sub "sponge"?

[Shankara20]

When I first started out, as a bottom, I was not very expressive. In fact, that lack of expressiveness had plagued me and my lovers for all my life. Forgetting the male stereotype and the possible reasons for all that for the time being, Ma'am simply would not allow it. She worked hard and diligently and persistently to get me to open up and express no matter what she was doing to me.

As I was getting to know the ProDomme I eventually moved in with, I came to find out the distain she and her other ProDomme friends had for those they called "sub-sponges" - those that suck up everything they tossed at them with no reaction, response, feedback, etc. They all experienced Topping those bottoms as emotional draining and unsatisfying. As Pros they kept doing business with them, but they simply found no pleasure from it.

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?
When you land a flogger do you expect a flinch?
When hit do you move?
When you orgasm do you make noise?
When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?
What do you do if you want a reaction and don't get one?
How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?

 

[s_red830]

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?
When you land a flogger do you expect a flinch?
When hit do you move?
When you orgasm do you make noise?
When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?
What do you do if you want a reaction and don't get one?
How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?

Oooh, I hate it when my sub is spongey. I'm actually trying to figure out how to train him out of it, so I'll keep up with this thread. Great topic.

 

[neonflux]

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?
very, on both ends

When you land a flogger do you expect a flinch?
yes

When hit do you move?
yes

When you orgasm do you make noise?
yes - lots

When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?
absolutely

What do you do if you want a reaction and don't get one?
with orgasm, try to start a conversation after - how were you feeling because you were being so quiet I couldn't tell... etc. (seems to work better with women)

How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?
in terms of BDSM, don't know since i am new and haven't really experienced this, although last night played a little with a young woman who wasn't responding (spanking/paddling), asked her to rate the force 1-10 and she said 10, which just seemed impossible. Gradually upped the ante until she did, then raised it a little more...

 

[Ksb]

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?

To me, very. I know he likes me to be vocal and expressive, so I try to be. I like getting reactions out of him, as I know he is very used to being silent, so I feel i've acomplished something.

When hit do you move?

It depends on the force, and how i'm feeling. If I naturally flinch or want to try and cover whatevers getting beaten to hell, I won't stop myself... and I won't squirm for the sake of it.

When you orgasm do you make noise?

I tend to hold my breath when I cum, so i'm pretty quiet during the actual orgasm, but I definatly make noise before.

When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?

Yes. Yes yes yes. Incredibly erotic.

What do you do if you want a reaction and don't get one?

Work harder.

How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?

I was very very very quiet... though I always flinched etc. My partner helped me be more vocal by talking to me alot, and asking direct questions when he was playing with me. He also asked me to 'practice' when I was alone and masturbating, so I became more used to it.

I might have totally missed the question/point, as I'm not too experienced and haven't encountered anyone 'spongey'.

 

[Kierae]

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?
When you land a flogger do you expect a flinch?
When hit do you move?
When you orgasm do you make noise?
When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?
What do you do if you want a reaction and don't get one?
How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?

I know this is a source of frustration for my husband. He would love it if I was more vocal which I struggle with. I was trained to be quiet with minimal noise no matter what so basically all you get out of me is whimpering. He pushes those limits for me by questioning me and demanding answers. If I am totally noncommunicative, he assumes I have dissociated (and he is usually correct) and everything stops if he can't get engage me on some level. I do move when caned/whipped/etc since I tend to "ride" the waves of pain. It has been a long process and I know I have made some progress but clearly it's that 3 steps forward/2 back when it comes to the vocalization. Ironically I have no issues vocalizing if I am switching - I make my needs/wants very clear.

~kierae

 

[shy slave]

I am not a sponge.

At least I don't think I am.

I cry, make noises, flinch and at times have tried to move away.

From the other side of this, I love being able to use my submission to take him to the edge.

When I am kneeling in front of him I get so much pleasure when I see the slightest movement or hear him make a noise.
He isn't noisy at all, so when that happens I know I am giving him a good time.

I openly admit I love hearing him orgasm, whether it is an orgasm without cumming, or with it.

It gives me such a great deal of pleasure and deep satisfaction to have been a part of that.

LDR is not fun at times, I would love to have a day-to-day ordinariness about being with each other; but what I miss greatly is the time I can spend bringing him to a point where he makes a noise.

 

[ddimes123]

(gone)

 

[bunnislippers]

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?

i think it's quite important.... but would never fake it, or want someone to fake it.

When you land a flogger do you expect a flinch?

at some point yes....

When hit do you move?

sometimes....

When you orgasm do you make noise?

right before i orgasm, yes, but I am quite quiet during, and also tend to kinda hold my breath....

When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?

yes.... but it doesn't have to be loud or anything, some people don't make hardly any noise but react other ways and that's just as hot for me

What do you do if you want a reaction and don't get one?

try harder

How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?

well, i would try to find out the cause of it.... in my mind that would be the best way to start...

 

[Shankara20]

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Shank

 

[ABX]

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction

It's the whole point.

Fortunately my girl is extremely reactive - in fact she's somewhat hypersensitive.

 

[Shankara20]

...although last night played a little with a young woman who wasn't responding (spanking/paddling), asked her to rate the force 1-10 and she said 10, which just seemed impossible. Gradually upped the ante until she did, then raised it a little more...

I find the 1-10 question very useful as a Top in getting direct feedback. As a bottom it was a little annoying when Ma'am first was training me to express, but I came to see it as an indicter that I had not been giving good feedback to her.

I like it as a tool with new playmates.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

My slave is expressive with her noises, and is quite loud at orgasm. No, I am NOT complaining about this.

I have worked with her to get her to be able to talk more in a scene, but that does not often happen.

She would flinch or try to move as her bonds would allow as I flogged her... but the binds don't allow for too much motion.

As for training one to be more expressive, I think that is quite hard, becuase some people are just not that vocal. You CAN get some reactions by talking to them during a scene, but as far as moans and screams, I think that is from people's individual reactions, and I do not know if that can be changed.

This is just a thought because I have never topped a male sub before. but could it be that they are being 'spongy" because they think that is what is expected of them. That they are supposed to take as much as possible without reacting?

 

[Bredon]

Why should I even bother to hit someone if I don't get a reaction. They don't have to scream at the top of their lungs all the time, but flinching, and moaning, and little cries-- that's why I top.
I think those reactions are what closes the cycle between top and bottom. The top acts in some way, but that's oly half of the circle-- the bottom needs to react in some way or ze will leave the top standing in the rain-- they just take and don't give anything back. They feel (hopefully), but you can never be sure about that--

Bredon

 

[neonflux]

I find the 1-10 question very useful as a Top in getting direct feedback. As a bottom it was a little annoying when Ma'am first was training me to express, but I came to see it as an indicter that I had not been giving good feedback to her.

I like it as a tool with new playmates.

I perhaps am too inexperienced, and should have listened when she said 10. But I figured that if it really was a 10, she would use her safe word. I did continue to check in to see if she was OK and she said that she was. She is switch and so did we ( a little ). She also said that she enjoyed it after when we talked, and came up to kiss me before she left and said she'd like to play again. I know that she's there often (PE, not Citadel - hangs out in the dungeon space with the House Dom/mes), therefore I am surmising that my instincts were correct... However, perhaps I should have been more circumspect??? (heart-felt question as this is the first time I've ever played with someone I've only just met)

 

[BeachGurl2]

How about my stock answer for this one, too. It depends. On a lot of things.

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?
I don't consciously think about whether I am 'reacting' or not. Sometimes, I am physical or vocal in my reactions and sometimes I am not. There are times when being beaten very hard on my back with a leather flogger or leather belt is incredibly calming for me. If I'm stressed out, I can lie on my stomach and be beaten, and never move or utter a sound - it's probably the equivalent of a massage for me, although I'd never turn one of those down. When this happens, my heart rate actually drops significantly - I know, because my last Dom hooked me up to a monitor to check. He was amazed to see that effect on me. There are other times when the slightest smack will result in moans and groans and even thrashing about.

When hit do you move?
Depends again. Does it sting? Hurt in any way? Or is it a welcome feeling? And what does He expect me to do in response?

I once got in a heap of trouble because he was using someone else's crop on me at the dungeon and accidentally caught me with a badly stitched section. Hurt like a motherf*****. I had been kneeling backwards on a leather sofa while he hit me. I gasped in surprised pain, turned my ass over and sat right down on the sofa. Know why? Because he had already hit me with that section and I had told him that it had a bad stitch in it and asked him to stop using it - he refused. And so I paid for that, not because I did something against his wishes, but because I embarassed him in front of others. Only one of the reasons I am no longer in that relationship.

When you orgasm do you make noise?
Yes, always. There is no depends to this one. While I can sometimes make noise 'quietly', I'm usually pretty vocal.

When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?
Yes, I absolutely hate guys who are silent when the orgasm. Leaves me wondering if he really did or not. Or if he really enjoyed it.

How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?
One problem I see with this is that - and I'm talking about myself here, not trying to make any generalizations - if I have to concentrate on having the right response, then I'm not concentrating on feeling. For me, it's just like 69. I love oral sex - both giving and receiving. I'm extremely oral. However, I hate 69. Wanna know why? Because I can't think about my own pleasure and pleasure him well at the same time. It's not the same as intercourse for me. It's about putting my all into either giving pleasure or receiving pleasure in a specific way. I dated someone who had a hard time dealing with the fact that I could spend a great amount of time giving him the bj of his life without touching myself. He just didn't get that it wasn't about getting myself off, it was about giving him pleasure. Maybe I'm just weird but it works that way for me.

I see training someone to react appropriately in much the same way. For me, if I have to think about my reactions, I will have less focus to direct to the stimulation I am receiving. And then my reaction is forced and not natural. Obviously, as a sub, it's not normally my job to train, so methods in this situation totally escape me. But it just seems counter productive to try to force a response.

 

[Soumis]

granted, I've never been a quiet one during sex

I was a sub sponge once upon a time. Still can be a bit of one, but I'm slowly working my way out of it. I've found that the more comfortable I become with what I am doing, the more expressive I can be.

Oddly enough, the real "breakthrough" if you will, that I had with this, was with a Dom who required me to be silent and still in a particular position without any restraints. For some reason being told to do this made it much more difficult for me to do so. That was the most expressive I'd ever been in a scene, least until the next time we played. The next time he restrained me, but made no limit as to how expressive I could be. For some reason being allowed to be expressive this time after not being allowed to the time before set me off. I'm not sure if it was gratefulness, or if I just wanted him to know exactly how much I loved every stroke, but I havn't been that expressive in a scene again, ever.

I love being restrained, but I know from practice now that a lack of restraints can be a surefire way to get me more expressive.

 

[myinnerslut]

from my submissive point of view...

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?

i love hearing from Sir that he is enjoying what i am doing to or for him.

When hit do you move?

yes. well, i flinch each time. if Sir is in a pattern, and stops without warning, ill actually flinch in anticipation of the blow that would have fallen. when im not restrained, i sometimes turn to avoid the blow, but it always finds me.

When you orgasm do you make noise?

if im allowed to, i will make lots of noise, moans, gasps, etc. im just naturally loud. if im told to stay quieter it will be more like fast shallow breathes and little squeaks when i am suppressing a moan.

When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?

absolutly yes. without a doubt in my mind, hearing Sir cum is the sexiest thing i have ever heard in my life

What do you do if you want a reaction and don't get one?

ask if i was pleasing him, or if there was something i could do so he would enjoy himself more. i assume that if i dont hear anything im doing something wrong. mabye a bad assumption to make.

How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?

since i have always been very responsive i dont have anything to add here from experience, but mabye ask questions while things are happening?

 

[Shankara20]

I perhaps am too inexperienced, and should have listened when she said 10. But I figured that if it really was a 10, she would use her safe word. I did continue to check in to see if she was OK and she said that she was. She is switch and so did we ( a little ). She also said that she enjoyed it after when we talked, and came up to kiss me before she left and said she'd like to play again. I know that she's there often (PE, not Citadel - hangs out in the dungeon space with the House Dom/mes), therefore I am surmising that my instincts were correct... However, perhaps I should have been more circumspect??? (heart-felt question as this is the first time I've ever played with someone I've only just met)

I think we get clues from several sources when we Top and it sounds like your instincts were correct. If you had been wrong one more smack might have brought out her safeword.

 

[Shankara20]

How about my stock answer for this one, too. It depends. On a lot of things.

In your play how important is it that you get a reaction, or that you give a reaction?
I don't consciously think about whether I am 'reacting' or not. Sometimes, I am physical or vocal in my reactions and sometimes I am not. There are times when being beaten very hard on my back with a leather flogger or leather belt is incredibly calming for me. If I'm stressed out, I can lie on my stomach and be beaten, and never move or utter a sound - it's probably the equivalent of a massage for me, although I'd never turn one of those down. When this happens, my heart rate actually drops significantly - I know, because my last Dom hooked me up to a monitor to check. He was amazed to see that effect on me. There are other times when the slightest smack will result in moans and groans and even thrashing about.

When hit do you move?
Depends again. Does it sting? Hurt in any way? Or is it a welcome feeling? And what does He expect me to do in response?

I once got in a heap of trouble because he was using someone else's crop on me at the dungeon and accidentally caught me with a badly stitched section. Hurt like a motherf*****. I had been kneeling backwards on a leather sofa while he hit me. I gasped in surprised pain, turned my ass over and sat right down on the sofa. Know why? Because he had already hit me with that section and I had told him that it had a bad stitch in it and asked him to stop using it - he refused. And so I paid for that, not because I did something against his wishes, but because I embarassed him in front of others. Only one of the reasons I am no longer in that relationship.

When you orgasm do you make noise?
Yes, always. There is no depends to this one. While I can sometimes make noise 'quietly', I'm usually pretty vocal.

When you are with someone who is having an orgasm do you want to hear sounds?
Yes, I absolutely hate guys who are silent when the orgasm. Leaves me wondering if he really did or not. Or if he really enjoyed it.

How do you train someone out of being a "sponge"?
One problem I see with this is that - and I'm talking about myself here, not trying to make any generalizations - if I have to concentrate on having the right response, then I'm not concentrating on feeling. For me, it's just like 69. I love oral sex - both giving and receiving. I'm extremely oral. However, I hate 69. Wanna know why? Because I can't think about my own pleasure and pleasure him well at the same time. It's not the same as intercourse for me. It's about putting my all into either giving pleasure or receiving pleasure in a specific way. I dated someone who had a hard time dealing with the fact that I could spend a great amount of time giving him the bj of his life without touching myself. He just didn't get that it wasn't about getting myself off, it was about giving him pleasure. Maybe I'm just weird but it works that way for me.

I see training someone to react appropriately in much the same way. For me, if I have to think about my reactions, I will have less focus to direct to the stimulation I am receiving. And then my reaction is forced and not natural. Obviously, as a sub, it's not normally my job to train, so methods in this situation totally escape me. But it just seems counter productive to try to force a response.

I am more-or-less the same with 69 as you, way too much going on at one time. And I also had similar problems receiving a BJ as your male friend, in fact I still do if it is from a female - if it is from a male I expect him to be working hard for my satisfaction, to hell with is satisfaction (I have a few crossed wires I'm still trying to sort out inside my mainframe)

I'm not concerned with direction a set response, I just want some response.


Thanks for your post.

 

[Shankara20]

I was a sub sponge once upon a time. Still can be a bit of one, but I'm slowly working my way out of it. I've found that the more comfortable I become with what I am doing, the more expressive I can be.

Oddly enough, the real "breakthrough" if you will, that I had with this, was with a Dom who required me to be silent and still in a particular position without any restraints. For some reason being told to do this made it much more difficult for me to do so. That was the most expressive I'd ever been in a scene, least until the next time we played. The next time he restrained me, but made no limit as to how expressive I could be. For some reason being allowed to be expressive this time after not being allowed to the time before set me off. I'm not sure if it was gratefulness, or if I just wanted him to know exactly how much I loved every stroke, but I havn't been that expressive in a scene again, ever.

I love being restrained, but I know from practice now that a lack of restraints can be a surefire way to get me more expressive.

I find your post very interesting and think it adds to my understanding.

 

[Shankara20]

i assume that if i dont hear anything im doing something wrong. mabye a bad assumption to make.

I think it is a natural assumption to make - that is one reason some Tops hate the non-responsiveness

 

[Shankara20]

Why should I even bother to hit someone if I don't get a reaction. They don't have to scream at the top of their lungs all the time, but flinching, and moaning, and little cries-- that's why I top.
I think those reactions are what closes the cycle between top and bottom. The top acts in some way, but that's oly half of the circle-- the bottom needs to react in some way or ze will leave the top standing in the rain-- they just take and don't give anything back. They feel (hopefully), but you can never be sure about that--

Bredon

My point exactly - thanks.

 

[Shankara20]

This is just a thought because I have never topped a male sub before. but could it be that they are being 'spongy" because they think that is what is expected of them. That they are supposed to take as much as possible without reacting?

I think what you are saying here can be part of the issue for some males...

 

[Netzach]

Having been spongiform as a bottom at times, I don't find it that abhorrent in others.

I also think that sometimes errr...people are really not good with subtlety.

The hottest female orgasms I ever witnessed were a friend of mine who went silent and panted. OMG, I almost came watching her.

 

[Shankara20]

Having been spongiform as a bottom at times, I don't find it that abhorrent in others.

I also think that sometimes errr...people are really not good with subtlety.

The hottest female orgasms I ever witnessed were a friend of mine who went silent and panted. OMG, I almost came watching her.

OK - now that is HOT!!!!

Do you ever have a problem reading a sub that is non-responsive? as with a strap-on for example?

(remembering a post from someplace else but not really trying to cause trouble)