Subs and Emotional Age - Sincere Discussion for UCE

[SexyChele]

This is probably the topic for an entirely new thread, but what in the world gave you the idea that submissives are adults or can ever be treated as such? My research, which has been extensive, informs me that every strong submissive (ie a submissive who feels their sexual orientation and desire to obey strongly) is _emotionally_ (not physically and not psychologically) a child. Emotional age varies from infancy up until about the age of 11 or 12 and most submissives (women at least, my remarks do not extend to men whom I have not studied to any extent) have an age range of three to six years iwhich they move forward and backward in, depending on what's going on in their internal lives. More submissives become arrested at the lower ages than at the upper ages of childhood.

I know that this ground-breaking and little-known idea is going to be percieved as controversial by many people, but that, I believe, is simply because it is new and because it runs counter to the overall bdsm cultural mythology which is very supportive (in quite the self-serving way) of that horrible destructive creature which makes its home and hunting grounds the bdsm social world, the Selfish-Child-Playing-At-Dominance.

The reasons for the emotional arrestment of submissives in childhood are utterly fascinating but I'll discuss them at a later date. Believe me now, however, that those reasons do indeed exist, they are verified by numerous observations, and that they have absolutely _nothing_, not. a. fucking. thing., to do with childhood abuse.

UCE

Okay, I realize that I am probably on ignore, but I am hoping that possibly I might get a response on this thread by UCE. Simply an answer will suffice, and hopfully a discussion can develop.

This is in no way a flame, a war, a criticism, or anything else negative. This is an honest inquiry regarding the above quote, taken from the thread "Preferred Forms of Punishment". I can only hope it is received as such.

My first question would be regarding the first statement, which I believe is meant to be a rhetorical question. Though, I admit, I could be wrong. In what context is "adult" used? Is this meant to imply that submissives cannot be treated as adults emotionally? Is the implication that submissives are not capable of handling and dealing with issues that would be relative to adults?

I suppose it all boils down to, what is meant by "adult", specifically in this statement/question. Maybe that is the missing clue for me to understanding this sentence. Example: I am a submissive. Right now, I am caring for my mother who was diagnosed with breast cancer and who has recently undergone a bi-lateral mastectomy. (Both breasts removed) She has opted for reconstruction. I am an only child, and my father died 11 years ago. She is completely dependent on me to care for her wounds, empty/measure the output of her drains, make decisions as to whether a situation needs to be brought to the attention of her physicians, and speak/ask questions of her doctors regarding her care and healing. If I were not able to think and act as an adult, I would never be able to accomplish this task. And I know that I am not alone in this. I know there are other submissives who have dealt with situations that challenged their lives and in which they had to assume an active and, dare I say, dominant role. So, I can only assume that the term "adult" would not pertain to this aspect of a submissive's life. Am I correct in assuming that?

My second point for clarification is the point made that "every strong submissive is _emotionally_ a child". I know for me, and I think for others, the point here is that this statement is preceded with the comment, "My research, which has been extensive...." Now, obviously, this point was realized as being a bit of a "feather-ruffler", hence the statement, "I know that this ground-breaking and little-known idea is going to be percieved as controversial by many people...." Okay, so my questions would be as follows. What is the basis of research? It is claimed to be extensive. I can accept that if I can be told how extensive it was. Also, in subsequent posts, references were made that statements such as these were referring to a specific lifestyle within BDSM. Am I wrong in that conclusion? And if it is a specific lifestyle within BDSM, what type of lifestyle is it? I know that can be a rather broad-reaching question, so allow me to try to pin it down: part time D/s, full time D/s - no Master/slave, TPE Master/slave with limits, TPE Master/slave without limits. If I've missed one, please let me know.

Also, the phrase at the very end of the second paragraph confuses me. It states, "the Selfish-Child-Playing-At-Dominance". I realize that I have taken this off the end of a sentence, but I figure since I included the entire quote, folks can read the complete sentence for themselves. Is this phrase referring to a submissive attempting to top her dominant? Or does this refer to a Dominant? I'm tempted to think that it relates to a man or woman who is playing at being a Dom/me, but who has not yet learned (indeed, if that was their intention at all) the ways of being a true Dom/me. Would you mind clarifying that issue, please? I'm just uncertain as to which way you meant it.

Again, I would like to state that my intention is not to flame. I was interested when I first read this quote, and I still am. I cannot speak for anyone who might respond to this thread. Just as I have freedom of speech here, so does everyone else.

But, it is my sincere hope that my initial post be taken seriously, as that was its intent.

 

[~Dream~]

Chele..

Good Luck with this thread and with your inquiry ,I hope she does indeed answer also as I'd like to learn more myself .. thanks..
~Dream~

 

[MissTaken]

Unfortunately, I have not been watching that thread as I am not a proponent or someone who enjoys "punishment."

I am quoting your post, Chele, in order that Uce may take a look. Sometimes, the people I have on "ignore" have something that I should read and wouldnt' know to without someone else quoting them.

I am interested in this topic though, very interested.

I will read the thread and respond later.

Best wishes all.
MIss T

Okay, I realize that I am probably on ignore, but I am hoping that possibly I might get a response on this thread by UCE. Simply an answer will suffice, and hopfully a discussion can develop.

This is in no way a flame, a war, a criticism, or anything else negative. This is an honest inquiry regarding the above quote, taken from the thread "Preferred Forms of Punishment". I can only hope it is received as such.

My first question would be regarding the first statement, which I believe is meant to be a rhetorical question. Though, I admit, I could be wrong. In what context is "adult" used? Is this meant to imply that submissives cannot be treated as adults emotionally? Is the implication that submissives are not capable of handling and dealing with issues that would be relative to adults?

I suppose it all boils down to, what is meant by "adult", specifically in this statement/question. Maybe that is the missing clue for me to understanding this sentence. Example: I am a submissive. Right now, I am caring for my mother who was diagnosed with breast cancer and who has recently undergone a bi-lateral mastectomy. (Both breasts removed) She has opted for reconstruction. I am an only child, and my father died 11 years ago. She is completely dependent on me to care for her wounds, empty/measure the output of her drains, make decisions as to whether a situation needs to be brought to the attention of her physicians, and speak/ask questions of her doctors regarding her care and healing. If I were not able to think and act as an adult, I would never be able to accomplish this task. And I know that I am not alone in this. I know there are other submissives who have dealt with situations that challenged their lives and in which they had to assume an active and, dare I say, dominant role. So, I can only assume that the term "adult" would not pertain to this aspect of a submissive's life. Am I correct in assuming that?

My second point for clarification is the point made that "every strong submissive is _emotionally_ a child". I know for me, and I think for others, the point here is that this statement is preceded with the comment, "My research, which has been extensive...." Now, obviously, this point was realized as being a bit of a "feather-ruffler", hence the statement, "I know that this ground-breaking and little-known idea is going to be percieved as controversial by many people...." Okay, so my questions would be as follows. What is the basis of research? It is claimed to be extensive. I can accept that if I can be told how extensive it was. Also, in subsequent posts, references were made that statements such as these were referring to a specific lifestyle within BDSM. Am I wrong in that conclusion? And if it is a specific lifestyle within BDSM, what type of lifestyle is it? I know that can be a rather broad-reaching question, so allow me to try to pin it down: part time D/s, full time D/s - no Master/slave, TPE Master/slave with limits, TPE Master/slave without limits. If I've missed one, please let me know.

Also, the phrase at the very end of the second paragraph confuses me. It states, "the Selfish-Child-Playing-At-Dominance". I realize that I have taken this off the end of a sentence, but I figure since I included the entire quote, folks can read the complete sentence for themselves. Is this phrase referring to a submissive attempting to top her dominant? Or does this refer to a Dominant? I'm tempted to think that it relates to a man or woman who is playing at being a Dom/me, but who has not yet learned (indeed, if that was their intention at all) the ways of being a true Dom/me. Would you mind clarifying that issue, please? I'm just uncertain as to which way you meant it.

Again, I would like to state that my intention is not to flame. I was interested when I first read this quote, and I still am. I cannot speak for anyone who might respond to this thread. Just as I have freedom of speech here, so does everyone else.

But, it is my sincere hope that my initial post be taken seriously, as that was its intent.

 

[Grvdigger]

Chele, I am glad you took this up. My gem had read uce's post and told Me about it. It seems that it is another general statement trying to be the one all and cover all. I have a 3 and a 6 yr old and I know some subs that act just like them in many things they do. But others are more mature than some ppl called Doms. My gem is a very mature person, she does not act like a child. Children do not take responseabilty for their actions, she does. She knows how to deal with her prblms and how to react to them. Is there a time when she is burdened and needs support, yes, but that can be said for all of us. I have also seen alot of subs here at the bb's and many other places that are very mature. Some run help centers for the abused and others offer their services in many ways.

If this is not what was meant when making that statement then I must have misread, but you can not put all submissives under one blanket and say you must be or not be like this or you are not really a sub.

 

[cellis]

Chele...

Thank you for bringing this topic up. I had meant to ask those same questions. As a person who knows something about scientific research methods, I am concerned that someone would make those kinds of claims and not back it up with citations for the research.

So I guess, just for my own curiosity, my questions is where can I find out more about your research UCE? I am truly interested in finding out more.

 

[Pure]

Hi SC and UCE and all,


Speaking of a certain class of subs, UCE said (in part):

Emotional age varies from infancy up until about the age of 11 or 12//

That said, one needs a reference standard. If you watch behavior, esp. men's at such 'events' as traffic accidents or being left by their partner (provoking murderous rage), you can see about the same pattern. In short, there are a lot of 'emotionally arrested' people out there, some quite dangerous.

I think you might agree with this, UCE, since you mention a kind of Dom which is a 'selfish child'. Iow, the emotional range of many
self-labelled doms may not be any different. Agreed?

PS. for SC. Since the issue, as you yourself say, is 'emotional' age, the ability to be rational and predictable, in say, caring for your sick mom, it not really to the point at issue, though I admire that strength. Consider, however, a man who's an accountant by day, and good one; then a few years into marriage, his wife wants to leave and he 'flips' and almost beats her to death. We can say, can't we, that he's rational and responsible in one area, not linked much to emotion, but 'arrested' in a key area, perhaps at almost an infantile level.

 

[zipman]

Hi SC and UCE and all,


Speaking of a certain class of subs, UCE said (in part):

Emotional age varies from infancy up until about the age of 11 or 12//

That said, one needs a reference standard. If you watch behavior, esp. men's at such 'events' as traffic accidents or being left by their partner (provoking murderous rage), you can see about the same pattern. In short, there are a lot of 'emotionally arrested' people out there, some quite dangerous.

I think you might agree with this, UCE, since you mention a kind of Dom which is a 'selfish child'. Iow, the emotional range of many
self-labelled doms may not be any different. Agreed?

I tend to be careful before attributing characteristics to an entire group.

Are there subs that are emotionally immature - Yes.
Are there Dom/mes that are emotionally immature - Yes
Are there women that are emotionally immature - Yes
Are there men that are emotionally immature - Yes

Anyone picking up on a pattern here? Trying to attribute characteristics to a broad group never seems to hold up upon closer scrutiny. For every one that fits the pattern there is another who doesn't.

 

[cellis]

I tend to be careful before attributing characteristics to an entire group.

Are there subs that are emotionally immature - Yes.
Are there Dom/mes that are emotionally immature - Yes
Are there women that are emotionally immature - Yes
Are there men that are emotionally immature - Yes

Anyone picking up on a pattern here? Trying to attribute characteristics to a broad group never seems to hold up upon closer scrutiny. For every one that fits the pattern there is another who doesn't.

Well said Zip... it does take all kinds to make the world go round.

One just needs to becareful about making generalizations... I collect data for a living and I could infer an overall opinion based on the people I speak with, but that does not make it a consensus. All of the data collected must be looked at as a whole.

That is why I asked for the research and where it was done. It makes a difference if this is one person's opinion based on the people they have crossed paths with over the course of time or if it is a reliable study conducted with many people over the course of time.

 

[Lancecastor]

There is also a school of thought which suggests that in order for someone to be a bona fide submissive in the BDSM sense that they must first be a very strong individual...for, the theory goes, it takes more self knowledge than the average person normally possesses to consciously and freely submit to a consensual power exchange.

While UCE's anecdotal observations are provokative, interesting and have some merit in terms of the way that a fairly complex topic and lifestyle decision can be easily misunderstood, I suggest that UCE's profile be taken into consideration as well in reading her posts. UCE feels most comfortable when being provokative, shocking and outside the mainstream. Which is fine, taken in perspective.

My view is that D/s is interesting stuff and that each consensual power exchange is, by its very nature, unique.

To suggest that UCE is "right" or "wrong" is of no more value than commenting on Zip's generalizations about generalizations or to challenge Shele's inappropriate injection of too much information about her mother's illness and convalesence into the discussion as a way to "prove" she's an adult or garner atention for being ignored...something she needn't do, at least with me.

People is people and each of us has our own point of view.

I happen to find UCE needlessly graphic and her style better suited to the other sites she mentions, along with those the arrested devlopment kids on the GB are coming from.

But that doesn't reduce her validity; and besides, she might have a point...my anecdotal observations have also yielded lots of het women who claim to be "true submissives" who couldn't be more wrong about themselves...in my limited one-person opinion.

I hope UCE takes the time to drop some of the shock value and engage in some more direct discussion...and hopefully in less than 2500 words per post... so I'll be tempted to read them.


Lance

 

[~Dream~]

you can not put all submissives under one blanket and say you must be or not be like this or you are not really a sub. [/B]

________________

HERE!! Here!! I could NOT have said that ANY better myself GD ty so very much!!

 

[UCE]

To anyone who is interested:

Chele is on ignore for a special reason. I am convinced that nothing good for anybody can come from interacting with her or with people influenced by her. Secondary reason: she is, in my observation, a compulsive liar and a very clever one, at that. For those of you who do not know the difference, this is not namecalling, this is providing you with reasons why I am not going to take the bait so sweetly offered by someone who has already shown me clearly what a monster she is.

I'm sorry for all of you who are curious about this subject, but I percieve this thread starter as this is simply an attempt to engage me in something very destructive, once again. This sort of ploy, starting a thread with one's name in it and then stating an clearly and obviously reasonable question has been used online on me and on others many times. Maybe for the rest of you it's brand new, but for me it's a old, old trick. Finally, I always try always to learn from my first mistake, and my first encounter with Chele taught me an enormous amount, some of which I have stated here.

To the rest of you, all I can say is, "look for the book." I'm not saying I can get published, but if I can find a way to get the information well know, I will IF it's something I and my master determine needs to be published more broadly (and I am still undecided even about that).

It's an awful shame Chele had to do this because it places me in an impossible position. If I had agreed to engage here her (this was a call to war, whether you all can see it or not) she would have fought me with lies and twisting my words into things I never said. I don't fight that way, I have scruples, and I would have been at a terrible disadvantage. You may not think she would have done that, but I do know people, and I am especially familiar with all of the online varieties. But, of course, by not engaging her, she wins also because she can now "prove" to you all that "clearly" there was nothing behind my initial statements and and I am full of it. LOL!

Do you see how unfortunate this is? Had virtually anybody else asked me about this topic, just on their own, I may have answered. But she has done what she's done, and ruined it for everybody. I'm very sorry....for us all. This would have been an interesting topic to explore. I don't expect, by the way, for any of you to agree with my views on Chele. Just remember, if you can, that when I say things that seem very odd to you, it may be because I am talking from a pool of experience that you have --at lesat in this case--been lucky enough not to fall into yet.

As you can all see, by starting a thread with my name in it, Chele has achieved another nefarious goal. She has turned me into an object, something to be talked about in the third person as if she had no human feelings to respond to all this unwarrented hatred, as Lancastor has done. What is most hurtful about this sort of talk is that people like Lancaster (and Chele, before him, in another thread) see behavior from me that does not make sense to them and then invent spurrious motivations for it, AS IF THEY COULD READ MY MIND. I have no desire to be shocking or provakative--ever. The ideas I speak about are old, familar ones to me that I have thought a lot about and are very comfortable. I thought that some other would be interested in them too. That is why I posted them. But no, Lancastor can read my mind and see into my heart and HE KNOWS that I old write what I write for shock value. Ask yourselves: how would you like it if someone else made such horribly dishonst, lying claims about your motivations? This man, along with a few others here, has a clear agenda: to discredit whatever I may say that is of substance. Why does he wish to do this? Normally, people don't scapegoat someone in this way, don't lie and claim to know their "evil" motivations as lancastor has done with me, unless they are terribly threatened by what I am saying.

This is really sad, IMO. But it has happened to nearly everybody I've seen who tells the simple truth in a public venue such as this. You need to understand that this "community" has a huge stake in keeping the status quo just as it is. It works for them very well. I am simply talking about ideas and opinions that are new. There is a good reason for why my simply stating my own opinions here has caused such a hysterical uproar among the regular posters and inspired lies such as Lancastor's.

Does anybody else find it amazing that a simple submissive in an absolute power exchange talking about the truths as she knows them should have so quickly inspired such hatred and such desire to tell any kind of lies about her they can get away with by regular posters such as Lancastor's? In a genuinely free and open-minded community where new ideas were considered with gravity for their actual worth instead of defensively and hysterically screamed at, do you think this sort of horrible attack against someone saying something new and different from what you were used to could happen?

Folks, I'm going to continue to do what I've always done in my short time here: put the people who are simply out to hurt me on ignore and say what I want to say when I want to say it (usually it is when I think it could help some of the vast readership). And that include anybdoy who reposts these hateful individuals' messages in their own posts. Misstaken, I don't believe you inteded what you did with the juvinille venom that usually accompanys such a stunt but it DOES show me that you do not respect my desire for privacy from people who have deeply hurt me. Please do not repost anything of chele's in your messages again (or Lancastors' as of now) or I will be forced to see you as as hating of me as these other two are, since you are clearly aiding them and not respecting at all of my desire not to hear their words, and put you on ingore, as well.

I hope that the regular posters, such as Chele, can find it in them to understand that Ignore means Ingore and I do it for very good personal reasons and not lightly and stop trying to engage me in these juvinile, hurtful games.

Sadly,
Unda

 

[SexyChele]

I am quoting your post, Chele, in order that Uce may take a look. Sometimes, the people I have on "ignore" have something that I should read and wouldnt' know to without someone else quoting them.

MIss T

Thank you, MissT - as always, you are a true lady and a class act.

PS. for SC. Since the issue, as you yourself say, is 'emotional' age, the ability to be rational and predictable, in say, caring for your sick mom, it not really to the point at issue, though I admire that strength. Consider, however, a man who's an accountant by day, and good one; then a few years into marriage, his wife wants to leave and he 'flips' and almost beats her to death. We can say, can't we, that he's rational and responsible in one area, not linked much to emotion, but 'arrested' in a key area, perhaps at almost an infantile level.

I would agree with you at a certain level with this example, Pure. And I can see where you are going with your example. However, while that particular person's emotional "age" might be "arrested", it would be erroneous to conclude that all accountants have the same disposition. That is the issue I'm attempting to get clarification on.

To suggest that UCE is "right" or "wrong" is of no more value than commenting on Zip's generalizations about generalizations or to challenge Shele's inappropriate injection of too much information about her mother's illness and convalesence into the discussion as a way to "prove" she's an adult or garner atention for being ignored...something she needn't do, at least with me.


Lance

Oh Lance. *sigh* What I'm trying to do here is not say that UCE is "right" or "wrong". I simply do not have the facts to do that, unless or until she chooses to disclose information to us.

And I apologize if you felt that mentioning my mother's illness was too much for you to read about. I was not trying to "prove I'm an adult". (Know that I am) Nor was I "attempting to garner attention for being ignored", as I've never mentioned this on this forum before yesterday. Besides, have I been ignored? It's hard to know when one can only drop in infrequently.

To all others, thank you for your responses. I had wondered if I was alone in this.

 

[Richard49]

I know that this ground-breaking and little-known idea is going to be percieved as controversial by many people, but that, I believe, is simply because it is new and because it runs counter to the overall bdsm cultural mythology which is very supportive (in quite the self-serving way) of that horrible destructive creature which makes its home and hunting grounds the bdsm social world, the Selfish-Child-Playing-At-Dominance.


UCE

I have read many of UCE's post lately and find this whole one far from what I have understood her to be........

However I had to respond to this part .....

Show me a Dom that Selfish-Child-Playing-At-Dominance and I will show you an abuser not a Dom

OK
Back to the couch with me

 

[SexyChele]

Okay, I'm merely posting this for the record. I find it mildly amusing that UCE became upset with Zipman for supposedly accusing her that her intentions were less than honorable, and she has now done the same with me. This thread was begun in direct answer to UCE's request that if anyone wanted to know more about this topic, they needed to do so in an adult manner. I attempted to do just that. Now, my intentions have been brought in question, I've been accused of being a liar without telling one lie on this forum, and I'm also a "monster". (Just in time for Halloween, perhaps?)

My only true sadness in this is that Miss T, who, I believe, was only attempting to garner discussion, has now ended up being disliked as well. For that, I am truly sorry.

 

[Richard49]

My only true sadness in this is that Miss T, who, I believe, was only attempting to garner discussion, has now ended up being disliked as well. For that, I am truly sorry.

I like Miss T

but I like everyone .....

 

[UCE]

I like Miss T

but I like everyone .....

I like Ms T. too, Richard. Very much. I implied that very thing in my message before someone twisted my words around to mean something else (that's called putting words in my mouth and motivations in my heart that were never there). I like her too, quite obviously as my earlier message implied, and I think she made an honestt mistake or I would have put her on ignore instantly. I did say, however, that if she did it again, now that she knows how I feel about this sort of thing, I would consider it as a sign that she preferred to disregard my need for privacy.

Isn't it amazing how one can write something with the best of intentions and kind feelings and yet, with a few lying twists, somebody else can turn it into its total opposite?

 

[UCE]

Richard, how can you like everybody? What about people who hurt you?

 

[zipman]

Isn't it amazing how one can write something with the best of intentions and kind feelings and yet, with a few lying twists, somebody else can turn it into its total opposite?

Yes, indeed! Ahhh...the proverbial shoe on the other foot.

 

[Richard49]

Richard, how can you like everybody? What about people who hurt you?

While I even like my recent X wife......
Yes she hurt me badly
broke my trust
(not the first time in our 13 years
just the first time with the lifestyle)

How do I do it ........ ??????

I rememeber that no matter what happens I play a role in it

As those who have read my posts here on lit know
I am a recopverying drug addict ..... no I did not go to the street corner and buy recreational drugs ..... I took drugs the Drs gave me and took them the way they told me too ...

Why do I repeat this here and now?

Two reasons ..... first no one could ever hurt me more then those Drs did/have ... yet I see them often .. not for my care ... I have gone totally herbal ..... and when I see them I ask God to be in there lives .......

Second reason is that my addiction took me to the tables of NA where I have been given many tools to deal with tlife on lifes terms ......

Sometimes I "react" to people and the things they say and do
When I realize I have done this .... I immediately attempt to make ammeds ..... part of ammeds for me is to correct my behavor

I served 13 months in a little place called Viet Nam in 1968 - 69
I left many things behind but took at lest one thing (positive) home with me ...............

The knowledge that in the unoiversal scheme of things
I am as important as anyone else .... but no more important

back to the couch for me
My house is such a disaster I can not begin to "fix" it today

 

[UCE]

Thank you for dredging all that back up for me. It helped me. I wish you the best of luck with your house!

 

[MasterKensbeany]

Thank you Richard

Thank you Richard for your beautiful post. It brightened my morning.

Respectfully
beany

While I even like my recent X wife......Yes she hurt me badly
broke my trust
(not the first time in our 13 years
just the first time with the lifestyle)

How do I do it ........ ??????

I rememeber that no matter what happens I play a role in it

As those who have read my posts here on lit know
I am a recopverying drug addict ..... no I did not go to the street corner and buy recreational drugs ..... I took drugs the Drs gave me and took them the way they told me too ...

Why do I repeat this here and now?

Two reasons ..... first no one could ever hurt me more then those Drs did/have ... yet I see them often .. not for my care ... I have gone totally herbal ..... and when I see them I ask God to be in there lives .......

Second reason is that my addiction took me to the tables of NA where I have been given many tools to deal with tlife on lifes terms ......

Sometimes I "react" to people and the things they say and do
When I realize I have done this .... I immediately attempt to make ammeds ..... part of ammeds for me is to correct my behavor

I served 13 months in a little place called Viet Nam in 1968 - 69
I left many things behind but took at lest one thing (positive) home with me ...............

The knowledge that in the unoiversal scheme of things
I am as important as anyone else .... but no more important

back to the couch for me
My house is such a disaster I can not begin to "fix" it today

 

[zipman]

Re: Thank you Richard

Thank you Richard for your beautiful post. It brightened my morning.

Respectfully
beany

Ditto! Reading your posts Richard, always leave me thinking two things:

1) Damn that was a great post

2) I wish he would post more often

Good to see you back!

 

[~Dream~]

Re;Unda

<snip>
This is really sad, IMO. But it has happened to nearly everybody I've seen who tells the simple truth in a public venue such as this. You need to understand that this "community" has a huge stake in keeping the status quo just as it is. It works for them very well. I am simply talking about ideas and opinions that are new. There is a good reason for why my simply stating my own opinions here has caused such a hysterical uproar among the regular posters and inspired lies.....

Does anybody else find it amazing that a simple submissive in an absolute power exchange talking about the truths as she knows them should have so quickly inspired such hatred and such desire to tell any kind of lies about her they can get away with by regular posters ....

_______________________________________
All I can say to Anyone is this , KEEP on speaking the TRUTH ,the Truth shall set us ALL free,and Love is MUCH stronger than Hate ..
Sorry you seem hurt Unda,really.

 

[UCE]

Re: Re;Unda

TRUTH ,the Truth shall set us ALL free,and Love is MUCH stronger than Hate ..
Sorry you seem hurt Unda,really.

Thank you, kiddo. BIG . I am hurting. I clearly don't have your strength of spirt or philosophical outlook to shore me up. Richard's post helped me a lot this morning. Did you read it? Full of good, important stuff!

About truth: Truth may very well set us all free but during the process of doing so, it certainly begets some horrific firestorms and hatreds. But that's the nature of truth: it's a dangerous, two edged sword.

On another subject, do please post some of your "cute slave women" porn sources as links in another thread. I would love to explore them! I will post a couple of my own as well, that I especially like.

Regards,
Unda

Goofy Halloween Devil--hope the animation works!

 

[Ricckk]

It is absurd that anyone would categorize a large group of people based on some small empirical observations. As I said in the original thread:

Some submissives are emotionally adolescent. True
Some submissives are emotionally mature. True
Some dominants are emotionally adolescent. True

You get the point...

Richard:

I served 13 months in a little place called Viet Nam in 1968 - 69
I left many things behind but took at lest one thing (positive) home with me ...............

The knowledge that in the unoiversal scheme of things
I am as important as anyone else .... but no more important

back to the couch for me
My house is such a disaster I can not begin to "fix" it today

Your posts are always thoughtful and kind. Your house is in much better order than you give yourself credit for.

I also vacationed in SE Asia, courtesy of USMC 69-71. We all left a lot there, we all have our scars from that place.