Sub Drift?

[catalina_francisco]

Have heard rumors of sub collars being made out of paper..

Nah, you just gotta update your information network, they are made of fairy dust!!

Catalina

 

[Chris_Xavier]

I stand corrected..

Given what I've seen in some cases, you are probably right, Cat. Sad to say.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Nah, you just gotta update your information network, they are made of fairy dust!!

Catalina

I think the popular term used to be the "Velcro brigade".

Back on OP topic with more generality ....

Takes two to tango , my basis for shall we call it 'professional courtesy' shifts quite dramatically when I witness the phenomena. Perhaps it's discriminatory on my part but I do expect anyone identifying as a dominant to have at least the most basic handle on the immense level of responsibility partnership with a submissive holds. Sorry to say anyone presenting as 'collared' in a short time frame falls into role-player status for me from both sides of the equation. Then again I shared a conversation recently with quite an established dominant who referred to D/s as a game. I was reticent that it's not a game to me. His reply "no it's not a game , it's THE GAME " . Make of it what you wish , I think the inference bares some reflection though it's a little off topic so I will desist.

New 'blood' IE woman whom have recently embraced the idea that the title submissive is suited to them I have a level more concern for. Though it has to be said we are discussing adults here not children and making flighty dives into the deep end for whatever reason has to be understood as risk taking in or outside of the realm of D/s. Repetition of this behaviour leaves me numb. In the past it made me dismissive , as I felt it in someway devalued aspects of something I personally hold quite sacred. Point in fact though it doesn't . I set my own standards when not 'owned' and adhere to them , it's my responsibility to do so.

The cup does run dry over the years as to how much sympathy I can muster for these situations . I try , some days better than others , hinged on taking full responsibility for my own life whether I have anything left to 'give' there .

The roller-coaster of Velcro drama in both highs & lows can simply fall out of my league . I don't know why I still feel guilty at not being more supportive in general . A battle between learned cynicism over inherent nature perhaps.

 

[Krinaia]

Some can't tell the difference between love and infatuation. That is what I think is hard to listen to when your friends are in those kinds of situations. Saying and using the word love when really it's just that first blush excitement of being with someone new.

But I'm not sure that the described phenomena is unique or even more prevalent among the kinky. Straight people have just as many relationship foibles as we do. I think there is sometimes an attitude among the kinky though that their feelings are more intense and that straight people can't experience love at as deep a level.

I would tend to think though that it happens more among younger subs than among older subs... but i have no idea if that's true.

 

[intothewoods]

New 'blood' IE woman whom have recently embraced the idea that the title submissive is suited to them I have a level more concern for.

This made me think about it from the other side. We all go through weird periods in our lives, and times when we make dumb decisions. Sometimes we have to figure out shit the hard way, you know? Of course, safety is an issue, and I'm not saying people shouldn't express concern. I'm just saying that I appreciate you guys here, who probably roll your eyes at us newbies all the time, and listen anyway.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Nah, you just gotta update your information network, they are made of fairy dust!!

Catalina

And velcro.

 

[Netzach]

This made me think about it from the other side. We all go through weird periods in our lives, and times when we make dumb decisions. Sometimes we have to figure out shit the hard way, you know? Of course, safety is an issue, and I'm not saying people shouldn't express concern. I'm just saying that I appreciate you guys here, who probably roll your eyes at us newbies all the time, and listen anyway.

Is there a new double standard? Rather than stud and slut, stud and neurotic?

I mean what about men who can't go ten seconds without someone?

I don't think that gets the same kind of scrutiny, but it's the same damn fears at play.

 

[intothewoods]

Is there a new double standard? Rather than stud and slut, stud and neurotic?

I mean what about men who can't go ten seconds without someone?

I don't think that gets the same kind of scrutiny, but it's the same damn fears at play.

When I said the "other side" - I meant people doing the relationship to relationship thing.

I think it's emotionally unhealthy no matter what's in your underwear.

 

[kiten69]

Maybe some people just aren't comfortable being alone.

I wasn't comfortable with "being alone" at first. . .but I'm adjusting. . .it is a never ending learning process. . .

 

[Life_Noir]

Nah, you just gotta update your information network, they are made of fairy dust!!

Catalina

Nah...Someone said "pixels" and they thought they had said "pixies".

 

[Netzach]

When I said the "other side" - I meant people doing the relationship to relationship thing.

I think it's emotionally unhealthy no matter what's in your underwear.

No I realize - that just occurred to me as a spin-off of what you said.

 

[intothewoods]

No I realize - that just occurred to me as a spin-off of what you said.

heh - I'm slow. I was trying to figure out if that was directed to me or...? It's Friday!

 

[BiBunny]

Can I be a cunt for minute? (It's that time of month; I'm entitled, dammit. Major rant ahead.)

This is, I think, the stupidest phenomenon ever. You see it in the vanilla world, too, but it's so much more obvious in the BDSM world, for whatever reason. In the BDSM sub-sect, it's even MORE obvious in the online-only folks. (I'm not trying to turn this into an online vs. real-life debate. This is just an observation from my end.)

No submissive NEEDS a man (or woman, but you usually see this phenomenon in the male Dom/female sub dynamic). If you NEED somebody in order to function, then you're a damned shitty submissive and fucking useless to a Dom/me to boot. I understand that we all fall prey to our insecurities occasionally, but, honestly, if you're going to be the kind of submissive that 99.9% of dominants want, you need to deal with your shit first before you ever even think about a relationship. There was a thread in Talk that was bumped up recently that epitomizes this statement, but I won't call names.

There are many, many, many people into BDSM because they are fucked up in the head. I'm sorry, but it's true. I think they're drawn to BDSM because of the whole "white-knight Dom/me who can save me from my terrible, terrible life" idea. (There are many, many, many people into BDSM who are not fucked up in the head, too, so don't crucify me for that statement). These kinds of people thrive on drama, and they're attention whores. When they're called out for their bullshit, they'll blame anybody but themselves. "My childhood" is a popular excuse, but let's face it--nobody had the perfect childhood, and while it's understandable to have a few hang-ups leftover from your not-perfect childhood, you can't blame everything on that! There's a point in your life where YOU'RE responsible for everything that happens to you. Until you're willing to stand up and be a real man/woman and face that responsibility, no Dom/me worth his/her salt is going to want you, which is why you see these kinds of people in and out of relationships so much. They latch onto the first person who'll give 'em a shred of attention. That person's usually an HNG or an online-wannabe player, so, of course the relationship won't last long. If, in fact, this sub hits on the genuine article, the poor Dom/me's going to cut and run as soon as he/she realizes how fucked up this person is.

Can you tell my pet peeve of the moment? I EARNED my collar, goddammit, through submission, service, and love. It's made of leather, steel, and blood, sweat, and tears, not fucking Velcro. I didn't have it given to me just because I made myself into the flavor of the week for any given asshole. I'll fight to defend my Master and my relationship, even if it's not ideal, because I believe in what that collar stands for. And for that reason, I'm damn proud of it, and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers. These attention-whorish drifter subs are, in my mind, an embarrassment to those of us who've given so much of ourselves to earn our places at our rightful Owners' sides.

Feel free to flame away. I probably deserve it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Can I be a cunt for minute? (It's that time of month; I'm entitled, dammit. Major rant ahead.)

This is, I think, the stupidest phenomenon ever. You see it in the vanilla world, too, but it's so much more obvious in the BDSM world, for whatever reason. In the BDSM sub-sect, it's even MORE obvious in the online-only folks. (I'm not trying to turn this into an online vs. real-life debate. This is just an observation from my end.)

No submissive NEEDS a man (or woman, but you usually see this phenomenon in the male Dom/female sub dynamic). If you NEED somebody in order to function, then you're a damned shitty submissive and fucking useless to a Dom/me to boot. I understand that we all fall prey to our insecurities occasionally, but, honestly, if you're going to be the kind of submissive that 99.9% of dominants want, you need to deal with your shit first before you ever even think about a relationship. There was a thread in Talk that was bumped up recently that epitomizes this statement, but I won't call names.

There are many, many, many people into BDSM because they are fucked up in the head. I'm sorry, but it's true. I think they're drawn to BDSM because of the whole "white-knight Dom/me who can save me from my terrible, terrible life" idea. (There are many, many, many people into BDSM who are not fucked up in the head, too, so don't crucify me for that statement). These kinds of people thrive on drama, and they're attention whores. When they're called out for their bullshit, they'll blame anybody but themselves. "My childhood" is a popular excuse, but let's face it--nobody had the perfect childhood, and while it's understandable to have a few hang-ups leftover from your not-perfect childhood, you can't blame everything on that! There's a point in your life where YOU'RE responsible for everything that happens to you. Until you're willing to stand up and be a real man/woman and face that responsibility, no Dom/me worth his/her salt is going to want you, which is why you see these kinds of people in and out of relationships so much. They latch onto the first person who'll give 'em a shred of attention. That person's usually an HNG or an online-wannabe player, so, of course the relationship won't last long. If, in fact, this sub hits on the genuine article, the poor Dom/me's going to cut and run as soon as he/she realizes how fucked up this person is.

Can you tell my pet peeve of the moment? I EARNED my collar, goddammit, through submission, service, and love. It's made of leather, steel, and blood, sweat, and tears, not fucking Velcro. I didn't have it given to me just because I made myself into the flavor of the week for any given asshole. I'll fight to defend my Master and my relationship, even if it's not ideal, because I believe in what that collar stands for. And for that reason, I'm damn proud of it, and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers. These attention-whorish drifter subs are, in my mind, an embarrassment to those of us who've given so much of ourselves to earn our places at our rightful Owners' sides.

Feel free to flame away. I probably deserve it.

LOL, won't get any flaming from me....couldn't have said it better myself!!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1406/770880984_37a9c0b007_t.jpg Catalina

 

[intothewoods]

There are many, many, many people into BDSM because they are fucked up in the head. I'm sorry, but it's true. I think they're drawn to BDSM because of the whole "white-knight Dom/me who can save me from my terrible, terrible life" idea. (There are many, many, many people into BDSM who are not fucked up in the head, too, so don't crucify me for that statement). These kinds of people thrive on drama, and they're attention whores. When they're called out for their bullshit, they'll blame anybody but themselves. "My childhood" is a popular excuse, but let's face it--nobody had the perfect childhood, and while it's understandable to have a few hang-ups leftover from your not-perfect childhood, you can't blame everything on that! There's a point in your life where YOU'RE responsible for everything that happens to you. Until you're willing to stand up and be a real man/woman and face that responsibility, no Dom/me worth his/her salt is going to want you, which is why you see these kinds of people in and out of relationships so much. They latch onto the first person who'll give 'em a shred of attention. That person's usually an HNG or an online-wannabe player, so, of course the relationship won't last long. If, in fact, this sub hits on the genuine article, the poor Dom/me's going to cut and run as soon as he/she realizes how fucked up this person is.

This touches on two points for me. First of all, although I get your point, you shouldn't stand up and be a real man/woman and face responsbility because you'll get a good Dom/me, but because it's good for you! I'm sure you know this, but I just think it's worth pointing out. You're not worth anything to yourself if you haven't sorted out your shit. Forget a PYL!

Second, the crazies in this life. I was thinking about this last night. I mean, we all have issues. But I was thinking to myself, if more people than not are messed up in this scene (real life and online), is it even worth it? Especially if at the end of the day, I don't even want a 24/7 D/s relationship. I don't know. Just something I'm thinking about.

 

[nowgirl]

I see this all the time - one moment posting how in lust/love/owned they are. Then shattered - simply shattered - and posting how devastated they are... what an asshole the other person is... and within the week - "owned" by someone else. Is it the immediacy of the internet? The drama? The fact something in real life is missing??

There are many, many, many people into BDSM because they are fucked up in the head. I'm sorry, but it's true. I think they're drawn to BDSM because of the whole "white-knight Dom/me who can save me from my terrible, terrible life" idea. (There are many, many, many people into BDSM who are not fucked up in the head, too, so don't crucify me for that statement). These kinds of people thrive on drama, and they're attention whores.

It's interesting topic... when I first decided to explore D/s online, I got swept up in the.... lustiness?? of the attention from "Doms" who saw my naivete (and admittedly my horniness & desire to "be a sub") a thousand miles away. I learned - very quickly - no one deserves to be Dominant or submissive simply because he/she thinks they are. It takes a long time to earn that place... that respect. Sure - you might meet someone you "instantly" click with... and you might get immediate gratification from playing on-line... and it could lead to something more (as I've seen here)...

I think of the "subs" who bat their eyelashes and wriggle their butts and say "and will you spank me for that?" hoping they will be spanked for some intentionally bratty behavior.

BiBunny makes a passionate point and one that is so true:

Can you tell my pet peeve of the moment? I EARNED my collar, goddammit, through submission, service, and love. It's made of leather, steel, and blood, sweat, and tears, not fucking Velcro. I didn't have it given to me just because I made myself into the flavor of the week for any given asshole. I'll fight to defend my Master and my relationship, even if it's not ideal, because I believe in what that collar stands for. And for that reason, I'm damn proud of it, and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers. These attention-whorish drifter subs are, in my mind, an embarrassment to those of us who've given so much of ourselves to earn our places at our rightful Owners' sides.

Well - my two cents. I don't post much here... just lurk around & play in the playground for some harmless fun... but I see this happen quite often & decided to jump in the fray.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

I see this all the time - one moment posting how in lust/love/owned they are. Then shattered - simply shattered - and posting how devastated they are... what an asshole the other person is... and within the week - "owned" by someone else. Is it the immediacy of the internet? The drama? The fact something in real life is missing??

Within a week? <snort> I've seen within hours!

 

[Krinaia]

There is a fine but clear line between indulging in kink because it arouses you as a result of experiences that have influenced who you are and indulging in kink because it keeps you from dealing with those same issues.

I'm not sure how clearly stated that was. I also am not attempting to say where that crossover happens - I'm still dealing with trying to figure out where it happens for me.

 

[Life_Noir]

Can I be a cunt for minute? (It's that time of month; I'm entitled, dammit. Major rant ahead.)

This is, I think, the stupidest phenomenon ever. You see it in the vanilla world, too, but it's so much more obvious in the BDSM world, for whatever reason. In the BDSM sub-sect, it's even MORE obvious in the online-only folks. (I'm not trying to turn this into an online vs. real-life debate. This is just an observation from my end.)

No submissive NEEDS a man (or woman, but you usually see this phenomenon in the male Dom/female sub dynamic). If you NEED somebody in order to function, then you're a damned shitty submissive and fucking useless to a Dom/me to boot. I understand that we all fall prey to our insecurities occasionally, but, honestly, if you're going to be the kind of submissive that 99.9% of dominants want, you need to deal with your shit first before you ever even think about a relationship. There was a thread in Talk that was bumped up recently that epitomizes this statement, but I won't call names.

There are many, many, many people into BDSM because they are fucked up in the head. I'm sorry, but it's true. I think they're drawn to BDSM because of the whole "white-knight Dom/me who can save me from my terrible, terrible life" idea. (There are many, many, many people into BDSM who are not fucked up in the head, too, so don't crucify me for that statement). These kinds of people thrive on drama, and they're attention whores. When they're called out for their bullshit, they'll blame anybody but themselves. "My childhood" is a popular excuse, but let's face it--nobody had the perfect childhood, and while it's understandable to have a few hang-ups leftover from your not-perfect childhood, you can't blame everything on that! There's a point in your life where YOU'RE responsible for everything that happens to you. Until you're willing to stand up and be a real man/woman and face that responsibility, no Dom/me worth his/her salt is going to want you, which is why you see these kinds of people in and out of relationships so much. They latch onto the first person who'll give 'em a shred of attention. That person's usually an HNG or an online-wannabe player, so, of course the relationship won't last long. If, in fact, this sub hits on the genuine article, the poor Dom/me's going to cut and run as soon as he/she realizes how fucked up this person is.

Can you tell my pet peeve of the moment? I EARNED my collar, goddammit, through submission, service, and love. It's made of leather, steel, and blood, sweat, and tears, not fucking Velcro. I didn't have it given to me just because I made myself into the flavor of the week for any given asshole. I'll fight to defend my Master and my relationship, even if it's not ideal, because I believe in what that collar stands for. And for that reason, I'm damn proud of it, and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers. These attention-whorish drifter subs are, in my mind, an embarrassment to those of us who've given so much of ourselves to earn our places at our rightful Owners' sides.

Feel free to flame away. I probably deserve it.

Well.... That was amazingly sensible... And uncommonly forthright for the internet...

 

[BiBunny]

This touches on two points for me. First of all, although I get your point, you shouldn't stand up and be a real man/woman and face responsbility because you'll get a good Dom/me, but because it's good for you! I'm sure you know this, but I just think it's worth pointing out. You're not worth anything to yourself if you haven't sorted out your shit. Forget a PYL!

ITW, you're right that one should face responsibility because it's good for oneself. I really meant to put that in my post somewhere, but, uh, yeah...I kind of got on a soapbox. I can think a lot faster than I can type sometimes. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[GentleSub_Ivy]

There is a fine but clear line between indulging in kink because it arouses you as a result of experiences that have influenced who you are and indulging in kink because it keeps you from dealing with those same issues.

I'm not sure how clearly stated that was. I also am not attempting to say where that crossover happens - I'm still dealing with trying to figure out where it happens for me.

I agree about that fine line. I feel like I am walking it. Sometimes indulging in kink can help you to face those issues you have been dealing with. I personally don't believe any of us enter a relationship without any baggage. Some just have more than others and some have learned and practiced communication and coping skills.

 

[the_pet]

Perhaps it's discriminatory on my part but I do expect anyone identifying as a dominant to have at least the most basic handle on the immense level of responsibility partnership with a submissive holds. Sorry to say anyone presenting as 'collared' in a short time frame falls into role-player status for me from both sides of the equation.

I had to nod at this because i come across many that don't have a clue on both sides. I love the ones that want to flex their Dom muscle trying to impress me but don't even bother to ask for a picture of what i look like from the neck up! I mean really......

I don't think the phenom of sub-drift is isolated to BDSMer's exclusive. It's a people in general thing IMO.

 

[RawHumor]

I had to nod at this because i come across many that don't have a clue on both sides. I love the ones that want to flex their Dom muscle trying to impress me but don't even bother to ask for a picture of what i look like from the neck up! I mean really......

I don't think the phenom of sub-drift is isolated to BDSMer's exclusive. It's a people in general thing IMO.

Heh. And here I consider myself a nuisance when I want to see what someone's face looks like. Understandably, a lot of people are reluctant to show their face to someone... I love it when women have avatars of their own face. It helps me envision being right there talking to her.

 

[the_pet]

I love it when women have avatars of their own face. It helps me envision being right there talking to her.

see.... now that's nice!

...and i understand that many have privacy issues, i have some myself but don't mind sharing if comfortable with the person and asked.

pet

 

[Chris_Xavier]

I'm always reluctant to ask for a face pic when chatting w/ someone for the first time for several reasons, don't want to seem shallow, it puts the person I'm chatting with on the defensive, and I would rather learn about the "contents of the book" rather than judging it by the cover.

Given that, if I'm asked for a face pic, I'll share mine but then I expect the favor to be returned.