Stuck in the middle

[StillStunned]

Does anyone else feel like this? We authors are caught between "the Site" and "the Reader".

On the one hand we're left clueless about some of LitE's policies and algorithms: what will fly and what won't for example, or why stories are flagged as AI-generated, or how long it will take for a new story to be published. (Although for the record I don't think I've ever fallen foul of the rules. But I see plenty of posts by people who have, and who have no idea what they did wrong.)

On the other, we're constantly guessing what readers want, what they don't want, why some stories soar like eagles while others - "better" ones sometimes - crawl like worms. Why readers drop 1s left, right and centre, even when they could have known going in what the story was going to be. That kind of thing.

I know there's not much anyone can do, and the only sensible course of action is to just write what pleases us. But sometimes it's just frustrating, like we're floundering between two unknown forces, trying to satisfy both without knowing from one moment to the next what the rules are.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Does anyone else feel like this? We authors are caught between "the Site" and "the Reader".

On the other, we're constantly guessing what readers want, what they don't want, why some stories soar like eagles while others - "better" ones sometimes - crawl like worms. Why readers drop 1s left, right and centre, even when they could have known going in what the story was going to be. That kind of thing.

Not really. I'm content that I've got a good understanding of the policy rules (having tested the lines on one story, very early on); and I don't worry about "what readers might think".

I think you have to have confidence in your own abilities, write and improve as best you can, and treat a good reader reception as a bonus. I don't think it's ever possible to figure out "what readers want" in such a way that you could actually cater for it.

 

[Bamagan]

Life writ small, I'd say. The struggle to find some kind of happiness with the people who like us for who we are while avoiding as much ire as possible from the forces trying to keep some kind of order and separation between people with incompatible views to try and give everyone a chance to find those little happy spots.

 

[KachinaDoll]

I've never found keeping to the rules a problem though the 'everyone's a virgin until they're eighteen' rule is a little illogical but I don't own the site. As for writing, I just write what gives me enjoyment which pretty much coincides with what I like to read. I'm not going to start writing BDSM or non-consent even if that is what people want.

 

[FeralSmile]

I don't feel that way. The rules of this site are easy enough to learn and I don't struggle to write pieces that conform. My challenge is to find things I want to write and publish here, then manifest them - no more, no less. To find that idea, that kernel, that needs expressing, and then to put it into words and polish them and make it all hot and engaging and interesting; that's challenging. How long until a piece is published, and how it'll be ranked, aren't really within my control, so I focus on what is. I'm not especially concerned with AI-filtering as my natural style tends not to look much like AI-produced works, for better or for worse.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't feel this way.

I don't feel that the site's content rules are as illogical or capriciously applied as some people seem to think they are. In the past they were annoyingly opaque, but the site has taken steps to clarify the rules and to post explanations in the forums.

I don't worry at all about what readers want. If you want to know what readers like, read stories and look at the scores. Read articles authored by long-time experienced authors with a good feel for what the readers like.

There is a mountain of data out there for an author to review if you want to take some time to review it. But the best course is to stay true to your own muse, have fun writing and publishing the stories, and not sweat what the readers will think.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Well, I did slip up this week. I forgot that, while on Lit it's perfectly allowable to fuck your own mother, if you have two grown women (thirties with their own children) and one calls the other one 'mummy' then you get your story rejected. In fairness, I did tag the thing 'age-play' without thinking, so I've only myself to blame.

Apart from that, as other's have said, the rules aren't that opaque, especially if you hang out on AH for any length of time.

Regarding readers, yeah, it can take a while to work out what flies where and when you're going to have to take an L instead of a H. It's all part of the fun though.

 

[lovecraft68]

I write what I want and how the readers react, they react. The hope is it does well, but if some readers react negatively, that's fine. Everything is subjective so I've stopped wondering if people see the story as good or not because one person can hate it, the next love it. Best to just write the intended story and not try to play up to a fickle group who consumes free product of which a very small percentage has the courtesy to vote and even less comment.

As for the rules, as I have no desire to write NC material and don't feel the need to try and push underage sex in anyway into my work I've rarely had an issue

Ten years ago I had a published story kicked back for violence, and mostly because it was violence against men because men whine and women don't. I pulled the five part series because I refused to change anything. Now I make money on it. I recently had a mystifying underage rejection, and when I re-submiited pasted three sentences from the story in the notes field which clearly referenced both characters were 18 and it went through.

But seeing I've been posting here 13 years two instances isn't much, but I get your point based on seeing other people's posts.

The site should get volunteers to help screen the large amount of stories here, but what fun would that be?

 

[SimonDoom]

I had a story rejected once, for bestiality, of all things. It was my story Penis Fish, which was about an alien invasion where the aliens looked like Innkeeper worms, a type of worm that looks much like a human phallus. I had to send a note to Laurel explaining that the "Penis Fish" in my story were not actually terrestrial (or marine, I suppose) creatures but aliens from another planet. She accepted the explanation and the story was published.

My takeaway was that this was a good example of how a cursory read of a story could understandably result in rejection, but when the issue was explained to her she accepted it. I sense that some people get frustrated because they see a story rejected, don't take enough time to think about why, and then don't take the time to state their case politely but clearly to Laurel. Politeness can go a long way to getting things done.

 

[samhasstories]

I haven't had any issues yet with site policy, but I don't think my stories are in much danger unless something gets misunderstood. Nothin but consenting adults for me.

As for readers, there are a lot of readers in the world. The only ones I'm interested in pleasing are the ones who want to read what I want to write. Which is convenient.

 

[Tomh1966]

Between the site and me... Not really. I am just EXTREMELY careful that any minors in my stories are NOWHERE near anything erotic. I had a 4 year old in one story and she is separated from anything sexual by 500 miles and 14 YEARS of time. The scene with the four year old is purposely in public in a completely zero sexual situation and no one is doing anything naked and sexual. I avoid certain categories. Non Con is one and BDSM is another. Yeah, Im probably wrong but non con seems to be too rape-ish but somehow women enjoy it? er uh no. I get that reluctance is part of that category but it seems to be more along the lines of rape...ish. Shudder.

BDSM I just dont understand so... shrug. People do what they want to do and I realize that branding and torture are a minority part of that world but... shudder.

The categories in Lit are kind of messed up (IE cuck vs anti cuck in loving wives) but they do in general give enough guidance for people to avoid stories they are not comfortable with.

I'm fine with readers. My first story had some nice insults in the comments. Yeah, I like the little red H but know I will probably not get one in Loving Wives... yet I write stories there. I just know I will get 1 bombed and some fun drive-by insults from anons.

That is also why I write in other categories so I get fewer 'you suck' posts and the occasional little red H. It's fun and I have actually received a bit of fan mail. Not a lot and nothing long, just 'I loved your story.' yeah, made my day and that is all the pay I receive here.

Overall I enjoy writing and it helps me escape the real world.

 

[Comshaw]

Comshaw

 

[MrPixel]

No middle here. I try to keep within the guidelines, but otherwise I write for my own tastes, not anybody else's. If others enjoy what I publish, fantastic, but if not, I'm not offended if they click out.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I don't find the readers to be much of an unknown. I chose to write some relatively niche stuff and I was never that bothered with catching a wide array of readers, although I was bothered with being read and getting feedback from those who are my target audience. When you are targeting a minority, thus limiting yourself from the start, small things matter, so yeah, I am a bit bothered by those things that influence the number of views and the number of comments. All that being said, I can't say that I have ever been surprised by readers that much, except maybe with the lack of feedback in general, which is something that plagues most writers here. Readers praise what they like and flame what they don't like and that is perfectly predictable and fine for me.

On the other hand, I was often puzzled not by Lit's policies, which are pretty clear on their own, but by their application in general. The other very puzzling thing is the approach website admins have towards the authors. One would think that people who provide content for the website would be more appreciated in general. I find the lack of communication puzzling, maybe even borderline offensive, but it is what it is, I suppose.

As with everything else in life, quality usually comes when there is proper competition. If there were other websites that could compete with Lit for readers and authors, I believe Lit would have been a much better place. It is hardly bad as it is, but there is nothing wrong with striving for something better. Sadly, there is no website that comes close to Lit in the sense of the sheer number of stories and the number of visitors, and as long as this fact remains unchanged, Lit will stay exactly the same, with all of its good and bad sides.

 

[Euphony]

and who have no idea what they did wrong.)

Yeah, about that. There's a large subset of complaining authors who refuse to acknowledge how their story fairly clearly runs afoul of guidelines. Then, if consensus is the author was correctly rejected, comes the bargaining stage where the author author argues some riff on "it's too complicated for you to understand" or " I'm the author so only I can weigh in on intent. " (even when it reads as torture porn. Even if not your original intent, the final product is, and reads, as it is.)

Writing is inherently egotistical to a degree but some simply overdo it. When you always know better than your readers, when you are so sure of you ability to always say what you mean to say that self-reflection isn't a regular part of your process, where is the path to getting better?

On the other, we're constantly guessing what readers want, what they don't want, why some stories soar like eagles while others - "better" ones sometimes - crawl like worms. Why readers drop 1s left, right and centre, even when they could have known going in what the story was going to be. That kind of thing.

Isn't that basically the nature of art? There are certain readability markers that help but what will take hold of the collective conscious or not is fairly random. Great authors struggled to make basic ends meet and died penniless. Hollywood and publishing operate on a system where the few hit "investments" they make need to pay for all the considered, measured, but still "lottery ticket" projects that for some unknown reason just don't make it.

Art is not for the faint of heart.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I am a bit stuck by I write for me and what the reader wants either aligns with my likes or wants or doesn't. Nothing I can do about that.

 

[StillStunned]

Great authors struggled to make basic ends meet and died penniless.

I've been spending too much time on LitE. I read this as "penisless".

 

[MrPixel]

I've been spending too much time on LitE. I read this as "penisless".

And there we have our tie-in with the chatter in another thread about vagina dentata.

 

[Bramblethorn]

As with everything else in life, quality usually comes when there is proper competition. If there were other websites that could compete with Lit for readers and authors, I believe Lit would have been a much better place. It is hardly bad as it is, but there is nothing wrong with striving for something better. Sadly, there is no website that comes close to Lit in the sense of the sheer number of stories and the number of visitors, and as long as this fact remains unchanged, Lit will stay exactly the same, with all of its good and bad sides.

Not going to promote rival sites here, but there's another story site I'm on that has almost two million explicit stories (vs. Lit's ~500k), and gets around fifty million visitors a day.

It's not an exact substitute in terms of content and focus, but it's certainly a significant competitor.

 

[Paul_Chance]

No, I can't say I feel that way. Rules are simply rules. If you want to write and publish a story outside the rules, go for it - just find a site that allows it.

As for the readers, some people enjoy what I write (and tell me so), others don't like it (and tell me so). More power to both kinds of people. No reason not to be picky in what you consume.

I follow the adage of "write for yourself". To me, it doesn't mean go self-indulgent and ignore your readers completely, it means tell the stories you want to tell and trust that the audience will find you.

I do enjoy some of the more crazy author (or aspiring author) meltdowns that grace these pages, but that enjoyment is in a sort of "get the popcorn honey, the neighbors are at it again" way.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

That website has insane traffic indeed, but I was under the impression that most of its traffic is due to the non-erotic fandom content? Are there any actual numbers that show how many people read the explicit content? Does it make sense to post the non-fandom stories in the sense of the number of people who read them?

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Not going to promote rival sites here, but there's another story site I'm on that has almost two million explicit stories (vs. Lit's ~500k), and gets around fifty million visitors a day.

It's not an exact substitute in terms of content and focus, but it's certainly a significant competitor.

Tell me, I need another erotica site.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Meh, the site is what it is, was, and will be. Might not always work for us, but it works for Laurel & Manu, and we gotta work for the site. I've been here almost as long as LC68 and I've got it figured out. Only had three rejections, my time here. If the readers don't like what I write; then that's their own personal problem to reflect on. I'm going to succeed or fail on my own merit, not chasing clout.

 

[Emilymcplugger]

The only rule I fall foul of is my own awful spelling and convoluted sentence structure.

I got over 1-Bomber bastards a long time ago.

Red H’s? They’re for everyone else to worry about. Now I’ve scored with CARRY ON CRUISING I’ve found my audience and I’m a pretty happy chappy.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Not at all. I follow the rules and what I like and what the readers seem to like are pretty closely aligned. No worries here.