Take that, teacher! Screw you, sir!

[THBGato]

Does anyone else take especial delight in writing words, phrases, sentences, even paragraphs that you just know your English teacher back a school would have scolded you for?

Every now and then I begin a sentence with "And" as the rhythm of the words demands it. And I know that, had I done so thirty plus years ago, that sentence would have come back with lots of red pen over it.

I get my thrills where I can these days!

Anyone else? Or just me?

 

[HordHolm]

Does anyone else take especial delight in writing words, phrases, sentences, even paragraphs that you just know your English teacher back a school would have scolded you for?

Every now and then I begin a sentence with "And" as the rhythm of the words demands it. And I know that, had I done so thirty plus years ago, that sentence would have come back with lots of red pen over it.

I get my thrills where I can these days!

Anyone else? Or just me?

Oh yes, 'and'.... and 'but'.... It also unfortunately pisses off the admissions of a particular Australian based sci-fi/fantasy magazine, who will boot you for having the temerity

 

[alohadave]

Every now and then I begin a sentence with "And" as the rhythm of the words demands it. And I know that, had I done so thirty plus years ago, that sentence would have come back with lots of red pen over it.

That's basic advice for children who are learning to write. Starting a sentence with And or But are perfectly fine, but kids who are learning will tend to overuse them.

If you don't learn anything past grade school grammar and English, you would think that those are hard rules, but they aren't.

 

[MrHereWriting]

Does anyone else take especial delight in writing words, phrases, sentences, even paragraphs that you just know your English teacher back a school would have scolded you for?

I have nothing against my past English teachers, but if I had tried to write my Lit stories in their classes, which I enjoyed writing, they would have done more than just scold me.

 

[THBGato]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I loved English and most of my teachers. But it still feels fun to knowingly break some "rules" (I am fully aware that English, lacking an equivalent of La Academie Francais, actually has no official rules, and is more descriptivist than prescriptivist. But still...)

 

[TheLobster]

My English teacher would be delighted by the mere fact that I can write a paragraph of prose without looking up words in the dictionary or making (too many) grammatical mistakes.

But I guess this doesn't really count since I'm talking about an ESL teacher here

 

[SimonDoom]

As a former English teacher, I'll just say you may be giving your English teachers short shrift.

I have no problem with starting sentences with "and" or using split infinitives now and then or ending sentences with prepositions when circumstances justify it.

Without a little grammatical rebellion, what would the erotic world come to?

But use that serial comma, dammit!*


*As an American, I refuse to use the term "Oxford" comma.

 

[MillieDynamite]

There are no hard and fast rules for writing fiction! We do what works best for the reader, or at least we try. The rules have officially been loosened on And, If, But at the beginning and for prepositions at the end.

 

[SimonDoom]

When you think about your English teacher, way back when, barking at you about all the grammar rules you're supposed to follow, think about the scene at the beginning of the movie Full Metal Jacket, when Gunnery Sergeant Hartman first addresses his new bunch of recruits. He addresses them as "grabastic pieces of amphibian shit." His job is to teach them how to follow rules so that as Marines they can survive in combat. In combat, of course, they're going to have to improvise, but having the foundation of discipline and rules will maximize their chances of surviving the battle.

It's an imperfect analogy, but not completely inapt. When you are a high school English teacher, facing a class of, say, 30 kids, there might be one or two who intuitively pick up on grammar well enough that they don't need the drill sergeant approach. But the rest need the foundation, first. You can't tell students, "Just listen to your muse and do what feels right." That's not a recipe for success in any field-- carpentry, surgery, computer programming, piano playing, or writing. English teachers take on the gunnery sergeant role of instilling the rules of the language, and the best students will one day transcend those rules. But in most cases, having that foundation helps maximize the chances of success.

 

[alohadave]

When you think about your English teacher, way back when, barking at you about all the grammar rules you're supposed to follow, think about the scene at the beginning of the movie Full Metal Jacket, when Gunnery Sergeant Hartman first addresses his new bunch of recruits. He addresses them as "grabastic pieces of amphibian shit." His job is to teach them how to follow rules so that as Marines they can survive in combat. In combat, of course, they're going to have to improvise, but having the foundation of discipline and rules will maximize their chances of surviving the battle.

It's an imperfect analogy, but not completely inapt. When you are a high school English teacher, facing a class of, say, 30 kids, there might be one or two who intuitively pick up on grammar well enough that they don't need the drill sergeant approach. But the rest need the foundation, first. You can't tell students, "Just listen to your muse and do what feels right." That's not a recipe for success in any field-- carpentry, surgery, computer programming, piano playing, or writing. English teachers take on the gunnery sergeant role of instilling the rules of the language, and the best students will one day transcend those rules. But in most cases, having that foundation helps maximize the chances of success.

Learn the rules to know when to break them.

 

[SimonDoom]

Learn the rules to know when to break them.

Right. I think that's how good writing works.

 

[Voboy]

*As an American, I refuse to use the term "Oxford" comma.

You can. Just pretend they invented it in Mississippi, and bob's your uncle.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

As a former English teacher, I'll just say you may be giving your English teachers short shrift.

I have no problem with starting sentences with "and" or using split infinitives now and then or ending sentences with prepositions when circumstances justify it.

Without a little grammatical rebellion, what would the erotic world come to?

But use that serial comma, dammit!*


*As an American, I refuse to use the term "Oxford" comma.

One of the weirder experiences when I first started writing here in English was learning to use "and" after a comma. In English, it's quite common to use it in such a way yet in my own language comma can never precede "and". That thing has been messing with my brain for so long. Now I regularly use commas before "and" but when writing something in my own language I now have to force myself not to put it before "and".

Someone should make these things universal for all languages. Revive the fucking Esperanto project!

 

[Reenigam]

Fine but just a couple of teensy caveats.

1. In this arena as in so many others certain people don't know when to stop.
2. Never mind "rebellion"... there are those who simply didn't/couldn't acquire the rules in the first place.

And not forgetting:

3. It has been the defensive battle cry of the incompetent down the ages that "it" - whatever "it" is - doesn't matter. Some take a perverse kind of pride in thinking that their lack of ability is somehow actually laudable in itself.

By the way, in the OP title there should be a comma after "that"...

 

[AG31]

Does anyone else take especial delight in writing words, phrases, sentences, even paragraphs that you just know your English teacher back a school would have scolded you for?

Every now and then I begin a sentence with "And" as the rhythm of the words demands it. And I know that, had I done so thirty plus years ago, that sentence would have come back with lots of red pen over it.

I get my thrills where I can these days!

Anyone else? Or just me?

Yeah. I enjoy seeing "improper" sentences in books by well respected authors.

 

[MrPixel]

...in Mississippi, and bob's your uncle.

That being the case, Bob's probably also your cousin.

Yeah, I knowingly break a lot of grammatical rules, too. As mentioned above, the rhythm is important, too. I have one particular English teacher to thank for that.

 

[TheLobster]

By the way, in the OP title there should be a comma after "that"...

Maybe she’s ordering her underlings.

“Take that teacher! Put him in the deepest, dankest cell!” She turns to him and yells, “Screw you, sir!”

 

[THBGato]

By the way, in the OP title there should be a comma after "that"...

Oops!

 

[alohadave]

Someone should make these things universal for all languages. Revive the fucking Esperanto project!

Last I heard a couple years ago, there are about 100,000 speakers, and some speak it as their first language.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Last I heard a couple years ago, there are about 100,000 speakers, and some speak it as their first language.

Meh, too few

Maybe we could work out some erotic language of our own here. We could have tit-like letters! We could... Imagine every "but" becoming a "butt"! Endless possibilities.

After all, smut works the same everywhere... except in Thailand

 

[TheLobster]

Someone should make these things universal for all languages. Revive the fucking Esperanto project!

.i li’a rodo bapli tavla fo la lojban.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

.i li’a rodo bapli tavla fo la lojban.

You managed to confuse even Google translate

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Learn the rules to know when to break them.

Pablo? Pablo Picasso, is that you?

-Rocco

 

[StillStunned]

As I recall, back in the 1990s when Seamus Heaney did his translation of Beowulf, a whole bunch of purists were up in arms about how he translated "Hwaet!" as "So!" Besides not being the "accepted" translation (they preferred "Listen!"), it was just *wrong* to start a sentence with "so".

Nowadays half the people will begin their story by saying "So anyway...", but 25 years ago it was a huge no-no in literary circles.

 

[Bazzle]

Does anyone else take especial delight in writing words, phrases, sentences, even paragraphs that you just know your English teacher back a school would have scolded you for?

Every now and then I begin a sentence with "And" as the rhythm of the words demands it. And I know that, had I done so thirty plus years ago, that sentence would have come back with lots of red pen over it.

I get my thrills where I can these days!

Anyone else? Or just me?

it is quite interesting how many children's books start sentences with an And...it grates.