Submissive's Purpose

[lark sparrow]

to respond to Pure, my Master and i chose each other. but my purpose as a submissive is by no means limited to my Master. i am submissive with, or without a Master. my purpose as a submissive is to please and serve others, period. that's just the "role" i fit into naturally in life. not a choice.

Do you think finding your place and value with your Master has altered your role to please and serve others? or is it due to this written format (Lit, the BDSM board) that you seem not to be an overt pleaser and server in general? I do not doubt your purpose or assesment of yourself for one minute, but I do notice that you do not seem to do that here, and rather show an independent and sharp knowledge of yourself and the way life is for you. Just curious, as my understanding of a general "pleaser" is one who is (perhaps a bit wishy washy, easily swayed, uncertain), and generally trying to be pleasing and gain acceptance first, precluding being overtly independent and rather strong-willed in their approach to others.

And before anyone says "Being submissive doesn't make one a doormat"... yes, I would be the first to shout that from the top of buildings. I identify as a submissive, but I do not identify general pleasing and serving of others as one of my personality traits. Neither is better or worse, they just are.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

I am enjoying where this discussion has gone. Thank you, Pure and Lark Sparrow, for your posts. They are always exceptionally thought-provoking. I have a difficult time with the whole "i chose the Dom" thing. Yes, i suppose i did. He didn't pick me out of a line-up. However, i find it to be more of a we agreed together to walk this path, than "i" decided to have Him as my Dom and away we went, down the merry path of D/s. There was a period of getting to know each other, before i ever called Him 'Sir', when trust was developing and i was coming to know that this was a person i wished to serve. Once that line was crossed, Johnny Mayberry described it best.

originally posted by Johnny Mayberry
My mood, my desire, is what matters, not what she wants. If our desires for certain behavior match, it is wonderful, but for me, the only desire a sub should concern herself with is the desire to serve my needs.

As far as pleasing myself goes? If something pleases me in my service to Him, that's all well and good. But if it doesn't, as Johnny said, it's not really my concern. You spoke of expectations of love. I don't think that this relationship, in it's present form, requires love to exist. My expectations revolve around the safety of my person and my mental and emotional state. I require trust, and respect. Other than that, i serve Him.

~anelize

 

[ownedsubgal]

Do you think finding your place and value with your Master has altered your role to please and serve others? or is it due to this written format (Lit, the BDSM board) that you seem not to be an overt pleaser and server in general? I do not doubt your purpose or assesment of yourself for one minute, but I do notice that you do not seem to do that here, and rather show an independent and sharp knowledge of yourself and the way life is for you. Just curious, as my understanding of a general "pleaser" is one who is (perhaps a bit wishy washy, easily swayed, uncertain), and generally trying to be pleasing and gain acceptance first, precluding being overtly independent and rather strong-willed in their approach to others.

And before anyone says "Being submissive doesn't make one a doormat"... yes, I would be the first to shout that from the top of buildings. I identify as a submissive, but I do not identify general pleasing and serving of others as one of my personality traits. Neither is better or worse, they just are.

wow, i come across as independent?? lol. it's true i am strong willed, but yes, i am definitely a general people pleaser/server in everyday life. i have always been the one to do the "grunt" work, the one volunteering for all the difficult, tedious tasks no one else wants, the one baking cakes for everyone's birthday, doing everyone's homework even tho i hated them, etc. but i have always believed in being true to myself and my beliefs, and i won't pretend that i'm someone i'm not just to go along with the crowd. i want to serve and please the crowd, but i don't want to be one of the crowd, if that makes sense.

meeting my Master has changed nothing about my submissiveness in general...i'm more careful now, don't get into those awful situations so much, but that is because i'm carefully watched and protected. but i still have the "get into the car with the strange man beckoning me from the street" kinda subbie personality.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

hello all...

Just a couple aberrant opinions from a part timer:

To subprincess, pleasure kitten, Anelize, apet4u, ownsubgal, and some other, when you say the purpose is total service, the pleasure of Him, etc., wouldn't it be correct that you chose the dom?

If so, you chose the manner of service, the types of 'pleasures' you minister to--

what are your expectations in the relationship where you serve? For instance, in those cases where love is given, is love expected in return? [/i] A couple posters have said as much. Wouldn't it be fair then, if we suppose you're in a relationship satisfying your expectations, to say that you please yourself and much as, and equally to, your pleasing Him?

Just some wonderings, and thanks for listening.

J.

I would like to respond to few points made in this particular post concerning my posts. I do not know if I have ever said "total" service ...I have re-read my post and I don't recall seeing those words...What i do know is that yes, I did choose my owner as I chose the 2 previous. And yes, the services I provide are ones that we agreed I will do. However, even in a d/s relationship there is room for growth and love. When I speak of my submission, I am speaking as a woman who until recently never submitted to a male...and who is now exploring the male/female aspect of d/s with someone who is not only my best friend but the love of my life.

As for expectations in the midst of our relationship, I have none. Would I like for him to love me as I love him? Yes, but that does not mean I expect that he will. I can hope for it, but it may not happen and that does not affect the level of service I give to him. As i have said before on other boards...mayhap my mentality is more slavish than submissive...i am not sure...what i do know is that by serving my owner (or any dom/me i deem worthy of service) I fulfill a need with in myself...thus pleasing both of us equally (i would hope). I hope i have explained myself a little better, pure so that you can understand my thought process...thank you...

 

[maddi]

I understand this....

You know, I keep reading that the "Purpose of a sub is to please, and serve". It's funny, but I loose sight of that when I'm tying them down, and fucking them. If anything, the Top serves, and pleases the sub, depending how you look at it.
There is no purpose, it's something they like to do. We're lovers, and lovers serve, and please each other. While in a Ds relationship, there's a nominal Top, and bottom, I usually see myself doing more work, than the sub, and they get more pleasure out of it.
The purpose of the sub is to love unconditionally, and to obey.

I feel my purpose is to be mightly used, like a dirty rag, and I get the ultimate pleasure in that but.....

my Dom (my husband) seems to forget that he can take advantage of that so he ends up working the hardest for the simplest pleasure. He keeps working harder and harder at using me, new toys, tricks, etc... but yet it still seems like more and more work for him.

I keep have to remind him that he can use me during our after sex debriefings. Sometimes I am not sure what he gets out of it?

 

[lark sparrow]

wow, i come across as independent?? lol. it's true i am strong willed, but yes, i am definitely a general people pleaser/server in everyday life. i have always been the one to do the "grunt" work, the one volunteering for all the difficult, tedious tasks no one else wants, the one baking cakes for everyone's birthday, doing everyone's homework even tho i hated them, etc. but i have always believed in being true to myself and my beliefs, and i won't pretend that i'm someone i'm not just to go along with the crowd. i want to serve and please the crowd, but i don't want to be one of the crowd, if that makes sense.

meeting my Master has changed nothing about my submissiveness in general...i'm more careful now, don't get into those awful situations so much, but that is because i'm carefully watched and protected. but i still have the "get into the car with the strange man beckoning me from the street" kinda subbie personality.

That makes sense - thanks for the insight. Perhaps it's due to my reading and relating comprehension or lack thereof lol but I was struck more by your independence than your need to please in reading your words here.

 

[ownedsubgal]

lark, that is the wildest thing, because i'm not the least lil bit independent! lol. i have always been an extremely dependent person. but i think that often people correlate dependency with mindlessness or lack of independent thought.

 

[lark sparrow]

Re: I understand this....

I feel my purpose is to be mightly used, like a dirty rag

What a turn of phrase! That's some strong imagery.

 

[Pure]

Hi maddi,

you said


I feel my purpose is to be mightly used, like a dirty rag, and I get the ultimate pleasure in that but.....

my Dom (my husband) seems to forget that he can take advantage of that so he ends up working the hardest for the simplest pleasure. He keeps working harder and harder at using me, new toys, tricks, etc... but yet it still seems like more and more work for him.

I keep have to remind him that he can use me during our after sex debriefings. Sometimes I am not sure what he gets out of it?



It seems to me we've had a couple threads around here on training one's dom/me.! I seem to recall one idea was through his/her exposure to reading talking looking at videos etc., rather than telling him or her the details of a procedure.

Of course you know the idea is for one person's pleasure or script NOT to become a chore for the other. Dom/mes, like many other people, hate chores.

In a way your post illustrates a point I was trying to make; you do have expectations. In the long run, through your actions (for example, rejecting those self-said masters who won't 'use' you), you'll likely end up with someone who'll use you like a dirty rag, as you wish.

Maybe your present partner will change in that direction. Let's hope that when you have it, it's gratifying for both of you. And do convey to 'Him' the idea that even dirty rags require a little care--food, warm place to sleep, etc.--so as to be available for use the next day.

 

[Pure]

//like a dirty rag//

For those who missed the scriptural ref,
Tanakh, Isaiah 64:5

[Addressed to God]


We have all become like an unclean thing,
And all our virtues like a filthy rag.
We are all withering like leaves,
And our iniquities, like a wind, carry us off.

 

[Moyds_jewel]

The purpose of a submissive

...in general, is not the purpose of the submissive to be whatever her/his dominant requires within the context of their relationship?

In the context of the D/s relationship I have with my beloved Sir, I am to please him and be found pleasing. From this flows everything else. Master says we are partners, with equal responsibilities and requirements. If either of us felt that our role was burdensome, we would ask for a timeout to discuss it.

Yes...I chose to submit to this particular Dominant, after searching for a compatible match. As others have pointed out here, we seek out a match to our own desires and needs. After all, what is the point of a bondage submissive giving herself to a pain dominant? Failure of the relationship would seem to be inevitable.

Richard, what is the purpose of a dominant?
Can a dominant dominate in the absense of a submissive? (what changes about a dominant when there is no one around to dominate?)
Can one be submissive in the absense of a dominant (If the submissive is unattached, is her purpose different from one who is in a D/s relationship? I would think 'yes.')

jewel

 

[Pure]

jewel said

//After all, what is the point of a bondage submissive giving herself to a pain dominant? //

The point would be that that's a fuller, truer, more demanding submission precisely because pain is NOT her bag.

Further, since she loves and gets off on bondage, that isn't really 'submission' at all, it's (primarily) pleasing herself.

If someone really wants an ordeal, they should be pleased to be sent to climb Everest, instead of to the local ice cream store.

If I get off on bondage and pay (or otherwise get) some one to tie me so I'll get aroused, and can later jerk off thinking of the whole thing, where exactly is the submission?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Damn, pure, my thoughts exactly...what I am looking for in a sub is someone who will submit, not someone who like to play the same way I do. Having my limits in common is a good thing, but my sub's limits are mine to toy with, you know? Not to flat-out violate, but certainly to stretch and push. A D/s relationship, to me, has to be about growing together, meshing into unity. If you already agree on everything, what is the point, where is the submission?

 

[MissTaken]

Hmm

Johnny and Pure,

Are you suggesting that you only believe someone is submitting when they do something they would never normally do or want to do?

If I recieve pleasure, I am not submitting?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Hmm

Johnny and Pure,

Are you suggesting that you only believe someone is submitting when they do something they would never normally do or want to do?

If I recieve pleasure, I am not submitting?

Yep, that's what I'm saying....so ON YOUR...


(my inner voice is telling me to back off before i get hurt...)


Anyhoo, I never said 'only'. I believe that submitting isn't about specific acts, but about an attitude of putting the needs of a Dom/me first. If a sub always enjoys everything, simply because they are serving, it is submission(whether or not they enjoy the activities,although of course it is fine if they do). If a sub finds someone who only does what they like, all the time, are they really submissive? They wouldn't have to be, after all.

 

[MissTaken]

Okay, I think I am following you.

If a Dominant feels confined in his activities by the desire of the submissive, it isn't submission. Agreed.

What happens and how it happens is up to the Dominant.

Now, I like anal sex.
I may get anal sex or not. It isn't up to me.
I may get flogged on a night when I really want anal.
To that end, regardless of the fact that both are activities I enjoy, I "submit" to His wishes especially if it is a night when I would rather curl up with a good book and chill out

Now, in that I enjoy serving, there have been times when I really wanted to use the "not now, honey, I have a headache" line. But submitted and gained pleasure by serving him.

So, a submissive's pleasure is two fold...things she enjoys (kinky acts or sex), and the pleasure of serving and pleasing her Dominant.

A submissive who controls what happens in a scene by dictating her desires and the Dominant who follows her "Directions" every time is topping from the bottom. Certainly, there are times when a Dominant will respect the submissive's wishes. Sometimes I really do have a migraine!



edited to add: Finding someone who's interests match mine doesn't mean that I dictate the agenda. Also, with time, interests change and evolve. However, a fetishist who must have beastiality involved in their play will not get passed "Hello" with me.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Miss T, we're more or less in agreement...I just couldn't put it the right way.

 

[MissTaken]

Miss T, we're more or less in agreement...I just couldn't put it the right way.

Yep. I realized that after I got done posting.

 

[T.J. Jackson]

Snip.....So, a submissive's pleasure is two fold...things she enjoys (kinky acts or sex), and the pleasure of serving and pleasing her Dominant.

A submissive who controls what happens in a scene by dictating her desires and the Dominant who follows her "Directions" every time is topping from the bottom. Certainly, there are times when a Dominant will respect the submissive's wishes. Sometimes I really do have a migraine!
...snip

For me, being new, it is hard to listen to my submissives wishes without appearing (for lack of a better word) weak. It's all about finding a balance and what works for you. We still haven't found this balance completely but it is getting easier.

 

[MissTaken]

For me, being new, it is hard to listen to my submissives wishes without appearing (for lack of a better word) weak. It's all about finding a balance and what works for you. We still haven't found this balance completely but it is getting easier.

That balance is difficult to find, I think.

If I am wiht someone who pays too much attention to how I am enjoying myself or choreographs a scene around the things that he knows I like, I feel a bit of a let down.

Most often, I have been asked what I enjoy early on in the relationshp and what my fantasies are. AFter that, no Dom has ever said, "Do you want....?" They just go with what feels good and most times it feels good to me as well.

My kinks are rather eclectic, I guess.

 

[T.J. Jackson]

That balance is difficult to find, I think.

If I am wiht someone who pays too much attention to how I am enjoying myself or choreographs a scene around the things that he knows I like, I feel a bit of a let down.

Most often, I have been asked what I enjoy early on in the relationshp and what my fantasies are. AFter that, no Dom has ever said, "Do you want....?" They just go with what feels good and most times it feels good to me as well.

My kinks are rather eclectic, I guess.

We're still in the early on phase. Early on in BDSM and early on in our relationship. We've known each other for seven months now but still finding stuff out about each other. I love the adventure.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

For me, being new, it is hard to listen to my submissives wishes without appearing (for lack of a better word) weak. It's all about finding a balance and what works for you. We still haven't found this balance completely but it is getting easier.

It has to do with figuring out your own power, and exercising it. If you KNOW you are in charge, you can indulge your sub at your whim, and still mainain your dominance.

 

[Richard49]

What do you see as the primary purpose of a submissive ?

 

[T.J. Jackson]

It has to do with figuring out your own power, and exercising it. If you KNOW you are in charge, you can indulge your sub at your whim, and still mainain your dominance.

Yep. I'm finding it easier said than done though. It'll come in time. Like I said, we are new. Figuring out limits and likes for the both of us. It has resulted in a LOT of great conversations, exploring each other like we both haven't done in the past with others.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Yep. I'm finding it easier said than done though. It'll come in time. Like I said, we are new. Figuring out limits and likes for the both of us. It has resulted in a LOT of great conversations, exploring each other like we both haven't done in the past with others.

Cool, good luck and enjoy your exploring...and remember, it is all for YOU...that is your sub's purpose.