Supreme Court Considers Overturning 1st Amendment.

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WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration's top courtroom lawyer defended congressional efforts keep Internet porn away from youngsters, telling the Supreme Court that pornography causes "substantial and calculable damage to our children."

"The Child Online Protection Act is Congress's response to that urgent national problem," Solicitor General Theodore Olson told the justices Wednesday.

The law makes it illegal for commercial Web sites to post pictures and text deemed "harmful to minors," unless efforts were made to prevent children under 17 from accessing the material. The statute relies in part on "community standards" to identify harmful material.

A federal appeals court in Philadelphia last year said the 1999 statute seemed to trample free-speech rights and upheld a preliminary injunction blocking it.

High Court Will Review Congress's Attempt to Keep Sexual Content From Kids Online (Nov. 26)

The challenge to the law has been led by civil liberties groups and a large number of Web publishers. The statute "makes it a crime to communicate protected speech to adults over the World Wide Web," American Civil Liberties Union attorney Ann Beeson told the court.

During the hour-long argument session, the justices focused on the statute's "community standards" test, which the appeals court said imposed an "impermissible burden" on protected speech. Since Web publishers can't block access based on where a visitor lives, their sites could be "judged by the standards of the community most likely to be offended by the message," the court ruled.

Mr. Olson argued that the so-called community-standards yardstick didn't refer to geographic locations, but rather what the average adult in the U.S. would deem harmful to youngsters. He said Congress believed that would lead to a fairly uniform standard across the country.

Some justices questioned how jurors would decide the standard. Anthony M. Kennedy wondered whether a California jury should consider what standards exist in New York or other parts of the country. "I think it's a difficult question," he said.

Justice Antonin Scalia said the "community standards" test has long been used to measure obscenity, which doesn't receive First Amendment protection. "Why should it be any different for pornography?" he asked.

The statute doesn't cover material with literary, artistic or scientific value to children. That exception "sands off some of the rough edges" that might accompany geographic considerations, said Justice David H. Souter.

Ms. Beeson told the high court that the statute would force Web publishers to guess what kind of material may be deemed harmful to minors. That would lead to self-censorship and transform the Internet into an information pipeline "that is fit only for children."

She also said there were less restrictive ways -- parental controls like filtering or blocking software -- to keep raunchy Web sites out of youngsters' view.

Plaintiffs in the original lawsuit included the Sexual Health Network, a site geared toward people with disabilities, and PlanetOut, an online community for homosexuals and lesbians. Other plaintiffs included Salon Media Group's general-interest Webzine Salon.com and Riotgrrl, a site targeted to young women.

The statute was Congress' answer to a Supreme Court ruling that struck down a 1996 Internet-decency law, which the high court considered too broad. Lawmakers crafted the second version more narrowly, hoping it would pass constitutional muster.

Mr. Olson told the justices that pornography flourishes on the Internet. "As long as [youngsters] can type and read, they will be able to find it, and they will find it by accident," he said.

Questioning from some justices, particularly Stephen Breyer and Anthony M. Kennedy, suggested that the case could be sent back to the appeals court for further review. The high court is expected to issue a decision sometime before middle of next year. (Ashcroft vs. ACLU)
 
Post 171!

I have no idea what this thread title means, but I will comment.

This bullshit law would make it so that any site that any one thinks is offensive to kids - porn, politics, health, etc., would have to ask for a credit card before it could be viewed. These sites would then have to keep this credit card and personal info on file and turn it over to police upon request.

This unconstitutional law has nothing to do with protecting children. It has everything to do with trying to force one group's religious views on all of the people in the country. You need only look at the sponsors and main supporters of this law, they are the Christian Coalition and it's splinter groups.

It's another attempt to overrule the first amendment by the same people (Ashcroft, Bush, etc.) who say that the 2nd amendment must never be touched in any way, ever. Hypocrites, liars, and corrupt unethical tyrants is what they are. I am not attacking the 2nd amendment, I'm saying that these lying crooks will argue that the 2nd amendment is untouchable, but they would happily ban any speech that doesn't praise their religion.

I just saw a story on Yahoo that says that the Bush administration is investigating the Victoria's Secret fashion show that was on TV because they believe it is illegal because Bush's people consider it "pornography". Underwear are harming our children now? What the hell are wrong with the people who would support this type of anti-freedom bullshit?

In my next post, I'll tell you what I really think! :)
 
Holy Shit Manu, you posted!!!! :D


*Cracks a beer for the celebration and anxiously awaits the next post* :D
 
Two in row!

Let me make one thing clear. I don't care if you are a Republican, a Democrat, a Libertarian, a Green, or one of Laurel's kittens. If you support oppressing free speech, then you are an idiot in my opinion.

I just wanted to make that clear because the title of this tread is strange and only mentions Republicans.

This law was written by and pushed through the Republican House and Senate, but it was signed by Democratic President Bill Clinton.

No one in the government is innocent. What is most frightening to me right now is that Bush and Ashcroft are the most hard core religious fanatics who've been in charge in this country in a long long time and they are going to do anything that they can to force you and me to live by the rules of their religion.

If you don't want to praise their religion in the way that they want you to, then they'd love to throw you in jail, and that's exactly what this unconstitutional law would allow them to do.

If the Supreme Court appeases Bush and passes this, you might finally see Laurel - on TV, during her trial. Why? Because she believe's in free speech. That's no exaggeration.
 
well, yeah -

I half expect that Ashcroft will shut this site down. He's also claiming the right to seize Green-card holders of long-standing, subject them to secret trials without attorneys on boats in other countries, and shoot those found guilty by a 2/3rds vote. Plus all he'd have to announce is the victim's name and date of death.

Oh, and eavesdropping on lawyers' conversations with their clients.

Kidnapping dozens of Israeli Jews and holding them as al-Qaeda suspects.

Ashcroft is the main reason I deleted all personal information about myself before departing. Notwithstanding Cheyenne's obsessive claims about my veracity, I could be identified from that stuff. Now I can't be.

Good luck to you and Laurel. Our rights are tottering. And don't expect the folks who frolic in your cyber garden of delights to stand up for you.
 
"Land of the Free" YEAH BLOODY RIGHT! I am just going to quote 3 Doors Down (before they get censored for being "unamerican") in saying: "You call this your free country, so tell me, why does it cost so much to live?"

You really have to wonder at the ways the United States goes about enforcing what they always scream that the country was built on.
Manu, good luck to you and Laurel, I will gladly sign any petition that keeps this place from closing down (and you two out of court).
 
Little ol' me in jail? Who'll feed the kitties? And will I have to wear one of those American Flag diapers like the one Larry Flynt wore to the Supreme Court in the 80s? ;)

Seriously though...I still have some faith that the Supreme Court will make the right decision on this so the rest of my life can be devoted to reading erotic stories, not withering away in a jail cell somewhere.

If there's any bright side to this, it does appear that we might be able to avoid the law by starting a non-profit corporation. Non-profits appear to be exempt from this specific law. The dark side is what law comes after this one. What Freedoms go next?
 
CelestialBody said:

Manu-did you catch that link?

I didn't see the link, but if you post it here I will read it. :)
 
Laurel said:
Little ol' me in jail? Who'll feed the kitties?

I'll do that if you like, since I'm pretty sure the rest of the board would be planning a jail break for you.
 
If the first amendment goes.....then you can definatly expect the rest to follow suit very shortly after.

Our right to bear arms, to free assembly, all that jazz would be gone just as fast, if that were to happen.

I personally like my freedom to go to a porn site, read erotic stories, and hell, even look at pics if I want, and say what ever the hell I feel like on its general board, or anywhere else for that matter. If that right was taken from me, shit........I might as well start hording my food and building a survival shelter here in the mountains.......
 
what's really sad is that they're using the terrorist stuff as a big smoke screen, something to draw everybody's attention elsewhere, leaving them free to take away the rights they see fit to deprive us of while nobody's looking.







don't worry, Laurel! if they do manage to get some bs charge to stick on you, we'll bust ya out of jail! then we can head up into the hills and lead a brand new sexual revolution!

viva la revolution!!
 
shadowsource said:
And don't expect the folks who frolic in your cyber garden of delights to stand up for you.

:rolleyes:

I am sure they don't expect it, which will make them pleasently suprised when many of us do.
So, Where do I list my adress and home phone?

What's next shadow? Are you going to high tail it to Kanukville so you won't be repressed?

Like the people of the US would take this up the ass and grin about it......

"Please Mr. PiusPenisInMyRumpus.... May I have another? I am sorry that I am infedelic pagan scum. Fuck my ear canal next please? More.. Please???"

Laurel, you can get alot done in a prison cell. Think of all the paper writing you could get in the mail from us.
Stacks and stacks of letters with hot fucking action, and erotic stimuli that I can't, myself, discribe.

How bout when we both get carted off, that KM will come in, guns blazing, and we can kill us some Prison Gaurd Pigs and free all of the other prisoners of conscience? That is my plan at least.
 
Where have you been? For the last twenty years every muthafuckin' politician has been fighting for the right to take yours away! (except Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell/Colorado)
Remember Tipper Gore? Banning offensive music? Frank Zappa had to testify along with others to keep those A-holes at bay. How about the drug search and seizure law?
It ain't always the republicans boyo, the democrats should be classified as socialists for the kind of shit they've pulled behind our backs. Frankly, I'm a libertarian anyway.
E-mail your reps/senators, I did already. I let them know just how I feel, also I e-mailed Bush at President@whitehouse.gov!
I see a fire, I try my damnest to put it out, do you? Or is this just another political party bash session with nothing suggested to fix something, or just bitch and whine like some cackling wenches.
:D
 
Lost Cause said:
Where have you been? For the last twenty years every muthafuckin' politician has been fighting for the right to take yours away! (except Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell/Colorado)
Remember Tipper Gore? Banning offensive music? Frank Zappa had to testify along with others to keep those A-holes at bay. How about the drug search and seizure law?
It ain't always the republicans boyo, the
democrats should be classified as socialists for the kind of shit they've pulled behind our backs. Frankly, I'm a libertarian anyway.
E-mail your reps/senators, I did already. I let them know just how I feel, also I e-mailed Bush at President@whitehouse.gov!
I see a fire, I try my damnest to put it out, do you? Or is this just another political party bash session with nothing suggested to fix something, or just bitch and whine like some cackling wenches.
:D
Actually, if you go by the definition, the present Democratic party is more accurately described as fascist. They are not advocating government or collective ownership of the means of production. What they advocate is the ludicrous idea of private ownership with central government control and decision making. At least the Republicans offer some pretense of respect for individual rights although their performance brings that into serious question.
 
Hey Bill

In regards to government control and decision making ala the SEC. Take a look at the Enron fiasco and tell me more about the noble and virtuous intentions of business men and their Republican shills. Methinks the SEC needs more teeth not less.


Don't worry about the kitties Laurel, Mr. Ashcroft will be glad to put them in a bag and toss them in the river. With a sly grin too I'll wager.

Can't have all that pussy running around corrupting this god fearing and virtuos country.

Hey Lost Cause...do you know anything about the Social Democrats or do you automatically equate socialism with Soviet style tyranny? Mcarthyism lives on. React without understanding.

Socialism and to a lesser degree communism are economic systems not political systems. Both can function perfectly well as as democracies. The Soviet system was a dictatorship from the word go. The people never had any control of the government or the economy.

Pay close attention to the teachings of Christ...my guess is he would be a socialist through and through. He did not care for or bother himself with the political systems of his time.
 
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HELLLLOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give me a fucking break!

I'm amazed how some people get their collective undies in a wad and suddenly proclaim "we are losing our rights" like it just started on 9/11. This crap has been going on for years, but in typical human fashion people don't get upset as long as its someone else's rights being violated. A large segment of our population favors violating the rights of others for their own gain, then re-elects politicians who keep their promises to them. It's a vicious cycle, and politicos are doing a bang up job growing their own voters.

Who is REALLY to blame for the erosion of our rights? Stop and think for a minute! What was the voter turnout last November? Worse, what is it in off-year Congressional elections?

Americans deserve whatever government they have.

"If you don'y like what you're getting, stop doing what you're doing!"
 
miles

true, true...

They will never stop Internet porn.

It's a freaking billion dollar a year industry that for a time literally fueled the growth of the internet. Take away the porn and all of a sudden you got 50 million bored and horny men and women roaming the streets.

Just where are they gonna put us all when they arrest us. We would just end up starting a strip poker game or an orgy.

Grandstanding...trying to blame the internet for poor parenting.

Actually...we could end all of this.

All Ashcroft needs is one good blowjob. Just one. To let him know what he has been missing. One where nothing is left on the dress.
 
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Here comes trouble!

Hi Bill! I was hoping your would show up so we could add a little gas to the fire! :)

I guarantee you, without any doubt, that George W. Bush is more of a threat to your freedom than Bill, Hillary, Al, and Jesse Jackson combined.

If a person would not support this type of anti-freedom (William Safire calls him "Want To Be Dictator Bush") behavior under Clinton, then the truth is that person shouldn't support it at all. Let's all take a look at what is actually right and what is wrong, not what lies are being told to fuel the propaganda machine.

George W. Bush says he is for less government, but he has expanded government's power more in 10 months than Clinton did in 8 years. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. The so-called Patriot Bill expands government's powers beyond anything Clinton even planned or proposed. Bush is not for less government, he is for more power for himself, and if lying to the public about his true intentions will help him get that power, then that is what he will do. That is the nature of politics and politicians.

You call Bush's saying one thing and doing another "some pretense" - I call it "lying" - they are one and the same. If he says one thing, knowing that he is going to do another, then he's lying.

Regardless of who the president is, I cannot believe that people are willing to stand by and watch their freedoms ripped away from them by any government. This is the most anti-freedom administration that I have seen in my entire lifetime and it is a bit frightening to see the lack of reaction from my fellow Americans on either side of the political fence.

On the bright side, I have seen some right wingers start questioning Bush over his power grab. This week, Arlen Specter, Bob Barr, and especially William Safire, have come out against Bush's megalomania, and I'm sure that more will soon follow. You can only push people, of either party affiliation, so far, before they start to wonder what the hell is going on.

Maybe eventually Democrats and Republicans can unite against the fundamentalist religious nuts like Ashcroft and his merry bunch of extremists. I'd much rather see honest Conservative and honest Liberals fighting it out for the good of the country, than watch these religious zealots trying to pretend to be one or the other just so they can sneak their anti American agenda into the White House.

If average middle of the road Democrats and average middle of the road Republicans, groups who tend to agree on more than they disagree on, don't start working together to fight against these attacks on our freedom, then we're all going to regret it later, and so will our kids.

Come on, Bill, just think of Bush as Richard Nixon, you as Bob Woodward, and me as Carl Bernstein. Give us a couple of years and you and I could turn this country back toward freedom! The only question is, who will play the part of Deep Throat? :) :)
 
LadyDarkFire said:
I am just going to quote 3 Doors Down (before they get censored for being "unamerican") in saying: "You call this your free country, so tell me, why does it cost so much to live?"

No, they'll be censored for sucking :D
 
One more quick point.

A couple of posters have suggested that some people might have "suddenly" found an interest in protecting freedom or individual rights. If they did, then more power to them and welcome to the team! If the comments were directed at me, I am proud to say that I have been involved in, and a part of, numerous social and political organizations for many years. Free speech has been something I have been fighting for, in one way or another, since I was just out of high school. For as long as I have been a working person, I have always donated a certain percentage of my income to non-profits, and often these are free speech, or other civil liberties related groups. The reason you are hearing more from me right now is because this is the worst attack on freedom I have seen in my lifetime and I'm curious as to why no one seems to care.

If it wasn't directed at me, then you have my apologies for the paranoia. :)
 
Manu

It wasn't directed at you at all. It was directed at the "oh, yeah" kiddies who have no sense of history or current events, haven't voted very much, if at all, and probably couldn't name their own states' US Senators.
 
Maybe Laurel will let Manu out to play with us more often!

Please? ;)
 
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