Students getting kicked out of school for wearing "Homosexuality is a sin"...

[Le Jacquelope]

Students getting kicked out of school for wearing "Homosexuality is a sin"...

As an advocate of gay rights I'd defend these people, because it's about freedom of speech.

The shirts never said "those nappy headed fags"...

http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_113203250.html

Anti-Gay T-Shirts Cause Uproar At Sacto School

John Lobertini
Reporting

(CBS 5) SACRAMENTO The debate over free speech and religion was heard in front of Rio Linda High School near Sacramento on Monday.

Hundreds of demonstrators gathered to show support for four students who were suspended last week for wearing t-shirts with bible verses and anti-sodomy messages.

School officials said it was the title on the shirts reading, "homosexuality is a sin," that prompted them to take action.

"The statement that's in the t-shirt could rise to the level of hate speech," said Jacques Whitfield, legal counsel for the Grant Joint Union High School District. "There is a prejudice and a distinct prejudice against those of our students who are homosexual or lesbian."

The shirts were considered a disruption on campus, even though fellow students are allowed to wear gay pride apparel. The incident prompted Monday's protest, in which demonstrators claimed their free speech rights were being violated by the school.

"It’s just kind of cool and encouraging to see this many people out here, it kind of lifts you up," said sophomore protester Oleg Manzyuk. "It's only going to get worse against Christians. We're going to get persecuted more and more. But those who stand to the end: God is going to save them."

Two demonstrators were arrested at Monday's protest.

 

[Redatlit]

Not in a high school. Most schools prohibit controversial or inflammatory slogans on T-shirts. It's not a freedom of speech issue. It's about a safe learning environment. Schools have enough trouble keeping the peace and minimizing distractions without having to deal with the repercussions of controversial slogans on clothing. It's not inconsistent. Kids in most schools can't wear shirts that glorify drinking, sex, and certainly not any kind of real or perceived bigotry.

There's a big difference between a gay pride shirt and an anti-gay shirt. They are not analogous.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Not in a high school. Most schools prohibit controversial or inflammatory slogans on T-shirts. It's not a freedom of speech issue. It's about a safe learning environment. Schools have enough trouble keeping the peace and minimizing distractions without having to deal with the repercussions of controversial slogans on clothing. It's not inconsistent. Kids in most schools can't wear shirts that glorify drinking, sex, and certainly not any kind of real or perceived bigotry.

There's a big difference between a gay pride shirt and an anti-gay shirt. They are not analogous.

Except that they could get around that by quoting the first part of the book of Romans... which says the exact same thing... and which would trigger a solidly grounded first amendment fight on the grounds of religious freedom.

 

[Redatlit]

Except that they could get around that by quoting the first part of the book of Romans... which says the exact same thing... and which would trigger a solidly grounded first amendment fight on the grounds of religious freedom.

Well, if that's the case than I guess if they want to express themselves in a hateful manner they should do that, and then fight it out in the courts. I hope none of those kids or their families hold the school administration responsible if they are opening a Pandora's Box of violence. There's a reason to stifle that sort of protest in the public schools.

 

[Never]

I think the school overstepped its bounds. Neither beliefs nor the expression of those beliefs should be limited to whatever is popular.

 

[Redatlit]

I think the school overstepped its bounds. Neither beliefs nor the expression of those beliefs should be limited to whatever is popular.

Suspensions seem steep, but most schools just make them change their shirts. I assume these kids were probably asked to change them and refused. That sort of slogan policy is very common in public schools. I'd be curious to find out if the parents of the kids who wore the anti-gay shirts are in favor of the schools allowing kids to wear Bud Light and Camel shirts or a shirt with anti-Christian slogans.

 

[Never]

Redatlit,

You're right, an anti-slogan policy is the way many schools handle the issue. However, allowing gay pride t-shirts means allowing t-shirts that have other political or social messages.

I have no problem with a school limiting how a message is expressed as long as it's consistent and there is room for that expression. I would understand the problem if the shirt said "God hates fags," as that's using a disparaging term. I'd understand if they were stopping students in the hallway by passing out brochures, if they were disrupting class with their comments, or if they were harassing other students. I can think of no less hostile way of conveying that particular belief than having on a 'Homosexuality is a sin' shirt.

 

[KRCummings]

High school students do not have the same rights as adults so if the school says no then that's the way it is. Doesn't make it right and I personally think if they say no to one then they should to the other.

 

[Redatlit]

High school students do not have the same rights as adults so if the school says no then that's the way it is. Doesn't make it right and I personally think if they say no to one then they should to the other.

I can see that. However, I think the difference is that one is a positive message the other is a negative message, and an insult. It seems the school was most concerned about hate speech rather than political or religious ideology.

 

[KRCummings]

I can see that. However, I think the difference is that one is a positive message the other is a negative message, and an insult. It seems the school was most concerned about hate speech rather than political or religious ideology.

In a high school gay pride shirts could quite easily be considered antagonistic. Neither one should be allowed if they are truly concerned but I'm not sure they really are.

 

[Ally C]

How about if they dropped the offending line and left in the bible verses? As for being persecuted, it's not as if they (the Christians) are being thrown to the lions.

If the religious kids are correct in their beliefs then they'll spend eternity in the kingdom of heaven while those they are protesting against will be in hell. Why can't they live out their mortal existence happy in this knowledge? You know, turn the other cheek (not a pun), and all that jazz ...

 

[KRCummings]

How about if they dropped the offending line and left in the bible verses? As for being persecuted, it's not as if they (the Christians) are being thrown to the lions.

If the religious kids are correct in their beliefs then they'll spend eternity in the kingdom of heaven while those they are protesting against will be in hell. Why can't they live out their mortal existence happy in this knowledge? You know, turn the other cheek (not a pun), and all that jazz ...

Because that's not what Christianity is supposed to be about.

 

[Redatlit]

In a high school gay pride shirts could quite easily be considered antagonistic. Neither one should be allowed if they are truly concerned but I'm not sure they really are.

Yes, they could be considered antagonistic. They shouldn't be, but they could. The schools might be a little afraid to go down that road for fear of being labeled bigots and homophobes. School boards and administrations are basically damned no matter what they do when it concerns certain issues. This is one of those issues.

 

[KRCummings]

Yes, they could be considered antagonistic. They shouldn't be, but they could. The schools might be a little afraid to go down that road for fear of being labeled bigots and homophobes. School boards and administrations are basically damned no matter what they do when it concerns certain issues. This is one of those issues.

Yeah, they aren't going to win no matter what.
Especially now that it's a real issue. Had they done something quietly when the first religous or gay pride shirt showed up they might have gotten away with it but it's too late now.

 

[RcyMtnGrl]

Uniforms.

I don't agree with the sentiment of the shirt, but I think that if the kids were otherwise respecting the school and it's students, and the school is already permitting students to wear clothing supporting homosexuality, than they really shouldn't have gotten involved. In the grand scheme of all the things the shirts could have said, 'Homosexuality is a Sin' is pretty minor. Maybe change it to 'My religion says Homosexuality is a Sin'. It just shows those students for the closeminded individuals they are.

It should be an all or nothing thing. They allow freedom of expression through clothing, or they don't. But it would be a flood gate.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Gay pride T-shirts simply say 'im Gay and Happy about it'.
it would be like Christian groups wearing 'I Love jesus' t-shirts.

wearing a shirt that says 'Homosexuality is a Sin' would be like a homosexual wearing a T-shirt saying 'Where is your God now?'

 

[KRCummings]

Uniforms.

I don't agree with the sentiment of the shirt, but I think that if the kids were otherwise respecting the school and it's students, and the school is already permitting students to wear clothing supporting homosexuality, than they really shouldn't have gotten involved. In the grand scheme of all the things the shirts could have said, 'Homosexuality is a Sin' is pretty minor. Maybe change it to 'My religion says Homosexuality is a Sin'. It just shows those students for the closeminded individuals they are.

It should be an all or nothing thing. They allow freedom of expression through clothing, or they don't. But it would be a flood gate.

I'm all for uniforms. I know it's not a really popular idea but I feel like there is too much emphasis in high school on what style and brand of clothes a kid wears.
I spend a fortune on my 12 year old and she's just in 7th grade.

 

[KRCummings]

Gay pride T-shirts simply say 'im Gay and Happy about it'.
it would be like Christian groups wearing 'I Love jesus' t-shirts.

wearing a shirt that says 'Homosexuality is a Sin' would be like a homosexual wearing a T-shirt saying 'Where is your God now?'

In high school wearing a shirt that says "I'm gay" is the same as wearing one that says "please kick my ass now."

 

[Pyro Paul]

In high school wearing a shirt that says "I'm gay" is the same as wearing one that says "please kick my ass now."

there where a lot of things you could wear during high school which boiled down to a shirt saying "Kick my ass, please"... in general, anything that was Geeky, religious, Or gay.

 

[KRCummings]

there where a lot of things you could wear during high school which boiled down to a shirt saying "Kick my ass, please"... in general, anything that was Geeky, religious, Or gay.

That's my point. Considering where they are, one is as bad as the other.

 

[RcyMtnGrl]

I'm all for uniforms. I know it's not a really popular idea but I feel like there is too much emphasis in high school on what style and brand of clothes a kid wears.
I spend a fortune on my 12 year old and she's just in 7th grade.

It is just begining with my 7yr old son. He won't wear certain jeans b/c they aren't cool, needs certain brands of shoes. I figured I was home free from the 'I can't wear that, it isn't cool enough' syndrome when I had sons. I figured wrong.

 

[Redatlit]

It is just begining with my 7yr old son. He won't wear certain jeans b/c they aren't cool, needs certain brands of shoes. I figured I was home free from the 'I can't wear that, it isn't cool enough' syndrome when I had sons. I figured wrong.

My son was worse than my daughter. He still is. Good luck.

 

[RcyMtnGrl]

That's my point. Considering where they are, one is as bad as the other.

Exactly. One is no more appropriate to a school environment than the other is. No one is stifling their freedom of speech, they would be welcome to wear the shirt to the movies, or the mall. However in those places they would face the scrutiny of the general population.

 

[RcyMtnGrl]

My son was worse than my daughter. He still is. Good luck.

Great. And I have two boys. Shoot me now.

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Not in a high school. Most schools prohibit controversial or inflammatory slogans on T-shirts. It's not a freedom of speech issue. It's about a safe learning environment. Schools have enough trouble keeping the peace and minimizing distractions without having to deal with the repercussions of controversial slogans on clothing. It's not inconsistent. Kids in most schools can't wear shirts that glorify drinking, sex, and certainly not any kind of real or perceived bigotry.

There's a big difference between a gay pride shirt and an anti-gay shirt. They are not analogous.

Well kids have to read "it's a sin to kill a mockingbird" that have the word sin in it.

Free speach is free speach. If you feel the being gay is a sin there shout it from the higest mountain.

I doubt that any kid would have the guts to wear that in my kids old school. They would get shit on by well over half the kids in the school.