Subtle Things

[TheWritingGroup]

I'm wondering if I'm trying too hard, or if readers appreciate this stuff.

In Ending, Barbie, a former barista, is offered a selection of espresso drinks by her host, Corbie, also a former barista.

She has a macchiato, he has a double espresso.

The subtle part is this: Barbie (for reasons explained in the story) hasn't touched any coffee (or even any caffeinated beverage) for a couple of months. She deliberately orders a drink that's mostly milk, to ease back into it. Corbie is established to have a doppio every morning, at least.

Too subtle to even notice? Just for my own amusement? You make the call.

No, literally, make the call, because it's hard for me to judge.

--Annie

 

[MrPixel]

Too subtle for us old farts who drink coffee black, no sweetener. Puts hair on your chest.

OTOH, while coffee shops and baristas figure prominently in my stories, the infinite variants - alluded to in a WIP - I personally know very little of the details of each.

 

[crookedletter]

I would never notice that particular example, because when I drink coffee I just drink coffee, and I'm more or less illiterate when it comes to the wide range of coffee-adjacent beverages people are into.

But if I did know the difference, and I did notice that, I would appreciate that attention to detail. It wouldn't break immersion or raise eyebrows if their drinks were less appropriate to their characters and circumstances (I wouldn't notice that either), but when those sorts of things fit together it can be very satisfying for close readers.

 

[MillieDynamite]

If you're doing it to highlight your research, too much. If you're doing it as a nod and a wink, just right. If it plays a part in the story, it's fine. When someone remarks on it, we go back to just right or too much, depending on the comment.

 

[StillStunned]

Too subtle to even notice? Just for my own amusement? You make the call.

Not your own amusement, I'd say, but to fit your own picture of the characters. If the readers pick up on it, great. If not, at least they're not stumbling over an inconsistency.

 

[NaughteeDragon]

If you’re doing it just to show off, don’t.
However, the fact that it is deliberate character choices designed add depth in small examples is cool. I wouldn’t notice that detail because I dislike coffee. People who are serious about their coffee will think “nice touch.”
I do a lot of these types of things. For example, I have a character that emigrated from England refer to her husband’s cock as “John Thomas.” I had stumbled across it years earlier. When my beta reader asked about it, I had to go look it up because he was unfamiliar with the phrase. One night I spent half an hour trying to find out how a Mexican girl would refer to her asshole since she doesn’t like to use “dirty” American words. She also does it because it turns her wife on.
I also do a lot of research for seemingly insignificant details because I don’t want to get them wrong if someone does know. Improperly referring to the March Madness tournaments as “The National Playoffs” would surely have gotten me roasted. (Thank you beta reader for not letting me look stupid.)

 

[PennyThompson]

Too subtle for me, but I'm never not drinking coffee so the thought of easing into the caffeine did not register with me

But it's also an unobtrusive detail that doesn't cause any accidental friction, so if only one person in a thousand notices it, I think it's worth it!

I put a small technical detail in Accessibility Compliance that I thought was noteworthy about two characters, and only one person has ever mentioned it. But I was exceptionally pleased that one person caught it

 

[NotWise]

My stories have a ton of details in them that most readers won't notice. I don't expect them to. They're there for my own amusement.

I see no problem with your example. It requires the reader to know that a macchiato is low on caffeine. A lot of older readers won't know that. A lot of younger readers will. If someone doesn't know, then there's no problem unless it is somehow important later in the story.

 

[Britva415]

The subtle part is this: Barbie (for reasons explained in the story) hasn't touched any coffee (or even any caffeinated beverage) for a couple of months. She deliberately orders a drink that's mostly milk, to ease back into it. Corbie is established to have a doppio every morning, at least.

How subtle is it that she's electing to resume caffeine at all?

If it were obvious, then I would probably appreciate her choice of macchiato.

If the very fact that she's breaking abstinence is the subtle part, then, I'm not sure the macchiato choice would stand out to me. Maybe?

 

[Britva415]

Another way I see this is, mapped on to the Chekhov's Gun idea which I frequently find myself referring to:

Does the choice of macchiato have a consequence in the story? Almost certainly not. However: It's on the other end of Chekhov's Gun. It IS a consequence. Of something else in the story.

With that in mind, it's great to include it. So what if it's the product of research? I'm not even saying it is, idk. My point is, I would never call this an example of "showing off." It fits and it's justified and it's only too subtle if the macchiato itself will have story consequences and everybody misses it.

 

[alohadave]

My latest story had the MC get shot and it was just a flesh wound. I didn't phrase it like that, but @Djmac1031 caught it.

If no one else gets it, it doesn't affect enjoying the story. If they do, it's a bonus.

 

[Rob_Royale]

What the heck is a doppio?

 

[Areala-chan]

What the heck is a doppio?

A double-shot of Espresso (ie: a lot of caffeine in a very small serving).

 

[caleb35]

I'm wondering if I'm trying too hard, or if readers appreciate this stuff.

In Ending, Barbie, a former barista, is offered a selection of espresso drinks by her host, Corbie, also a former barista.

She has a macchiato, he has a double espresso.

The subtle part is this: Barbie (for reasons explained in the story) hasn't touched any coffee (or even any caffeinated beverage) for a couple of months. She deliberately orders a drink that's mostly milk, to ease back into it. Corbie is established to have a doppio every morning, at least.

Too subtle to even notice? Just for my own amusement? You make the call.

No, literally, make the call, because it's hard for me to judge.

--Annie

It's a tad subtle and I don't know if I myself would've picked up on it as a reader. But so what. You can be subtle as much as you like. The better question is, do you want your readers to pick up on it? Or are you happy just letting them get it on their own (or not get it, as the case may be with some)?

 

[Areala-chan]

I'm wondering if I'm trying too hard, or if readers appreciate this stuff.

Neither. You're doing it just right: to the readers who don't catch it, you're just describing people ordering drinks.

To the ones who do catch it, you're leaving them an Easter egg of sorts, a little grin that says, "Congratulations, you're in on the gag!".

I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

I'd say it's perfect. It's not random, there is intentionality, and adds a layer that rewards a re-read.

As others have said, there will be readers who won't get it, and that's fine, because you are still adding details and richness to the world. And the very few who get it, you've just given them a delightful surprise, and they will remember this little bit.

And speaking personally, I love leaving little easter eggs or nuances. It brings me joy as a writer, because it allows me to show the world through my own eyes. In your particular case, someone else might have described how they held their cups instead, because that's the little detail they notice. It shows not just what is happening in the world, but how the author's eyes perceive it.

 

[MrHereWriting]

I'm wondering if I'm trying too hard, or if readers appreciate this stuff.

In Ending, Barbie, a former barista, is offered a selection of espresso drinks by her host, Corbie, also a former barista.

She has a macchiato, he has a double espresso.

The subtle part is this: Barbie (for reasons explained in the story) hasn't touched any coffee (or even any caffeinated beverage) for a couple of months. She deliberately orders a drink that's mostly milk, to ease back into it. Corbie is established to have a doppio every morning, at least.

Too subtle to even notice? Just for my own amusement? You make the call.

No, literally, make the call, because it's hard for me to judge.

--Annie

Doesn't matter, unless it's important to the story, in which case you better make a reference to it earlier in the story because depending on every single reader being a coffee enthusiast is assuming too much.

But, these kinds of esoteric details tend to help the writer write a better story, so there's no reason not to continue using them. Remember, these details aren't easter eggs, they're tools that help to make your world make sense.

 

[ronde]

Some details like this are fine. Just don't overdo it or it might look like you're trying to impress the reader with your own knowledge.

Having a character make a choice between things is a good way to tell the reader about the character versus writing it all out in text. For instance, there's a vast difference between a woman who always orders a glass of white wine versus a woman who always orders a shot of Jack Daniels, no ice. There's a vast difference between a man who always orders a veggiburger and a tofu salad versus a man who always orders a rib eye steak with a loaded baked potato.

You can use selection to describe the personality of your characters, and that personality will, or should, be reflected in how they act and speak.

Yes, they're sort of stereotypes, but a stereotype can replace a lot of words, and guess what? Each reader will form his or her own impression of the character.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

What the heck is a doppio?

It's another subtle thing. In earlier chapters, Corbie (original surname: Leone) only uses Italian coffee vocabulary. He has a very non-Italian name because he changed it, and learned to make espresso in Potenza.

None of that (besides Potenza) will probably ever be known to readers (who don't read this topic), but I create more background for characters than they strictly need.

--Annie

 

[dirk2024]

No, literally, make the call, because it's hard for me to judge.

--Annie

I did it in my last story, in several different places. It was entertaining for me as I was researching different things and I enjoyed inserting them into the story. I didn't get any comments on it, so either they were too subtle for people to pick up, or too obvious to be viewed as worthwhile details.

Either way, I still felt like it was worth if for my writing process. So go for it!

 

[THBGato]

Put it in. As @StillStunned said, who gives a damn if readers notice or not: you'll know, and if it makes you happy, keep it.

I have a hundred, if not two, moments like that in my stories. Knowing I went to that level of detail and subtlety helped me get over my imposter syndrome in my first year here.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Some details like this are fine. Just don't overdo it or it might look like you're trying to impress the reader with your own knowledge.

Having a character make a choice between things is a good way to tell the reader about the character versus writing it all out in text. For instance, there's a vast difference between a woman who always orders a glass of white wine versus a woman who always orders a shot of Jack Daniels, no ice. There's a vast difference between a man who always orders a veggiburger and a tofu salad versus a man who always orders a rib eye steak with a loaded baked potato.

I think sometimes you should go towards overdoing it. There's a difference between a character who always orders white wine versus one who always orders bourbon, but there's also a difference still to a character who's the kind of person who'd sit down and order Bruichladdich Classic Laddie, two fingers, and be surprised when they have to settle for Oban 14.

If I ever do a sequel to Plugged In, there's almost certainly going to be a French press coffee-making scene with hand-ground beans, because that's the kind of thing that Daniel would care a lot about at home in his own kitchen, and he'd want to make the perfect cup of morning-after coffee for Katherine. Would I ever put that level of detail into coffee in Dafydd and Emily's story? Nah. Neither of 'em care. I think he's got a twelve-cup Mr. Coffee machine and she's got access to someone else's Keurig, and the only concession either one makes to coffee-craft is that she once read that unbleached filters make a better cup than bleached ones.

Put it in. As @StillStunned said, who gives a damn if readers notice or not: you'll know, and if it makes you happy, keep it.

I have a hundred, if not two, moments like that in my stories. Knowing I went to that level of detail and subtlety helped me get over my imposter syndrome in my first year here.

Plus it's fun. That part's important too.

 

[nice90sguy]

I'd immediately pick up that neither of them are Italian.
A "caffe macchiato" in Italy is a just as strong an an espresso; it's an espresso with a dash ("macchiato" means "stained") of hot or cold milk, and "doppio" is pretty rare -- the standard coffee shot is usually strong enough that it doesn't need doubling up.

So I'd infer they're American.

The way people drink their coffee (or tea) is very cultural, more so than personal, I think.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

... the only concession either one makes to coffee-craft is that she once read that unbleached filters make a better cup than bleached ones.

James Hoffman just said yesterday (meaning I watched his video yesterday) that bleached ones are (in 2025) superior.

--Annie