Sub-dar? Domdar?

[Never]

Is there a sub vibe? A Dom/me vibe?
Have you ever gotten to know someone and just had a 'feeling' that they would be one or the other?

If you did get that feeling, how would you verify it? Do you think even think there would be outward signs?

Please enlighten.

 

[James Blandings]

I think there is to a limited extent. Some people are so naturally dominant or submissive that it just jumps off of them. Of course, they may be what you might call subjectively dom or sub, and don't focus it into anything like BDSM.
Other people though are what we used to call balancers, that is, people who are totally oposite in the scene to what they are in the rest of their life. You know, the old cliche about the powerful executive who wants to be a sissy maid or the meek little librarian who is a Dominatrix on the weekend. Those types can be harder to spot.
But people who say "Oh i can spot a sub a mile away" are mostly bluffing I think, no offense to those who've made jokes like that here, Of course, if you only say "I knew you were a sub" to people who have already announced it, you can acheive a 100% accuracy rate.

 

[cymbidia]

From the Mother Thread, page 40, Dec 18-19, 2001

I've read stories where Dom/mes just "knew" that someone was a sub in a completely non-BDSM setting without being told. I doubted the veracity of this to some extent, but I'm also wondering about it.

How do you know when another person is a Dom/me or a sub?

About the submission-detection:
I agree that many stories (including one of my own) oversimplify the process, but I do think that you can sense when someone is bent in similar kinks to your own. I don't know what it is...it's like what homosexual men call "Gaydar;" you can just *tell*. In some cases, there's physical evidence--people with brands, tattoos, and other permanent body transformations are likely suspects, for example. Sometimes it's how they automatically drop their heads a bit to listen, the way they *ask* to be heard, the care they take to acknowledge and show concern for all, or the way someone dresses to be attractive but not too showy, which might be seen as too willful, or prideful.
Somehow, I doubt that helps. *sigh* I tried. That counts, right?

I'm going to second RS's comment on this completely. YOU can see, in a person's mannerisms, whether they're a submissive or not. You can see it in the tilt of their head, in how and how often they talk, in their crowd interaction.

I suppose it could be like "gaydar", I"m not sure. I've never really had that one, but I tell you that I could pick just about every submissive ouf of a crowd, given some time to watch and talk to folks.

I was wondering... is there such a thing as a "closet" subbie or dominate? If so, can you also "spot" them from just watching them or listening to them talk? Kinda like the "gaydar" for closet homosexuals.

Yes, it is of interest. I can select male subs by tests in conversations, body movement, it is clear to me Of course, i have to be looking,

I have to agree cymbidia... it is not something that is easily explained... There is some kind of underlying energy between Dom/mes and subs... something so subtle that is only exists in our awareness of who we are...

I know in the approach of a Dom/me... how they speak to me, how they look at me. There is something that happens when I am approached... a catch in the breathe, a quickening of the pulse, a clinching in the stomach muscles... all this happens almost instanteously....

I thought about this last night, after I read the original postings, and for me I think is has more to do with my awareness of who I am... It has been like a light switch turn to the "on" position... once I really became aware of who I am, I can, in retrospect, look back and see situation after situation where those subtleties exsisted between myself and others....

I asked Himself once how he knew that others were submissives and he told me that he could just feel it... that he just knew... and that is the way it is for me.... I just know....

Side conversation: I'm less good at spotting Dom/mes, I've noticed; it certainly happens less often. This might be because I only have only subbed to males, and I'm not really *looking* at men anymore (and haven't in a long time). Maybe it's my weakness for submissive women. Or else there's just fewer Dom/mes than subs? I don't know. What do you all think?

P.B.W. Lifestylers are easier to spot; there's a reciprocal charge, as cym mentioned. I think, though, that "closet" BDSMers are fairly easy to spot, at least when they already know that they're looking for something. (Perhaps this is why I notice more subs...they're drawn to my dominant side, and expose their submissiveness more.)

Well.

After reading this, I can look at quite a few interactions I've had with others, and I can see how I confuse the hell out of people who spend a lot of time near me. I've got two modes that I run at, and which one I'm in seems to depend entirely on who I'm interacting with. It seems that I'm reacting to signals I never knew I was recieving; either brief glances down, or averting my eyes from people whose mannerisms, tone of voice, etc. indicate a confidence and force of personality I don't posess, along with a sudden heightened focus on what they're saying to me, or when someone seems to be sending me similar signals, mannerisms which tell me that the other person might be submissive, I just kick into what I've always thought of as my "Warrior" mode; calm, confident. "In Command", for want of a better description.

I've had the eyes-locking thing happen to me a few times, too, and didn't immediately recognise which role I was in until the eye contact was broken, either by me blushing and looking away, or by a little smile and nod. Similar signals, in reverse.

I guess people react to everything about a person, even when they don't realize it.

 

[Never]

Pity they closed that thread.

Thank you cymbidia, however, I am a bit confused. You make it sound as though vanillas could never perceive these signals. Or, at least, could never be certain.

I brought this up because there is a woman in my cluster strikes me as being submissive. Still, I cannot place my mental finger on what aspect of her behavior or personality causes me to see that within her. On the contrary, she seems to deliberately place herself in positions of responsibility and therefore authority.

I would have disregarded impression long ago if it wasn't so persistent. It is not as though it's any of my business anyways but I wish I figure her out.

 

[DVS]

Other people though are what we used to call balancers, that is, people who are totally oposite in the scene to what they are in the rest of their life. You know, the old cliche about the powerful executive who wants to be a sissy maid or the meek little librarian who is a Dominatrix on the weekend.

My present sub is a balancer, but I never heard it with an actual term. She is an ex-executive type who was the only woman on a board of directors for a large hospital corp. And, even she is confused about how submissive she is, because in the rest of her life she is so dominant. It is like she is two different people. But I like them both. Yes, I do have a preference, some of the time.

I also tend to have Gay-dar, if there is such a thing. Be it with males of females, I have always been able to tell. I have also been able to tell the dominant partner in a gay or lesbian relationship.
Bi people are much more difficult to read. And when it comes hetros, knowing who is sub and who is Dom, forget it. I am lost with that. Sometimes it's obvious if you know it is a D/s couple, but not always. I am hetro, so is it difficult for me to tell because of that?

And, it is not possible for me to put this into words. Like others have said, it is just a way they are. The way they talk, act, walk and associate with others.

I have several gay friends and some of them have said they can tell I am a Dom. Actually, I am lost at that, too. I don't feel I act like a Dom, but maybe there is something to this, but you can't be too close to the person (sexually) to tell.

Still, this is an interesting topic. I wish I could tell female subs ahead of time. It would save me some embarassment, to say the least.

 

[cymbidia]

Pity they closed that thread.

Thank you cymbidia, however, I am a bit confused. You make it sound as though vanillas could never perceive these signals. Or, at least, could never be certain.

"They" didn't close the thread, Never, we did. All of us who were here at that time decided to close that thread. When we got this forum, Never, we closed the thread that started it all, yes, but only to new posts. One can still go read it if they like.

No one here, including the moderators, has been high-handed about any of the decisions that have been made in this forum. It's not our way.

Additionally, i almost never mean what i say to be exclusionary in nature - and i never have. In my life, with respect to things of a BDSM nature, i'm inclusive in my thinking/actions/feelings/etc rather than exclusive. I'm pretty sure my words through all these months will bolster that assertion.

Sometimes it's difficult to express something as intangible as what we're talking about here in a way that includes every single bit of intelligent life on the planet, Never. Sometimes one can only speak for oneself and those most like oneself. Such is life.

Your friend may well be like us.
Ask her.
Gently.
Give her an opportunity to talk about it. She may be very lonely with respect to sharing that part of herself if it is, indeed, her core sexuality.

 

[DustyWolfe]

I think that such exists. Domme's can spot me from a mile away it seems. Just because I am so very submissive though. I generally walk with my hands behind my back lol.

 

[Never]

cymbidia
"They" didn't close the thread, Never, we did. All of us who were here at that time decided to close that thread. When we got this forum, Never, we closed the thread that started it all, yes, but only to new posts. One can still go read it if they like.

No one here, including the moderators, has been high-handed about any of the decisions that have been made in this forum. It's not our way.

Additionally, i almost never mean what i say to be exclusionary in nature - and i never have. In my life, with respect to things of a BDSM nature, i'm inclusive in my thinking/actions/feelings/etc rather than exclusive. I'm pretty sure my words through all these months will bolster that assertion.

Sometimes it's difficult to express something as intangible as what we're talking about here in a way that includes every single bit of intelligent life on the planet, Never. Sometimes one can only speak for oneself and those most like oneself. Such is life.

Your friend may well be like us.
Ask her.
Gently.
Give her an opportunity to talk about it. She may be very lonely with respect to sharing that part of herself if it is, indeed, her core sexuality."

My bad. Pity you closed that thread then.

Ask her gently? Make things hard for me, why don't you? I think we need to come up with some secret hand gestures or something.

 

[cymbidia]

But we do have a secret handshake, Never. Kinda. The BDSM emblem is our secret handshake. I've had a pewter one hanging from my keychain for years and another set of gold-toned emblems in the form of stud earrings.

What does the BDSM Emblem mean?

The BDSM emblem has no "obvious" symbolism because it was created to be enigmatic. To the vanilla observer who would be put off by BDSM, it is merely an attractive piece of jewelry. Thus, we can wear it freely as a friendly salute, nod, and wink to other BDSMers we should happen to pass on the sidewalks and in the hallways of our daily lives.

To the insider, however, the Emblem is full of meaning.

The three divisions represent the various threesomes of BDSM. First of all, the three divisions of BDSM itself: B&D, D&S, and S&M. Secondly, the three-way creed of BDSM behavior: Safe, Sane, and Consensual. Thirdly, the three divisions of our community: Tops, Bottoms, and Switches.

It is this third symbolism that gives meaning to the holes in each unit. Since BDSM is at the very least a play style and at its greatest a love style, the holes represent the incompleteness of any individual within the BDSM context. However "together" and "whole" individuals may be, there remains a void within them that can only be filled by a complimentary other. BDSM cannot be done alone.

The resemblance to a three-way variation on the Yin-Yang symbol is not accidental. As the curved outline of Yin and Yang represent the hazy border between where one ends and the other begins, so do the curved borders here represent the indistinct divisions between B&D, D&S, and S&M.

The metal and metallic color of the medallion represents the chains or irons of BDSM servitude/ownership. The three inner fields are black, representing a celebration of the controlled dark side of BDSM sexuality.

The curved lines themselves can be seen as a stylized depiction of a lash as it swings, or even an arm in motion to deliver an erotic spanking. The all-embracing circle, of course, represents the overlying unity of it all and the oneness of a community that protects its own.

http://members.aol.com/quagmyr/meaning.htm

 

[superlittlegirl]

oh, how wonderful!

Thanks for the insight into the symbology, cymbidia! I had no idea that there was a symbol for BDSM. I guess I should have known, because every subgroup of sexuality does seem to have physical signifiers, but I just had never even considered that there might be an official one for BDSM. I guess it might be because I am not actively out and about looking for play partners, because surely if I was in the market, I would have thought to ask about an easy to spot sign.

When I first came out as a lesbian (before eventually coming out as bi) I scanned the horizon for rainbows and labrys. I had to cut all of my hair off before any woman would take me seriously, and take me to bed, though. That was the "symbol" that women in my town were looking for in those days, as a sign of "authentic" lesbianism, I guess. I feel rather scornful of that now, in a way, because it was a demand for conformity I bent to in my desperation for the kind of fucking I knew I needed, but it was right for me then. And my hair is long again, after seven years. (It was actually quite wonderful to cut the hair off, because it instantly de-sexualized me to harrassing men, and sexualized me to potential female sex-partners. It was my own personal flashing neon sign that said "this is a babydyke!")

[This next part is probably presumptuous and arrogant, but I'll step out onto a limb for the sake of the question (for the consumption of all)]

I've since realized that detecting women who like women has nothing to do with hair length, or mode of dress, or any symbolic attachments. It's all in the eyes. I can usually look into a woman's eyes and tell if she's into other women or not. If she holds my eyes for just a fraction longer than is normal, I feel pretty sure. And then there's that flicker of recognition; a certain something. I haven't been in the company of enough BDSM minded individuals to know how to recognize them by the eyes, or even to know if that's possible. Has anyone out there found this to be effective? I mean sure, if you're dressed head to toe in black leather before going to a fetish party and the clerk in the QuickieMart gives you an appreciative once over, you can suspect she's into BDSM or just kinky. But in more benign (and less outwardly obvious) circumstances, have you found that "the eyes have it" with BDSM people as well?

Is she or isn't she is my personal game I've played for years. Are others as entertained by this as I am?

--Freya

 

[James Blandings]

That Gaydar "are they or arent they" game is harmless fun, I think that most of us do it to some extent. I live in what you might call the "gay ghetto" area of the Detroit area, so chances are many of the people I run into every day are gay.
By the way, there is a store in my neighborhood that flies not only the gay pride rainbow flag, but also the BDSM flag on the front of their bulding. It makes me real proud of the community here.

 

[NemoAlia]

Oooh... I've known about the symbol, but I've never been able to figure out where to buy a wearable one for myself. Now my new ring is on its way to me!

 

[s'lara]

Bump-worthy thread which kind of compliments catalina's thread about overt/covert Dominants.

So ... can you tell? Are there "signs" which let us know when someone is Dominant or submissive? Remember, not everyone walks around in the gear so what sends up your spidey-sense when you think someone is of the BDSM persuasion?

lara

P.S. Sorry Never, but i thought it a good topic. Particularly a good discussion topic for those new to the lifestyle and looking for a way to distinguish between posers and those genuinely interested in, and a part of BDSM.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Think there are some which just scream it without trying, but is not always the way. I remember when I went back to my education a few years back and one of my favourite teachers saying to me with a smile, 'God help any man who ever tried to tell you what to do or bend you to his will.' Is rather ironic I think. LOL.

Catalina http://www.logtenberg.info/sex/18+38.gif

 

[Quint]

T and I introduced our good friend R to the concept of D/s (geez, all these single-letter-abbreviations make me look like I'm talking in code. Dork.) and when we'd meet new people, she would occasionally burst out "You're such a dom!" It was cute, like a little kid using a big word they don't exactly know the meaning of. In the example I'm thinking of, I'm not entirely sure she was correct. The woman is undeniably aggressive and controlling but I would not say she would be dominant in her relationships by choice or desire, but more likely by insecurity. Pity, too.

So I guess I'm saying that not all people who flag it, live it.

 

[BlueSugar]

Yes!

I was in a porno store the other day that I just found on the island, and I was walking up and down the isles taking everything in, checking out the toys and other stuff they had in there. And I saw this guy just walking around, nothing called out to me about him... but this vibe I kept catching was totally Dom. I bumped into him a few times (apparently I was in there for more then an hour lol) but he made me want to look at my feet and nothing else.

He walked out with a red ball gag and some slapper type thing.

So i suppose I was right.

 

[ownedsubgal]

oh yes, i can definitely sense when a person is Dominant or submissive, or rather if they are what i would consider naturally Dom or sub, meaning it's a consuming personality trait throughout all they do. so whether a person is actually involved in the D/s lifestyle or not, i rarely have a clue...but i can trade a simple "hello" with a man, and just know he is a Dominant person. i can see a certain shy, stumbling, slightly nervous look in a girl's eyes, and just know she is a submissive.

 

[sunfox]

I suppose I have to fall under that catagory of 'balancers' then.. I am very much in control in all aspects of daily life, making sure everyone eats, gets what they need, the house is properly taken care of, stocked.. my classes, my work, my hobbies.

But when it comes to a sexual relationship, I am very uncomfortable being at all in control. I hate it... don't know what to do, just plain feel stupid. In all ways, when it is in that particular aspect, I am submissive. So while I identify myself as a sub, to people's 'subdar' I would probably feel rather Dominant.

But then again, I always was a pain in the ass.

My SO, on the other hand, seems very quiet and introspective, not easy with meeting people, more introverted, gives in to what I say and looks to me for decisions. But in our personal time, he is very good at being dominating.

Some of us are sneaky, I think.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Originally posted by s'lara

So ... can you tell? Are there "signs" which let us know when someone is Dominant or submissive? Remember, not everyone walks around in the gear so what sends up your spidey-sense when you think someone is of the BDSM persuasion?

Well, I can easily perceive which women are up for non-vanilla things. The spidey-sense for that is just based on personality and the way they carry themselves. How they laugh at a joke or you can see them making additional connections about innuendos. I sort of get the "partner in crime" vibe from them. I could write pages but it is just a combination of simple observations.

Now....that still leaves two big questions. Does she have any interest in me? And does she have an interest in BDSM? Just because a woman is "open-minded" does not mean she will fit into my neat little box of what I want from prospective submissives.

So once I have the first screening, which is mostly reflex, I actually think and use logic for the second stage. I compare their attitudes to what I have personally experienced. The first vanilla/non-vanilla screening is natural while the second screening seems to be based on life experience. Maybe I am not natural enough in my secibd evaluation process. Maybe I am still learning and unsure of myself. Or maybe I will never fully appreciate the submissive mindset and must forever use my crude heuristics?

 

[hurtme]

I don't know how much of it is "radar" and how much of it is common sense...I like to joke that deep down, we are all something, even as a switch, often you lean towards one side or the other just a little. Knowing that, I look for distinct character traits that I think make a person one way or the other. then agian, I have been wrong...there was this guy I knew, and he was rather meek, and mild and rather unsure of himself, and all him mannerisms pointed to him being a submissive kind of guy, but he was nice ( not to mentoin drop dead gorgeous), so I said what the hell, and I went out with him, and as soon as we got behind closed doors I suddenly saw a completely different side of him, one that was obviously dom through and through...

 

[WildRose40DDD]

Dom/Domme or not

People often characterize me as dominant, even knowing I am in the lifestyle. Mainly because I guess I am a balancer by the definition used here. I always just laugh and say it is because I am a Gemini, I keep the two halves seperate lol.

Have met one person that we had that spark of recognition. He knew instantly I was sub and I knew instantly he was a Dom. It was only later, after getting to know each other that we each were able to confirm our initial reactions.