stumped on the river

[My Erotic Tale]

as some of you know I have asked for
some assistance for a local poetry contest
and well ... damn it I'm still looking for an
answer,

there's that dumb ass red neck asking
questions about poems again <laughin'>

okay, I have two questions ...

1) what is a sonnet,
(I found in the poetry basics site)
that a sonnet is 14 lines but what about
the ryhm scheme, how does it go
every other line rhyme or lines together ryhme
I read a few shakespeare sonnets and I guess
thats when I went into a tail spin <hehehey!>
I saw there are several types of sonnets then
I knew I was in trouble~

2) the theme for this contest is ...

"My Favorite Valentine"

now I have thought about this a long time
how can you say , my favorite valentine
as opposed to what? the worse?
any ideas here cause the two ideas I have
are faint. I'm no stranger to the loss of a very
dear loved one so that would be my topic
but that's not what they want to hear I
believe so I'm all ears to ideas as well ...

this reminds me of the farmer to proud to ask for
help loading his bails of hay and he's to old to
do it himself so the hay mildews and spoils
in the morning dew from ... pride? so I won't
be the farmer ....HELP HELP HELP !!! HEHEHEY!

 

[My Erotic Tale]

thanks fohen ...


Sonnets are 14 lines of rhymed poetry in "iambic pentameter" meter.

The traditional English sonnet has a rhyme scheme that goes something like this, where letters represent words that rhyme with each other: A B A B C D C D E F E F GG

"Iambic" comes from "iamb," which is a unit of "meter" in a poem. You notice when we talk, or read, we give slight emphasis to some parts of words. We don't say, "oil FIELD," we say, "OIL field," for example. Not "cotTON" but "COTton."

Linguists made some symbols for the emphasized syllables, and the non-emphasized syllables. These are called "stressed" and "unstressed" -- an "iamb" is composed of one unstressed syllable and one stressed one. Here are some words that are iambs:

adVICE
comPLAIN
enDEAR
unDONE

But "iambs" can use half of one word and part of another, too. The main idea of "pentameter" ('penta' means 5) is that there are 5 metric feet, mostly consisting of iambs.

However, the most successful and famous authors of sonnets have rarely used "perfect" iambic pentameter, because it is boring to listen to. The main thing that most poets try to do with sonnets is to include 5 strong stresses and 5 or so weak stresses, and make at least 7 or 8 of the lines into regular iambic pentameter.

"I WENT| to SCHOOL| withOUT| my HOME| work DONE."

That's an iambic pentameter line.

After that, for a sonnet, you just need 13 more, with a rhyme scheme something like:

A done.
B fail.
A fun
B whale

C teacher
D pet
C preacher
D yet

E love
F hair
E above
F air

G place
G embrace.

 

[Angeline]

Here I am to help you, your sonnet advisor.

There are two types of sonnet--Italian and Elizabethan. Most people are more familiar with the Elizabethan form because it's the one Shakespeare used for his sonnets. I'll be talking about the Elizabethan (or English) form.

Yes, a sonnet has 14 lines, a specific rhyme scheme, and is written (traditionally) in iambic pentameter.

Here is the clearest description I can find of iambic pentameter from a geocities site, Red Writing.

Iambic pentameter is a way of positioning the sounds of syllables in a rhythmical pattern. It sounds almost like a drum. The rhythm goes like bomBOM bomBOM bomBOM bomBOM bomBOM. Say the following sentence out loud.
“Shall I compare thee to a summer's day”

In Iambic pentameter, there are 5 stressed syllables per line.
1. Shall-I
2.com-pare
3. thee-to
4.a-summ
5.er’s-day”

The best way to understand it is to read some of Shakespeare's sonnets and get the rhythm in your head. It becomes like a song.

When you start to write, you need to remember the rhyme scheme

A1
B1
A2
B2

C1
D1
C2
D2

E1
F1
E2
F2

G1
G2

Each line should have exactly ten syllables and follow iambic pentameter as closely as possible. Some places are stricter than others about the meter being perfect--some places don't care if you follow it at all.

Technically, a sonnet also has a thematic pattern. The first four lines introduce and describe the subject of the sonnet, the second four elaborate with an example, the third four make some statement that thematically defines the issue, and the last two lines summarize in a pithy way.

It sounds hard and it is at first, but the main thing is to get that rhythm in your head like music. Then it keeps getting easier.



Here's one I wrote a few years ago for an example. I don't think it's strict iambic pentameter, but you get the idea.

Iambic Dishabille

‘Tis oft said dress is a woman’s measure,
And the reason why fashion’s slaves are born.
Yet woman unclothed is man’s great pleasure--
His passion stirred by her garments half worn

Here missing button is a call for kiss,
There undone garter no cause for alarm,
The long hair tumbled free is lover’s bliss,
This sweet disheveled state is rumpled charm.

Woman appeals in ribbons part undone,
In straps that fall and shoes that slip from feet.
In dishabille man’s naked heart is won.
She feeds desire in dress incomplete.

Though proper clothing can be modern chic,
Improper disarray makes male knees weak.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Each line should have exactly ten syllables and follow iambic pentameter as closely as possible. Some places are stricter than others about the meter being perfect--some places don't care if you follow it at all.

Technically, a sonnet also has a thematic pattern. The first four lines introduce and describe the subject of the sonnet, the second four elaborate with an example, the third four make some statement that thematically defines the issue, and the last two lines summarize in a pithy way.

It sounds hard and it is at first, but the main thing is to get that rhythm in your head like music. Then it keeps getting easier.



Here's one I wrote a few years ago for an example. I don't think it's strict iambic pentameter, but you get the idea.

Iambic Dishabille

‘Tis oft said dress is a woman’s measure,
And the reason why fashion’s slaves are born.
Yet woman unclothed is man’s great pleasure--
His passion stirred by her garments half worn

Here missing button is a call for kiss,
There undone garter no cause for alarm,
The long hair tumbled free is lover’s bliss,
This sweet disheveled state is rumpled charm.

Woman appeals in ribbons part undone,
In straps that fall and shoes that slip from feet.
In dishabille man’s naked heart is won.
She feeds desire in dress incomplete.

Though proper clothing can be modern chic,
Improper disarray makes male knees weak.

woohoo my hero ...
never fear grasshoppers here ...
wow thanks ang~ and fohen...

I read several sites yesterday about sonnets
woke up this morning and all I knew was 14 lines
had no idea about the ryhm and or the ten
syllables, wow this won't be easy <grin>
but will be easier now that I'm lined out

thanks a million~
heading for the drawing board
any ideas on "my favorite valentines?"

 

[Angeline]

woohoo my hero ...
never fear grasshoppers here ...
wow thanks ang~ and fohen...

I read several sites yesterday about sonnets
woke up this morning and all I knew was 14 lines
had no idea about the ryhm and or the ten
syllables, wow this won't be easy <grin>
but will be easier now that I'm lined out

thanks a million~
heading for the drawing board
any ideas on "my favorite valentines?"

well think Valentine imagery, right?

St Valentine (you could tell his story)
Hearts, real ones, card with hearts, candy conversation hearts
Candy--chocolate
Flowers

and it's in February, so you could tie it to winter--making a heart in the snow, for example. Just let the old imagination run wild.

 

[jthserra]

The Italian or Petrarchian Sonnet

Modifies the layout a bit, dividing the poem into eight lines (two quatrains) followed by six lines (sestet). The rhyme scheme used to vary some until Petrarch pretty well tied down the form in the fourteenth century. (A touch of history gleaned from my forms book: An Exaltation of Forms edited by Annie Finch and Kathrine Varnes)

The rhyme scheme basically is as follows

a
b
b
a
a
b
b
a

with a variation for the last six lines:

c
d
e
c
d
e

or

c
d
e
e
d
c

or

c
c
d
d
e
e


More modern poets will sometimes work a second pair of rhymes in the first eight lines:

a
b
b
a
c
d
c
d

and then close with the three variations on the sestet.

e
f
g
e
f
g



Of course, if you wanted to chance getting tossed from the contest you can do like Gerald Stern and completely abandon the rhyme scheme, the meter and whatever and still call it a sonnet. You see, a sonnet is also a love song, without any poetic restraint.


jim : )

 

[Angeline]

I couldn't resist...

I had to put this poem in this thread because I think it's brilliant.

Sonnet
Billy Collins

All we need is fourteen lines, well, thirteen now,
and after this one just a dozen
to launch a little ship on love's storm-tossed seas,
then only ten more left like rows of beans.
How easily it goes unless you get Elizabethan
and insist the iambic bongos must be played
and rhymes positioned at the ends of lines,
one for every station of the cross.
But hang on here wile we make the turn
into the final six where all will be resolved,
where longing and heartache will find an end,
where Laura will tell Petrarch to put down his pen,
take off those crazy medieval tights,
blow out the lights, and come at last to bed.

 

[foehn]

brilliant! good feedback for MET

here's the only sonnet i have ever had published:



HOW TO HELP EACH OTHER UP


She’s sitting in the rocking chair that swivels
slightly with her breathing which resembles the bright
counterpoint to sight of cloud and gravel
during some noon slightly hotter than this night
in this house, fans all blending sultry air,
and she’s looking over her book at you on the floor
worn out by a less-than-two-year-old, and there
she’s seeing herself with your own eyes, with your
charm and grace, your manner of ownership.
Or so you imagine; that she sees the equivalence
of height and depth as you extend hands and grip
and pull and each rise to an aligned balance
in which oppression is forgotten, as iron filings forget
their weight sometimes, in response to a magnet.




--- i wrote this in my 30's when i could actually write things. Few of the rhymes in this poem are exact, and the meter is seriously deviant. but there are fourteen lines, and at least a *hint* of iambic pentameter. one of the hallmarks of modern poetry has been to first master, then deviate from accepted forms.


© foehn 2005

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: The Italian or Petrarchian Sonnet

Modifies the layout a bit, dividing the poem into eight lines (two quatrains) followed by six lines (sestet). The rhyme scheme used to vary some until Petrarch pretty well tied down the form in the fourteenth century. (A touch of history gleaned from my forms book: An Exaltation of Forms edited by Annie Finch and Kathrine Varnes)

The rhyme scheme basically is as follows

a
b
b
a
a
b
b
a

with a variation for the last six lines:

c
d
e
c
d
e

or

c
d
e
e
d
c

or

c
c
d
d
e
e


More modern poets will sometimes work a second pair of rhymes in the first eight lines:

a
b
b
a
c
d
c
d

and then close with the three variations on the sestet.

e
f
g
e
f
g



Of course, if you wanted to chance getting tossed from the contest you can do like Gerald Stern and completely abandon the rhyme scheme, the meter and whatever and still call it a sonnet. You see, a sonnet is also a love song, without any poetic restraint.


jim : )

holy cat shit ~

It looks easier to skin a grizzly bear live
<grinin'>

okay It aint as easy as it looks hehehe~

thank ya'll


oh ang~ dang girl I love the snow heart,
over a graves visit on valentines day perhaps?

 

[Liar]

Re: Re: The Italian or Petrarchian Sonnet

holy cat shit ~

It looks easier to skin a greizzly bear live
<grinin'>

Sonnets are easy. I mean, it's just....rhyme. You should try a villanelle. That's the real biyatch.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Sonnets don't necessarily have to rhyme, you know.

Here's one I wrote that breaks all classical rules but keeps all the defining characteristics of a sonnet:



Last Sonnet

I take this chaos
for my home

desertion of hands
shaped as grenades

lips lighter than day
resisting steal's temper

animal communion
in mechanical glades

sweat grown into rivers
in the edge of parched eyes

dry lips revisit
of inner peace

     tomorrow, I'll drink sun
     where tonight - dust.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Sonnets don't necessarily have to rhyme, you know.

Here's one I wrote that breaks all classical rules but keeps all the defining characteristics of a sonnet:



Last Sonnet

I take this chaos
for my home

desertion of hands
shaped as grenades

lips lighter than day
resisting steal's temper

animal communion
in mechanical glades

sweat grown into rivers
in the edge of parched eyes

dry lips revisit
of inner peace

     tomorrow, I'll drink sun
     where tonight - dust.

oh thats clever...<grin> I like that~

okay here's what I got so far, after first edit
I also feel a little rough around the word
'feelings'

open for suggestions there and

'touch of another'
is broken is that allowed or to hard to read?

OKAY CRITIC ME <<<<<<<<
I know I'm asking for it but here's your chance
Im a big boy I can take it .... <grin> 'cockin' 12 <smile>
any way day one, my first sonnet and may or may
not be the entry I use but a start,,,,

thanks ya'll


the theme: My Favorite Valentines
~~~~~~~~~~
How Many loved
By Art~

From Adam and Eve love sprout from seed
so many have searched to fill love's need
How many shared the joys and blessings
that come from love with shared feelings

How many broken hearts lay abreast
in the earth's bed for eternal slumber
Did each beating heart feel love's nest
generations of an eternal number

How many loved a one sided love
where their passion had no reflection
Their soul burned for the touch of
another mirroring this infatuation

I can account for only one in time
My Love, My Favorite Valentine

 

[My Erotic Tale]

okay here's what I got so far, after first edit
I also feel a little rough around the word
'feelings'

open for suggestions there and

'touch of another'
is broken is that allowed or to hard to read?

OKAY CRITIC ME <<<<<<<<
I know I'm asking for it but here's your chance
Im a big boy I can take it .... <grin> 'cockin' 12 <smile>
any way day one, my first sonnet and may or may
not be the entry I use but a start,,,,

thanks ya'll


the theme: My Favorite Valentines
~~~~~~~~~~

How Many loved
By Art~

From Adam and Eve love sprout from seed
so many have searched to fill love's need
How many shared the joys and blessings
that come from love with shared feelings

How many broken hearts lay abreast
in the earth's bed for eternal slumber
Did each beating heart feel love's nest
generations of an eternal number

How many loved a one sided love
where their passion had no reflection
Their soul burned for the touch of
another mirroring this infatuation

I can account for only one in time
My Love, My Favorite Valentine

hummmmmm!!!!!

 

[My Erotic Tale]

I wrote another today, now I need
to figure out the different kinds of sonnets

each rhyme scheme has a name?


Modifies the layout a bit, dividing the poem into eight lines (two quatrains) followed by six lines (sestet). The rhyme scheme used to vary some until Petrarch pretty well tied down the form in the fourteenth century. (A touch of history gleaned from my forms book: An Exaltation of Forms edited by Annie Finch and Kathrine Varnes)

The rhyme scheme basically is as follows

a
b
b
a
a
b
b
a

with a variation for the last six lines:

c
d
e
c
d
e

or

c
d
e
e
d
c

or

c
c
d
d
e
e


More modern poets will sometimes work a second pair of rhymes in the first eight lines:

a
b
b
a
c
d
c
d

and then close with the three variations on the sestet.

e
f
g
e
f
g



Of course, if you wanted to chance getting tossed from the contest you can do like Gerald Stern and completely abandon the rhyme scheme, the meter and whatever and still call it a sonnet. You see, a sonnet is also a love song, without any poetic restraint.

 

[foehn]

well...

for arbiters in Lubbock...

I'd stick to a pretty traditional sonnet.


I know what "Nuke-el-yer" means, when G. Bush says it...

...but Lubbock-ites aren't likely to be versed in the niceities of poetic variation.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Adam and Eve started loves sprout from seed
every one has search to fill love's deep need
lucky ones shared the joys and the blessings
that comes from a love with shared feelings

Numbers unknown of the broken hearts
in the deep earth bedded for deaths slumber
Did each beating heart feel passion's love Art
every soul that has live has felt love's thunder

How many loved a one sided love
where their passion had no reflection
Their soul burned for the touch of
another mirroring this infatuation

I can account for only one in time
My Love, My Favorite Valentine


okay working on it.... I got it....
like the poem ...hehehe~

well working on it...yep I re read it today
and it didnt flow like yesterday <grin>
and word useage????? limited <grin>

okay ty ...work in progress
watch your step ....

 

[My Erotic Tale]

thump thump thump thump

working on that drumming sound....

Adam and Eve started loves sprout from seed
every one has search to fill love's deep need
lucky ones shared the joys and the blessings
that comes from a love with shared feelings

Numbers unknown of the broken hearts
in the deep earth bedded for deaths slumber
Did each beating heart feel passion's love Art
every soul that has live has felt love's thunder

How many loved a one sided love
where their passion had no reflection
Their soul burned for the touch of
another mirroring this infatuation

I can account for only one in time
My Love, My Favorite Valentine

 

[My Erotic Tale]

thump thump thump thump

working on that drumming sound....

Adam and Eve started a love from seed
every one has search to fill love's deep need
lucky ones share the joys and the blessings
that comes from a love with shared feelings

Numbers unknown of the broken hearts
in the deep earth bedded for deaths slumber
Did each beating heart feel passion's love Art
every soul that has live has felt love's thunder

How many loved a one sided love
where their passion had no reflection
Their soul burned for the touch of
another mirroring this infatuation

I can account for only one in time
My Love, My Favorite Valentine

little here and a little there/?

 

[My Erotic Tale]

little here and a little there/?

Adam and Eve started a love from seed
every one has search to fill love's deep need
lucky ones share the joys and the blessings
that comes from a love with shared feelings

Numbers unknown of the broken hearts
in the deep earth bedded for deaths slumber
Did each beating heart feel passion's love Art
every soul that has live has felt love's thunder

How many loved a one sided love
where their passion had no reflection
Their soul burned for the touch of
another mirroring this infatuation

I can account for only one in time
My Love, My Favorite Valentine


thanks fohen ....
working on it

 

[My Erotic Tale]

revised

Adam and Eve started a love from seed
every one has search to fill love's deep need
lucky ones share the joys and the blessings
that comes from a love with shared feelings

Numbers unknown of the broken hearts
in the deep earth bedded for deaths slumber
Did each beating heart feel passion's love Art
every soul that has live has felt love's thunder

lonely is it one way but still a love
where their passion had no reflection <<<<<<mmmmm
Their soul burn for the touch of a hug
or a nother that can mirror their feelings

I can only account for one in time
My Love, My Favorite Valentine <<<<<<<<<


thanks fohen ....
working on it

okay I have a question <<<<
raises hand>>>>>>


how can it be a sonnet daDUM ta DUM
and have my favorite valentine????

all words must be two syllables? right?
hummmmmmm...grrrrrrrr

 

[seranade]

Re: revised

okay I have a question <<<<
raises hand>>>>>>


how can it be a sonnet daDUM ta DUM
and have my favorite valentine????

all words must be two syllables? right?
hummmmmmm...grrrrrrrr

well if it sounds more than twice, then it does not fit

hey Art

check out my new poem remember those teralingua runs on a soft tail harley, remember that bar slash shack, I figured you might!

If I had said back then you would be sitting around writing poetry you would have kicked my butt! lmao


(alby-around)

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Re: revised

okay I have a question <<<<
raises hand>>>>>>


how can it be a sonnet daDUM ta DUM
and have my favorite valentine????

all words must be two syllables? right?
hummmmmmm...grrrrrrrr

Wrong. A iamb only means that a strong syllable follows a weak one. They can be in the same word or not.

The only way for "my favourite valentine" to fit a iambic structure is if you read it as:

-my FA-v'rite VA-lenTINE.

-taDUM-taDUM-taDUM

(That's three iambs. For iambic pentameter, you need two more iambs in that verse.)

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Re: Re: revised

Wrong. A iamb only means that a strong syllable follows a weak one. They can be in the same word or not.

The only way for "my favourite valentine" to fit a iambic structure is if you read it as:

-my FA-v'rite VA-lenTINE.

-taDUM-taDUM-taDUM

(That's three iambs. For iambic pentameter, you need two more iambs in that verse.)

thanks lauren!
much appreciate it ...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Re: Re: revised

-my FA-v'rite VA-lenTINE.

-taDUM-taDUM-taDUM

(That's three iambs. For iambic pentameter, you need two more iambs in that verse.)

Actually:

-my LOVE, my FA-v'rite VA-lenTINE

There. Now you only need one more iamb. Maybe:

My ON/ly LOVE/ my FA/v'rite VA/lenTINE

There. Iambic Pentameter.

 

[The_Fool]

Sonnets.....