Submission without L-O-V-E

[Krinaia]

I'm glad that my thoughts are making others feel and think...

I'm truly thinking about writing... exploring this theme in a story or series of stories as I think it would take a long story to explore all my feelings on this... perhaps I can write a book and pay off my student loans... lol... nice dream!

Oh and what song is that and who buy? It sounds very familiar!

 

[SweetDommes]

And ask you this - do you fall in love first and then submit? Or do you submit and fall in love?

For us, it kinda happened simultaniously (sp?). We fell for our boy about the same time we started dominating him, and vice verce. For us, we require at least friendship with the boy before we are comfortable dominating him - and because love starts with friendship (or should, in our opinion) we are hoping that we will love our future boys and they will love us back.

 

[Saint_Sinner]

I have been in the situation that I loved but could not Dom and Dom'd, but could not love. The first was unbearable and personally destructive, the second was interesting and a learning experience at best, unfulfilling and lackluster at it's worst. I feel that this second instance may have been better if there wasn't a pretense of trying to "fall in love" from both people, because the end result was that we both were left with some feeling of failure. But, the fault there was a lack of open communication. Personally, I have little interest in a D/s relationship without love other than for the purpose of learning and honing my skills, and even that would have to be under certain guidelines. Besides, in my opinion, on order to truly experience any progress in a true power exchange, time constraints would certainly exceed any casual D/s relationship.

 

[stephb]

For Sir and I, it started as love and blossomed more and more as we explored the lifestyle. I learned to love him more in my submission. There is a distinct difference that I feel between vanilla relationships that I've had and this one...a deepening of feeling. It still amazes me how much I love this man who I call Master as well as lover and friend.

I can submit without love, but the submission wouldn't have anywhere near the depth of feeling that I have with Sir.

 

[Etoile]

I fell in love with Daddy before e fell in love with me. Our relationship was D/s right from the start, so there was no opportunity for love-before-submission. I think that when we started, I was merely infatuated with em...e was new and exciting, and the D/s in our relationship was also new and thrilling. (I'd been somewhat submissive previously, but not full-time like I was with Daddy.) The love came later, and as I said it was I who fell in love first, for a few reasons. First, it's easier for me than for Daddy. E's more independent (has lived alone in a big city for many years, and is content by emself), and doesn't feel that e needs someone to love em. So for a while my love was not reciprocated, but because I felt it deeply I didn't care. Over time, I was able to draw out Daddy's love. It came to be something I felt I needed to hear about...I had the feeling Daddy loved me, but I wanted proof, so I asked for it. Now e is more willing to say "I love you" without being asked to say it (and I can tell in eir voice that e means it), though e thinks it's sweet that I beg to hear it all the time because I love em so much. Our relationship is still firmly founded on D/s, but we have allowed it to develop into love for each other beyond that affectionate caring.

 

[lark sparrow]

Well, okay I am far past my first kiss or exploration but...

Difficult topic. Most if not all, people want to be loved and love at some level with someone... but there can be a surrender in being in love, being a pleaser, that can be fatal on the wrong side.... not impossible, but semi-treacherous at times. I suppose it all depends on what is needed. I am still a believer in that possibility, but I cannot say I have experienced it in the long run. When the tables turn, they turn.... and so do I. I don't know... is that entirely unhumanistic and unrealistic? lol It's a huge enigma... no love is unfulfilling, too much being "in love" can just be vanilla with a tickle and slap. I'm looking for this answer myself.

 

[stephb]

Here is a question that kind of goes with this:

Does being in love with your partner make your submission to that person mean more to you?

For me it does. Knowing that we have that deep emotional connection is mindblowing at times.

 

[lark sparrow]

And..

Does being in love with your partner make your Domination to that person mean more to you?

And do you weaken in your Domination?

 

[ownedsubgal]

i submitted to Daddy before we fell in love with each other. my submission came naturally, instinctively and immediately. that was just my nature. but the love had to take root and blossom, so that came quite a bit later.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

just thought i'd throw in my two cents-i need love, like the LL cool J song Domination without love would never satisfy me for long. it might satisfy me to a certain degree, but i need that emotional connection. for me it makes everything more intense..and i could go much deeper in my submission to a man i loved.

 

[ethereal~minx]

And..

Does being in love with your partner make your Domination to that person mean more to you?

And do you weaken in your Domination?

this to me is where the Dominant's strength is tested~~ to allow for the submissive's needs for growth, and so for your own

 

[Krinaia]

just thought i'd throw in my two cents-i need love, like the LL cool J song Domination without love would never satisfy me for long. it might satisfy me to a certain degree, but i need that emotional connection. for me it makes everything more intense..and i could go much deeper in my submission to a man i loved.

I'd be interesting in knowing... those of you who gave this answer... are any of you masochists? If you say you need love and would be unhappy with out it - well you might purposely or unpurposely be more likely to get into just such a relationship if you were a masochist.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

OK

This is going to be a two part answer, for BOTH sides of me.

As a Dominant, I can not take control of a person's wants, needs, their hopes and fears..without at least being a little in love with the person. My Dominance comes from that place that needs to cater, to caress, to hurt and heal, to take care of my pet. I have to love them to give them my all.

The submissive does not need to love me back, as long as they like, trust and respect me. I am there for them. They are there to serve me. Their love is not needed in that case.

As for MY submission. Love is not a requirement. Respect and mutual liking IS. As an active masochist, it's more important (to me) that the Person be able to provide the things I need: pain, humiliation, degradation. Yes after care requires that the person be tender and capable..but neither of those things equal LOVE.

I hope I explained this well...I will think on this some more and add if and when I think of something new.

Pet

 

[ethereal~minx]

I see a difference between masochism & submission


I think my mindfnck is very much a masochist
and a deliciously sadistic dom

I am very much a submissive that is exquisitely sensitive to other people, especially those very very close

I know the power inside of me~ because of his dominance, I know more of who I am and what I like, what I want~ what I see... what he likes, what he wants, what he feels...where he wants to go----

this is where a power exchange can happen, this delicate new world ...this place that I'm not sure we're in, that I think he's leading me to but *throwing hands up* I don't know, he's been leading me... this is new... (sorry for the mini tantrum)

ok, I want this : )

 

[Krinaia]

I see a difference between masochism & submission

I know they aren't the same nor does being a submissive mean you're a masochist...

That's why I asked... just to make sure we're clear on that




It's just that sometimes I think I'm submissive and masochistic. And sometimes its hard to differentiate between those things I want, those things I don't want so that it will hurt, and those things I do want that will hurt. I want to be loved. But do I want to be unloved so that I can feel the equisite pain of being unloved by the one I love? Do I want him to love me so I can feel the equisite guilt of not being able to return it? Do I want him to love me as much I love him so I can feel the pain and fear of such love?

 

[Howling_Ire]

i think i any kind of sexual incounter a certian level of...lets say affection is needed. yes giving yourself over to someone is greatly augmented by the intensity that comes from a strong bond with someone ie love. but i've found in the past that it's not always nessicary..i can make wild hot woopie just as well and intensly with someone i don't want to spend the rest of my life with, as well asi can the man who sleeps next to me.

it is more personal, and i give more of my "self" to a person who i care about. but i think i can give of my body and passion to pretty much the same extent..if that makes any sence?

i also don't believe thier is one white hot love for every human..i thinkt hier are different levels of burning and cooling. i know who i want to have more cats and ahouse with, iknow who i want to cook for and care about, even if he isn' the only person i share my body or my love with for the rest of my life.

part of this is why both of us have an open relationship and are willing to invite others into what we have. probably eventualy full time..i think i some ways this care for others shows us more about ourselves..plus comeing home to share the warm glowyness of some good sex, and maybe even somre more sex with eachtoher isnt' half bad.

i hope this makes some modicrome of sence. but i can see why you would feel like you give your all to the man you love, because he's thier for your all..and if he's the right one will constantly renew your intrest/love/passion for him. where as someone you aren't planning on spending your life nessicarly will be treated as temporary. with you perhaps trepidatious and scared to share all of the essence that is you, because it will be taken away and not returned...

sorry if this is rambleing..long day at work...

 

[sigsauerprinces]

I'd be interesting in knowing... those of you who gave this answer... are any of you masochists? If you say you need love and would be unhappy with out it - well you might purposely or unpurposely be more likely to get into just such a relationship if you were a masochist.

heh..funny you should say that. yes, ive been known to do that-start liking someone way more than they ever like me-and i know that-and still like them. and they like that i like that they dont like me as much as i like them. say THAT five times fast

even tho i like that tho, for long term i need to be with a guy who i know loves me. but yes, there is a big part of me who is drawn to the type of guy who likes me, but doesnt have as strong feelings for me as i have for him. the feeling that gives me..needing and not getting it-for some reason i crave that.

 

[stephb]

I suppose I can agree that submission, for me, is possible without love. The subspace that I enter when with the dominant, though, would be different if I loved them versus if I just liked and respected him/her. It wouldn't be as deep nor as gratifying to me. The dominant doesn't really have to love me, but I have to love, or at the very least respect, him/her to get into that space. It's all a matter of degrees.

This being said, there is NO way that I could submit to someone that I didn't respect. That is just me. Probably my almost-switchy nature coming out to play. Do other submissives see this in themselves or is it just me?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I thiink for me I had had enough of trying to satisfy masochistic desires by being with people either I didn't love or they didn't love me. I learnt through trial and error and the ever increasing feel a vital need for survival was not being met, and that was when I decided to seriously, and without pause, to go out and find the one who could give me all I needed, not just a sniff of the oily rag.

I made the decision to explore my masochistic side while on my journey, but could never envisage submitting completely or for real to someone I did not share love with. I played with some wonderful men, but that was all it was, sporadic play and exploration while my search continued. I reserved my submission for my one, and accepted if I never found them that would be sad, but also acceptd as that is just who I am. I tend to be into absolutes in many things, and if I make a decision to do something, I usually throw my whole heart and soul into it.

I wanted my submission to feel real to me, to have the newness in preference to feeling 'here we go again, wonder how this one will go, wonder if he will do x, y, and z or if he expects a, b, or c'. I had already had enough of that in the vanilla world. I just could not see how I could submit, then somewhere down the line submit again to another, then another, and so on...it was and is not who I am. For me I submit to one, with love, and deep commitment. I realise it is not for everyone, but for me it is the only way I felt I could approach it and maintain my authenticity for myself.

Catalina

 

[stephb]

I find it so hard to explain exactly how I feel about this. My feelings are still scrambled due to the fact that this is so new. The feeling has been there for years, and yet the words to actually DESCRIBE the feeling haven't come.

I am a masochist. I am in what would be considered a very loving long distance relationship right now with no chance for RL play due to distance. I am faithful to Sir regardless of this and will be until we meet this year. We've been in said loving relationship for one and a half years, both faithful the entire time.

Here I'd like to note that I said to myself I'd never fall for someone far away from me again. He is in Australia and I'm here in the States. Being the sensualist that I am, this is very hard for me. Not having the physical is almost painful in a way.

This brings me to whether or not being a masochist affects my thinking. It does not. I think it makes it EASIER in a way to love my Master. To know that he loves me enough to take this journey with me is incredible. I count my blessings every day that I didn't lose him the moment I mentioned the fact that I was a masochist. I WAS afraid of that at first. When it came out and he began exploring the world of BDSM with me, I was amazed and I felt an incredible relief.

My submission is not only physical to him...it is mental as well. Sometimes I feel as though I should defer to him on the tiniest things...how my hair should be, the colors of my clothing, the makeup I wear. His pleasure comes first. His needs come first. His desires and passions come first, always. And I know he loves me more and more for this. And I love that I can give him my submission, even if it is the only thing that I can offer.

I really don't think that I could do this without the love and faith that I have in him. It was tested recently...but we've come through that. We've overcome so many obstacles together and yet we have so many to overcome before we're through. And love is what pushes us to do it. Love pushes me to overcome limits. Love pushes me to understand myself better and what I need. Love makes me understand HIS needs better and be able to better serve them.

I have to say I'm very new to this, but this feeling is beyond anything I've ever felt. The magnitude is astonishing to me.

And THAT is what love brings to my submission.

Forgive the newbie for rambling so.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

I find it so hard to explain exactly how I feel about this. My feelings are still scrambled due to the fact that this is so new. The feeling has been there for years, and yet the words to actually DESCRIBE the feeling haven't come.

I am a masochist. I am in what would be considered a very loving long distance relationship right now with no chance for RL play due to distance. I am faithful to Sir regardless of this and will be until we meet this year. We've been in said loving relationship for one and a half years, both faithful the entire time.

the long distance thing is hard, i know, ive done it before. nothing more agonizing that meeting someone you connect with on a deep, primal level, and knowing you will never get a chance to meet that person and explore that.

 

[stephb]

I'll finally get to meet him later this year, as I said. We're going to discuss our options. The plan we've been tossing around for the past couple of months is that I come there to live with him. The actual BDSM relationship is going to start slow and as SSC as you can get. That's another thing that I love him for. He's willing to go slowly.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Can you submit without love? Sure you can. I would venture to say many D/s relationships start out that way. Mine did.

We started out looking at our relationship as a play partner kind of thing. Ooops. LOL.

Love grows. At least in my world.

I have grown immeasurable in this relationship. Yes, it began began before the love came, but increased exponentially after the love was made clear and evident. Trust deepened, limits fell one and then another, by the wayside. My masochism came to the fore, and without even seeming to notice it, pain became something I craved.

Would I be who I am if I didn't love him? I think I would be a good submissive. I don't think I would have gone nearly as far, nor challenged myself as much as I have for someone that I was just....*affectionate* with. It wouldn't have mattered as much. The investment is deeper.

~anelize

 

[Limbhugger]

The investment is deeper.

~anelize

Very well said.

 

[lizzie anne]

l-o-v-e?????

yeah yeah,,....i aint no male dom,.......i aint no bio female,..
i'm sorry.-----some folks'll tell ya i aint human....

not being a smartass.......honest.....

but there is NO type of love here between Ma'am and i. W/we both set it up that way,......long before i even left the house to the car door,....to drive out.
sam as s-e-x......(shhhhh)
that doesnt exist either.....just, a, plain, fact,.....honestly.

so no, i am not a part of the normal crowd of sheep in the s/m or b/d.....or whatever else letters you use.....
i am just me,......unimportant to any regular normal lifestyle....
i am not part of anyone's crowd or clique.....
but this is, just, my, viewpoint, from, my own, lifestyle with Ma'am here........

thank you......
stay in one 1 piece?.........huh?

lizzie