Submissives, which is harder?

[redelicious]

I was reading the thread about pain and came to ID's post. At the end of talking about pain and power exchange she mentions that she hasn't tried bondage yet. And I started thinking...

I assume that pain is really the harder aspect of physical submission, because it was for me. Heck, it's PAIN afterall. Bondage on the surface seems like a piece of cake in comparision. Now granted, I have never been bound for long periods of time (think hours).

Now I am starting to think about how bondage might be more mentally taxing, and how it feels when bondage is combined with pain...but I am trying to stay focused.

So I will just ask, which is the more difficult activity for you?

 

[InnerDarkness]

Glad to see I inspired a new discussion LOL, but it also gets me to thinking....

I have only ever been tied up once and it was back in high school...I dated an older boy...he tied my wrists to the bed posts and we had sex...nothing overly kinky or exciting about it at the time...I just remember being really nervous about not being able to get free if I needed to.

The pain thing for me hasnt been hard to deal with because I LIKE the pain...and I havent been pushed over any limits yet, but one of the things I worry about a bit with bondage is my inability to touch him...my inability to struggle. Sir knows that part of my submissive personality is also my tendancy to resist...and he works with that well, but if I were bound, I wouldnt be able to resist....and to not be able to touch him would also be something I am not sure I would like. He held my hands one time as I gave him a blowjob and it was so difficult for me not to be able to touch him...caress him...

I also wonder....and this may sound naive...but...what's in it for me? I know some binding can be done to obviously inflict pain, but is it more the mental issue of being bound?

I am anxious to see everyone's thoughts!

 

[redelicious]

Glad to see I inspired a new discussion LOL, but it also gets me to thinking....

I have only ever been tied up once and it was back in high school...I dated an older boy...he tied my wrists to the bed posts and we had sex...nothing overly kinky or exciting about it at the time...I just remember being really nervous about not being able to get free if I needed to.

The pain thing for me hasnt been hard to deal with because I LIKE the pain...and I havent been pushed over any limits yet, but one of the things I worry about a bit with bondage is my inability to touch him...my inability to struggle. Sir knows that part of my submissive personality is also my tendancy to resist...and he works with that well, but if I were bound, I wouldnt be able to resist....and to not be able to touch him would also be something I am not sure I would like. He held my hands one time as I gave him a blowjob and it was so difficult for me not to be able to touch him...caress him...

I also wonder....and this may sound naive...but...what's in it for me? I know some binding can be done to obviously inflict pain, but is it more the mental issue of being bound?

I am anxious to see everyone's thoughts!

Hi ID. Thank you for your response...

Not being able to touch someone when we really want to is really hard, but then it's a good reminder that the sub's wants and needs are secondary.

Thinking back on my experiences with bondage... a friend and I played once with ropes. This is a person I trusted implicitly, btw. He wasn't a Dom so there was no power exchange, but the activity appealed to me on many levels. First, it felt good. I liked feeling stretched. I liked the feel of the rope on my body as he wound it around me. Secondly, I got a big kick out of seeing how much fun he was having. It made him happy and that thrilled me. On another level, I enjoyed watching him as he worked - as he considered what he was going to do and executed his ideas. It was like being a human sculpture. And of course, he took the opportunity to tease me, and you know I liked that too!

On other occaisions (with someone else) bondage has been almost symbolic. I have worn cuffs to never have them attached to anything. Again, they were a reminder of the nature of the relationship. I have also worn the cuffs and had my movements totally restricted. Yes, it is scary, and especially so when getting spanked or some other similar activity. I think it relates to trust, which is hard for me.

I feel I have gotten off topic, but I thank you for the thought provoking post!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Think in a way you both have hit the nail on the head. Many speak of not needing bondage as they like to hold the position for their Dominant to prove their submission, obedience, etc., but there is the flipside to this which is allowing yourself to be bound in a variety of ways giving the Dominant the power and control, effectively removing your choice to submit and hold your position whether you like it or not. Master can just bind me, or he can put me in a body harness and/or rope bra. The body harness is constructed in such a way to give both pain and pleasure, depending on his mood and my behaviour. Going out with either of these forms of bondage under your clothing can also be both a turn on and a challenge.

Given I love bondage, and have found it is my favourite way to sleep...almost like I was born to it, I also have panic attacks at times when he begins to bind me. There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason for them, and they in themselves provide me with a further challenge to get past to provide himwith his needs being met. It is all good in the end, and I think I love both bondage and pain on an equal basis, but for different reasons.

Catalina

 

[il mio angelo]

I also wonder....and this may sound naive...but...what's in it for me? I know some binding can be done to obviously inflict pain, but is it more the mental issue of being bound?

Maybe it's just me, but this bewildered me a bit. I would venture to guess that it is probably because of how I was once trained, or my submissive ideals, but the idea of what is in it for me really isn't a factor. Of course I am not saying that one should mindlessly do any and all things, or that it should be done if it is a limit. However, if the Dom/me wants their sub/slave bound, the inevitable goal is what is in it for the Dom/me.... not the sub.

I personally have never gotten much from bondage, but I think that has more to do with the situation or scenes I was in. I have a difficult time with mental bondage, and refraining from touching Him, so that too may be a factor.

For me the pain aspect was/is a lot easier, but that is simply because I really do like the pain. For me, bondage, whether physical or mental is for His benefit or desire, not mine.... Though it could just be that I haven't been tied up or bound by the right one yet.

 

[InnerDarkness]

Maybe it's just me, but this bewildered me a bit. I would venture to guess that it is probably because of how I was once trained, or my submissive ideals, but the idea of what is in it for me really isn't a factor. Of course I am not saying that one should mindlessly do any and all things, or that it should be done if it is a limit. However, if the Dom/me wants their sub/slave bound, the inevitable goal is what is in it for the Dom/me.... not the sub.

I personally have never gotten much from bondage, but I think that has more to do with the situation or scenes I was in. I have a difficult time with mental bondage, and refraining from touching Him, so that too may be a factor.

For me the pain aspect was/is a lot easier, but that is simply because I really do like the pain. For me, bondage, whether physical or mental is for His benefit or desire, not mine.... Though it could just be that I haven't been tied up or bound by the right one yet.

I assumed someone would point that line out sooner or later....frankly I am surprised it took someone this long, usually people jump on those kind of statements immediately...

It isnt necessarily about what's in it for me in terms of my needs or my desires being placed before his...perhaps I worded it wrong, or perhaps you misunderstood my intent...I meant, what does the binding process and sensations do for you as the one being bound....I havent really experienced it, so I have no clue....pain, mental stimulation, humiliation, etc

In my relationship, my needs are as important as his, because he allows them to be so. I personally love that...he knows his pleasure is still my focus, but his focus is my pleasure in return...so naturally when we embark on new adventures together, it isnt just for him or just for me...it is for US together...

 

[catalina_francisco]

....I havent really experienced it, so I have no clue....pain, mental stimulation, humiliation, etc

In my relationship, my needs are as important as his, because he allows them to be so. I personally love that...he knows his pleasure is still my focus, but his focus is my pleasure in return...so naturally when we embark on new adventures together, it isnt just for him or just for me...it is for US together...

I think with most Dominants I have known, the focus is on both the submissives pleasure as well as their own. For Master, he derives a huge amount of pleasure for himself through my own pleasure factor, but there are also times when he only takes into account his own needs as is his right, but which in so doing he also knows gives me a thrill that can't be replaced.

As for the feelings engendered by bondage for the submissive, it can be many depending on the person, and who is doing the tying. I have no desire to be tied by a stranger as to me it is an act of submission, and one I want to give to someone I damn well know can be trusted. Once I have that person who can be trusted, and is willing to tie me for his own pleasure, I try to enjoy the whole experience.

I love the feeling of the body harness, the way it covers, actually encases the body, seems to hold you with the ropes. It is a secure and loving feeling. I also love the way bondage can free you through restricting your movements....can humiliate through the myriad of positions available....and the way a skilled dominant can place knots throughout their work to tease and tantalise in either a pleasant or unpleasant way, depending on their mood for each moment.

I think when some people think of bondage, they think only of the standard being tied spreadeagle on a bed and ravished or whipped, because that may be all they have been exposed to or heard about. There is so much more to it, and the art can be mastered to engender sensations, feelings and emotions which run the gamut of the human experience.

Catalina

 

[ownedsubgal]

personally, bondage IS physically painful for me. of course, when i say bondage i don't mean being handcuffed to the bed posts or tied prettily with scarves....i mean ropes, chains, in unnatural/uncomfortable positions, whether for short or long periods of time. it's physically and mentally taxing. so i tend to view bondage as a particular kind of pain, but pain nonetheless. i'm not a pain slut, so many kinds of pain are difficult for me to endure. but because of the way bondage screws with my brain as well as my body, i would say it's more difficult for me to bear than say, being whipped with the belt (which is also very very hard for me).

 

[redelicious]

Think in a way you both have hit the nail on the head. Many speak of not needing bondage as they like to hold the position for their Dominant to prove their submission, obedience, etc., but there is the flipside to this which is allowing yourself to be bound in a variety of ways giving the Dominant the power and control, effectively removing your choice to submit and hold your position whether you like it or not. Master can just bind me, or he can put me in a body harness and/or rope bra. The body harness is constructed in such a way to give both pain and pleasure, depending on his mood and my behaviour. Going out with either of these forms of bondage under your clothing can also be both a turn on and a challenge.

Given I love bondage, and have found it is my favourite way to sleep...almost like I was born to it, I also have panic attacks at times when he begins to bind me. There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason for them, and they in themselves provide me with a further challenge to get past to provide himwith his needs being met. It is all good in the end, and I think I love both bondage and pain on an equal basis, but for different reasons.

Catalina

Thank you for your thoughts Catalina.

I agree, both pain and bondage can be challenging but for totally different reasons. To be honest, I think these challenges are what make both activities frightening, yet appealing. Overcoming each hurdle as limits are pushed is part of the growth process.

I had the same thoughts about how the choice to submit is removed during bondage. The power is taken in that case, which may appeal more to the Dom/me or sub who has fantasies of nonconsent.

Which brings me to mental bondage. Thinking of ID's first post, imagine how much more difficult it would be not to touch simply because he said so without the aid of him holding her hands. To me, this requires mental discipline and adds a whole other element to the experience.

 

[redelicious]

Maybe it's just me, but this bewildered me a bit. I would venture to guess that it is probably because of how I was once trained, or my submissive ideals, but the idea of what is in it for me really isn't a factor. Of course I am not saying that one should mindlessly do any and all things, or that it should be done if it is a limit. However, if the Dom/me wants their sub/slave bound, the inevitable goal is what is in it for the Dom/me.... not the sub.

I personally have never gotten much from bondage, but I think that has more to do with the situation or scenes I was in. I have a difficult time with mental bondage, and refraining from touching Him, so that too may be a factor.

For me the pain aspect was/is a lot easier, but that is simply because I really do like the pain. For me, bondage, whether physical or mental is for His benefit or desire, not mine.... Though it could just be that I haven't been tied up or bound by the right one yet.

Hello il mio angelo,

I agree, either act is more about what the Dom/me wants then how we experience it. Speaking from past experience, I appreciate it when the Dom/me understands where I am in the process and uses that information. I also know there are times when how I feel would be totally irrelavent and I would have to appreciate that too (I say that with the understanding that this would not apply to hard limits).

 

[redelicious]

I assumed someone would point that line out sooner or later....frankly I am surprised it took someone this long, usually people jump on those kind of statements immediately...

It isnt necessarily about what's in it for me in terms of my needs or my desires being placed before his...perhaps I worded it wrong, or perhaps you misunderstood my intent...I meant, what does the binding process and sensations do for you as the one being bound....I havent really experienced it, so I have no clue....pain, mental stimulation, humiliation, etc

In my relationship, my needs are as important as his, because he allows them to be so. I personally love that...he knows his pleasure is still my focus, but his focus is my pleasure in return...so naturally when we embark on new adventures together, it isnt just for him or just for me...it is for US together...

Like many things that get discussed here, this may be one of those that you actually have to experience to find out the answer. I do think much of it falls into either 1)I like it for the sensation, or 2) I like it because S/He likes it.

I really can't add anything else to Catalina's response, so I will let it go at that.

 

[redelicious]

personally, bondage IS physically painful for me. of course, when i say bondage i don't mean being handcuffed to the bed posts or tied prettily with scarves....i mean ropes, chains, in unnatural/uncomfortable positions, whether for short or long periods of time. it's physically and mentally taxing. so i tend to view bondage as a particular kind of pain, but pain nonetheless. i'm not a pain slut, so many kinds of pain are difficult for me to endure. but because of the way bondage screws with my brain as well as my body, i would say it's more difficult for me to bear than say, being whipped with the belt (which is also very very hard for me).

I think there has to be a mental aspect of pain, whether it comes from bondage or whipping. I think there are a few threads here already about how your mind processes and deals with pain. Only once have I been through a situation where the pain was just unbearable to me and I couldn't continue (but again, I have limited experiences). I lack both the mental and physical endurance to really be at the point where I can accept and embrace pain. I suppose for some acceptance would be a realistic goal, while others may always have to struggle.

 

[enigma nocturne]

I do not find that either one is harder; I like both. However, I am a pain slut, and I have found that when the pain gets really intense, it is easier when when I am bound. No matter how good it hurts, sooner or later you move. Either you are reaching the threshold where it gets too intense so you wiggle away or you instinctively try to duck blow, or move away from the needles or whatever. Or sometimes you reach orgasm and you move which can be downright dangerous, especially when there's fireplay or something going on.

So I have found neither one is harder but sometimes both are neccessary.

 

[Soron]

Excellent thread, miss red.

Bondage, in any form is really what the two participants make it. The physical part of pain or bondage is nothing without the mental aspect. How it makes you feel is important.

Having a slave bound on a hook or on a bed or on a spanking bench for that matter is quite a 'high' for me. It's the ultimate physical and mental control that drives me. When I'm hitting on all cylinders and she is focused on pleasing me, then there is no limit to what pleasures we both can achieve. In bondage, I can't help but take my time. Excuse my French here, but I'm not pleased until I have driven her so crazy she literally screams for me to fuck her. Depending on the submissive, that can take a while.

Whatever it pleases me to do when I have her bound, I will do, to get to that screaming point. Spanking, flogging, or just using my hands. I WANT her to struggle to get free, wanting to touch me. I want her to feel like she has no control and giving in to letting go.

 

[il mio angelo]

Hello il mio angelo,

I agree, either act is more about what the Dom/me wants then how we experience it. Speaking from past experience, I appreciate it when the Dom/me understands where I am in the process and uses that information. I also know there are times when how I feel would be totally irrelavent and I would have to appreciate that too (I say that with the understanding that this would not apply to hard limits).

Hello redelicious.....

I agree completely! Aside from bondage and pain (which are two separate things to me), there were several things that I did for a former Dom that I myself did not derive pleasure from. My pleasure factor came from His.

I think that the pleasure of the submissive should be a factor, but not the first most concern, and of course there will be times when the pleasure of the sub is irrelivant or take a back seat to the pleasure and desire of the Dom/me.

 

[redelicious]

I do not find that either one is harder; I like both. However, I am a pain slut, and I have found that when the pain gets really intense, it is easier when when I am bound. No matter how good it hurts, sooner or later you move. Either you are reaching the threshold where it gets too intense so you wiggle away or you instinctively try to duck blow, or move away from the needles or whatever. Or sometimes you reach orgasm and you move which can be downright dangerous, especially when there's fireplay or something going on.

So I have found neither one is harder but sometimes both are neccessary.

Ty Ysabet for providing another facet that I didn't even think about. It's true, there are times when your body reacts involuntarily and bondage becomes absolutely necessary.

 

[redelicious]

Excellent thread, miss red.

Bondage, in any form is really what the two participants make it. The physical part of pain or bondage is nothing without the mental aspect. How it makes you feel is important.

Having a slave bound on a hook or on a bed or on a spanking bench for that matter is quite a 'high' for me. It's the ultimate physical and mental control that drives me. When I'm hitting on all cylinders and she is focused on pleasing me, then there is no limit to what pleasures we both can achieve. In bondage, I can't help but take my time. Excuse my French here, but I'm not pleased until I have driven her so crazy she literally screams for me to fuck her. Depending on the submissive, that can take a while.

Whatever it pleases me to do when I have her bound, I will do, to get to that screaming point. Spanking, flogging, or just using my hands. I WANT her to struggle to get free, wanting to touch me. I want her to feel like she has no control and giving in to letting go.

Ty Soron, both for the compliment and also for giving some incite as to how Doms percieve bondage, and for showing how the mental and the physical aspects are essentially married.

 

[redelicious]

Hello redelicious.....

I agree completely! Aside from bondage and pain (which are two separate things to me), there were several things that I did for a former Dom that I myself did not derive pleasure from. My pleasure factor came from His.

I think that the pleasure of the submissive should be a factor, but not the first most concern, and of course there will be times when the pleasure of the sub is irrelivant or take a back seat to the pleasure and desire of the Dom/me.

Yep. Each relationship is different and each Dom/me will take care of their subs needs as they see fit. We accept this, and hopefuly can find a relationship that works for both.

Please call me Red.

 

[enigma nocturne]

Ty Ysabet for providing another facet that I didn't even think about. It's true, there are times when your body reacts involuntarily and bondage becomes absolutely necessary.

You are welcome, glad I could add something.

 

[Arden]

Bondage, in any form is really what the two participants make it. The physical part of pain or bondage is nothing without the mental aspect. How it makes you feel is important.

The strength of mental bondage can often be felt long before cuffs, chains or ropes are fastened. Sometimes, words alone can bring on mental bondage. Simple words that speak to your heart and soul can change an ordinary evening into heaven.

Pain, by itself, is simply pain.

 

[BrightFlower]

The hardest thing for me would not be the pain or the bondage.
It would have to be the Blindfold. The Not Knowing what He will do next. I guess that's a form of mental bondage. It's the most incapacitating thing He can do to me.

 

[cellis]

Before there were toys, there was rope. I can still remember the day as clear and bright as if it were yesterday. He ordered me to be waiting for Him, naked in bed and gave me a specific time limit. I was to have blindfolded myself with a scarf and to wait. The waiting I view as a form of bondage. The building anticipation... the waiting... the needs beginning to take over... and the anxiety of what He will do... It is all so new... Because I was blindfolded, I could hear Him enter... I could feel His weight on the bed as He sat next to me... I reached out to touch Him and He brushed my hand away... "No! Be still! No touching! And do not speak! Do you understand?" I nodded my head yes... and relaxed a little.

I heard the snap of His knife as He openned it and the rustle of a plastic bag. I heard Him cutting something, but still had no idea what He was really doing. I heard the flick of a lighter and smelt burning nylon. My imagination was peaked. Still I had no idea of what He was doing.

Suddenly, He pulled my arm above my head and I felt Him wrap something around my wrist and pull it tight against the head of the bed. He repeated this action with the other wrist and both ankles. I was naked... spread wide open and totally vulnerable... I was His to do with as He pleased... to do what He pleased to me... I could feel my heart racing in my chest... beating wildly with excitement and just a touch of fear... not that He would hurt me... but fear of where He would go from here...



We have had many conversations about that day and other days like that one... He loves ropes and I do too... He loves to take the time to make the bondage look pleasing... He likes to make the package look pretty... but He wants to make certain that there is a level of excitement for me as well... I on the other hand, want to please Him... I get so much out of His pleasure and excitement when He has created something with me that pleases Him greatly.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

The strength of mental bondage can often be felt long before cuffs, chains or ropes are fastened. Sometimes, words alone can bring on mental bondage. Simple words that speak to your heart and soul can change an ordinary evening into heaven.

Pain, by itself, is simply pain.

My drop into subspace begins long before the first instrument touches my body, with His words, His voice. Mental Bondage is common--even for scenes in which I may be whipped with several implements.

I seldom feel the need to reach out and touch Him, because it's not ABOUT me. I am serving Him. He could just choose to leave me there, or tie me up. Fuck me, or not. Let me cum or not. Either way, it's not about ME.

I strive to serve, and make that service be about Him and not about me. He gifts me with a ride into subspace, and the hugs and caresses of aftercare. It's then that I can't take my hands off Him; I feel a need to reconnect to Him, and He indulges me the time to slowly come back down and reconnect with myself...Him...reality. Even that, I consider a service to Him, making myself whole and complete for His continued use.


~anelize

 

[redelicious]

The strength of mental bondage can often be felt long before cuffs, chains or ropes are fastened. Sometimes, words alone can bring on mental bondage. Simple words that speak to your heart and soul can change an ordinary evening into heaven.

Pain, by itself, is simply pain.

Even pain on it's own can serve a purpose and requires a certain mental strength. But I agree, there is a different sort of connection one reaches through bondage. Longer lasting? Stonger maybe? I don't know.

This is one of those intangable things I don't have enough experience with to speak about clearly.

As always, ty Arden.

 

[InnerDarkness]

Anelize...i always love hearing about how you view your role...and about how you feel when you serve him...i can only imagine how wonderful some of your experiences must be. I am still learning, but I, too get that immense pleasure from pleasing him...

and I like the way Arden described the mental bondage. Sir's words alone can stop me in mid sentence...stop all my thoughts and actions and render me completely at his service whether 20 hours away from him or at his side...