting?

In my experience, writers are more sensitive to criticism than most other artists. I think it's probably because we have nothing but our imaginations and our words to work with. Still, we all have to take criticism is we want to improve, so how do you handle it?

I know that there are people here who don't really care what people think about their stuff, so I'm not really asking them. I want to know what other serious authors do to tyake the sting out of criticism.

---dr.M.

 

[LeatherCandle]

Good Question...

For me, if the criticism is offered in a nice manner I'm more than willing to accept it and work to fix it. If there is something that will make my stories more fluent and therefore give me greater satisfaction in sharing them with others, why not strive to do so? I knew I had a problem with tenses in my stories, changing them whenever I pleased so I have tried to fix that. Just recently though, I had someone point out to me that when the story started to heat up, my paragraphs got longer. I didn't even realize that I did that and so it was nice to have it pointed out. Anything to better my writing.

 

[sailorm72003]

I find that it partially depends on how the criticism is offered, and in regards to what facet of the story.

I don't feel much "sting" if the problems are with the mechanics of the story, there are many, many readers who are much better than I at spotting tense changes, POV inconsistencies and the like- thank goodness for editors, or I'd be stark raving mad by now. (Or, more so than I am

If, on the other hand, the critique is based on the content, it can bite. I have to conciously "step back" and not get defensive about my "baby", and try to examine the story in light of another's impressions.

How the critisism is sent is important too, for me. If the message is sent as a constructive and well-meaning one, I will do my best to read it in the spirit that it was intended, as a way to improve.

The ones that are simply "That story was too long and you're a rotten writer," with no clue as to what it is that offended, I ignore.

Sailor

 

[destinie21]

I take criticism as a compliement.
Whether it be from a "flamer" who hates my style or subject matter (because if I provoked enough emotion for someone to flame me or claim that they hated my story when they took the time to read through it I must at least be thought provoking)
Or whether it be bona fide constructive criticism on the grammatical shortcomings or plot holes ect... (because someone cares enough to want my story and writting to improve.)

As the authour I am soley in charge of the character's and their development as well as the progression of any given storyline I of course "care" about the story but I don't take any offense in other's opinions. That would be as silly as expecting everyone to like me, and being upset if they did not.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I fear criticism of my works. That said I don't think I took it as badly as I expected when I had a story workshopped. Honest critique, from people who I respect seems to come off to me as attempts to help, and thus the sting is lessened. It still stings, I think it always will, but it dosen't hurt.

I am not a good case though, because I am still terribly sensitive to criticism of any kind and react badly to confrontation. Were it not for a couple of dear freinds proping my self esteem up I wouldn't have ever posted and those same two friends had to work over time to keep me from quitting when I got my first harsh Annon feedbacks.

Time and plenty of experience has taken the sting from the anon feedback, but a person I respect saying it isn't good still stings. Especially if I am hapy with it. i don't ask for feedback in the feedback forum because I know I can't take it yet, although I am getting better at it all the time

-Colly

 

[KillerMuffin]

In unasked for criticism, alot of it depends on two things, the tone I perceive from the author and the quality of the criticism. A lot of critics don't try to understand the story/poem or why I wrote it the way I did. They just assume they know a better way. And while I'm not closed to other ways (they might actually be better), I do expect an explanation to be forthcoming is asked for. If I don't understand the reasoning behind a crit, I will ask why.

In asked for criticism, it's a lot easier to take because I specifically asked for it and I had put on my ancient japanese anti-crit armor before I even asked for it.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Depends...

On what the intent is on giving the criticism. If the person offering the criticism actually intends to help, instead of just putting your work down, and that is at least fairly clear, then i can usually take it well. If it becomes and insult...that's another story altogether.

 

[raphy]

Yeah, what everyone else has said. I've got no problems at all with constructive criticism from people who's opinions I trust and respect. _The Haunting Kind_ was critiqued for me by three friends, two of whom are AH regulars. I had no problem with anything they said.

That being said, what I usually do with criticism is I treat it like any other opinion that people have - I take it with a pinch of salt, and take it as read that it's an opinion. That means that I'll make my own judgement on whether it applies to me, or whether that's the critic's own personal feelings coming through.

Some criticism I'll accept and use to make modifications to the story, thus making it better. Some I'll read and disregard because it doesn't apply. Sometimes someone will critique my work and say "Well, this bit needs to be changed because it engendered a feeling of X in me", and I'll read that and think "Well, that's the feeling I wanted to create, so I'm happy with that."

So much of criticism depends on the critic understand what you were trying to achieve in the first place.

 

[Guest]

I think I've been fortunate and only ever had good, constructive criticism. I don't think I"ve ever taken any of it personally, at a level that would hurt my feelings in any way. I always end up viewing my work objectively, no matter the content.

I think my attitude has to do with how I am with myself. I've been though enough in life so that I know nothing can truly harm me besides a death in the family. I'm whole and true to myself. People can disappoint me or hurt my feelings, but no one can hurt "me". So criticism of my writing, or anything else about me (except for my arse), is fine.

Perdita

 

[Guest]

The only criticisms I take personally are those that are done in a mean manner or those that are intended to flame or some such. Real criticism, I think, is a good thing. Someone took the time to read my story and then liked me or the story enough to spend the time to write up what they like and don't like about the story. As long as the criticism is logical and intended in a constructive manner I take it as a good thing.

 

[Singularity]

Flashes of Illumination

I have been blessed (?) with almost-always positive, yet unspecific feedback. It is like candy - it gives you a sugar high, yet does not build muscle mass.

I have had a few situations where the feedback has made a pointed, specific observation or constructive suggestion, that has been like a strobe light going off in a darkened room. In each case, I learned something that should have been obvious, and benefited from it tremendously.

In a few cases, an extended dialog with someone who offered feedback opened up a completely new dimension, with regard to character development, and ended up shining a bright light on a part of the author's psyche that I had never considered before.

While I relish the unconstrained and exuberant expression of satisfaction, I have grown the most from the thoughtful insights offered, rare as they may be.

And of course, the merely weird are saved as ratification that the world, and many of its inhabitents, is a very strange place.


S.

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

As I have said before. I don't take it personally. Pretty much ever. (unless, as I have said before... the person tells me that even my premise for the story sucked....then I just feel like I wasted my time a little).

I write professionally, and you really don't get to that point (or most anyway) if you have a problem with criticism/rejection. To compound that, I write mainly satirical magazine editorials and reviews. So, I can have a piece that I have labored over for days, weeks, months.... I submit it...and without a word, it appears in print completely slashed. A remnant of its former self.

And sometimes I get a little sting because a particular sentence that was a favorite was cut, or whatever. And it will hurt for twenty nine seconds. And then I move on.

What am I gonna do? Cry myself a river and wallow in self pity? Or sit back and be glad that I at least get the opportunity to see my name on a byline at least 4-6 times a month and get sweet little checks in the mail. It would just be indulgent for me to piss and moan about the little things.

So...long story long.... No, I don't get hurt over criticism. I will read it, take what I want and then throw the rest away. If the person is rude or flaming, then I just hit the little ol "delete" key and figure that if there was a nugget of truth in what they are saying, it will be brought to my attention by someone that matters. And if it isn't... it was likely not all that important anyway.

~WOK

 

[whispering_surrender]

Perhaps I'm strange.....(well, to be honest, I know I am), but I prefer well thought out constructive criticism to the vague good ones. "God your so hot, can I fuk u?" doesn't do anything for me personally. But a "I enjoyed your writing, but here are some thoughts to make it better" will give me a smile for hours.

Whisper

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Doc,

I've always been an, "easy edit." It can get frustrating when folks keep coming down on something you like or can't figure out how to change/improve. But that's part of the game.

Strange as this may seem, I enjoy going over an excerpt with other writers, whether it's mine or theirs. For me, both can be learning experiences. Besides, it's about as much fun and stimulation as I can handle these days.

If someone becomes more a critic than a critique writer, I try to find any stray pearls of wisdom among the oyster shells they're tossing my way. Then I discard the latter. As others have pointed out, warm fuzzies are nice to get, but not really helpful.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Madame Manga]

In my experience, writers are more sensitive to criticism than most other artists. I think it's probably because we have nothing but our imaginations and our words to work with. Still, we all have to take criticism is we want to improve, so how do you handle it?

I am a professional artist and also do personal artwork, so I've certainly had crit on aspects of my creative work other than my writing. I don't know if writers are more sensitive than people who paint and sculpt. They are better at expressing their outrage when their feelings get hurt, perhaps.

Professional artwork is what shaped my attitude towards criticism in general: my work is not me; therefore criticism of my work, however harsh or badly expressed, cannot hurt me unless I use it to hurt myself. I can't control how feedback comes to me, but I can control my reaction to it. I make grateful use of what is useful, I smile at the unqualified praise, and I let the rest run off my back.

No, I'm not a robot or a Zen monk. It took me a lot of pain to get to this point, and I get out of practice sometimes. As KM said, solicited crit is much easier to handle with grace, and as Perdita said, there are much worse things life can hurl at you. Perspective always helps.

MM

 

[Seattle Zack]

Strange as this may seem, I enjoy going over an excerpt with other writers, whether it's mine or theirs. For me, both can be learning experiences.

That's an interesting point, Rumple, I've noticed the same thing myself. I'll read something by someone else and think "I wouldn't have done it that way." Then I read it again and think, "Hey, that actually works very well."

Being so close to your work, writing being such a solitary pursuit, often doesn't give the perspective required to view it as a whole. I had someone read through a story I was submitting and she was quite complimentary, overall. Then she said "but these two scenes are so pivotal ... why are they so short?"

When taking a step back (after getting over my initial fury), and trying to view it like she had suggested, I could tell immediately that she was right -- those scenes were rushed, and needed more exposition.

It's almost a duality with me ... I need to tell the writer inside me to step aside, and appreciate the perspective of The Reader. After all, that's why we push this damn rock up the hill, ain't it? So The Reader can roll it down and say "start over..."

 

[Green_Gem]

We are all human, and I think as a general rule criticism does sting. No-one likes to be pulled down or criticized but within the framework of art or writing, and with the objective of improvement in mind, I try and accept it objectively and look at it philosophically.

My sense is that I cannot possibly satisfy all readers all the time, so I have to write something that I am reasonably satisfied with. I don’t think writers are ever completely satisfied with their work. I know I’m not. Once it has been submitted, despite feedback and votes, I often pick up things that could have been done better, or that should be different. So for me, my writing is always a work in progress where I continue learning and growing and with each submission I hope to write ‘the perfect story’ to challenge myself, to push my own boundries, and so the cycle goes.

As for feedback and constructive criticism, I welcome it, but I take from it what I believe can help me without getting upset or enraged. I have never had a story work shopped or actively asked for feedback on the Boards, because I learned a valuable lesson when I first began submitting to Lit. Someone offered to do just that and I accepted the offer graciously, only to find, that while there were some useful points that were made, the reviewer had a completely different perspective and style to mine and so the person began recreating the story in a way that lost my voice. I didn’t even recognize it, couldn’t identify with it. And since the most satisfying part of writing, for me, is the expression of my own imagination and creativity. Why should I give that up in a quest to write a story that is acceptable by someone else’ standards or personal style?

There are a few established writers on Lit, who I have been in contact with because of feedback that I have sent to them on a story or visa versa. I value and respect their opinions on my work because I know that they are sincere and any criticism that is leveled is with my best interests in mind, and not out of spite or competitiveness. Of course, there is a great high associated with getting positive feedback from readers, but even that I try to look at objectively. I far more appreciate their comments on WHY they enjoyed it rather than how horny it got them, or why they didn’t like it, rather than how rude they are. While I agree with the writers who have said that sometimes an angry response means you have touched readers on an emotional level and they have read the entire story hence the acid reply. I am doubtful that they always do read the full story. It’s just as easy to click onto the author’s name or flip the page to the feedback section and write a poison reply. I would honestly only take it seriously if they made actual reference to the specifics of the story instead of spewing vitriolic comments, and even then I wouldn’t let it get to me in such a negative way that it could stifle my future attempts at writing.

Green_G

 

[sanchopanza]

I take it this was provoked by me. Anyway what you don't know of me I'd like to say that of everything said in this thread I agree most with whispering_surrender. Any comments on anything I've written I don't like unless it is precise in what it tries to tell me - I've had a few people send me feedback and just said "keep it up" or one odd one was "you contribute something darkly mysterious, keep going" what the hell is that? I appreciate it, sure, but even good comments could be made better by suggestions - such as try not to . . . this plot device is awkward, try such and such . . . so I only take criticism badly if it is not laced with suggestions; I have had too much criticism that simply says "this doesn't work" or "I didn't like it".

 

[Icingsugar]

Slandering trolls don't get to me. Not anymore. And those that offers some serious constructive critisism (eg "I think you should improve this and that") are always welcomed. But those that annoys me are those that seems 100% serious, but does nothing other than hack and slash.

I got one of those yesterday for my latest story. The note was very articulate and well put together, by a woman who said "This is so unrealistic and because of that I fail to see the eroticism in it. You got a 1 from me." And then explains why.

And that's great. If it didn't work for her, it didn't work for her. But then she has to finish off with "makes me think that you need someone else to think up your 'plots'. They can't be worse or more weak than this" Yeah lady, you altready said that. Did you have to be impolite about it too?

No reply mail, of course.

Point is, I've been putting different creative work up for the public eye for close to a decade now, and have learned, as most of you I guess, how to accept and even enjoy critisism in general. And I've also learned (that was easy) to filter out the wackos. It's when honest, serios minded people can't fucking behave that I fly off on a wrong tangent.

 

[Lovepotion69]

I've always been bad at taking criticism, but for some reason I don't take it as bad when it's not my folks giving it...

I'm much better at taking criticism nowadays than a few years back, that goes for any type of criticism. Constructive criticism is nowadays appreciated and in a way I'm forcing myself to learn to take it. So far so good, although now I think I'm taking constructive criticism almost too serious. I get worried about all the wrong things I've done and try to figure out how to please everyone.

 

[Angeline]

Having worked as an editor for many years, I think I have a good perspective on reviews of my writing. I understand that it's someone else's opinion, no more or less. I agree that the best feedback is specific and includes suggestion for revision, but recognize that most people are not trained to do that. Therefore, I consider every comment, even if it seems really off or unduly harsh. It's best to keep an open mind. Even the silliest flame comes from someone who read what I wrote--there may be some opportunity for me to learn and improve.

I really don't see a critique as a judgment of me or the value of my writing, but rather as an opportunity to improve. I take what I can use from it and reject what I cant.

 

[jessy19]

I love honest feedback even if it's harsh. I do prefer to get nice intelligent feedback instead of the usual "Oh god you write hot stories you made me hard" Which i don't mind and it is flattering but I prefer to knwo what I could improve in my writing. *s*

 

[Pornofan420]

Socrates said "Know thyself". Well, a lot of people have said he said that. He probably said something in Greek.

One thing I do know about myself is I'm impatient. My every urge is to HIT THE SUBMIT BUTTON AND GET IT IN AND WHY HAVEN'T THEY APPROVED IT YET?! I have to restrain myself, to make myself craft the sentences and see how the story flows. This is also largely because I tend to jerk off while writing and get distracted. I've only got 3 stories up so far, but I'm planning on working with the volunteer editor program because I do think I'd benefit from an outside perspective. I've only gotten good criticism so far and it's been the type of stuff that has given me food for thought on how I next want to write. I'm very interested in working with people who can help me craft it while it's in progress.

I've yet to get any "you suck, why are you writing?" criticism, but I think I'll be okay. Growning up a near-friendless, book-reading heavy metal geek in black, drowning in an overly-coiffed, gold-chain-bedecked sea of semi-literate Brooklyn/Queens disco-victims during the 80s, I learned early that there are two types of people in this world.

There are those who have demonstrated that they care about me as a person, value my company, think I have something to offer, and in general want good things for me. These I call friends. I listen to them, speak with them, consult with them, and consider their perspectives, opinions, advice, and criticism as I pick and wend my way through life and I offer them the same and in this, all our lives are made better and stronger.

And if they say something I didn't want to hear, I must at least engage it and see if it has merit and act on it if it does. And I can do that because they are a friend and have demonstrated that they want good things for me and value me so I can listen with an open heart to what they have to say.

Anyone else is a stranger and the opinions of strangers mean nothing to me.

Feedback from friends, to me, carries some variation on the message "Hey, I think you have something good going on here and I think you can make it even better." Feedback from friends is trying to improve me, trying to give me a hand further up the mountain.

"You suck" letters come from strangers and their opinions are worthless.

Be well,

PF420

 

[pop_54]

Same as

Waste of time posting really cos nothing much to add, same as everyone else, but I thought I'd support your thread.

Constructive advice and critical comment, OK I accept and try to buck up if needed.

Compliments and glowing feedback, lovely feeling.

Idiot non constructive verbal abuse, ignore as from an idiot with no talent themselves.

 

[Seattle Zack]

When I do get "critical" analysis of a story, one thing I often do is check out the reviewer's own stories, to get an idea of their particular style and preferences. It helps put their remarks in context.

Doc's tales, for instance, have a great sense of story and a very fluid pace, and I've always found his reviews of others' work on the Story Feedback thread to be quite insightful.

But someone who feels compelled to dissect a story without having the talent or the balls to post a story of their own ... well, I tend to give that type of feedback a lot less credence.