Study Suggests Difference in Lesbians' Brains

ABSTRUSE

Cirque du Freak
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WASHINGTON - Lesbians' brains react differently to sex hormones than those of heterosexual women, new research indicates.

That's in line with an earlier study that had indicated gay men's brain responses were different from straight men ? though the difference for men was more pronounced than has now been found in women.

Lesbians' brains reacted somewhat, though not completely, like those of heterosexual men, a team of Swedish researchers said in Tuesday's edition of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

A year ago, the same group reported findings for gay men that showed their brain response to hormones was similar to that of heterosexual women.

In both cases the findings add weight to the idea that homosexuality has a physical basis and is not learned behavior.

"It shows sexual orientation may very well have a different basis between men and women ... this is not just a mirror image situation," said Sandra Witelson, an expert on brain anatomy and sexual orientation at the Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario.

"The important thing is to be open to the likely situation that there are biological factors that contribute to sexual orientation," added Witelson, who was not part of the research team.

The research team led by Ivanka Savic at the Stockholm Brain Institute had volunteers sniff chemicals derived from male and female sex hormones. These chemicals are thought to be pheromones ? molecules known to trigger responses such as defense and sex in many animals.

Whether humans respond to pheromones has been debated, although in 2000 American researchers reported finding a gene that they believe directs a human pheromone receptor in the nose.

The same team reported last year on a comparison of the response of male homosexuals to heterosexual men and women. They found that the brains of gay men reacted more like those of women than of straight men.

The new study shows a similar, but weaker, relationship between the response of lesbians and straight men.

Heterosexual women found the male and female pheromones about equally pleasant, while straight men and lesbians liked the female pheromone more than the male one. Men and lesbians also found the male hormone more irritating than the female one, while straight women were more likely to be irritated by the female hormone than the male one.

All three groups rated the male hormone more familiar than the female one. Straight women found both hormones about equal in intensity, while lesbians and straight men found the male hormone more intense than the female one.

The brains of all three groups were scanned when sniffing male and female hormones and a set of four ordinary odors. Ordinary odors were processed in the brain circuits associated with smell in all the volunteers.

In heterosexual males the male hormone was processed in the scent area but the female hormone was processed in the hypothalamus, which is related to sexual stimulation. In straight women the sexual area of the brain responded to the male hormone while the female hormone was perceived by the scent area.

In lesbians, both male and female hormones were processed the same, in the basic odor processing circuits, Savic and her team reported.

Each of the three groups of subjects included 12 healthy, unmedicated, right-handed and HIV-negative individuals.

The research was funded by the Swedish Medical Research Council, Karolinska Institute and the Wallenberg Foundation.

___
 
In heterosexual males the male hormone was processed in the scent area but the female hormone was processed in the hypothalamus, which is related to sexual stimulation. In straight women the sexual area of the brain responded to the male hormone while the female hormone was perceived by the scent area.

In lesbians, both male and female hormones were processed the same, in the basic odor processing circuits, Savic and her team reported.

Seems odd that neither male nor female hormones are processed by the lesbian sex brain.
 
LadyJeanne said:
Seems odd that neither male nor female hormones are processed by the lesbian sex brain.


does that mean their brains just don't "see" males? :eek:
 
SelenaKittyn said:
does that mean their brains just don't "see" males? :eek:

if that's the case, it suggests they don't 'see' females either, at least not sexually.

The rest of it makes logical sense - lesbians respond to female hormones in similar way that straight males do...no big surprise.

The processing doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the theory (cause we know lesbians respond sexually to women; I'd expect they'd process the female hormones in the part of the brain that responds to sexual stimuli).
 
LadyJeanne said:
Seems odd that neither male nor female hormones are processed by the lesbian sex brain.


I think it's probably a good idea to keep in mind we are talking about Pheremones here. By and large, they don't have a great deal of influence in how humans choose sex partners any longer.

Rather than seeing it as the lesbian brain not processing either, I would think a more rational interpretation of the data is that Pheremones are an even less significant actor in the arousal patterns of lesbians than they are in het men or women. Since I personally believe the value in het relationships is nearly Nil, this would make the research rather puzzeling.

Of course it's in line with a good deal of research that seeks to explain homosexuality as a biological determinate behavior. It's in direct conflict with research that shows homosexuality is a behavioral determinate.
 
Of course it's in line with a good deal of research that seeks to explain homosexuality as a biological determinate behavior. It's in direct conflict with research that shows homosexuality is a behavioral determinate.

*nodding*

I'm just waiting for Ami to find this thread... :rolleyes:
 
Colleen Thomas said:
I think it's probably a good idea to keep in mind we are talking about Pheremones here. By and large, they don't have a great deal of influence in how humans choose sex partners any longer.

Rather than seeing it as the lesbian brain not processing either, I would think a more rational interpretation of the data is that Pheremones are an even less significant actor in the arousal patterns of lesbians than they are in het men or women. Since I personally believe the value in het relationships is nearly Nil, this would make the research rather puzzeling.

Of course it's in line with a good deal of research that seeks to explain homosexuality as a biological determinate behavior. It's in direct conflict with research that shows homosexuality is a behavioral determinate.

Pheremones don't do much? I always thought that was the 'chemistry' part that explains inexplicable attractions. That must be just plain old lust, then. Lusty sluts unite!
 
LadyJeanne said:
if that's the case, it suggests they don't 'see' females either, at least not sexually.

The rest of it makes logical sense - lesbians respond to female hormones in similar way that straight males do...no big surprise.

The processing doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the theory (cause we know lesbians respond sexually to women; I'd expect they'd process the female hormones in the part of the brain that responds to sexual stimuli).
Could it have anything to do with sex being of secondary concern to women? I rememer some bit of research outlining women's criterion for partnership beginning with intimacy and safety and eventually trickling down to sex, whereas most men began with the sex and eventualy trickled down to intimacy and family. Something like that. I wish I could remember more.

Just an idea, though, that if women's first concern is not sex then perhaps the identification of pheremones by a part of the brain dealing more with intimacy would be the correct reaction?

ETA: Or maybe not. I guess the straight women respond with the sex part of their brain with male pheremones. Must've missed that on the first reading. Conclusion: Lesbians are inexplicably weird. One of my favorite things about them, perhaps.

:rose:
 
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Colleen Thomas said:
I think it's probably a good idea to keep in mind we are talking about Pheremones here. By and large, they don't have a great deal of influence in how humans choose sex partners any longer.

I've got to disagree with you there. Scientific studies have shown that women tend to react to a chemical which I think is called AND-13, which is produced in male sweat. They're more likely to nominate a male as attractive when they're in the presence of AND-13 then when they're not. What's most interesting is that they were most affected by AND-13 that was produced by men with different geneology to them, suggesting that the brain processes AND-13 to check for a suitable mate.

Smell's a very important sense and we don't notice a heck of a lot of the effect that it has on us. We choose our sex partners by whom we find attractive and a large part of that decision of attractiveness will come from sensual impressions.

The Earl
 
lucky-E-leven said:
Could it have anything to do with sex being of secondary concern to women? I rememer some bit of research outlining women's criterion for partnership beginning with intimacy and safety and eventually trickling down to sex, whereas most men began with the sex and eventualy trickled down to intimacy and family. Something like that. I wish I could remember more.

Just an idea, though, that if women's first concern is not sex then perhaps the identification of pheremones by a part of the brain dealing more with intimacy would be the correct reaction?

ETA: Or maybe not. I guess the straight women respond with the sex part of their brain with male pheremones. Must've missed that on the first reading. Conclusion: Lesbians are inexplicably weird. One of my favorite things about them, perhaps.

:rose:

:D :D
 
It was an interesting article. My only complaints about the entire study was the very limited test group. 12 is hardly a good sampling of Lesbians. I mean, you have barely 6 couples, less if there is a menage or two happening. Secondly, why only right handers, no sinister lesbians?
 
Ulaven_Demorte said:
It was an interesting article. My only complaints about the entire study was the very limited test group. 12 is hardly a good sampling of Lesbians. I mean, you have barely 6 couples, less if there is a menage or two happening. Secondly, why only right handers, no sinister lesbians?

Don't righties and lefties process things differently in their brains? Maybe it would introduces an unnecessary variable?
 
LadyJeanne said:
Don't righties and lefties process things differently in their brains? Maybe it would introduces an unnecessary variable?
True. The reactions to everything would've appeared different, if only slightly, as right handed people process most motor/sensory things with the left side of their brain. My guess is that in order to see the brain scan more clearly they needed the right side to be clear or processing anything other than the test material. Again, just supposing.
 
I would suspect the link that all the subjects are Swedish has more to do with brain differences than their preferred sexuality.

Swedes can have a perverse and impish sense of humour. Perhaps the researchers were the ones who were misdirected?

Og
 
TheEarl said:
I've got to disagree with you there. Scientific studies have shown that women tend to react to a chemical which I think is called AND-13, which is produced in male sweat. They're more likely to nominate a male as attractive when they're in the presence of AND-13 then when they're not. What's most interesting is that they were most affected by AND-13 that was produced by men with different geneology to them, suggesting that the brain processes AND-13 to check for a suitable mate.

Smell's a very important sense and we don't notice a heck of a lot of the effect that it has on us. We choose our sex partners by whom we find attractive and a large part of that decision of attractiveness will come from sensual impressions.

The Earl

I haven't noticed too many guys, even of the really neadnertal persuasion pissing on the rug to mark their territoriy. I've gone out, in the period before my period when I should be "ready" and I never noticed guys beating each other sensless to get a crack at me (could just be me, I'm not all that hot at the best of times). Haven't seen too many of my freinds pass a guy in sweaty work clothes and just have to offer him a roll in the hay. Grew up in the deep south too, a black fellow could have bathed in pheremones and he wasn't getting a sniff, it just wasn't done.

My point then, isn't that pheremones have no concieveable effect, it was that humans as a species have advacned to the point where societal influences are a lot more important than who smells horny. It's pretty rare to see a guy and girl do the baboon island trick on the subway, no matter how they smell to one another.

They may affect your animal brain, but your animal brain is hopefully not in charge.

If a man is exuding al the right phremones, and hehappens to be well dresed, but he is selling pencils on rodeo drive, I doubt he gets offers to come on over to my place. Conversely, a guy so soaked in cologne you can hear him coming, may get that sort of offer if he's throwing money around and drives a Jag.

Next, humans are primarily visually oriented. Our ability to discern things to such a high degree visually, makes us less reliant on olfactory or aural input. A girl might smell like she was pussy heaven, but if she looks like rossane Barr after a weekend Bender, she probably isn't getting her dance card filled.

It seems obvious to me that pheremones then, are a secondary or even teriary influence. Even in couples who love each other and plan to fuck anyway, they are probably not as important as making sure the kids are still at the sitters and Bob has the night off.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
Next, humans are primarily visually oriented. Our ability to discern things to such a high degree visually, makes us less reliant on olfactory or aural input. A girl might smell like she was pussy heaven, but if she looks like rossane Barr after a weekend Bender, she probably isn't getting her dance card filled.
I love that. :D
 
Don't mistake me as saying that it's the primary sexual motivator. If that was the case then humans would have a far better sense of smell. However, there is a significant part of arousal and attraction, particularly in women, that is tied into olfactory receptors.

Just because you're aroused/attracted, doesn't mean that you do the baboon island trick on the subway.

Humans may be visual creatures, but it's that 'certain indefinable something' that will often seal the deal.

The Earl
 
Colleen Thomas said:
Next, humans are primarily visually oriented.

Yet another indicator that I'm odd. ;) This human is NOT primarily visually oriented.
 
impressive said:
Yet another indicator that I'm odd. ;) This human is NOT primarily visually oriented.

Yeah, same with me.

Gives me a unique perspective.
 
impressive said:
Yet another indicator that I'm odd. ;) This human is NOT primarily visually oriented.

I understand that men are visually oriented, whilst women tend to have more balance to the importance of their senses. Although I could be very wrong on that account.

The Earl
 
TheEarl said:
I understand that men are visually oriented, whilst women tend to have more balance to the importance of their senses. Although I could be very wrong on that account.

The Earl

I've been told I'm even MORE non-visually-oriented than most women. *shrug* Gotta do everything to extremes, I guess. ;)
 
TheEarl said:
I understand that men are visually oriented, whilst women tend to have more balance to the importance of their senses. Although I could be very wrong on that account.

The Earl

I'm really not about a balance of the senses. I think sound probably affects me more than most. Sound and touch. So the way someone sounds and the way they feel.

I think I'm prejudiced greatly against my vision. I don't trust it.
 
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