Submissives and Self-Esteem?

[pink_ivory]

So, as I'm exploring my own preferences and learning about this lifestyle, there are a few related questions that have come up. These questions are geared toward declared SUBS. If you're a slave, master, or dominant (or whatever else is out there) feel free to answer-- just please indicate that you aren't a sub in your post.

How do submissives value themselves? (do you take pride in yourself? look well upon yourself? etc.)
Is the value you place on yourself entirely/partially dependent on the opinion of your dominant? (e.g. if they are upset, does your self-esteem plummet?)
If valuing yourself highly is dependent, do you think it affects you more because of the nature of your relationship?
Would you say you have good self-esteem?
Does your BDSM lifestyle impact your self-esteem or are you able to keep the two separated?

These questions arise for two reasons:
1) I understand that degradation/humiliation is an active part of some Sub/Dom relationships.
2) I think (but this could be incorrect) that submissives pride themselves on pleasing their dominant... but this could be more of an overlap between slave/master and sub/dom.

Just a disclaimer: I really am not aiming to offend anyone with these questions. I'm not assuming/implying anything.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[VladHarkonnen]

My self esteem and my desire to submit to a woman are two entirely separate things. In my life outside of a relationship I'm not submissive and my opinion of myself is the one that counts the most. But that said, everyone's different. Some subs do have self esteem issues and their desire to be subservient could be a manifestation of that. But then again you could say the same of some doms.

 

[knot_sweet]

So, as I'm exploring my own preferences and learning about this lifestyle, there are a few related questions that have come up. These questions are geared toward declared SUBS. If you're a slave, master, or dominant (or whatever else is out there) feel free to answer-- just please indicate that you aren't a sub in your post.

How do submissives value themselves? (do you take pride in yourself? look well upon yourself? etc.)
Is the value you place on yourself entirely/partially dependent on the opinion of your dominant? (e.g. if they are upset, does your self-esteem plummet?)
If valuing yourself highly is dependent, do you think it affects you more because of the nature of your relationship?
Would you say you have good self-esteem?
Does your BDSM lifestyle impact your self-esteem or are you able to keep the two separated?

These questions arise for two reasons:
1) I understand that degradation/humiliation is an active part of some Sub/Dom relationships.
2) I think (but this could be incorrect) that submissives pride themselves on pleasing their dominant... but this could be more of an overlap between slave/master and sub/dom.

Just a disclaimer: I really am not aiming to offend anyone with these questions. I'm not assuming/implying anything.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

These responses are my own personal opinion and therefore to be taken lightly.

I value myself, rarely my appearance. I don't place a great deal of importance on how I look, because if I did, I'd be permanently depressed. I have many outstanding qualities. My charm, wit, or looks are not any of them.

My worth to a dominant is dependent on both my own self worth and on his satisfaction with my submission. If he is unhappy with my service, my libido takes a kicking.

That said, my self esteem is not dependent at all on his opinion of me. Especially outside the pre agreed parameters of the D/s part of the relationship.

I don't indulge in humiliation or degredation play. This is a hang over from a long term abusive relationship. That said, there are some things others find humiliating or degrading that just don't bother me. Being made to urinate on yourself, in front of others or in public just doesn't phase me. Eating out of a bowl on the floor without hands wouldn't bother me either. Call me a stupid worthless nothing and I'll dry up like jerky. Slap my face or spit on me and you'd better run. It's impossible to get a reaction other than "so?" if you attempt to insult my appearance.

I think the most important thing for me is that if I don't value myself, know my own worth, then what exactly do I have to offer a dominant?? If I think nothing of myself, then I am giving nothing of value when I submit.

Again, this is just from my perspective. Other people will have much different perspectives as self esteem is a very personal, individual, sometimes fragile thing.

 

[LittleSparks]

I would say that I have very good self-esteem, and I don't really associate it with my D/s relationship at all. My self-esteem within the relationship is only dependent on master in as far as my highest goal is to please him. But I think this is the same even in vanilla romantic relationships. If your partner shows displeasure at everything you do and you care about their opinion, then you are likely to develop low self-esteem. This is where good communication and aftercare come into play for master and I. If I am not pleasing master in the right way or otherwise disobey him for some reason, he lets me know in a firm way to correct my actions. However, this does not effect my self-esteem, and with the exception of humiliation/degradation play (with the really great aftercare he is careful to provide), I think he would rather cut his own arm off than do anything to really damage my self esteem.

It's very important for a sub to know that their self-worth is not tied to their D/s relationship. A sub's self worth is self-applied in the sense that they have chosen to give themselves over to another person. But in the case of feeling uncomfortable in their D/s relationship or having an abusive dom, they should be able to regain control and free themselves of the situation. And if they value themselves outside of the relationship, then it's possible for them to do so.

But anyway, that's all from my own personal experience. I'll just put a little note right here that I know it's different for everyone, and that this is just how I see things.

 

[LallyH]

So, as I'm exploring my own preferences and learning about this lifestyle, there are a few related questions that have come up. These questions are geared toward declared SUBS. If you're a slave, master, or dominant (or whatever else is out there) feel free to answer-- just please indicate that you aren't a sub in your post.

How do submissives value themselves? (do you take pride in yourself? look well upon yourself? etc.)
Is the value you place on yourself entirely/partially dependent on the opinion of your dominant? (e.g. if they are upset, does your self-esteem plummet?)
If valuing yourself highly is dependent, do you think it affects you more because of the nature of your relationship?
Would you say you have good self-esteem?
Does your BDSM lifestyle impact your self-esteem or are you able to keep the two separated?

These questions arise for two reasons:
1) I understand that degradation/humiliation is an active part of some Sub/Dom relationships.
2) I think (but this could be incorrect) that submissives pride themselves on pleasing their dominant... but this could be more of an overlap between slave/master and sub/dom.

Just a disclaimer: I really am not aiming to offend anyone with these questions. I'm not assuming/implying anything.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

My self-esteem and lifestyle are very closely linked - the deeper my submission has become, the more confidence I have had in the rest of my every day life.

My Dom husband loves to see me hold my head high, look people in the eye, exude self-confidence, and overcome my natural reserve in order to run my company more successfully and enjoy interacting with new clients. He expects me to be as proud of myself as he is of me, and that is a rule within our particular relationship. So my increased self-esteem is a way of pleasing him, so conversely if I'm not confident, I am letting him down.

I also feel that being humiliated, certainly physically as I have no experience of verbal humiliation, has increased my ease with my body. If we have low physical self esteem, it is generally because we think we are not beautiful and attractive, our breasts are too small or our asses are too big. Being exposed and displayed, having to kneel on the floor with my ass in the air etc, gets rid of all that. My Dom can see me at every angle, he tells me how proud he is of me and my ability to submit completely to his every command.

 

[KoPilot]

I've worked damn hard to get my self-esteem where it is today, and I'll be damned (sometimes I am) if I let a partner dictate that.

That said, I do feel particularly good when we both feel good about ourselves and our relationship. And when we're both getting what we want/need out of things.

Sometimes I can't take my own advice though, and let my depression or my paranoia win. Yes, sometimes I do get overwhelmed by the feeling of him conspiring against me for personal gain, but... that's mental illness, which is a wholly different beast.

Most of the time, though, if I feel like I'm not good enough or not worthy or whatever, then it's more of a... contextual thing. Like "I'm not good at this" or "I don't deserve that". I've never felt like my intrinsic worth was being compromised or whatever.

 

[fed0ra]

My two cents, for what they are worth...

Self esteem depends on various factors. The most important is you.

Next is your Dom (or sub, partner, whatever)

After that, other personal relationships. With your children, parents, siblings, friends, those close to you.

Work.


I guess the third and the fourth items, the rest of it, the order could change, depending on you.

The bulk of the responsibility lies with you. Your self esteem comes from your own self. You as a person. What do you think of yourself? Your views, and feelings about yourself. In a D/s relationship it isn't any different. Are you being true to yourself? Happy with your life, your relationships? It's directly linked with how you see yourself and your life. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be considered successful. Or a Dominant. Just be true to yourself. A sub or a slave trying to be Dominant will have low self esteem because she won't be happy. She won't be happy in a vanilla relationship either.

Thinking that a submissive or a slave is all 'giving' is a misconception. In her (or his) 'giving' lies the taking. ( I hope any Dominant reading this will pitching here). But moving on to self-esteem, yes, his opinion, his views matter. They matter a whole lot. Does she please him? Door mats are not pleasing, btw. (Doormats for people who think they are Doms and need 'subs' who are seen, not heard.) As your Dom's most valuable property, he will look after you. Treasure you. (Yes, pain, humiliation, all aspects of your bdsm relationship are part of treasuring you). Crushing your self esteem doesn't serve his purpose. Your D/s relationship isn't just about sex or about one being superior to the other being inferior.

Self esteem in a D/s relationship isn't very different from any other healthy relationship. The basics are the same. But there are a lot more misconceptions about a D/s relationship. The main one being people tend to see a sub as a doormat and a Dominant as a bully. Or people think its not correct, unhealthy, whatever... Once you accept that no it is normal. It is what you are and no, the Dominant in the relationship isn't taking advantage of you, you can move on with life. Low self esteem in D/s comes from not understanding what D/s is all about. In a D/s relationship both are giving exactly what they can give. What they need to give. And taking what they need.

Like in any relationship, communication is very important. It does wonders to building self esteem too.

 

[Salenku]

I'm a pretty confident person. I kick asses at work, I'm generally bubbly and outgoing, I have the occasional quick-witted reply, and I can certainly stand up for myself. I don't feel a general need to please people, and I'm anything but submissive in my everyday life. I'd even go so far as to say I COULDN'T be submissive in my everyday life. But yes, Sir's opinion of me matters very much.

Away from everybody else, I am rather different. Perhaps it's because I feel safe enough to be imperfect or insecure, or perhaps it's just because his opinion of me is so important, but I feel simply awful if I feel I've let him down in any way. Often these things are in my head (see thread 'feeling unwanted'), for one reason or another.

Whatever the reason, he seems to make me feel better somehow, even if it does take time, or even if I'm being so irrational I misunderstand his words. I know he doesn't want a doormat for a lover and he would be terribly disappointed if I were ever to behave as such. I'd even go so far as to say he quite likes knowing that im perfectly independent and rather capable at running my own life. I'd suspect that makes my submission more worth having. He's never spelled it out, but I'll ask him.

To answer your questions, yes degradation can be a big part of things, but we joke that this is impossible with us. Apparently I have no shame, and this makes degradation impossible. The things he asks me to do just don't generally elicit a negative reaction from me. Probably says more about me than him, but hey-ho. So I'm afraid I can't comment on this with any authority.

I absolutely want to please him, and I feel a need to do so. But the more I think about it, I suspect any failure on my part to do so feels so bad because I'm disappointing myself probably more than him. He knows I'm not perfect, but I seem to set the bar pretty high for myself. When I feel this way, he takes the time to make me understand that I haven't let him down, and he truly has the patience of a saint in this regard.

I hope you find the answers you're looking for, I've found the people who post here to be generally very open, helpful and supportive.

 

[welkin]

I agree with others that much of this is similar to a vanilla relationship -- i.e. you want to make the other person happy and you'd feel hurt if they aren't being appreciative. Whether you'd let an abusive partner affect your self-esteem probably doesn't depend on whether the relationship is kinky.

That said, if anything, my self-esteem has increased through humiliation/degradation play. I use the experience as a way to confront my fears in a controlled setting. Unfortunately this also means that much like Salenku above, I'm finding fewer and fewer things that can humiliate me now.

 

[Kim_Burly]

A quote I like to think of is "Being humble doesn't mean thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less". Submitting to Sir is my choice and it makes me happy. As has already been stated the humiliation that we both love so much deepens our relationship and makes me more confident. I am not an overly assertive person in real life, nor am I a timid, shrinking violet. I know I have issues, but socially, I feel I am well adjusted.

Whenever I have talked honestly to "counselors" they immediately assume I have low self esteem and then they begin digging for the root cause, i.e. daddy issues and/or abuse. My father wasn't perfect, what man is? He certainly never abused me! I had one shrink told me I was repressing the abuse . That is one of the reasons I am not a big fan of psychologists and psychiatrists.

 

[pink_ivory]

Wow, thank you all for such detailed feedback!

 

[Middlemist]

How do submissives value themselves?
I take very good care of my body and I feel proud of myself when I look in the mirror. I put a lot of effort into looking good for my master. I rarely wear make up because I don't want to damage or irritate my skin. All of my perfumes are very expensive and I know I have good taste when it comes to clothing.
Is the value you place on yourself entirely/partially dependent on the opinion of your dominant?
I feel very close to my partner, so his opinion is very important to me. I wouldn't wear something I know he dislikes. I wouldn't speak out of place or give him a reason to talk down on me apart from the bedroom.
If valuing yourself highly is dependent, do you think it affects you more because of the nature of your relationship?
I don't know, it might be true. I put a lot of effort into perfecting how I look. If my dominant would abandon me I'd be crushed, but if he simply wants me to change something about myself then I'm at his whim.
Would you say you have good self-esteem?
Yes, I'm very confident outside being a sub.
Does your BDSM lifestyle impact your self-esteem or are you able to keep the two separated?
I don't keep the two separated really, but at the same time I don't think it impacts my self esteem. I'm happy knowing I can please all of my masters demands. If he were to wrong me then I have no place with him.

 

[LeatherChainsPunk]

I'm a switch myself, and I think that to truly submit one needs a strong personality (with self-esteem). js.