Suggestion Thread

[Safe_Bet]

Could we get rid of the Hangout? Sure, but why? As far as I can see two people, maybe three, are unhappy with it. Sara said four in her post, but I don't know who that is. I've heard either here or in pm from more than twice as many people, actually now three times that so far, who have not a single problem with what we're doing. And at this point even changing it back would still leave a few people grousing because "we're" the problem, me and Eve. Apparently we're as bad or worse than the Bush Adminstration. I'm sorry but that just makes me laugh. It's ridiculous. As far as I can see what needs to happen is that people need to calm down and write poetry. Or do whatever they do here.

There once was a chick named Angeline Cheney
Who liked to bend WickedEve Bush over her knee
Other people wanted to give them a whack
For trying a different tact
and are now acting like they invaded Kentucky!

Next time specify writing GOOD poetry!

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

There once was a chick named Angeline Cheney
Who liked to bend WickedEve Bush over her knee
Other people wanted to give them a whack
For trying a different tact
and are now acting like they invaded Kentucky!

Next time specify writing GOOD poetry!

That is bad and I'm not sure exactly who you're quoting.

 

[Angeline]

There once was a chick named Angeline Cheney
Who liked to bend WickedEve Bush over her knee
Other people wanted to give them a whack
For trying a different tact
and are now acting like they invaded Kentucky!

Next time specify writing GOOD poetry!

Ok, you cracked me up. Except the Cheney part. That just makes me shiver. In a bad way. But Eve is going to give me hell for spanking her.

I'm leaving in a bit to cook dinner and then I'm doing an online poetry reading. Wish me luck.

 

[WickedEve]

Could we get rid of the Hangout? Sure, but why? As far as I can see two people, maybe three, are unhappy with it. Sara said four in her post, but I don't know who that is. I've heard either here or in pm from more than twice as many people, actually now three times that so far, who have not a single problem with what we're doing. And at this point even changing it back would still leave a few people grousing because "we're" the problem, me and Eve. Apparently we're as bad or worse than the Bush Adminstration. I'm sorry but that just makes me laugh. It's ridiculous. As far as I can see what needs to happen is that people need to calm down and write poetry. Or do whatever they do here.

Bush Administration? That bad?

You know we've seen wars here before. We forget about them over time. We've had all sorts of characters pop up from time to time for days, weeks, or months and turmoil would follow. This group is just more organized, I suppose, and really delaying getting back to poetry. It is getting tiresome. So let's do what we normally do as mods and have being doing -- 5 years next month -- and writing poetry. I suggest that we all do. Those who have a problem know that it's perfectly fine to contact the owners. The mods answer to the kitty momma, Laurel.

 

[Safe_Bet]

That is bad and I'm not sure exactly who you're quoting.

And your BETTER version is???

I DARE you to write a limerick that has Eve tying up and spanking Ange using a Bush Administration theme! Come on Punkette! Or are you chicken? buck, buck buck...!

 

[WickedEve]

I DARE you to write a limerick that has Eve tying up and spanking Ange using a Bush Administration theme! Come on Punkette! Or are you chicken? buck, buck buck...![/COLOR]

Hugo is convinced that I have a thing for you.
Ever since my mom gave me the lesbian poetry book and movie for Christmas, he's been a little uptight and thinks I'm going to change teams, or whatever you call it. Men.
So... you like tall women?

 

[hmmnmm]

Personally I consider it nothing short of persecution, purposefully calculated, planned in secret underground shafts, laughing evilly all the while, that there is no sub-forum that is strictly and specifically set up for me and me alone, with my name emblazoned in great bold fonts. But I know why. Why and how come this is not so: to suppress me and my freedom to freely express myself in my own personally-marked separate sub-forum. But, what say have I? None. Zero. And what choices am I left? Two. Two choices. Two flavors. Two ports. Two. In one, are stern practitioners of serious poetry. In the other, is the heady aroma of openly pouting poontang and... and... temptations. But of course it would be so: in the middle. Of course. Tell me that wasn't intentional. Ha! Backed against a wall by the stern arm of poetry exercisers, the only place to flee is into a greatly gaped and slippery sleeve that is really the big poontang, where poor souls like me are mercilessly chased, where the only possible recourse is to do a self-flinging sort of move, as we go headfirst into the great gaping Poontang and never another post shall appear in any forum or any sub-forum. I dare those who wield the big sticks of decisions to deny any of this.

 

[Angeline]

And your BETTER version is???

I DARE you to write a limerick that has Eve tying up and spanking Ange using a Bush Administration theme! Come on Punkette! Or are you chicken? buck, buck buck...!

A chick named Angeline Cheney
Is freezing her butt off in Mainey
She dreams of her Eve,
The spankings she'd receive
as they toast Here's to Bush! (Lamey...)

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Did your Mom give it as actually being a *Lesbian* book or a poetry book ?

Hmmnmm's got Poontang on the brain

 

[Angeline]

Personally I consider it nothing short of persecution, purposefully calculated, planned in secret underground shafts, laughing evilly all the while, that there is no sub-forum that is strictly and specifically set up for me and me alone, with my name emblazoned in great bold fonts. But I know why. Why and how come this is not so: to suppress me and my freedom to freely express myself in my own personally-marked separate sub-forum. But, what say have I? None. Zero. And what choices am I left? Two. Two choices. Two flavors. Two ports. Two. In one, are stern practitioners of serious poetry. In the other, is the heady aroma of openly pouting poontang and... and... temptations. But of course it would be so: in the middle. Of course. Tell me that wasn't intentional. Ha! Backed against a wall by the stern arm of poetry exercisers, the only place to flee is into a greatly gaped and slippery sleeve that is really the big poontang, where poor souls like me are mercilessly chased, where the only possible recourse is to do a self-flinging sort of move, as we go headfirst into the great gaping Poontang and never another post shall appear in any forum or any sub-forum. I dare those who wield the big sticks of decisions to deny any of this.

I think there's a hot for teacher fantasy hiding in all this.

Ok, I am leaving to cook. Really, really, really.

 

[WickedEve]

Did your Mom give it as actually being a *Lesbian* book or a poetry book ?

My mom never likes the men in my life. Hated my ex-husband. Doesn't like Hugo. For Christmas she gave me a poetry book written by a lesbian, containing lesbian poetry. Some of the poems are good. And a movie about two lesbian lovers. One woman leaves her man to be with a woman. My mom is loads of fun. lol

 

[WickedEve]

A chick named Angeline Cheney
Is freezing her butt off in Mainey
She dreams of her Eve,
The spankings she'd receive
as they toast Here's to Bush! (Lamey...)

Now Hugo will think I have hot chick lovers all over the board. He's already insecure!!!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Aha you see where this is all leading and the significance of my question? (I hope someone does cos I'm losing track!)

 

[WickedEve]

Aha you see where this is all leading and the significance of my question? (I hope someone does cos I'm losing track!)

I'm lost!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I think I've still got some control of the situation (help!) so your Mom would rather you was with a woman than a man? yes/no? because no man is good enough? yes/no? (I feel like a female freud) soooooooo now we come to the crunch as to why ...... is this an issue in your Mom's life or has she got something about your choices which inadvertently could be the same thing if you get my drift . Feel free to tell me to belt up at any time as I waffle on! In fact I think I will belt up right now that will be $100 ..........next !

 

[Safe_Bet]

Hugo is convinced that I have a thing for you.
Ever since my mom gave me the lesbian poetry book and movie for Christmas, he's been a little uptight and thinks I'm going to change teams, or whatever you call it. Men.
So... you like tall women?

Uh Huh! With nice long thighs that a girl can really sink her teeth into (metaphorically speaking)! The problem is that Amy would prolly go all toppy on you and make you do disgusting things to her. I know you wouldn't like her being all dommy...

My mom never likes the men in my life. Hated my ex-husband. Doesn't like Hugo. For Christmas she gave me a poetry book written by a lesbian, containing lesbian poetry. Some of the poems are good. And a movie about two lesbian lovers. One woman leaves her man to be with a woman. My mom is loads of fun. lol

Remarkable woman, your mother. Send my best wishes and let her know that I mailed the check to her already...

Now Hugo will think I have hot chick lovers all over the board. He's already insecure!!!

He doesn't need to feel insecure about all of the hot, sexy chicks that want your body. Just cuz the sex will be better doesn't mean much... well, maybe he should be a littel insecure... actually, he might want to start panicking...

 

[WickedEve]

Just cuz the sex will be better doesn't mean much...

I will share this with him. It should be fun.

 

[WickedEve]

I think I've still got some control of the situation (help!) so your Mom would rather you was with a woman than a man? yes/no? because no man is good enough? yes/no? (I feel like a female freud) soooooooo now we come to the crunch as to why ...... is this an issue in your Mom's life or has she got something about your choices which inadvertently could be the same thing if you get my drift . Feel free to tell me to belt up at any time as I waffle on! In fact I think I will belt up right now that will be $100 ..........next !

belt up? waffle on? You're not American, are you?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[unpredictablebijou]

It's really too bad you couldn't be bothered to read all the way to the end of Sara's post, or to the end of my admittedly lengthy PM. There are some valuable ideas there, and you might have learned something. You probably won't manage to finish reading this one either, but maybe someone will. And maybe more people will realize exactly why a relatively large group has chosen to protest, and then leave when the protests are mocked and ignored.

Please, please, don't be fooled. Despite all the friendly chat, do not be fooled. I thought I was a friend of the mods too. I thought they actually gave a shit about me. Eve made it clear via PM that she will stand by her friends, no matter what, and that I was not counted among them. Angeline and "normal jean" are, however.

Picking sides and tailoring rules for friends is not the job of a moderator.

At the risk of getting this entire thread deleted (as has already happened twice in the past two weeks, when the mods embarrassed themselves and chosen to cover their tracks) I'll say that future readers might consider reading carefully through the arguments here. You'll find that one set of people is trying pretty hard to make coherent arguments, and the responses have ranged from irrational emotional appeals to abuse to mockery to dismissal to a vaguely fascist "just trust us". I'm going to petition the mods to leave their responses up unedited so that people can read more carefully. Maybe a few will realize what's actually going on, and why at least FIVE people have chosen to leave: me, Sara, Tzara, loststar, the Snood. Possibly more. Anyone who wants to find us should PM me with email information and you'll get mine in return.

This is serious. Despite the mockery and the illogic, there are some of us that take freedom of speech seriously enough to notice the BEGINNING of its downfall, not just the end.

Examples:

Eve gets drunk on new year's eve and posts that we're all a bunch of sanctimonious pricks. When I quote her post, she chooses to delete the entire thread.

The mods move a poetry thread, which qualifies in every way to be in the main area, into the Hangout. When I post in the thread, questioning the logic behind doing so, Eve and Ange spend the afternoon jumping my shit. I am told to go to hell. I am told to shut up. When it later becomes obvious that they are being abusive, they delete the entire thread.


"normal jean" spends a year and a half, on and off, posting the most abusive rhetoric imaginable about me personally. I am told to be quiet and ignore it. I am told she is a friend of Eve and Ange's and we should cut her some slack. Free speech is invoked. Their helplessness to "do anything about it" is invoked. Turns out they DO have the freedom to move and delete things, but they're unwilling to use it. Jean is allowed to continue her abuse, but no one is allowed to respond. When loststar posts an angry response, she's told she's out of line. I'm informed privately that jean is a friend and therefore they are going to tolerate her behavior, and maybe I should just take a break from the board if I'm getting injured by the abuse. There is clear favoritism here.

I have highly abusive PM's from Ange. I am not allowed to quote them. I have PM's from both Sara and Tzara detailing some pretty embarrassing history, now sadly confirmed by the way I'm being treated. Same ol' regime. I'm relatively new to it. They are not. And they have ceased to have any real desire to fight any more. Nothing will change.

We have sent PM's to Laurel. Nothing will change. We have laid out reasonable and cogent arguments to have at least one area that is UNMODERATED, at least in the way these mods see their roles. Nothing will change. We have asked that friends of abusers try to get them to stop doing it. Nothing will change. We have asked for the legitimate right to respond to and protest personal attacks and abuse. Nothing will change. We have asked for a functional dynamic, in which people are allowed to say what they want to say and RESPOND in whatever way they want. Normal jean is allowed to be abusive, but no one is allowed to speak up in protest. Either there is free speech here or there isn't.

Don't worry. A few people leaving won't really make any difference here. It'll all be basically the same, after a while. Nothing will change. We will be considered a bunch of overdramatic reactionaries. Really, it's all fine. They're just being dramatic. It's silly. Just trust us to do what's good for you.

If, in fact, you really believe in free speech, then I challenge you to leave this post intact.

bj

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Personally I consider it nothing short of persecution, purposefully calculated, planned in secret underground shafts, laughing evilly all the while, that there is no sub-forum that is strictly and specifically set up for me and me alone, with my name emblazoned in great bold fonts. But I know why. Why and how come this is not so: to suppress me and my freedom to freely express myself in my own personally-marked separate sub-forum. But, what say have I? None. Zero. And what choices am I left? Two. Two choices. Two flavors. Two ports. Two. In one, are stern practitioners of serious poetry. In the other, is the heady aroma of openly pouting poontang and... and... temptations. But of course it would be so: in the middle. Of course. Tell me that wasn't intentional. Ha! Backed against a wall by the stern arm of poetry exercisers, the only place to flee is into a greatly gaped and slippery sleeve that is really the big poontang, where poor souls like me are mercilessly chased, where the only possible recourse is to do a self-flinging sort of move, as we go headfirst into the great gaping Poontang and never another post shall appear in any forum or any sub-forum. I dare those who wield the big sticks of decisions to deny any of this.

OH, so YOU are the new BFW!
LMAO

 

[WickedEve]

unpredictablebijou
Please, please, don't be fooled. Despite all the friendly chat, do not be fooled. I thought I was a friend of the mods too. I thought they actually gave a shit about me. Eve made it clear via PM that she will stand by her friends, no matter what, and that I was not counted among them. Angeline and "normal jean" are, however.
Do you usually discuss other people's PMs in public?
Yes, I did tell you that you are not a friend of mine. I told you that I didn't know you very well at all. I'm not friends with people I don't know. I did mention something about being friendly to you. Being friendly on a forum doesn't always mean friendship, at least not to me. Yes, everyone knows that Ange is my friend. And Maria is someone I've known for years and she's a friend.

At the risk of getting this entire thread deleted (as has already happened twice in the past two weeks, when the mods embarrassed themselves and chosen to cover their tracks)
Which threads? Really, which ones? I split a thread about Being Whole with your Hole and moved the OP's post back to the main forum after PMing with him and left the rest of the comments in the hangout in a thread with the same name. Are you talking about that thread? I haven't deleted any threads.

Eve gets drunk on new year's eve and posts that we're all a bunch of sanctimonious pricks. When I quote her post, she chooses to delete the entire thread.
That thread was not deleted! It should still be in the hangout. You keep saying theads are deleted when they are not, unless the owner moved them and doubt she did.

The mods move a poetry thread, which qualifies in every way to be in the main area, into the Hangout. When I post in the thread, questioning the logic behind doing so, Eve and Ange spend the afternoon jumping my shit. I am told to go to hell. I am told to shut up. When it later becomes obvious that they are being abusive, they delete the entire thread.

Again, no thread was deleted, as far as I know.

"normal jean" spends a year and a half, on and off, posting the most abusive rhetoric imaginable about me personally. I am told to be quiet and ignore it. I am told she is a friend of Eve and Ange's and we should cut her some slack.
I never told you to cut her some slack. I didn't tell you to be quiet. I'm tired of trying to reason with you, when you're... I don't know what is wrong with you.


We have sent PM's to Laurel.
Finally and thankfully!

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Again, no thread was deleted, as far as I know.
]

No, my error. You're right. The abusive posts were deleted entirely. Not just edited. Deleted. Non-moderators have only the option of editing a post, as NJ often does, to contain something other than the original post. Only moderators can make an entire record of a post go away.

The thread remains intact, moved again into the main area. No explanation is forthcoming.

I'm done arguing, Eve. And no, I don't generally discuss PM's in public, as you well know. Or would if you had paid attention. But in this case, I'll make an exception.

It's not against the rules. Yet. And I think people deserve to know what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe they won't get hurt by the betrayal I have experienced, if they know your natures a little sooner than I did.

I won't sit and argue with you; this isn't a dialogue any more, if it ever was.


bj

 

[WickedEve]

No, my error. You're right. The abusive posts were deleted entirely. Not just edited. Deleted. Non-moderators have only the option of editing a post, as NJ often does, to contain something other than the original post. Only moderators can make an entire record of a post go away.

The thread remains intact, moved again into the main area. No explanation is forthcoming.

I'm done arguing, Eve. And no, I don't generally discuss PM's in public, as you well know. Or would if you had paid attention. But in this case, I'll make an exception.

It's not against the rules. Yet. And I think people deserve to know what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe they won't get hurt by the betrayal I have experienced, if they know your natures a little sooner than I did.

I won't sit and argue with you; this isn't a dialogue any more, if it ever was.


bj

I did not delete any thread or posts. Which threads and posts are you talking about and I will personally search for them. Again, I did not delete them.

bijou, you know I don't hide what I think or say. I've even PMed you with apologies in the past, even one where I confessed that I said something about you to someone else and that I was sorry. I'm always upfront. I do not like you. I do not dislike you. I just wish you would stop and post something poetic. Post in the bistro. Post a poem, a happy comment to your friends, something. Do it and get past this. I'm using your dirty 30 30 right now and loving it.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

One thing I am very clear on though is that both forums are for everyone. The Hangout is not a sanctuary for people who are pissed about the changes. Well, they can treat it that way if they want, but that's not its purpose. When we first made the change, I was told (and I know more than a few felt this way) that creating the Hangout was akin to segregating some of the poets (and to a lesser place). That wasn't true then and it isn't now. And if everyone isn't equally welcome in both places, that is segregation and I am definitely not down with that.

Okay, I'm guilty for using the Hangout as a sort of sanctuary, but not for that reason. There was just too much abuse in the PDF by two repeat offenders. I don't view the PDF as a safe place to learn poetry. I wish it was. I wish I could feel free to participate in challenges and so forth.

Oh, and your suggestion of putting the one who bothers me most on ignore is not a viable option. Believe it or not, I value his informative posts and personally, I liked the interaction of the "Companion to the 30 in 30" thread when I was participating in that challenge. Not only would all the posts he made disappear, the good with the bad, but also all the threads that the individual started. But, since the downright abusive posts of his get ignored by the mods, the Hangout is just safer. If I started a poetry thread in the Hangout and it got moved to PDF, I'd delete all the posts I made and ignore the thread. And, if I'm not mistaken, I think you're saying that's okay. That's my prerogative, right? It's just a shame it has to be that way.