Submissives... feed back?

[SheDevilShay]

This will probably only apply to a few in here, but I am interested on feed back to understand my own emotions.


I feel the need to be utterly humiliated, dominated and forced before I will give my submission willingly...

If my alpha is not stronger then me, I feel he is unworthy of my submission.

To me, it is a battle of wills.. the words "I don't want too" are ingraned in my vocabularly... along with no...

I do not fear pain, I do not fear punishments.... I get a thrill on the battle of the wills...

I do not understand this, and it fears me... I know that my dom will be extreme with me while he breaks me, and Idon't want him to think I am weak (i.e. using my safe word.. as he fears he will push me to far and to fast breaking me emotionally...) But I truely feel that I need this...

If he wants me to be a good submissive to him, he needs to curb stomp all my bossiness, my dom tedencies and my stubborness... I am a dom's nightmare.. I say no just for the thrill of saying no, and I don't fear pain...

(think 25 hours of natural birth/labor and annoyed the doctor made me get pain meds for the last 3 1/2 hours...)

now, I don't expect him to beat me until I pass out.. far from it.. I expect most of these excersizes to be 100% mental...

My dom lurks on here as twingee. My goal is to get myself educated for his pleasure.. but part of my problem is, I need motivation.. If I have my way, I do not "care" about his needs.. which is why I feel the need for him to utterly dominate me and make me submissive before I can truely embrace that roll.

I need him to force me to 100% submit to him before I can do so on my own
Can anyone here relate to this?

 

[intothewoods]

Is it bad this made me smile? I'm similar, although I don't need to be humiliated per se.

If I know I have a man, Dom or not, wrapped around my finger, there's no chance I'll submit. Bottom? Sure. But that's it. If I know you're crushin on me, I'll tease and entice and play games, but you aren't going to get me.

 

[SubKekiLee]

I dont go against him at all.. I dont fear him but I AM smitten by him he is my dom, my ruler... if he were weak I prolly couldnt submit...

 

[SheDevilShay]

Is it bad this made me smile? I'm similar, although I don't need to be humiliated per se.

If I know I have a man, Dom or not, wrapped around my finger, there's no chance I'll submit. Bottom? Sure. But that's it. If I know you're crushin on me, I'll tease and entice and play games, but you aren't going to get me.

Maybe not humiliated... i.e. him forcing me to pee on the sidewalk...(haha that probably wouldn't do it for me, actaully i don't think it would even bother me..)


anyways...

My theory is this..I work with dogs ALOT... you don't just walk up to a dog and say "nice doggy, I am the boss"

You walk up to a big 130 pound rottweiler and it gets thrown up against the wall... if you are not the alpha.. it will be.. (and I had the bruises to prove it when I rescued my Male rottweiler and we had this struggle over will power)

Once I established my "role" as the lead alpha... he has been respectful and submissive to me ever since....

I would not garuntee that he would be nice to someone else... it took me about 12 months to gain his trust and break him....

I think I have more "dog" personality traits then human as I work with dogs and train them way more then I've ever worked with people....

If my Dom wants my submission, he has to prove his worth as my alpha, and if there's any signs of weakness I will challenge him for pack leadership.

 

[FurryFury]

You sound somewhat like my husband. Frankly I find the you have to totally Dom me or I'm not submitting thing tiresome and irritating.

As a sub, I like to submit. It's what I want to do for the person I respect and who I feel respects me.

I don't need a constant struggle nor do I want it, although resistance play can be fun from time to time.

I understand some Doms find the sort that you and my husband are, more fun and more challenging. I just don't get into that at all.

It doesn't seem very submissive to me. It seem bratty. It seems like a LOT more work for the Dom. As I am not a dom and dom-ing already seems like far too much work, it just tires me out to contemplate dealing with this at all.

Thankfully, my husband hasn't seemed to need to be Topped lately.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't want a man I can wrap around my little finger, but I don't know that it can really be called "submission" if you want to fight it and be forced and whatnot. I mean, I really don't know how you can say things like, "If I have my way, I don't care about his needs" and "I need him to MAKE me feel submissive" and still call it submitting. I'm a strong and independent woman myself, and I am not a slave, but it ain't submission if it's not unselfish and doesn't come from the heart, IMO. Anything else, to me, is just bratting and acting out for "punishment."

That's fine if that's what you're into, but I think you're confusing things. Most dominants who are looking for someone to submit to them aren't going to want to "force" or "break" someone. They want a submissive who generally wants to do the things they ask them to do, just because they want them to. Just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[SubKekiLee]

My signature says it all:
" Obedience is doing something because you have to do it-because someone told you to and you know it has to be done. But "true" obedience is doing it because you want to please the other person. When it's "true", your own feelings don't matter-you want to obey just to make the other person smile"

 

[SheDevilShay]

You sound somewhat like my husband. Frankly I find the you have to totally Dom me or I'm not submitting thing tiresome and irritating.

As a sub, I like to submit. It's what I want to do for the person I respect and who I feel respects me.

I don't need a constant struggle nor do I want it, although resistance play can be fun from time to time.

I understand some Doms find the sort that you and my husband are, more fun and more challenging. I just don't get into that at all.

It doesn't seem very submissive to me. It seem bratty. It seems like a LOT more work for the Dom. As I am not a dom and dom-ing already seems like far too much work, it just tires me out to contemplate dealing with this at all.

Thankfully, my husband hasn't seemed to need to be Topped lately.

See, I do want to please him, but I will not want to please a weak person... not that I think my dom is weak, but as we have just established ground rules "outside" of the bedroom he has not yet had time to prove his alphaness and i've had run of the house hold for the last year and a half it will not be an easy transition for me....

If he wants me to obey and WANT to comply, I feel like I need him to be my alpha, and prove it.. and part of that is very animalistic for me.

 

[BiBunny]

Maybe not humiliated... i.e. him forcing me to pee on the sidewalk...(haha that probably wouldn't do it for me, actaully i don't think it would even bother me..)


anyways...

My theory is this..I work with dogs ALOT... you don't just walk up to a dog and say "nice doggy, I am the boss"

You walk up to a big 130 pound rottweiler and it gets thrown up against the wall... if you are not the alpha.. it will be.. (and I had the bruises to prove it when I rescued my Male rottweiler and we had this struggle over will power)

Once I established my "role" as the lead alpha... he has been respectful and submissive to me ever since....

I would not garuntee that he would be nice to someone else... it took me about 2 months to gain his trust and break him....

I think I have more "dog" personality traits then human as I work with dogs and train them way more then I've ever worked with people....

If my Dom wants my submission, he has to prove his worth as my alpha, and if there's any signs of weakness I will challenge him for pack leadership.

Ok, I just had to address this. I work with horses, which are bigger, stronger, and potentially more dangerous than dogs. I think horses are a much better analogy as far as submission goes. Unless they are truly mean (which hardly ever happens), they learn to accept me as their "alpha" because I treat them kindly and fairly.

You can't sling a 1,300 pound horse against the wall to prove your dominance. You set boundaries for them. If they cross those boundaries, they are corrected quickly and firmly, and it's over. You don't hold grudges, and you damn sure don't pick fights with something that's that much stronger than you are to "prove" you're the "alpha." Going around trying to "prove" your dominance is a damn good way to get hurt with a horse. They only fight when cornered. You never put them or yourself in a position where you have to fight. You simply always have the upper hand.

In a fight with a horse, someone will be broken. If it's the horse who's broken (body-wise or spirit-wise), you will never have the real partnership that it takes to really accomplish something with a horse. If it's the person who's broken, you've just created a horse-monster because it will always believe it can fight and win, and unless you can find a trainer brave enough to iron out those issues, that horse is doomed to a life of neglect and abuse that will probably terminate with it heading out on a slaughter truck. *Shrug*

I don't know. I could be wrong, but I see D/s as a partnership, not unlike that I have with my horses. Once again, I think you may really need to think about what submission means.

 

[intothewoods]

Oy, between the horses and the dogs, I'm confused!

I guess I don't know the whole story. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to submit to a certain type of man. If it works for you, fine. If it's not working for you, that's another story...

 

[SheDevilShay]

Ok, I just had to address this. I work with horses, which are bigger, stronger, and potentially more dangerous than dogs. I think horses are a much better analogy as far as submission goes. Unless they are truly mean (which hardly ever happens), they learn to accept me as their "alpha" because I treat them kindly and fairly.

You can't sling a 1,300 pound horse against the wall to prove your dominance. You set boundaries for them. If they cross those boundaries, they are corrected quickly and firmly, and it's over. You don't hold grudges, and you damn sure don't pick fights with something that's that much stronger than you are to "prove" you're the "alpha." Going around trying to "prove" your dominance is a damn good way to get hurt with a horse. They only fight when cornered. You never put them or yourself in a position where you have to fight. You simply always have the upper hand.

In a fight with a horse, someone will be broken. If it's the horse who's broken (body-wise or spirit-wise), you will never have the real partnership that it takes to really accomplish something with a horse. If it's the person who's broken, you've just created a horse-monster because it will always believe it can fight and win, and unless you can find a trainer brave enough to iron out those issues, that horse is doomed to a life of neglect and abuse that will probably terminate with it heading out on a slaughter truck. *Shrug*

I don't know. I could be wrong, but I see D/s as a partnership, not unlike that I have with my horses. Once again, I think you may really need to think about what submission means.

I also had horses, the meanest thoroughbred you ever saw..

Do you know how he dominated my gelding? he bit him, he routinely kicked him and put him in his place....

If you are working with animals, they have to think they are going to die 00 you are smaller then they are, but they don't have concept of size.. they have to think you ARE bigger and meaner then they are and they respect the bounderies you set... before you "train" an animal, the roles, bounderies and rules have to be established, in order for many animals as head strong as I am... this will not work... if you are nice, you will get hurt or you will have a nasty mean horse who takes advantage of you and bites you when your backs turned and only does things on ITS terms...

My thoroughbred acted like a dog. the first time he snapped my bra I popped him on the nose... he never did it again. Respect has to be earned.


Edit, I would like to add, that in this thread I am not talking long term 2 years from now submission life styles, I am talking about the process of establishing roles, bounderies, rules and guidelines.. in order for me to respect my alpha, he needs to prove it to me as it hasn't been established in the last 2 years.


One other thing I'd like to ad is that horses are PREY animals.. (i.e. submissives) and dogs are preditors (i.e. doms...)

I am a dom being put into a submissive role. In order for me to accept that role, he has to be leader and then put me into the role he wants me. which isn't as simple as me "Accepting" it with out question.. that is not who I am... and what works for one person, doesnt' nessicarily work for another, I asked for like minded people to give me feed back.

 

[FurryFury]

Maybe not humiliated... i.e. him forcing me to pee on the sidewalk...(haha that probably wouldn't do it for me, actaully i don't think it would even bother me..)


anyways...

My theory is this..I work with dogs ALOT... you don't just walk up to a dog and say "nice doggy, I am the boss"

You walk up to a big 130 pound rottweiler and it gets thrown up against the wall... if you are not the alpha.. it will be.. (and I had the bruises to prove it when I rescued my Male rottweiler and we had this struggle over will power)

Once I established my "role" as the lead alpha... he has been respectful and submissive to me ever since....

I would not garuntee that he would be nice to someone else... it took me about 12 months to gain his trust and break him....

I think I have more "dog" personality traits then human as I work with dogs and train them way more then I've ever worked with people....

If my Dom wants my submission, he has to prove his worth as my alpha, and if there's any signs of weakness I will challenge him for pack leadership.

I see people more as cats than as dogs. Which means, cats are always testing the dominance situation. Dogs only do that if there is illness or a new perceived weakness. People and cats are more fluid than that.

I prefer not to have a submissive dog like person over whom I've show I'm an alpha in my intimate life.

I prefer to have a person who will be with me when and because they want to but can very happily go take care of their own shit and at times, be the leader in the relationship.

*purrs*

Frankly, although I wouldn't enjoy dealing with someone that wants what you want as an intimate, I'm not saying you are wrong and I'm right either.

The only things that really matter are these; does HE get it? Does he like it that way? Will he do what you want and be getting his jollies off of it? Do y'all fit each other in these areas?

 

[SheDevilShay]

I see people more as cats than as dogs. Which means, cats are always testing the dominance situation. Dogs only do that if there is illness or a new perceived weakness. People and cats are more fluid than that.

I prefer not to have a submissive dog like person over whom I've show I'm an alpha in my intimate life.

I prefer to have a person who will be with me when and because they want to but can very happily go take care of their own shit and at times, be the leader in the relationship.

*purrs*

Frankly, although I wouldn't enjoy dealing with someone that wants what you want as an intimate, I'm not saying you are wrong and I'm right either.

The only things that really matter are these; does HE get it? Does he like it that way? Will he do what you want and be getting his jollies off of it? Do y'all fit each other in these areas?

I am very cat like in my need for alone time, and he's clingy, he wants me to always want to be around him, which, here is why I said a dog anaology, the pack leader chooses the when and where. not the below pack leaders.. they do their own thing, but if the alpha says jump, they say... OKAY!

Yes, he's willing to do this, but he wants me to understand what I am asking of him since I don't understand my need for this, I just know I need it, I don't know why speficially I feel the way I do...*shrugs*

If he takes the control back, that I have had outside of the bedroom for the last 2 years, I will willingly submit to him with pleasure...

the problem I have, is an ingrained ability to say no, and do the oppisite of whatever I am told.. I am contrary like that and always HAVE been..

It would make this alot easier on BOTH of us in the long run, if he breaks me down. starts me fresh and builds me back up the way "he" wants me to be.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

See, I do want to please him, but I will not want to please a weak person... not that I think my dom is weak, but as we have just established ground rules "outside" of the bedroom he has not yet had time to prove his alphaness and i've had run of the house hold for the last year and a half it will not be an easy transition for me....

If he wants me to obey and WANT to comply, I feel like I need him to be my alpha, and prove it.. and part of that is very animalistic for me.

I know I may be wrong but reading your posts it sounds like you don't actually have a great deal of genuine respect for your guy.

I know that my Master is physically stronger than me and could beat me to a pulp if he chose to. Most men have that power over most women if they choose to abuse it so for us it's a moot issue. The animalistic side of me loves being treated roughly and if that's what he's in the mood for then I have to endure it to the limits of my physical and psychological health. But having said that, I don't push him. I respect him and submit in that he decides when we play and what kind of sex we have.

To say that you want to fight and refuse and push him until he hurts you is one thing but (unless he's really into non-consent play) what does that say to him? 'I don't respect you, I won't obey you and anything you want from me you'll have to take by force. What dominant man, who wants to be submitted to, is going to be happy with that? And even if he beats your ass raw and 'breaks' you, what happens then next time? Do you fight all over again?

If you truly believe you're submissive and you want a long term relationship with this guy I really can't see this working unless it's some kind of ritualistic one-off. I don't understand your motivation.

 

[BiBunny]

I also had horses, the meanest thoroughbred you ever saw..

Do you know how he dominated my gelding? he bit him, he routinely kicked him and put him in his place....

If you are working with animals, they have to think they are going to die 00 you are smaller then they are, but they don't have concept of size.. they have to think you ARE bigger and meaner then they are and they respect the bounderies you set... before you "train" an animal, the roles, bounderies and rules have to be established, in order for many animals as head strong as I am... this will not work... if you are nice, you will get hurt or you will have a nasty mean horse who takes advantage of you and bites you when your backs turned and only does things on ITS terms...

My thoroughbred acted like a dog. the first time he snapped my bra I popped him on the nose... he never did it again. Respect has to be earned.


Edit, I would like to add, that in this thread I am not talking long term 2 years from now submission life styles, I am talking about the process of establishing roles, bounderies, rules and guidelines.. in order for me to respect my alpha, he needs to prove it to me as it hasn't been established in the last 2 years.


One other thing I'd like to ad is that horses are PREY animals.. (i.e. submissives) and dogs are preditors (i.e. doms...)

I am a dom being put into a submissive role. In order for me to accept that role, he has to be leader and then put me into the role he wants me. which isn't as simple as me "Accepting" it with out question.. that is not who I am... and what works for one person, doesnt' nessicarily work for another, I asked for like minded people to give me feed back.

If you're a Domme being put into a submissive role, then why are you doing it? It makes no sense to me.

And, yes, I realize horses are prey animals, and therefore analogous to submissives. That's why I used a horse/person relationship in my example of a Dom/sub relationship.

There are very few people or animals who are mean from birth. They are made that way. I have shown and trained horses for 13 years. In that time, I have met exactly one who was truly mean. I had to beat my way out of his stall, but it was partly my own fault for putting myself in that position.

I still beg to differ that you have to "prove" yourself to a horse. You just never let him have the upper hand. They do NOT have to think they're going to die if they cross you. They have to respect that you have the upper hand, and as long as they know you will be consistent and fair, they will respect you. You may like having your animals afraid of you, but I do not. Animals, like submissives, perform better if they like and respect you and than if they are afraid of you.

Just the other day, my 3-year-old, who still likes to have her baby brain farts, didn't want to stand still in the cross-ties to have her ears clipped. She's had it done before and has stood still for it many times. It wasn't a fear reaction; it was a "let me see what I can get away with" reaction. Sure, I could've beaten her every time her eyelid twitched, gotten all up in her face, and threatened her, but I would have that problem every time I tried to clip her from then on because she WOULD have something to fear then. I quite simply put a twitch on her upper lip, spoke softly to her, and had no further problems whatsoever. The ears were clipped with no hard feelings from either party. When I finished, I took the twitch off and rubbed her nose. She "thanked" me for the cookie she got for standing still. Simple training philosophy. Don't fight. Just always have the upper hand.

As a Domme, I treat my submissives this way. As a sub, I expect to be treated this way. "Forcing" someone to submit is not gaining submission, IMO.

I'm finished with this discussion now.

 

[SheDevilShay]

I know I may be wrong but reading your posts it sounds like you don't actually have a great deal of genuine respect for your guy.

I know that my Master is physically stronger than me and could beat me to a pulp if he chose to. Most men have that power over most women if they choose to abuse it so for us it's a moot issue. The animalistic side of me loves being treated roughly and if that's what he's in the mood for then I have to endure it to the limits of my physical and psychological health. But having said that, I don't push him. I respect him and submit in that he decides when we play and what kind of sex we have.

To say that you want to fight and refuse and push him until he hurts you is one thing but (unless he's really into non-consent play) what does that say to him? 'I don't respect you, I won't obey you and anything you want from me you'll have to take by force. What dominant man, who wants to be submitted to, is going to be happy with that? And even if he beats your ass raw and 'breaks' you, what happens then next time? Do you fight all over again?

If you truly believe you're submissive and you want a long term relationship with this guy I really can't see this working unless it's some kind of ritualistic one-off. I don't understand your motivation.

I am not talking about physical.... this a mental excersice, and if you don't understand where I am coming from then you won't. so I am not going to continue to try and explain it... but it will work.

and I am married to this "guy"

 

[FurryFury]

I am very cat like in my need for alone time, and he's clingy, he wants me to always want to be around him, which, here is why I said a dog anaology, the pack leader chooses the when and where. not the below pack leaders.. they do their own thing, but if the alpha says jump, they say... OKAY!

Yes, he's willing to do this, but he wants me to understand what I am asking of him since I don't understand my need for this, I just know I need it, I don't know why speficially I feel the way I do...*shrugs*

If he takes the control back, that I have had outside of the bedroom for the last 2 years, I will willingly submit to him with pleasure...

the problem I have, is an ingrained ability to say no, and do the oppisite of whatever I am told.. I am contrary like that and always HAVE been..

It would make this alot easier on BOTH of us in the long run, if he breaks me down. starts me fresh and builds me back up the way "he" wants me to be.

I see what you mean a bit, anyway.

There are things my husband wants me to do that just make my stomach clench because they go so far against MY grain.

I've found that he won't do the Alpha thing on me. I have to tame that for myself. I have to make myself do what I do for him despite my extreme discomfort. I have to break myself down and build myself up to do it, yanno what I mean? And then he may or may not notice but that's okay, because I know. I know I did it for him to make his life smoother even if he never notices.

Now I have to run.

I have a job to do.

Y'all play nice now







or not.

*chuckles*

 

[SheDevilShay]

here's a different way to look at what I was attempting to protray.

My dom has requested me to be nice and play in my role, which means helping curb my own dom tedencies...

He is willing to break me... as its the only way to help me relearn all my traits...

As a dom personality, the only way for him to do that is to break me, rub them all out, and retrain me into the role he wants me in...

If any of my dom personality stays, I cannot be a true submissive, and I am aware of this... I think, that if you can't see "both" sides of the story, you cannot relate... which is why I asked for people who felt the same way I did. or who had gone through the role reversal like I am attempting to do.

 

[Netzach]

Domme perspective?

I'm sure there's a lid for your pot, honey, but it would not be me.

I don't entertain people who come with me with ANY amount of "you have to do this..." The minute you bring that into the bargain I'm not the Domme. You are. I don't play that.

If your husband is wired the way I am, you're not going to get what you want from him, or if you do it's going to be as a favor and as a gesture to *you* which you're going to resent because you will know in the back of your mind that he would not be doing it if you hadn't given him the ultimatum "do it like this or I can't respect you." That's a pretty intense ultimatum.

 

[WriterDom]

Not my cup of tea. I understand there might be a little testing in the beginning but to break a Domme into submission sounds about as much fun as trying to put an egg back together that fell on the floor.

 

[SheDevilShay]

Domme perspective?

I'm sure there's a lid for your pot, honey, but it would not be me.

I don't entertain people who come with me with ANY amount of "you have to do this..." The minute you bring that into the bargain I'm not the Domme. You are. I don't play that.

If your husband is wired the way I am, you're not going to get what you want from him, or if you do it's going to be as a favor and as a gesture to *you* which you're going to resent because you will know in the back of your mind that he would not be doing it if you hadn't given him the ultimatum "do it like this or I can't respect you." That's a pretty intense ultimatum.

LOve and respect are 2 totally different things, but let me rephrase what I mean because i've spent alot of time pondering on this....

Part of breaking me down and building me back up is a trust excersice. It helps me relearn my identity, of my new self... and help build the trust we will need long term...

I don't nessicarily phrase things the way you guys do, I am new to this world of actaully "talking" about this out loud, rather then just thinking about it.

Alot of figuring things out for me, isn't so much even the feed back I get, as just me... talking, figuring it out.. talking... seeing what people have to say.. see waht I relate to, what applies or doesn't apply to me... and going from there...

I figure stuff out best by reading/typing.. not talking out loud.. so most of this is for my dom's email I will send him to explain how I feel and exactly "what" I mean. He is giving me my space right now to accept the new role, if I sound uppity, or extreme its because im going under a role reversal and its new to me and I am not used to it... its also going to be a (hopefully) long term change.

This isn't about punishment/physical to me... this all mental.

 

[Netzach]

Looking back at the animal analogies, it's no wonder I don't relate. I'm not dog, horse or cat, but unicorn.

Someone sat long enough and still enough in the woods, a person whose heart I perceived is pure, so I went over and put my head in his lap and let him put a collar around me.

 

[SheDevilShay]

Looking back at the animal analogies, it's no wonder I don't relate. I'm not dog, horse or cat, but unicorn.

Someone sat long enough and still enough in the woods, a person whose heart I perceived is pure, so I went over and put my head in his lap and let him put a collar around me.

That is a very good analogy.

My main issue's with this are my own insecurities and fear abotu submission and udnerstanding exactly what they are... that is why I kindly asked him if we could do some more extreme trust excersices.... because I felt they might help me and I think I need to be extreme before I can settle in a more normal pattern....

I need to know how far he can push me, and vice versa.. I want to see how far *I* can be pushed and how far he would take me...

To me.. I guess it really comes down to needing specific things and not knowing how to "phrase" them... but the more I think about them, the more detail and "stuff" I figure out...

I feel that I would allow him to collar me, because it would please him to do so... it would also please me as a constant reminder of my place, and I need that kind of consistanty, structure, and routine. I would LIKE if he'd consider picking my clothes out every day, telling me how he wants me to wear my hair and I want to know my rules and bounderies... we are having to trash everything we've done for the last 2 years and completely start over from scratch...

this is not a "Game" to us this is trying to make this a more everyday way of life... Is it for him? I don't know, I know that doing this will give me the ultimate satisfication in my life... and I would hope, that my desire to keep him happy and please him comes along with it.. its there... hidden under all my fears and insecurities. but I know its there, and he knows its there.


Essentially, I need to feel powerless, to let go of my fears to realize its all going to be okay in the long run... It took me 9 months to build up the courage to request this lifestyle outside of the bedroom. Bear with me while I learn.

 

[CutieMouse]

SDS, this last post you made had the closest thing to maturity behind it that I've seen from you (so far).

You keep talking about what *you* want, but don't seem to know if his desires (micro-mamagement, etc) are the same as your's. What you are asking/expecting of him to do, is (frankly) a demanding and exhausting form of D/s, in which the submissive-type gets one hell of a lot of attention, and the Dominant-type gets all the hard work and stress. It work's great in erotica/porn/fantasy land, but it's pretty freaking hard to pull off in real life... pretty convenient actually, as his failure to live up to the expectations means you can claim he's unable to "break you". I recognize you are working through submission in the here and now, rather than from the 2 years down the road standpoint, but it doesn't make people's arguments that submission is about him, not you, any less valid. I still recommend you take a step back, do some serious study, communicate a lot, and let things evolve, rather than force it.

As an aside:

Using one's experience with unmedicated childbirth as a proclimation of one's tough masochistic abilities is a weak argument, and does a great disservice to those women who choose unmedicated birth for the health and safety of their unborn child, not as a badge of honor.

 

[Netzach]

That is a very good analogy.

My main issue's with this are my own insecurities and fear abotu submission and udnerstanding exactly what they are... that is why I kindly asked him if we could do some more extreme trust excersices.... because I felt they might help me and I think I need to be extreme before I can settle in a more normal pattern....

I need to know how far he can push me, and vice versa.. I want to see how far *I* can be pushed and how far he would take me...

To me.. I guess it really comes down to needing specific things and not knowing how to "phrase" them... but the more I think about them, the more detail and "stuff" I figure out...

I feel that I would allow him to collar me, because it would please him to do so... it would also please me as a constant reminder of my place, and I need that kind of consistanty, structure, and routine. I would LIKE if he'd consider picking my clothes out every day, telling me how he wants me to wear my hair and I want to know my rules and bounderies... we are having to trash everything we've done for the last 2 years and completely start over from scratch...

this is not a "Game" to us this is trying to make this a more everyday way of life... Is it for him? I don't know, I know that doing this will give me the ultimate satisfication in my life... and I would hope, that my desire to keep him happy and please him comes along with it.. its there... hidden under all my fears and insecurities. but I know its there, and he knows its there.


Essentially, I need to feel powerless, to let go of my fears to realize its all going to be okay in the long run... It took me 9 months to build up the courage to request this lifestyle outside of the bedroom. Bear with me while I learn.

See, I also don't understand the need to slash and burn. The only difference in how we do anything at all is that I'm viewing what we do through a new filter: "is this how he likes it?" I don't need to have my Dominant self tamped down, because it can't be. It's just not what I'm doing at the moment. As politically incorrect as this may be, I believe that if someone's really a Dominant or a switch inclined Dominant, there's nothing you can do to change that whatsoever, the only thing you can do is create a context where that's not what you are doing with that person or not what you are doing at that time. A Dominant switch will eventually NEED to be dominant with someone somewhere. Or else they're really not.


We still do all the same old shit - sit down, drink chardonnay, listen to him complain for a duration. The difference is that HE sets the duration, I let the conversation aim around what he wants to talk about. I'm more apt to listen and more sensitive.

He never tells me what to wear, but I certainly note, file and remember. Panties? Dislikes cotton, lace, or T backs, likes retro and fullback briefs in soft sheer or satin. So I know what to wear then, no one has to tell me twice. I know how he likes the hair on my body shaved, I know what he likes to order when we go out and if I'm there first I order it. I can tell when he's amenable to a deep conversation about feeeeelings and when he wants to talk about stupid TV comedy, and if I want to do one and he wants to do the other, it's no mystery as to who backs off and waits. I get my air time and my needs met.

It's less like slavery and more like religion. Crusaders didn't torture it out of me, I just saw a certain beauty, and a certain authority, decided I wanted to believe.