Sucide

[Dantetier]

I posted this in my Livejournal in April... still fairly relevant. Thoughts? I know some of you (who perhaps have had someone they loved commit suicide) will be horribly offended about this, so don't read it. I'm warning you right now. If you read beyond this, you have no right to be pissed. this is only for those who have serious opinions, and no rantings.

Some of this no longer applies. Mostly the Money part, and sex. I like sex now *heeeh*





"Why is Suicide such a social taboo? If someone wants to end their life, who's business is it but their own? Granted, funerals and grief and such are terrible burdens to place upon ones family and friends, but that's part of the taboo. Perhaps it's simply rude to burden people with your death? What a sad, sad concept. Anyway. I was thinking about killing myself today. Maybe taking all the flexaril I have. It's a wonderful muscle relaxant. and they're tiny, tiny pills, and I have almost a full script, so it might do the job. Relax my heart enough to get it to stop beating. Who knows. No, I'm not going to kill myself. I was just thinking about it. But if it wasn't such a problem for everyone else, I'd probably do it. I'm so bored with life. I want to go back to school, but I don't have money. I want so many things, but I don't have money. Anyway, back to the reason for this post. I was at work... I was tired. I'm always tired. I love sleep. one of the reasons I think suicide shouldn't be so bad. I just want to sleep forever. I hate waking up. Sleep is the most sublime state of being.... and when you're dead, it's the same, I think. personal feelings and I don't feel like talking religion right now, my fingers would strangle me. And I realized.... there's very few things in life that I enjoy. Reading. I adore reading.... I wish books only came in series... and the next book in the series was available the instant I finsihed the previous one. I love Fantasy. I currently am waiting for the next book to come out in FIFTEEN different series. TV: I used to like TV.... it has it's high points now and then I suppose. mostly comedies. Movies. there's a lot of movies coming out that I want to see... Spider Man, Star Wars Epi. 2, the new Kid, Star Wars epi 3, the Two Towers and the Return of the King...blah blah blah. *shrugs* I WAS waiting for sex, which was supposed to be the greatest thing in the world, or so I thought. What a bloody letdown. I was almost ready to end it right there. "that's it? Later" *blam!* I wouldn't shoot myself. far too messy and painful. I just want to go to sleep and not wake up. Now, I know that my friends (as if anyone reads this dribble I call a livejournal) are going to say "Dante, we don't want you to die" Don't worry. I'm not going to, not by my own hand at least. That's just not my style. Although... if it weren't such a (I hate using repeat words, but I don't have a theasaurus [Rawr]} social taboo, I probably would. I need money, and I don't have the patience to sit through such a boring, boring life that is mine. ah well... "

 

[greybeard]

I think I can understand why someone might take there own life.......but I would never even come close myself......and that is because I honestly believe, no matter how bad things seem to be, they can and do get better...........and you seem to be another example of that..........but I understand how easy we can depress ourselves.................

greybeard

 

[Dantetier]

Yeah, I've come up... not as much as I Wish, but I have. And I still love sleep... I don't think I'd mind dying if I just went in my sleep. I'm not one to commit suicide. While I don't think Things WILL get better, it's all a matter of how hard you try. Suicide is just quitting..and I dont quit. It's part of my Honor.

I think I can understand why someone might take there own life.......but I would never even come close myself......and that is because I honestly believe, no matter how bad things seem to be, they can and do get better...........and you seem to be another example of that..........but I understand how easy we can depress ourselves.................

greybeard

 

[horny_giraffe]

Well, death doesn't seem like it would be much like sleeping. Sleeping is delicious--full of dreams and pleasant rest. Death, however, is nothingness.

When I had my first migraine back in '92 (which are fortunately very rare, for me) I found that one of the prodromic symptoms of the migraine was blindness in one of my eyes. Never having experience blindness before, I found myself trying to describe a unique experience to the doctor--an experience that was quite distinct from darkness, for example. In this sense, calling blindness a sort of darkness is a misnomer. One senses darkness, just as one senses quiet. A deaf or blind person, however, is unable to distinquish between the darkness and the light or between silence and sound.

In the same sense, I believe that death is more than the loss of consciousness--it is loss of the ability to distinguish between consciousness and unconsciousness and the loss of each and every physical sense.

I think that suicide is a social taboo because it (and it's threat) is essentially a highly selfish act. It hurts those who care about the potential suicide and it deprives society of the possible benefits of the suicide's life. When people I care about threaten suicide, I think it's apt to say that they are threatening to kill someone that I care for. It makes me angry at them--as I would be angry with anyone that threatened those that I care for.

 

[Olivianna]

I think that suicide is a social taboo because it (and it's threat) is essentially a highly selfish act. It hurts those who care about the potential suicide and it deprives society of the possible benefits of the suicide's life. When people I care about threaten suicide, I think it's apt to say that they are threatening to kill someone that I care for. It makes me angry at them--as I would be angry with anyone that threatened those that I care for.

I concur. Moreover, in many cultures (especially Judeo-Christian), the human life/consciousness is considered sacred, so the intentional snuffing out of that life through suicide is an act of sin against God and God's creations.

 

[Dantetier]

I would agree completely, except for that I very VERY Rarely remember my dreams, so my sleep is generally dreamless. I wouldn't mind a lack of consienceness. I would like just to go to sleep... and not wake up. As for the social taboo part.. If you're dead, why should you care what you leave behind? Honestly, you wont be around to feel bad about it..

People who threaten Suicide are stupid. if you REALLY mean to commit Suicide, you'd just do it. People who threaten Suicide are just looking for attention.

Well, death doesn't seem like it would be much like sleeping. Sleeping is delicious--full of dreams and pleasant rest. Death, however, is nothingness.

When I had my first migraine back in '92 (which are fortunately very rare, for me) I found that one of the prodromic symptoms of the migraine was blindness in one of my eyes. Never having experience blindness before, I found myself trying to describe a unique experience to the doctor--an experience that was quite distinct from darkness, for example. In this sense, calling blindness a sort of darkness is a misnomer. One senses darkness, just as one senses quiet. A deaf or blind person, however, is unable to distinquish between the darkness and the light or between silence and sound.

In the same sense, I believe that death is more than the loss of consciousness--it is loss of the ability to distinguish between consciousness and unconsciousness and the loss of each and every physical sense.

I think that suicide is a social taboo because it (and it's threat) is essentially a highly selfish act. It hurts those who care about the potential suicide and it deprives society of the possible benefits of the suicide's life. When people I care about threaten suicide, I think it's apt to say that they are threatening to kill someone that I care for. It makes me angry at them--as I would be angry with anyone that threatened those that I care for.

 

[Dantetier]

I had meant to keep the religious aspect out of it, but ti is inevitible. What if you do not believe in God? I don't. I don't believe in a soul, or anything after death. Life, to me, is simply the continuation of the chemical machine that is your body, and conciousness is simply the nerves of your brain acting in a certian way

I concur. Moreover, in many cultures (especially Judeo-Christian), the human life/consciousness is considered sacred, so the intentional snuffing out of that life through suicide is an act of sin against God and God's creations.

 

[Olivianna]

People who threaten Suicide are stupid. if you REALLY mean to commit Suicide, you'd just do it. People who threaten Suicide are just looking for attention.

Not all attention is bad, though. Sometimes suicidal people are very private and they do not dare tell another soul how they feel. These calls for attention are the clearest signs of calls for help.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I don't think "taboo" is the right word. Screwing your sister is a taboo. Killing your father isn't a taboo. The word "taboo" doesn't cover all repellent acts, and I don't think it covers suicide. It's too solitary an act to be "taboo". If you killed yourself while blowing a monkey, maybe.

Anyway, suicide is devestating on the family, on other members of the community, brings into question the competence of doctors and advisors and priests, has dogmatic moral implications for the soul, and places a burden on city services. Despite being a solitary act suicide's aftermath is a political, religious, emotional, and social mess, and I think that's an excellent reason for disliking it.

 

[Dantetier]

Not all attention is bad, though. Sometimes suicidal people are very private and they do not dare tell another soul how they feel. These calls for attention are the clearest signs of calls for help.

Those who don't tell people aren't threatening Suicide. People who say "I'm gonna Kill myself!" are threatening. People who keep it to themselves are more likely to actually do it..

 

[Olivianna]

I had meant to keep the religious aspect out of it, but ti is inevitible. What if you do not believe in God? I don't. I don't believe in a soul, or anything after death. Life, to me, is simply the continuation of the chemical machine that is your body, and conciousness is simply the nerves of your brain acting in a certian way

Well, yeah. I was just trying to understand why it is that suicide is considered taboo - even today. Even without belief in God/religion, our religious pasts (histories steeped in Judeo-Christian theology) still inform our secular present.

Viewing the body as an autonomous unit - an organism that just runs - is certainly another aspect of the situation. Like Horny Giraffe, though, I do agree then that we can view suicide within a socio-economic framework - that the act of suicide is selfish because indeed many of us are not isolated from other humans, but rather support and network with others both socially and economically.

 

[Dantetier]

I never meant to say that Suicide was anything other than a bad thing. It's an atrocious act, but to the person who commits it, It MAY be a release from the suffering they are going through.

I don't think "taboo" is the right word. Screwing your sister is a taboo. Killing your father isn't a taboo. The word "taboo" doesn't cover all repellent acts, and I don't think it covers suicide. It's too solitary an act to be "taboo". If you killed yourself while blowing a monkey, maybe.

Anyway, suicide is devestating on the family, on other members of the community, brings into question the competence of doctors and advisors and priests, has dogmatic moral implications for the soul, and places a burden on city services. Despite being a solitary act suicide's aftermath is a political, religious, emotional, and social mess, and I think that's an excellent reason for disliking it.

 

[Olivianna]

Those who don't tell people aren't threatening Suicide. People who say "I'm gonna Kill myself!" are threatening. People who keep it to themselves are more likely to actually do it..

Look, all I'm saying is that regardless of whether someone actually follows through on their "threats," these worsd can be viewed as genuine calls for help, not necessarily as just selfish attempts for attention. I am arguing that they don't need to be viewed as stupid (as you call them) just because they are drawing attention to the help that they need from others.

 

[Dantetier]

Look, all I'm saying is that regardless of whether someone actually follows through on their "threats," these worsd can be viewed as genuine calls for help, not necessarily as just selfish attempts for attention. I am arguing that they don't need to be viewed as stupid (as you call them) just because they are drawing attention to the help that they need from others.

Why can't people just say that they need help? Why is threatening Suicide all they know how to do when asking for help?

 

[Guest]

Those who don't tell people aren't threatening Suicide. People who say "I'm gonna Kill myself!" are threatening. People who keep it to themselves are more likely to actually do it..

That's what I was told when I was a volunteer for a teen problem/suicide line. But it's wrong. Some people say it to give people a warning and to blast out that last 'call for help'. Then when everyone sits there and says 'Oh, they aren't going to do it' you get a call at 6 am saying that they poured gasoline all over themselves and lit a match.

 

[perks]

Why can't people just say that they need help? Why is threatening Suicide all they know how to do when asking for help?

because they're stuck. If they saw another option, <which asking for help is>, then they would.

Suicide is the end of the line. That's the point.

Boredom, lack of money and good tv viewing, well I wouldn't call that the end of the line.

 

[Dantetier]

because they're stuck. If they saw another option, <which asking for help is>, then they would.

Suicide is the end of the line. That's the point.

Boredom, lack of money and good tv viewing, well I wouldn't call that the end of the line.

You trivialize my point, and completely missed it. I wasn't thinking of COMMITING suicide, just about it. And everyone has different thoughts on the subject, and what their limits are. Just because YOU don't think boredom and lack of money and good TV viewing is a reason for suicide, who's to say I don't? Kids in Japan Kill themselves if they can't get into a decent college. not something I'd kill myself for, but it's done.

 

[Darkthought]

I had meant to keep the religious aspect out of it, but ti is inevitible. What if you do not believe in God? I don't. I don't believe in a soul, or anything after death. Life, to me, is simply the continuation of the chemical machine that is your body, and conciousness is simply the nerves of your brain acting in a certian way

I used to work as a paramedic, and happened upon suicide attempts regularily. I'm not talking about the usual take 20 aspirin cry-for-attention attempts, I'm talking about the jump 8 stories and live attempts, or try to cut your head off with a readial arm saw attempts. Many of these people had outlooks on life like this. They had no real purpose for life, and saw life as a simply happening with no reason. Those that turned things around generally found something of purpose to life. I don't necessarily mean finding Christ or Judeism, etc., but generally they found some sort of spiritual meaning to existance, and were motivated by this meaning to make significant change in the life that had led them down a dead-end road. There were those as well that I never came in to contact with again, so never heard the stories, and those that, unfortunately, were successful the next time around. I don't believe it's not in ones power to change the shape of the world around them, no matter what the circumstances. The idea that it's not comes form the mindset of the culture of poverty. Breaking that mindset is tough, but it can be done.... I've seen it happen over and over.
I realize you've said your original post doesn't necessarily pertain to your life today, but I hope that you find things and purposes in your life that would never make you ponder the event again.
No one knows what life will bring for them in the future. The idea of snuffing out that potential, and the curiosity of how it will all play out, is unfathomable to me.

 

[greybeard]

Anyway, suicide is devestating on the family, on other members of the community, brings into question the competence of doctors and advisors and priests, has dogmatic moral implications for the soul, and places a burden on city services. Despite being a solitary act suicide's aftermath is a political, religious, emotional, and social mess, and I think that's an excellent reason for disliking it.

suicide, for those who are successful, may just be the most selfish thing a person can do...........I think being able to look beyond ourselves is what deters many from following through.....and that same outward look provides the hope and strength to not give up...................

greybeard

 

[BlueDaisy]

Dante, I've been there, to the point of leaving the house with a bottle of my allergy medicine (just one pill made me sleepy, so I figured the whole bottle would kill me softly, so to speak). I chickened out and drove to my best friend's house and from there help was given to me. I wound up in a psych hospital for 6 weeks. But....I had been severely depressed for months, "merely" depressed for years.

What kept me from actually doing it? Hell. You are not a believer, but I am. I was raised that if you commit suicide, you go to hell. Since that night, there have been times when I was sorely tempted to do it, but the hell thing always stopped me. Well, that and my kids and my mother. I figured that my husband and everyone else would be able to pick up the pieces.

All that said, I will add that talking/threatening about suicide is a cry for help. Why not just ask for the help? Because when you are as seriously depressed as I was, you can't. You are not thinking right when in that state. On top of that, I've always had trouble asking for help in the first place...for anything.

Oh...you like to sleep a lot. Do you have sleep apnea, by any chance? I found out 3.5 years ago that I do. If I'd been diagnosed back during my severly depressed years, maybe I'd have not been so depressed.

Blue

 

[Guest]

i just wanted to stick up for myself on this one....

I've threatened to commit suicide years ago as a way of getting attention....as a way to tell people a really needed help but now I say I'm going to commit suicide not because I want attention but because I feel that way. As long as I talk about doing it...I'll never do it. My mind is strange like that. I guess it's because I've always believed actions speak louder then words so....as long as I talk about it....I won't do it.

Hope that makes sense

 

[lovetoread]

I came very close to it last month.

Not as a way for attention, but to stop the pain. The horrible, deep down, there seems to be no other answer, type pain.

I didnt do it for no other reason than my kids.

I dont think its selfish, as long as no one is depending upon you.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

When I was younger, I went through a very suicidal part of my life.. every time I had the opportunity to commit violence to myself, I thought about it, and I became bullimic, and I began cutting, and sticking pins in my arms, and leaving them for hours or a day at a time. I have little scars on my arms for that. I remember taking a shitload of muscle relaxers... but my bullimia kicked in (and the realization that I was doing something selfish kicked in), and I puked it all up before it caused too much damage. It was after that point that the bullimia got worse, though.

I've counselled people away from suicide.. a girl I knew in high school stabbed herself to death, leaving an entire community mourning her.... she was a great girl, and no one saw it coming.. her mother found her in her room, blood everywhere.

Suicide, even if you don't believe in heaven or hell, is selfish. It is an act that considers the life of only one person, but gives no credit to the impact that it will have on those around that person. A friend of mine slit her wrists in high school, and her sister found her and got her to a hospital in time. When I saw Ruth's wrists when I visited her in the hospital, it hit me like a ton of bricks... she could have left us. And her mother and father were basket-cases, trying to figure out what they'd done.. they were in mental torture, and her sister was as well. All of Ruth's friends were scared and hurt, and we began to realize what each of us meant to each other. So in this case, it did something good.. but if she'd died.. she would have left a lot of broken people behind her...

I can't imagine hurting the people I love like that.

 

[Guest]

 

[perks]

You trivialize my point, and completely missed it. I wasn't thinking of COMMITING suicide, just about it. And everyone has different thoughts on the subject, and what their limits are. Just because YOU don't think boredom and lack of money and good TV viewing is a reason for suicide, who's to say I don't? Kids in Japan Kill themselves if they can't get into a decent college. not something I'd kill myself for, but it's done.

I understand your perspective, and did not miss it. I just don't agree with it, which is my perspective. And, I don't think anything about suicide, or thinking about it is trivial.

I think suicide is selfish. You get so low to the point that nothing matters but yourself. That's my perspective.

The reasons people put around being selfish are just icing.

The pain is too much for ME, the boredom is painful to ME, *I* have disappointed someone too much...

I've lost four friends to suicide, two of which were brothers. I've been affected by their choice, but none so much as their families, who are crushed, their mothers, god. Those women, once strong leaders in their community, are just shells of themselves.

I ache for them.