Study of fossils shows prehistoric fish had sex - yahoo.news

AllardChardon

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Study of fossils shows prehistoric fish had sex

By MICHAEL CASEY, AP Environmental Writer

BANGKOK, Thailand – The fossilized remains of two pregnant fish indicate that sex as we know it — fertilization of eggs inside a female — took place as much as 30 million years earlier than previously thought, researchers said Thursday.

Scientists from Australia and Britain studying 380 million-year-old fossils of the armored placoderm fish, or Incisoscutum richiei, said they were initially confused when they realized that the two fish were carrying embryos. They originally thought the fish laid their eggs before fertilization.

"Once we found embryos in this group, we knew they had internal fertilization. But how the hell are they doing it?" said John Long, the head of sciences at the Museum Victoria in Melbourne who wrote a paper on the discovery that appeared in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature.

The answer came when the scientists re-examined the pelvis of the male placoderm, armed with the new information about fertilization. After looking at specimens at the Natural History Museum in London and the Museum Victoria, they realized the pelvis had a fin not seen on the female fish, and surmised it was likely used to grip its mate during fertilization, much as sharks do.

"These fish have an extra large bone that attaches to the pelvic bone," he said. "It had been overlooked and hadn't been identified. So in a nutshell, we have reinterpreted the structure of the pelvic bone in these placoderms to show they had a method for copulation."

Zerina Johanson, a paleontologist at the Natural History Museum who also took part in the study along with the University of Western Australia's Kate Trinajstic, said findings of internal fertilization showed that "sex started a lot sooner than we thought."

"We expected these early fishes would show a more primitive type of reproduction, where sperm and eggs combine in the water and embryos develop outside fish," Johanson said in a statement.

Per Ahlberg, a professor of evolutionary organismal biology at Uppsala University in Sweden who did not take part in the study, said the discovery "may prove to have far-reaching implications for our understanding of early vertebrate evolution."

"Every once in a while, a discovery comes along that puts our biological understanding of some extinct group of organism on much firmer footing," Ahlberg wrote in Nature. "Long and colleagues present such a discovery."

Long first became enamored with the reproductive skills of this ancient fish last year, when his team identified the first placoderm containing embryos at the Gogo dig site in Western Australia.

The 380 million year old fossils were hailed as one of the most important discoveries in Australia and the fossil represents the world's oldest known vertebrate mother. The site, which Long has worked since 1986, is believed to have once been the home of an ancient tropical reef that would have rivaled the Great Barrier Reef.

Researchers hope to use the fossils to better understand where placoderms fit into the evolutionary history of jawed vertebrates and determine whether they are more closely linked to sharks and rays or other boney fish like tuna and swordfish.
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Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature

***This comes as no surprize to me after watching black mollies in a friend's aquarium years ago. Copulation is timeless.
 
Just one more reason not to drink water...fish have been having sex in it for a really long time. :cool:
 
Well, if we truly are descended from fishes, then my favorite saying still stands, "We come from fuckers."
 
Just one more reason not to drink water...fish have been having sex in it for a really long time. :cool:

Actually it's worse when they do it the old-fashioned fish way - with the female laying unfertilised eggs and the male following along and spunking all over them. Just imagine all that fish spunk in your glass of water. :D

Not much fun for the fishes either: the lass doesn't get any jollies at all, and the lad just basically gets to wank over the eggs. :(

Proper sex is definitely an evolutionary advancement.
 
We may live in the hills, but we aren't silly enough to drink the water in the creeks and rivers. And it isn't the fish we are worried about, it is the aged sewage systems upriver and on the water's edge that present a real problem. Human waste.
 
I hope we never stop fucking. I will never forget Jane Fonda in Barbarella, when she takes the pill to have sex with David Hemmings. Priceless, but I prefer the orgasmatron of Duran Duran.
 
I hope we never stop fucking. I will never forget Jane Fonda in Barbarella, when she takes the pill to have sex with David Hemmings. Priceless, but I prefer the orgasmatron of Duran Duran.

Wasn't the orgasmatron in Woody Allen's Sleeper, or was that something different?
 
Durand Durand and his Excessive Machine that could pleasure a woman to death. That is correct. My mind is a sieve.
 
Back to sex and fish. This article makes me wonder if the pregnant female fishy was first, before the laying eggs kind of female.
 
Back to sex and fish. This article makes me wonder if the pregnant female fishy was first, before the laying eggs kind of female.

Good question. The ovoviviparous fish, like sharks and rays, produce offspring with a better chance of survival because they're more developed. However, because the young are larger, they have a low production rate. (That's why I refuse to eat shark or billfish.) Oviparous fish have young in huge numbers but have a low survival rate because the vast majority of the young end up as other fishes food. Both strategies work, or did until people came along with industrial fishing methods.
 
If there was fish sex 200 million years ago, then there must have been fish porn... "Ooh! Give me your great big pelvic bone, Slimy." :D
 
Fish are not really so slimy as scaly and that doesn't sound so good.

Hey, I'm sure it did to the fish. :D

I gathered from the article those fish were armor plated, so sex must have been a chore. Maybe that pelvic bone had a screwdriver tip to unfasten a plate. ;)
 
Well there you have it. I have never fished in the ocean although I have eaten fish that came from the ocean, especially salmon, which a both a fresh water and a saltwater fish. They used to run all the way up the Sacramento River to where I live. the Indians caught and smoked them the traditional way. They still do that at the annual Stillwater PowWow they have in Redding every year.
 
Hey, I'm sure it did to the fish. :D

I gathered from the article those fish were armor plated, so sex must have been a chore. Maybe that pelvic bone had a screwdriver tip to unfasten a plate. ;)

Hey, I've had sex in full armor. Not so bad when the codpiece unhinges.

Not very conducive to lying down, though. And the creaking, clattering, and squeaking gets distracting.

*snerk*

Just thought of something: "Codpiece." Coincidence? I think not . . . .
 
Hey, I've had sex in full armor. Not so bad when the codpiece unhinges.

Not very conducive to lying down, though. And the creaking, clattering, and squeaking gets distracting.

*snerk*

Just thought of something: "Codpiece." Coincidence? I think not . . . .

I'd recommend WD-40 next time you try an armored hump...of course the squeaking may have been your partner...that plating might have been cold on her ass. :D
 
I'd recommend WD-40 next time you try an armored hump...of course the squeaking may have been your partner...that plating might have been cold on her ass. :D

Well, I thought the petticoat was a good enough bumper . . . .
 
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