Subs NEED, Doms ??????

[NCShin]

I often see mention of a sub who needs to submit, or needs to be bound, or needs to be flogged. What I don't see is the other side of the need coin.

Does a Dom NEED to tie a submissive up? or to flog her?

I wonder if it's just not politically correct to say that a dom "needs" to tie, flog, or dominate.

I mean this especially for male doms, fem subs, but I think it applies to both genders.

 

[Mistress Tae]

I often see mention of a sub who needs to submit, or needs to be bound, or needs to be flogged. What I don't see is the other side of the need coin.

Does a Dom NEED to tie a submissive up? or to flog her?

I wonder if it's just not politically correct to say that a dom "needs" to tie, flog, or dominate.

I mean this especially for male doms, fem subs, but I think it applies to both genders.

This is an interesting question. My first thought was no, I don't need to dominate him, I want to dominate him. And while that will hold mostly true, there is that part of me that does need to tie him up, need to flog him, need to challenge myself in the day to day matters of our lives. But the need is not as strong in me as the want...the desire...I don't know, maybe they are one in the same.

This makes me think back to our first conversations about entering this lifestyle. I asked him at the time why he wanted this and his reply was, "I need it, I need to submit to you completely." It was very apparent by his words just how strong that need was, just how compelling. When he asked me the same question, my response was much the same, but over time my needs have turned more to wants.

I will have to think on this more....my thoughts are not very coherent right now......

 

[entitled]

Just a couple of grouchy cents worth, but imho the subs that say they need these things really need to get a grip on reality.

I am a submissive person. That's just what comes naturally to me. It does not mean that I need to be abused to feel good, or that I need to be controlled. It really helps sometimes, but it is not an actual physical or mental necessity. It never has been.

Each and every person should be able to more or less take care of his/herself in a fairly independent manner. If they can't, they really have no business indulging in the lifestyle. They won't be able to make good decisions about relationships, limits, etc. and will end up causing somebody to be injured. Having certain things as absolute "needs" or necessities is very much a deterrent to being able to take care of themselves.

Maybe the Dom/mes know this and are able to admit to themselves that these things are NOT actual needs. They are wants. Maybe that's why you don't hear them saying that they are needs. They simply know better.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I often see mention of a sub who needs to submit, or needs to be bound, or needs to be flogged. What I don't see is the other side of the need coin.

Does a Dom NEED to tie a submissive up? or to flog her?

I wonder if it's just not politically correct to say that a dom "needs" to tie, flog, or dominate.

I mean this especially for male doms, fem subs, but I think it applies to both genders.

I have to think about this more. I thought I had a response but on second thought...

 

[Mistress Tae]

Just a couple of grouchy cents worth, but imho the subs that say they need these things really need to get a grip on reality.

I am a submissive person. That's just what comes naturally to me. It does not mean that I need to be abused to feel good, or that I need to be controlled. It really helps sometimes, but it is not an actual physical or mental necessity. It never has been.

Each and every person should be able to more or less take care of his/herself in a fairly independent manner. If they can't, they really have no business indulging in the lifestyle. They won't be able to make good decisions about relationships, limits, etc. and will end up causing somebody to be injured. Having certain things as absolute "needs" or necessities is very much a deterrent to being able to take care of themselves.

Maybe the Dom/mes know this and are able to admit to themselves that these things are NOT actual needs. They are wants. Maybe that's why you don't hear them saying that they are needs. They simply know better.

Very true, and very good points. Neither he nor I view this need as an absolute, a need to exclude anything else. Nor do I think he needs it to make him feel good. He is a very strong man, very confident within himself and that will never change.....neither of us has the desire for that to ever change.

Perhaps it's that "need" can be so subjective and those involved in the lifestyle must take a very objective look at their needs, wants and desires. I know that we do, I know that he does within himself, and I know that I certainly do at every moment, and at every new experience we have. His need or mine are not there at the expense of all else, but at the enhancement of all else....

...eh, still not coherent, but I think you can get my point

 

[redelicious]

Hmmm

I have no idea how to answer this. There are different degrees of need, and maybe that is part of the answer. Here is an interesting thread on Maslow's Hierarchy that ran earlier in the year:

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184526&highlight=maslow

 

[NightForce]

I need to have D/s as a Lifestyle.

I have strong interests that I want to share with a sub. I would have to give it more thought as to whether I would qualify it as a need.

 

[A Desert Rose]

It's a need for me. I am wired as a submissive and that is what I need in my life. If I can't submit then I feel like something is missing for me. When it goes on for too long, I begin to get frustrated and angry.

Being spanked or whipped is not a need for me, per se. Although it sure does heighten the fun and all.

For me, it's all about being able to submit. Submitting for fun works in the short term. But there is always an empty place inside. Deep down I know that it's not real, that it is all play and not taken seriously by the play partner and therefore, the need is not truly met.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Have to say in this household, the Dominant one very much has a need and voices it. It is not rare for him to walk in after a day at work, grab my hand and lead me up the stairs in a hurry with the words 'I need to give you pain, now'' . Has nothing to do with punishment or displeasure, is just his sadistic nature that needs it's regular fix, sometimes more than others. The reason it works so well for us is I have a corresponding need as a masochist for intense pain and torture, and submission to his needs. We both find we become unbearable to be around if there is not this regular pain play, and it is permissable for me to voice my needs if or when I have a similar craving and desire.

My submissive needs, particularly pain, were recognised long ago and the reason I pursued this lifestyle. My first taste just highlighted what I needed and was a memorable realisation it had been the thing I had felt was always missing but was unable to put my finger on. From that moment I decided I was not interested in going through a series of relationships similar to my years of vanilla dating, and set out to look for the one who could specifically answer my craving as I could his, who could and would offer a love bond for life, and who shared a lifebase from which we could grow. I was lucky and found my bliss with Master.

http://www.smilies4you.de/content/sonstige/b24.gifCatalina http://www.smilies4you.de/content/liebe/b18.gif

 

[Mr Blonde]

Ah, redelicious remembers that old thread. LOL

The Maslow hierarchy might be flawed but it provides a conceptual starting point for needs/wants. You can see some dom/dommes rated in the 3-4's and others were in the 7-8's. There is also variation between the submissive posters.

The point? psiberzerker pointed out the differences between D/s needs and S/M needs. Those are echoed in the post made in this thread by catalina_francisco. I think that matches the anecdotal comments seen in this forum and it is my model for BDSM "needs".

 

[Netzach]

I find myself becoming a very unlpleasant and irritable person in a relationship, and I find myself beginning to lose confidence in myself when I'm not playing periodically.

Whether that's a sign of mental imbalance or not, I really don't care. There's a simple way to keep me on track, happy and adjusted, and that's to be sure I play periodically, so why not?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Just a couple of grouchy cents worth, but imho the subs that say they need these things really need to get a grip on reality.

I am a submissive person. That's just what comes naturally to me. It does not mean that I need to be abused to feel good, or that I need to be controlled. It really helps sometimes, but it is not an actual physical or mental necessity. It never has been.

Each and every person should be able to more or less take care of his/herself in a fairly independent manner. If they can't, they really have no business indulging in the lifestyle. They won't be able to make good decisions about relationships, limits, etc. and will end up causing somebody to be injured. Having certain things as absolute "needs" or necessities is very much a deterrent to being able to take care of themselves.

Maybe the Dom/mes know this and are able to admit to themselves that these things are NOT actual needs. They are wants. Maybe that's why you don't hear them saying that they are needs. They simply know better.

Can't say I agree with your slant on this, at least not for either of us. We both recognise and admit openly to our respective need to engage in S/M and D/s behaviour on a 24/7 basis. Neither of us think of it as abuse and feel that comes under non consensual behaviour. Neither of us has ever or will knowingly engage in practices which are uncontrollable to the point of being guaranteed dangerous, and both of us have a good history of SSC being our guiding point.

If we were out of control because we recognised a need and that subsequently meant we could not control our impulses, both of us would have been in prison and/or hospital long ago. Recognising and acknowledging needs to me is a good step in the direction of 'being able to care for yourself' . For instance I could have begun on a path of one relationship after another, taking risks, trying to find what I needed, going from one Dominant to the next. For me I had already wasted too many years in vanilla relationships which had not met my needs to spend another 20 years or so floundering again. I made a conscious decision about what I recognised as needs, one being a need to submit once only and treasure that moment as singular instead of one of many in a succession of relationships....is just how I am.

I then began a search which was always aimed at submitting to one and only one person in the true sense of the word. I was fortunate, and made it my mission, which meant I found that one and am now living my dream and having my needs met in a caring and safe environment with someone who has the corresponding need and a deep love he shares with me for life.

As you can see having absolute needs and recognising them is not a deterrent to being able to care for oneself, or a reason to not be in the lifestyle. In fact I see it as taking responsibility and ensuring you are not a victim of chance. Master has led a solitary life successfully before our meeting, just as I had raised two children alone, paid a mortgage, gone back to education, begun and succeeded in a new career, and been cited as one of the most independent people many met, all before meeting him. We now use those individual life skills to complement the relationship the same as we used our independent choice to find the relationship which would bring us the happiness we now have.

Catalina

 

[Desdemona]

entitled, you are entitled to your opinion, however, I disagree.

I have a VERY firm grip on reality. I need to submit and I need to engage in D/s play on a regular basis. I get grouchy, anxious, irritable and moody when that itch isn't scratched. That doesn't mean I don't take care of myself. It doesn't mean I'm not a capable, strong woman. It's just one aspect of who I am. Getting those needs met is one way I take care of myself.

 

[Kajira Callista]

If its the only way of life that makes you feel normal and makes you stronger and more able to deal with the every day world...if it helps you focus and keeps you on top of stuff in your life and without it you feel like you are drowning...would that be a need?

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I don't qualify as either

Submissive or Dominant, I am a switch. However, if I don't get to indulge in bondage, floggings, stroppings, BDSM type things, I feel at a loss. Until recently, I had 2 pets. They gave me the release I needed for my Dominant side but I was off balance because I did not have anyone to give me those same things.

Then there is the fact of my masochism. Part of me needs, relishes, craves the pain that occurs from a flogging, strapping, or whatever else a clever Sadist can think up to cause me pain. There is no other way to describe it...if i don't get it I am at a loss, confused, achey and grumpy.

So, yeah for me..on every side I can think of...these things are a need. They keep me sane, they make me happy.

pet

 

[A Desert Rose]

If its the only way of life that makes you feel normal and makes you stronger and more able to deal with the every day world...if it helps you focus and keeps you on top of stuff in your life and without it you feel like you are drowning...would that be a need?

Yes.

Submission is a need for me to be happy... I think for you to be, too. When that need is not met, especially over prolonged periods, it becomes unpleasant for me.

There are short term fixes (play with friends etc.) but they never really fulfill that need, or craving or whatever someone else wants to call it. There always remains an emptiness. At least this is how I feel. Maybe no one else feels like this... I don't know.

 

[Desdemona]

Yes.

Submission is a need for me to be happy... I think for you to be, too. When that need is not met, especially over prolonged periods, it becomes unpleasant for me.

There are short term fixes (play with friends etc.) but they never really fulfill that need, or craving or whatever someone else wants to call it. There always remains an emptiness. At least this is how I feel. Maybe no one else feels like this... I don't know.

I feel like that, babe. You described it well.

 

[WriterDom]

For me, it's the same kind of need as sex. And sex with a vanilla only leaves me about half satisfied. It's my nature to be very sexual. I was asked once if I would play with this person without any sexual involvement. To me, that would be like being very hungry, and grilling a steak for someone else to eat. There would have to be a 3rd available to satisfy that need.

 

[D's mariposa]

Yes, submission is a need for me, and being with a dominant personality who was not into bdsm or sm or anything didn't work for me.

The sweet guy that I dated before I met D was a cop. He was a very stong sweet guy, very much in control, but his dominant characteristics were complete unconsious. He didn't have a clue about conscience dominance. And while I was somewhat submissive in my relationship with him. I was not consciously submissive to him. I felt there was a hole in the relationship, something was missing. I had an urge that I didn't fully understand, and it frustrated the hell out of me.

About the time I realised that I was really a subbie type of person, the cop and I broke up. (Amicably, we're still pretty much friends.) Then I got involved in the bdsm community and met D. D requires conscience submission and it suits my needs as well. And yes, he needs my submission, too.

 

[Quint]

Just a couple of grouchy cents worth, but imho the subs that say they need these things really need to get a grip on reality.

I am a submissive person. That's just what comes naturally to me. It does not mean that I need to be abused to feel good, or that I need to be controlled. It really helps sometimes, but it is not an actual physical or mental necessity. It never has been.

I also disagree with this. Let's play with the word "need" for a minute. If we're talking basic survival, no, I do not need D/s. I would be able to continue living were I not in a D/s relationship. I could also live with a partner who was my intellectual inferior, ugly, abusive, and a cat-hater. I would not want to live that way, just as I would not want to live with a vanilla partner, but I could if for whatever reason I had no alternative. It's not air. So I guess when I'm talking about "need," I am talking about "that which makes survival enjoyable."

Each and every person should be able to more or less take care of his/herself in a fairly independent manner. If they can't, they really have no business indulging in the lifestyle. They won't be able to make good decisions about relationships, limits, etc. and will end up causing somebody to be injured. Having certain things as absolute "needs" or necessities is very much a deterrent to being able to take care of themselves.

How d'you figure?

As I said before, I choose to be in a relationship with a partner that fulfills certain basic prerequisites. Does that make me less independent? I think quite the opposite. That's self-awareness and responsibility. On what premise does "I enjoy service and floggings" become "I am unable to take care of myself"? Or even "I will not make decisions of this nature without consulting my dominant"? There is the possibility of a loss in responsibility with statements of the latter nature, but not necessarily---nor would it necessarily be a bad thing if the submissive did lose responsibility in those situations! That's what power exchange is based upon. Assuming the people involved are of a reasonable intelligence, I think your fears are unfounded.

Maybe the Dom/mes know this and are able to admit to themselves that these things are NOT actual needs. They are wants. Maybe that's why you don't hear them saying that they are needs. They simply know better.

If you're putting so much faith in the superior intelligence of Dom/mes (cough cough), why do you assume they will lead their submissives down a path of irresponsibility and bad relationship decisions? It takes two to make a relationship work or fail.

But essentially I think the entire disagreement is based upon the definition of "need." I think it's not a black-or-white term. Needing something in order to survive is not the same as needing something in order to be happy. And needing something in order to be happy does not, in my opinion, necessarily lead to loss of judgment or control.

 

[Netzach]

Hijack

Pet's avs just get yummier and yummier.

Meow.


Ahem, oh yes.

Essentially, one needs to thrive not only survive. I need work so I don't starve.

Well, sure. And fuck that. I need *fulfilling* work so I don't jump out the window.

I can settle for ok sex. Or not. I can have the sex life I want. I can make things happen. I'm entitled to orgasms, fantasies, swinging from the chandeliers and legions of adoring admirers.

Putting needs at the most basic level is something I think people....women especially, hate to say it....have been encouraged to do throughout long and grim centuries.

Fuck needs. Dreams and wants are fine, too.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Re: Hijack

Pet's avs just get yummier and yummier.

Meow.


Fuck needs. Dreams and wants are fine, too.

You know...that final statement put a smile on my face. The fact is I try not to differentiate between needing and wanting. It is a combination of things, always will be. I haven't the faintest clue when it comes to what makes something a *need*..at least by other people's standards. For me...I NEED to Dominate and to be Dominated. I feel like if I would not be complete without those aspects...it must be a need. And that is basically what I see from other's here...no matter HOW they classify it...

(Ohhhh Netzach, You know I am still stalking You...don't say things like that bout my av's...makes me wanna put somethin new up...just for You!!)

 

[tropix]

Obviously, this is just an added view and not meant to be a generalisation....

Touched on a few times here, & probably best said by WriterDom- I think it's a basic sexual need, taken to a higher level. When vanilla becomes boring, routine, not quite satisfying.... stepping into a 'kink'- be it D/S or whatever- expands the excitment and intensity.

Not a pleasant analogy, but you see what I mean-- kind of like the drug addict who moves to a stronger poison in search of a greater high-- we seek a greater thrill.

Over time, the 'want' becomes a 'need.'

 

[Krinaia]

Sorry to all those whose posts I skimmed over to come down and put up my own post (i promise to go back and read them)...


After the first handful of posts I was suddenly reminded of one of the most important vanilla relationships in my life over the past four years...

My senior year of high school, I became very closely bonded with a girl I will call A. Best friends. And when we left for college 1,000 miles away.... well by the second year it was obvious she had the "perfect" college life - lots of social interaction to balance the studying ... whereas I was leading the polar opposite - a lifestyle devoid enough of social interaction as to be dangerous. Two and a half years later, and surviving two major battles - our friendship finally disintegrated. And one of the things that made me angry with her and that annoyed her about me...

I told her I had "needed" our friendship more than she had. She said she'd wanted our friendship. But the problem had been, I'd been neglected and insulted every time I reached out. I stood up and wouldn't take it anymore. Hence the needing versus wanting arguement. She told me that she was independent and self-sufficent and that was part of growing up. she didn't need me, but she wanted me. To me, it was obvious that if she had wanted me - she wouldn't have neglected me. to me, if she had truly grown up - she would have realized that her actions would effect those she loves and if she wants to keep them happy, and content in her relationship with her - sometimes she'd have to reach out to them. You can be as self-sufficent as you want, and you can be very lonely that way.

But it made me angry because I HAD needed her friendship - but only just as much as I WANTED her friendship. I had few friends - having little time to devote to building such relationships but I also loved her, loved her as much or more than many members of my family.

I think that you can want and need a thing equally but if it doesn't make you content to have it - then something has to give. And if having it doesn't make you content either - then something has to give. For me, it, ultimately was the friendship. It was easier to let go before she and I hated each other then to continue hurting each other. Sad, but true. I both needed and wanted her but it didn't do me any good because she didn't need me and didn't or wouldn't show me that she wanted me.

 

[sabersedge]

I am a Dom.

I need D/s in my life.