Sweden in a box

[TheEarl]

In one of my more thrilling lectures this year, one of the professors went off on a side-track and told us this interesting piece of information:

Apparently, the Swedish government have commissioned a computer simulation of every one of its 12 million inhabitants, taking in such information as who they're going out with, whether they have children, who their friends are, who their children's friends are, whether they go to church etc. It's going to be based on data from the last census and other government polls.

The official excuse is they can use it as a test for disasters, eg. you give this simulated person anthrax and see how quickly it spreads through the population.

I'm dubious as to whether it can be pulled off (that amount of programming would be a mission for a city, let alone a country), but is anyone else just a little bit worried about the security aspects? It has true 'Enemy of the State' potential - the government could find out who your friends are, where you go to church, etc and stand a very good chance of finding you should they feel the need.

How do people feel about the possibility of a little computerised Svenskaflicka running around on some Swedish mainframe?

The Earl

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Have we reached 12 millions already? I thought we were only 9 millions?

There's no need for worry. They won't digitalize this Swede - a stimulation based on my data would be way, way, WAY too unbelievable!

 

[Liar]

It sounds like a neato idea to this Swede. I mean, they don't have any info to put into that thing other than what is on public record anyway, what they do with that I don't really care. If it makes them happy, and maye help someone somewhere, go right ahead.

But then again, that thang will be so inaccurate that I wonder what the point is. Not even my own mother knows the names of most of my friends, or who I'm going out with. How the heck would the guv'ment know then?

#Liar

 

[Liar]

Oh yeah, and 12 million data (plus, Svenskaflicka is rught, we're about 9 mil) units in a gridded relation matrix? I don't see why that would be too much of a programming obstacle. It's not the mass of the posts that raise the stakes, it's the parameters per post. I could program this on my pc at home, as the mechanics would be the same for a thosand as ten million "people". But I think I'd need a helluva big computer to actually run the simulation.


Sorry, snapping out of geek mode right away.

#Liar

 

[kellycummings]

I'm not seeing too much harm in the whole thing. I mean, the government in most countries can easily find out anything they want about you anyway so putting it all in a computer would only be speeding up the process a bit.
I think that books like 1984 and movies like Enemy of the State and the countless conspiracy theories out there have made most of us paranoid when there really isn't a reason to be.
So what if they know everything about you. If you haven't done anything wrong then what purpose would it serve them. If you have done something wrong then you need to be found anyway.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I'm in two minds about this. There has been some fuss around here about people having to sign up to be allowed to gamble in the casino, and some people are upset that there are security cameras in there.

While I can understand the uneasiness of being filmed and watched over like some sort of Big Brother (from 1984, not the soap!!!), then on the other hand, I feel that if you're not doing anything illegal, then you have nothing to hide. It may be embarrassing to be filmed while picking your nose, but that's a small price to pay if the cameras can help us catch criminals.

This thing sounds like a sort of surveillance, to me. OK, so they already have the info, and they're not gonna watch us, and everyone gave them that information by their own free will...

Still, I'd like to know more about it before I make up my mind whether it's good or bad. I want to know what they're going to do, and what possible consequences this might have.

 

[Liar]

I'm guessing that it is a way to simulate as accurately as possible, how a shitload of people do things as a group.

Say that you have a major disaster. Blowing up a nuclear power plant or something like that, and you need to evacuate Stockholm. What would happen? Or what would happen if I took a road trip through the land, farting small-pox along the way? It's statistics on an epic scale.

It's all an upgraded version of this, where every dot has it's individual agenda, instead of just a general rule.
http://kevan.org/proce55ing/zombies/

#Liar

 

[Guest]

How do people feel about the possibility of a little computerised Svenskaflicka running around on some Swedish mainframe?

Frankly, it turns me on.

Pear

 

[oggbashan]

Sounds like a stupid idea. A model can be made from sample data. Increasing the population sample to the whole population is unlikely to make any significant difference to the answers.

MathGirl could give the definitive answer. At what point does diminishing returns set in?

Og

 

[Guest]

Ogg, haven't you heard? Maths is indisposed, to put it politely. See the Valentine from Mexico thread.

Perdita

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Ogg, haven't you heard? Maths is indisposed, to put it politely. See the Valentine from Mexico thread.

Perdita

Not so much indisposed as exposed, I'd say...

 

[Guest]

Not so much indisposed as exposed, I'd say...

You , you.

P.

 

[oggbashan]

Ogg, haven't you heard? Maths is indisposed, to put it politely. See the Valentine from Mexico thread.

Perdita

I didn't think you, of all people, would equate a trip to Mexico with an indisposition.

Has Maths got Montezuma's Revenge, or is 'a trip to Mexico' a euphemism for something entirely different e.g. 'Daddy's on holiday' = 'Daddy's doing 7 to 10 years in jail'?

Og

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Besides, you shouldn't believe gallups. Us Swedes are tricky people. We may say one thing in those interviews, and then we'll go right ahead and do/vote the opposite.

It's sort of that whole "ask a dumb question, get a dumb answer"- thing.

 

[Guest]

I didn't think you, of all people, would equate a trip to Mexico with an indisposition.

Read near the end of the thread, Ogg; it's not Mexico that's the problem.

Perdita

 

[Black Tulip]

It sounds like a neato idea to this Swede. I mean, they don't have any info to put into that thing other than what is on public record anyway, what they do with that I don't really care. If it makes them happy, and maye help someone somewhere, go right ahead.

But then again, that thang will be so inaccurate that I wonder what the point is. Not even my own mother knows the names of most of my friends, or who I'm going out with. How the heck would the guv'ment know then?

#Liar

Maybe I'm scared of my own shadow on this, but to be frank, it frightens me.

In WWII the most Jews were deported from Holland. Do you know why? Because we had such an excellent administrative system. It was damn easy to find everybody.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

There was a moronic suggestion a few years ago, that all women who had abortions should be registered. It never went through, but the whole idea of registing someone for something like that was outrageous.

And I think it's horribe to register people according to religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, or politics - unless they belong to some organisation who have openly stated that their goal is to destroy democracy, like the neo-nazis. And I think it's only fair that criminals are registered to.

The rest of us - fight oppression!

 

[kellycummings]

I'm in two minds about this. There has been some fuss around here about people having to sign up to be allowed to gamble in the casino, and some people are upset that there are security cameras in there.

Why in the world would someone be upset about security cameras in a casino? Even people who try to cheat the casinos know that the camera are a fact of life in a business that deals with so much money.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

They say it's an insult to their integrity to get filmed. They think that it should be a private matter if they gamble. They don't want other people to be able to prove their dirty secrets.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

Oops, now there are two of her.

Oh, oh, I want one.

Perdita

 

[Lovepotion69]

They say it's an insult to their integrity to get filmed. They think that it should be a private matter if they gamble. They don't want other people to be able to prove their dirty secrets.

Mmm, and the same country who runs these Casino's go out with warnings like "Don't gamble too much, it might turn into an addiction and you'll end up bankrupt/in debt". I mean, they even have the Casino personell check up who is there "too" often! Makes me wonder why they bother with Casino's, I thought the idea was to empty the gamer's pockets!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I think they're just protecting their interests. They have to stop people from completely ruining themselves, or they'll lose costumers.

Kinda like a drug dealer eager to make sure his clients stay alive so they can buy more dope from him.

 

[Liar]

Maybe I'm scared of my own shadow on this, but to be frank, it frightens me.

In WWII the most Jews were deported from Holland. Do you know why? Because we had such an excellent administrative system. It was damn easy to find everybody.

As I said, it's not about locating individuals. It's about gathering a humongous sample of statistics to run possible scenarios on it. It won't be able to tell where I'm at.

And if someone tries to collect personal data about who my firends are, what I had for dinner, or who I'm dating or whatever, I'll just do like many a Swede with me. I'll lie until my nose starts to grow, until pigs fly and until smurfs jumps out my ears.

#Liar

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Exactamundo.