Sweden wants the blood of gay men

[onceburned]

erm... well, more so than the American Red Cross, which categorically bans from donating blood any man who has had sex with another guy.

The Prime Minister of Sweden, Goeran Persson, recently stated that gay men should be allowed to donate blood. But the American Red Cross has taken refuge behind the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) which supports the practice of excluding gays from blood drives.

Should the Red Cross (and similar organizations) get our blood? Or do keep it for our own nefarious purposes? You decide.

p.s. If you live outside the U.S. what is the policy of your blood agencies regarding donations by gay men?

 

[DarkAurora]

When I read the title, "Sweden wants the blood of gay men.", I imagined massive murders and stuff.

Anyways, I think this policy against gay men is completely discriminatory and AIDS is just an excuse. The blood is tested for AIDS no matter who donates. I'm pretty sure the recipitents who are in a life and death situation don't really care if the donor was queer.

 

[Wolfman1982]

great news with Sweden.

i edited the other stuff out.

Because that has nothing of substance in it.

 

[-phreak]

hehe, and I'm gonna go give the red cross blood next week. I'm a girl though, let's see if they ask me weird questions

they usually do anyways....

 

[rcuhljr]

That would be such a better excuse then I don't like needles... I like the 6 inch needle

 

[robbie_boy1]

blood

the attitude in the US is don't ask, don't tell, just like everything else in this country. The red cross tests all blood that is given and will let you know if you are HIV pos if necessary. You do need to be honest as to who you are. Not all gay or bi people have disease........geez...........

 

[lonelysmile]

Everyone needs to get over and move past this sterotype that all men who have sex with other men have AIDS. Besides, as was stated before, all blood is tested, and just like the arguement about gay/bi men's sperm, they wait to pass it out and, yes, HIV/AIDS can be found in the tests. It's an old excuse and blood donation just gets added to the list of ways gay/bi men are discriminated against.

When I was in High School, we could give blood in the gym a few times a year and when you would sign up, they'd have a sheet with discriptions of the type of people who couldn't give blood- "men who have had sex with other men" or something of that sort. Really pissed me off... but the poor high school student sitting at the table wasn't of any help to me as I started ranting and raving.

That's just my opinion/rant...

Fuckin' discrimination.

 

[Etoile]

While looking at the thread list, for a split second I said "huh?" and then I figured it out.

Nice to see that Sweden is looking for blood from queers. The Red Cross is totally backwards with this one.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Etoile: Sweden is like , Denmark was in the past. Now Denmark is beginning to be a bit strange.(no offence to any danes).

Since, Denmark did great things in the past, like they were the first to do gender change operations. They were the first to legalise same sex marriages, and they even legalised porn in 1969.

But Denmark has some very indeed dark sides, like in the doctor journals there stood until 1980, that homosexuality was an illness/sickness/disease.

And they even castrated people in the 1950´s (and a bit before) since they thought they could cure them for their homosexuality.

And there are many other dark sides in Denmark.

 

[bimori]

hehe, and I'm gonna go give the red cross blood next week. I'm a girl though, let's see if they ask me weird questions

they usually do anyways....

I give blood often . They ask you the same questions 10 time just in different ways . The thing that get me is they ask no questions about people that have many sex partners only about gay male sex ???

 

[Lavared]

And there are many other dark sides in Denmark.

But who doesn't love akvavit?

Every year the restrictions get tighter and tighter. I know the Red Cross is trying to prevent giving anyone disease but with them testing everything already it seems useless and redundant.

Now if you've ever been in Zaire or have spent more than six months in the UK etc. they won't take it. And this is with only, what, 2% (?) of the population donating and supplies running low.

I donate all the time but then I'll do anything for free cookies.

 

[Wolfman1982]

But who doesn't love akvavit?

lol i am not fond of snaps my self , but if the snaps get you going, then fine and peace with that.

 

[Lavared]

I used to hang out with a bunch of Danish expatriates living in the States and did acquire a taste for that and for smoked herring but those nastly little black licorice things shaped like coins are just too much for me to handle. They eat them like candy though. (ok, it is candy - duh)

There are a lot of good things about the Scandanavians, their taste in food and drink notwithstanding. Very forward thinking in some ways - certainly more so than in the U.S.

 

[Etoile]

Since, Denmark did great things in the past, like they were the first to do gender change operations. They were the first to legalise same sex marriages, and they even legalised porn in 1969.

I'm a bit confused. Porn is definitely legal in the United States. Is Denmark's 1989 "registered partnership" law considered equivalent to marriage, or is it actually marriage? (I'm thinking of the U.S. civil rights era debate about separate but equal here.) It was my understanding that the only countries that allow same-sex marriage under the same laws as opposite-sex marriage were Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, and Canada. And I may be wrong, but didn't SRS surgery originate in Germany in the early 1930s, with Magnus Hirschfeld, on Rudolph Richter?

I certainly did not realize Denmark had such a positive attitude toward homosexuality and transgender persons, though. Fantastic!

 

[onceburned]

And I may be wrong, but didn't SRS surgery originate in Germany in the early 1930s, with Magnus Hirschfeld, on Rudolph Richter?

Its a bit murky since transsexuals have sought to remove their gonads throughout history - castration so men could live as women or as a third sex is ancient. And hysterectomies for the sake of removing the ovaries were sought as soon as surgery was possible.

But sexuality was being studied in Europe, and a "drive for sex transformation" was identified in 1916 by Max Marcuse. And this is where the pioneering sex change surgery was taking place, on animals and on humans. I am quoting from Joanne Meyerowitz' book How Sex Changed, Havard University Press, 2002:

ut most of the early human sex change operations took place in Germany. According to one account from Berlin, a female-to-male "tranvestite" had his breasts and uterus removed in 1912, followed by removal of ovaries in 1921.

p. 18

The first complete genital transformation arranged through Hirschfeld's institute was that of Dorchen Richter, a male to female who underwent castration in 1922, and in 1931 had her penis removed and a vagina surgically constructed.

p. 19

Etoile, I am impressed by your knowledge!

 

[Etoile]

Thank you - I have several books on queer history and I enjoy studying that.

Dorchen Richter is the one I was thinking of - I couldn't come up with her female name.

That sounds like a cool book - I shall add it to my Amazon wishlist!

 

[Wolfman1982]

Etoile:
registered partnership, is the same as marriage,when it comes to same sex.

Axel and Eigil, were the two who became husband husband in 1989.

Lavared: Piratos, is the name if i remember right about the candy, and about the gender change. I could be wrong.

 

[Etoile]

I am still uncertain given the "separate but equal" beliefs from U.S. history. Why is Denmark not usually acknowledged internationally as being the first to permit gay marriage? The four countries I mentioned earlier are the ones who are the most-mentioned.

 

[onceburned]

Why is Denmark not usually acknowledged internationally as being the first to permit gay marriage?

That is a good question. When I did a google search, I came across many conservative writers who all refer to gay marriage in Denmark, or Sweden or Norway.

This is from the International Gay and Lesbian Association:

In 1989 Denmark became the first country in the world to introduce a law on registered partnership for two persons of the same sex (Act 372 of 7 June 1989, in force as of 1 October 1989). The law enables two persons of the same sex to register their partnership and gives them (with some exceptions) the same rights and responsibilities as a heterosexual married couple. <snip> Apart from these exceptions, the conditions are exactly the same as for heterosexual marriage. The wedding is the same as for civil marriage and the divorce regulations are the same, too.

So its kind of a civil marriage but a bit less: artficial insemination is denied to lesbian couples, foreign adoptions are not allowed, non-citizens have to live in Denmark two years before they are eligible, church weddings are not permitted.

http://www.ilga.info/Information/Legal_survey/europe/denmark.htm

I am not certain but I don't think the Danes refer to it as marriage but as partnership, much like a 'civil union' is in the U.S. But a difference is that straight couples also get the same 'civil union' unless they choose a church wedding.

I think Denmark does what I favor - it gets the government out of the marriage business. Marriage, in Denmark, (I think) is something that only concerns religion. Everyone else gets the equivalent of a civil union.

So does Denmark have gay marriage? I dunno...I think the answer is based upon how you define the words.

 

[Wolfman1982]

well, I call it marriage, since you can get married in a city hall, and in a church. and the marriage between same sex, is done in the city hall.

and doctors are not allowed to inseminate lesbian couples. but the persons who helps at births are allowed to do it.

But, every dane i have talked to, calls the registered partnership for marriage. And i have talked with lots of danes

but yes the church wedding is still not legal. But i don´t want to go into that discussion, because my own opinion on the subject is, that same sex marriages should be legal between same sex in churches also.

anyway, i think it is a good thing that Sweden wants the bloos of gays and etc.

 

[Etoile]

Ah, that answers my question perfectly. If there are exceptions, it's not only separate but also unequal. I don't mean to put Denmark down here, or to belittle the progressiveness of the country (which, as a Jew, I have known about for a long time). What Denmark has done is fantastic, but I cannot call it equal - especially on topics like insemination for lesbians and foreign adoptions. Granted, more than 1,000 benefits to marriage have been identified in the United States, so Denmark's few exceptions seem minor in comparison, but my personal feeling is that it probably can't be equal marriage rights when exceptions are present.