sub/slaves and perfectionism

[sub princess]

submissives/slaves, do you find yourselves seeking perfection?

The reason i ask is because i am relatively new to D/s, and i do have a Master. In the beginning of my training i would exhaust myself to please Him, perhaps at times going far beyond what the average submissive would do. i craved new tasks and disciplines, there was no such thing as "to much" to me. i spent much of my time thinking about what i could do to surprise and delight Him..... but i myself never saw it as good enough. He often worried about my unrealistic need for perfection, yet i still did not see that the aspirations that i had were unrealistic.

This all changed one day, when in a moment of terrible emotional stress and mindlessness i disobeyed Him worse than any other ever had. Now it seems that i cannot get back to my own standards of a "good slave".... and moreover i seem to be disobeying in even the simplest of circumstances.

Have any other submissives/slaves faced this? Do you find yourself looking to be perfect, or at least perfect in your own mind? How does one get over this, and move on? When you make a mistake or disobey, do you have a harder time forgiving yourself than Your Dom/me, Top, Master does?

Thanks,
s.p.

 

[Netzach]

Not that I'm currently a slave or even submissive, but I did spend a lot of my early scene life as a submissive.

I found that my desire for perfection was almost always wrapped up in my ego. It wasn't about pleasing the Dominant, it was about proving how splendid a submissive I was to the Dominant. It was about knowing that the Dominant would be thinking "wow, holy shit, is she good!"

What snapped me out of it....well, nothing did for good, really, but that's just me. My ego only takes coffee breaks, I'm afraid.

Humiliation would put my head right for a while. So would a task so impossible that I could not do it right, and knowing that I would fail and be punished. That was actually very comforting to me because I knew that my ability to be *good* was not my only value, I could be downright awful at something and punished for the screw up and STILL know that I was valued anyway.

 

[sub princess]

Not that I'm currently a slave or even submissive, but I did spend a lot of my early scene life as a submissive.

I found that my desire for perfection was almost always wrapped up in my ego. It wasn't about pleasing the Dominant, it was about proving how splendid a submissive I was to the Dominant. It was about knowing that the Dominant would be thinking "wow, holy shit, is she good!"

What snapped me out of it....well, nothing did for good, really, but that's just me. My ego only takes coffee breaks, I'm afraid.

Humiliation would put my head right for a while. So would a task so impossible that I could not do it right, and knowing that I would fail and be punished. That was actually very comforting to me because I knew that my ability to be *good* was not my only value, I could be downright awful at something and punished for the screw up and STILL know that I was valued anyway.

Thank you for the reply... Master said that He was actually glad that i screwed up so royally in a sense, because i needed to learn that perfectionism is in fact unrealistic. And perhaps, as i think about it now, i am in fact doing the same as you once did, in that i am "taking myself down a peg".... so to speak. It's food for thought. Thanks again.

 

[zipman]

Not that I'm currently a slave or even submissive, but I did spend a lot of my early scene life as a submissive.

I found that my desire for perfection was almost always wrapped up in my ego. It wasn't about pleasing the Dominant, it was about proving how splendid a submissive I was to the Dominant. It was about knowing that the Dominant would be thinking "wow, holy shit, is she good!"

What snapped me out of it....well, nothing did for good, really, but that's just me. My ego only takes coffee breaks, I'm afraid.

Humiliation would put my head right for a while. So would a task so impossible that I could not do it right, and knowing that I would fail and be punished. That was actually very comforting to me because I knew that my ability to be *good* was not my only value, I could be downright awful at something and punished for the screw up and STILL know that I was valued anyway.

What a great post!

I have had more than a few subs who have demonstrated this exact behavior. Even when I said I was pleased, they would still feel that it wasn't enough. With one sub that this was a particular problem with, I decided to give her the worst punishment of all. One weekend full of indifference. At the end of it, she was begging for any kind of feedback on her performance. Then I told her that she had disappointed me greatly. Through tears she asked what she had done that weekend to displease me so. I replied that she did what she had been doing for the last three months, not listening to what I was saying. I told her that when I tell her I am pleased or proud, that it was the highest praise and if her face did not light up when I said it, that she wasn't listening.

Our relationship improved greatly and this was never an issue again. It may have been a little cruel, but it sure as hell worked!

 

[Shadowsdream]

Submissives that can never get enough, be enough or desire enough...are far from able to earn the *perfect * badge.
They are generally exhausting and self serving. Their inability to follow a direction because they are always improving and deepening it are not submitting but controlling.
It is not unusual for a D/s relationship with miss or mr perfect in it to already be on its way to failure unless the Dominant does as Zip did and point out in a very drawn out and dramatic display of boredom that it is not appreciated.
One can go to these lengths once...maybe twice if they are so inclined, but once the realization hits Us that the Dominant is only the vehicle to stoke the submissives ego...boredom replaces passion.
Of course there is also the opposite side of the spectrum...*i am worthless* and being determined to prove it over and over again at all costs. Believe it or not...this statement and actions is also self serving.

 

[bunny bondage]

i think it's time for a daily affirmation

remember, you're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh darn it, doms like you.

 

[sub princess]

Thank you Zip and Shadowsdream fot your input. i do not think that my motivation is self serving, and i have never at any point tried to, or thought that i could improve upon anything that Master told me to do. i do not dwell on my own lack of satisfaction is what i do for Him, but rather it is an inner struggle, something of which i am trying to work on.

As time has gone on, His assignments, tasks and disciplines have become more difficult, and i know my capabilities..... and there are times, like tonight for example, that there are things that i just cannot manage. He understands this, and though there may be punishment for not following through, He accepts that i cannot do all. my problem, and the reason i started this thread, is that i have to learn to accept this.

You have both given me something to think about, thank you again for your thoughts.

 

[sub princess]

Re: i think it's time for a daily affirmation

remember, you're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh darn it, doms like you.

LOL.... thanks bunny..... guess i better get to the mirror!

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: i think it's time for a daily affirmation

remember, you're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh darn it, doms like you.

BINGO!

 

[Shadowsdream]

Thank you Zip and Shadowsdream fot your input. i do not think that my motivation is self serving, and i have never at any point tried to, or thought that i could improve upon anything that Master told me to do. i do not dwell on my own lack of satisfaction is what i do for Him, but rather it is an inner struggle, something of which i am trying to work on.

As time has gone on, His assignments, tasks and disciplines have become more difficult, and i know my capabilities..... and there are times, like tonight for example, that there are things that i just cannot manage. He understands this, and though there may be punishment for not following through, He accepts that i cannot do all. my problem, and the reason i started this thread, is that i have to learn to accept this.

You have both given me something to think about, thank you again for your thoughts.

I do not think your motivation is self serving either or you would not have begun this thread.

 

[sub princess]

I do not think your motivation is self serving either or you would not have begun this thread.

Thank you Shadowsdream, my reasoning for this thread is to help myself, and any other sub/slaves facing the same issue,accept the inperfections and to get over the whole needing to be a 'super slave' thing. i was becoming increasingly aware that it is not healthy spiritually, and it could damage the very special, very caring relationship that i am in.

 

[Pleasurekitten]

I have had more than a few subs who have demonstrated this exact behavior. Even when I said I was pleased, they would still feel that it wasn't enough. With one sub that this was a particular problem with, I decided to give her the worst punishment of all. One weekend full of indifference. At the end of it, she was begging for any kind of feedback on her performance. Then I told her that she had disappointed me greatly. Through tears she asked what she had done that weekend to displease me so. I replied that she did what she had been doing for the last three months, not listening to what I was saying. I told her that when I tell her I am pleased or proud, that it was the highest praise and if her face did not light up when I said it, that she wasn't listening.

This is so close to my behaviour at times that it stopped me in my tracks reading this. It may also account for my Master's recent attitude towards me. i am still new to this and fear that my insecurites from my past relationships have been partly responsible for the way i desire to be certain that i am indeed pleasing him and not just performing "satisfactorily". If this is striving for perfection, i really don't know but i am going to think long and hard about how i *do* react in the future.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

submissives/slaves, do you find yourselves seeking perfection?

The reason i ask is because i am relatively new to D/s, and i do have a Master. In the beginning of my training i would exhaust myself to please Him, perhaps at times going far beyond what the average submissive would do. i craved new tasks and disciplines, there was no such thing as "to much" to me. i spent much of my time thinking about what i could do to surprise and delight Him..... but i myself never saw it as good enough. He often worried about my unrealistic need for perfection, yet i still did not see that the aspirations that i had were unrealistic.

This all changed one day, when in a moment of terrible emotional stress and mindlessness i disobeyed Him worse than any other ever had. Now it seems that i cannot get back to my own standards of a "good slave".... and moreover i seem to be disobeying in even the simplest of circumstances.

Have any other submissives/slaves faced this? Do you find yourself looking to be perfect, or at least perfect in your own mind? How does one get over this, and move on? When you make a mistake or disobey, do you have a harder time forgiving yourself than Your Dom/me, Top, Master does?

Thanks,
s.p.

Well, I have not had that problem but one which is so near to it that I wonder what makes me this way. Case in point, not only am I a sub, but a masochist as well. My owner has been very put out with me because on 2 seperate occasions recently, i allowed the pain/pleasure to become so intense that i did not use our safe word, thus passing out. Was I permantly damaged? NO. But my owner feels that until I can say the safe word, I may not enjoy our relationship in a full manner. Am I resentful of this? Yes!! So, I guess for me it is not the whole *perfection* aspect as it is *pride*. For me, I am a good pet, I listen and I value him. But is it the same problem, if within me, I feel like I should be able to take more than any one he has had before? No idea. What do you think s.p. or any of the rest of you nice people? Thanks...

 

[T.J. Jackson]

Perfection is unattainable. Both a Master and a submissive are human and because of that human failings come into play. While perfection can be a goal for some, I don't thnk it should be. It sets the person up for failure from the start. I want my submissive to be the best that she can be, not perfect. I know what she is capable of. I have seen glimpses what she can be in her. I want more of that not only for me but for her as well. Everything I do is geared towards helping her attain that. We had a loving relationship before we embraced this life and we knew and understood each other well. This understanding has both helped and hindered. I know more what to do in certain situations but sometimes I say to myself, well that is just how she is. I have to constantly remind myself that there are some things both she and I realize are failings and want corrected. It takes time to learn some lessons, and some lessons can be painful. Necessary, but painful.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

very nice

Perfection is unattainable. Both a Master and a submissive are human and because of that human failings come into play. While perfection can be a goal for some, I don't thnk it should be. It sets the person up for failure from the start. I want my submissive to be the best that she can be, not perfect. I know what she is capable of. I have seen glimpses what she can be in her. I want more of that not only for me but for her as well. Everything I do is geared towards helping her attain that. We had a loving relationship before we embraced this life and we knew and understood each other well. This understanding has both helped and hindered. I know more what to do in certain situations but sometimes I say to myself, well that is just how she is. I have to constantly remind myself that there are some things both she and I realize are failings and want corrected. It takes time to learn some lessons, and some lessons can be painful. Necessary, but painful.

What i have read so far makes me feel that it may just be me struggling to be the best, ie perfect. Now to break myself of this habit as it was ingrained long before i realized I was a pet. Maybe something disasterous has to happen. No idea.

 

[sub princess]

Re: Re: sub/slaves and perfectionism

Well, I have not had that problem but one which is so near to it that I wonder what makes me this way. Case in point, not only am I a sub, but a masochist as well. My owner has been very put out with me because on 2 seperate occasions recently, i allowed the pain/pleasure to become so intense that i did not use our safe word, thus passing out. Was I permantly damaged? NO. But my owner feels that until I can say the safe word, I may not enjoy our relationship in a full manner. Am I resentful of this? Yes!! So, I guess for me it is not the whole *perfection* aspect as it is *pride*. For me, I am a good pet, I listen and I value him. But is it the same problem, if within me, I feel like I should be able to take more than any one he has had before? No idea. What do you think s.p. or any of the rest of you nice people? Thanks...

apet4you, i know exactly where you are coming from. i have often wondered if i would call out the safe word (though at this point W/we really don't have one), i like the pain/pleasure, and don't know if i could ever decide in my own mind when enough was enough, though He pays very close attention to my reactions, and i think He will know.

In starting this thread i have thought more than ever about how my own views of myself affect Master. i have come to realize that if i am not honest and forgiving of myself, than i am selfishly wasting time and energy, not to mention the emotional toll it takes, on myself, when i should move on, and forgive myself as He does. Just last night He said to me "If I say that I am not disappointed in you, you must learn to be grateful for that and not burden your heart with fears that are unjustified and impede your being the most a slave can be for Me".....this, and the advice of O/others on this board has given me a new perspective, and made me come to see that i have to let it go, and accept myself, flaws and all, else i am being selfish on top of disobedient at times.

i just want to say thank You to E/everyone on this board, i do not post here often, but i lurk quite a bit. i am still very new to D/s, and i have learned alot here, and i someday hope that my experience will help O/others just getting involved in D/s.

Thanks again................

 

[Ebonyfire]

Excellent post!

Submissives that can never get enough, be enough or desire enough...are far from able to earn the *perfect * badge.
They are generally exhausting and self serving. Their inability to follow a direction because they are always improving and deepening it are not submitting but controlling.
It is not unusual for a D/s relationship with miss or mr perfect in it to already be on its way to failure unless the Dominant does as Zip did and point out in a very drawn out and dramatic display of boredom that it is not appreciated.
One can go to these lengths once...maybe twice if they are so inclined, but once the realization hits Us that the Dominant is only the vehicle to stoke the submissives ego...boredom replaces passion.
Of course there is also the opposite side of the spectrum...*i am worthless* and being determined to prove it over and over again at all costs. Believe it or not...this statement and actions is also self serving.

I have to totally agree.

The search for perfection is pointless and self-defeating.
The expectation of perfection is unrealistic and impossible.

What is needed is obedience.

 

[T.J. Jackson]

Re: Excellent post!

I have to totally agree.

The search for perfection is pointless and self-defeating.
The expectation of perfection is unrealistic and impossible.

What is needed is obedience.

Exactly. The sooner that lesson is learned the better the whole relationship becomes.

 

[Richard49]

interesting...................................

What is the primary purpose of a submissive or slave?
( not talking bottoms here)

Is it not to please there Dom/me master ?

So if they are going over baord in being perfect and that does
not please there Dom/me master ..... who are they trying to please ? Themselves?

 

[Ebonyfire]

interesting...................................

What is the primary purpose of a submissive or slave?
( not talking bottoms here)

Is it not to please there Dom/me master ?

So if they are going over baord in being perfect and that does
not please there Dom/me master ..... who are they trying to please ? Themselves?

I think it may be something in their makeup that makes want to "control the submission".

If obedience is not enough, and they go further, isn't that in fact disobedience?

 

[Richard49]

I think it may be something in their makeup that makes want to "control the submission".

If obedience is not enough, and they go further, isn't that in fact disobedience?

Yes it is disobedience

 

[Ebonyfire]

Yes it is disobedience

So I would have to find out why this is so. If it is a primary of the sub's personality, it might be something that cannot be changed without harm to the person. In that case there are few options. You learn to work within the person's personality or if that is not possible, you release them.

 

[sub princess]

I think it may be something in their makeup that makes want to "control the submission".

If obedience is not enough, and they go further, isn't that in fact disobedience?

Thank You Eb and Richard for your posts. i completely agree with what you are both saying, and that is what i was trying to sort out in starting this thread. For me, it is not that i change the task at hand or to any way "control the submission'..... i will give an example: He will give me a photo assignment (He likes me to take various pictures of myself for Him), He tells me to have it done by tomorrow evening..... i do it right away, in the hopes of pleasing Him, and long for Him to assign more. The problem that weighs heavy on me is the times that, through other life circumstances, i cannot do it right away, though it is ALWAYS done by His deadline. Or as another example: He has me send Him a nightly report, listing all the disciplines and tasks that i have completed that day. It used to be that i would write out very long, very detailed reports... something He enjoys, but said was not necessary. There were times that i was either to tired or to to busy to write them out as elaborately as i would typically do, and i would often apologize for them being brief. Because He knew that my responsibilities were growing, and that my devotions to Him were stronger with each day, He now has me do my daily report in checklist form, so that i do not overwhelm myself, or put the extra pressure on myself. So it was not that i was or ever thought that i could 'improve' upon the things that He asks of me... it was i guess my way of trying to express how much i love doing the things He asks, and wanting to show Him that i can handle all of the things He asks of me, and do them with pleasure, and without hesitation.

Thank You again for Your posts..........

 

[Ebonyfire]

You gave a good example

<snip>He has me send Him a nightly report, listing all the disciplines and tasks that i have completed that day. It used to be that i would write out very long, very detailed reports... something He enjoys, but said was not necessary. There were times that i was either to tired or to to busy to write them out as elaborately as i would typically do, and i would often apologize for them being brief. Because He knew that my responsibilities were growing, and that my devotions to Him were stronger with each day, He now has me do my daily report in checklist form, so that i do not overwhelm myself, or put the extra pressure on myself

First of all, there was no need to explain, cause I was not necessarily talking about your situation in specific.

You gave the perfect example, and it gives me the chance to elaborate on a "work around".

Your Master had you do your report in a checkist, rather that a long report because he has (now I am assuming here) recognized your need for perfection, and he is finding a way to allow you to do your thing and yet not overdo it.

Now the point I need to make is that the Dominant has to know his/her sub well enough to determine if he/she is being disobedient or has a personality trait that comes into play.

It seems your Dom has found a solution that satisfies you both, and that is how it should be.

 

[sub princess]

Re: You gave a good example

First of all, there was no need to explain, cause I was not necessarily talking about your situation in specific.

You gave the perfect example, and it gives me the chance to elaborate on a "work around".

Your Master had you do your report in a checkist, rather that a long report because he has (now I am assuming here) recognized your need for perfection, and he is finding a way to allow you to do your thing and yet not overdo it.

Now the point I need to make is that the Dominant has to know his/her sub well enough to determine if he/she is being disobedient or has a personality trait that comes into play.

It seems your Dom has found a solution that satisfies you both, and that is how it should be.

Eb, i agree... and that was what i was trying to point out in my reply. i did not mean to sound defensive, after re reading my previous posts, i saw that i should state an example to better clarify my own situation. i am loving all of this feedback, as it is truly helping me. This is my first true discussion here, and it is great to hear the different perspectives from E/everyone. Thanks again.